Online argument poll -- Middlebury

[LaxDadMax]

My let's start an online argument post of the quarter.

Given another runaway Middlebury championship this year and a dynasty with no plans to slow down.

Where would Middlebury have finished in the following conferences?

- A-Sun
- Atlantic 10
- Big East
- Patriot League

[spidey44]

top 3 in all 4.

[LaxDadMax]

My let's start an online argument post of the quarter.

Given another runaway Middlebury championship this year and a dynasty with no plans to slow down.

Where would Middlebury have finished in the following conferences?

- A-Sun
- Atlantic 10
- Big East
- Patriot League

My Take

- They win the A-Sun and most games aren't competitive
- A-10, I think they are similar levels to Davidson so 3rd or 4th
- Big East really sucked this year. Definitely no worse than 3rd and I think their game against Georgetown would be a toss up
- Patriot League-- Nowhere close to Navy or Loyola ; Army is better than them, though I am not sure by how much. The rest of the league was just a muddled mess. I think they are probably at Lehigh and Holy Cross' level, maybe a little better, so I'd say 4th or 5th.

[LaxDadMax]

top 3 in all 4.

Top 3 in Patriot Leagye? I am high on Middlebury, but think beating Army would be a challenge.

[Relax77]

top 3 in all 4.

Top 3 in Patriot Leagye? I am high on Middlebury, but think beating Army would be a challenge.

Think they could be ahead of Army. Lehigh beat Army and Lehigh was terrible. I think win the ASUN easy and 3rd on the others.

[610Lax]

Good topic!

I think they finish 4-6 in each conference.

People are grossly underestimating A-Sun. Queens and Lindenwood, 2 traditional D2 powers made the move to that conference and were .500 or less with some upgraded player quality on their rosters.

There’s something to be said for playing teams that are as good as you or better every week, as they would playing a D1 schedule. If Middlebury shows up with their C game in D3, they still win in most cases. Showing up with a B game is a loss for them vs most D1 teams.

[BigRedChant]

top 3 in all 4.

So what you are saying, is that they would be one of the top 4 teams in EVERY conference except the Big 10 and ACC and the 2024 version of the Ivy.

Congrats to the D3 champs - but I’m not sure why we need to turn this into negatively commenting on a lot of hard working D1 young women who are working their butts off in a D1 schedule.

if this is actually true, I would imagine some D1 schools with $ are about to go shopping for Middlebury players this summer.

[VAMomGlax2019]

I’ll add a slight twist to the original question. Who would win between the D2 champion,Tampa, and Middlebury?

[Justoldlaxdad]

Tampa; too athletic across entire field; too fast; put Middlebury on field with these athletes and it would wear them down

[njbill]

When Final Four weekend was at PPL Park a few years back, at least one year they played the D3 final right before the D1 final. I watched both games. While the skill levels between the D3 and D1 teams were somewhat comparable (certainly not worlds apart), there was a huge difference in foot speed.

I see virtually all of the top high school players in New Jersey each year. Very, very few go D3. In fact, I can only think of one in the past five or so years. And she went to a very high academic school.

[forthelaxofit]

top 3 in all 4.

So what you are saying, is that they would be one of the top 4 teams in EVERY conference except the Big 10 and ACC and the 2024 version of the Ivy.

Congrats to the D3 champs - but I’m not sure why we need to turn this into negatively commenting on a lot of hard working D1 young women who are working their butts off in a D1 schedule.

if this is actually true, I would imagine some D1 schools with $ are about to go shopping for Middlebury players this summer.

I agree with you, seems like a negative twist to me as well. Jane Early, 2X D3 player of the year, had a good year at Denver with 32 points in 20 games. The 32 points were 7th on the team – not dominant in anyway, but a good year. But much different than 100+ points she had in D3. I have no idea what that would mean for a 16-18 player (starter + subs) player transition to a D1 schedule, but don’t understand why we can’t enjoy Middlebury and D3 for what it is without the negative spin to a bunch of hard working players and D1 teams.

[VAMomGlax2019]

Tampa; too athletic across entire field; too fast; put Middlebury on field with these athletes and it would wear them down

I have no reason to suggest this statement is not true, but if it holds then I’d point to the Tampa/USF game this past fall as a small glimpse of how Middlebury would do in D1. USF, with a group of mainly freshman, beat Tampa in a fall game. If a brand new D1 program that had only practiced together for a few weeks can beat the team that won the D2 championship that is not encouraging for how Middlebury would fair in D1.

[LaxPundit07]

I've been a head coach of a new Division 1 program in a new conference for women's lacrosse. Albeit 10-15 years ago. Nontheless, I remember thinking that first season....Gettysburg would have wiped the floor with everyone in that conference. Sometimes you have to own it. Ignore the divisional bias and admit the truth.

[forthelaxofit]

I've been a head coach of a new Division 1 program in a new conference for women's lacrosse. Albeit 10-15 years ago. Nontheless, I remember thinking that first season....Gettysburg would have wiped the floor with everyone in that conference. Sometimes you have to own it. Ignore the divisional bias and admit the truth.

Well I guess another D3 100 point scorer will get the chance to “own it” again next year when Maddie Montgomery plays for Denver. Granted not a Middlebury player like Early before her, but another opportunity to see how an Elite D3 field player, First Team All-American, Tewaaraton Watch List and Super Senior does at D1.

[LaxPundit07]

I've been a head coach of a new Division 1 program in a new conference for women's lacrosse. Albeit 10-15 years ago. Nontheless, I remember thinking that first season....Gettysburg would have wiped the floor with everyone in that conference. Sometimes you have to own it. Ignore the divisional bias and admit the truth.

Well I guess another D3 100 point scorer will get the chance to “own it” again next year when Maddie Montgomery plays for Denver. Granted not a Middlebury player like Early before her, but another opportunity to see how an Elite D3 field player, First Team All-American, Tewaaraton Watch List and Super Senior does at D1.

My guess is she will be great!

[Deacon022]

Tampa; too athletic across entire field; too fast; put Middlebury on field with these athletes and it would wear them down

I have no reason to suggest this statement is not true, but if it holds then I’d point to the Tampa/USF game this past fall as a small glimpse of how Middlebury would do in D1. USF, with a group of mainly freshman, beat Tampa in a fall game. If a brand new D1 program that had only practiced together for a few weeks can beat the team that won the D2 championship that is not encouraging for how Middlebury would fair in D1.

How Tampa played the last month and a half compared to how they played the first two months it’s not even in the same stratosphere

[LaxDadMax]

top 3 in all 4.

So what you are saying, is that they would be one of the top 4 teams in EVERY conference except the Big 10 and ACC and the 2024 version of the Ivy.

Congrats to the D3 champs - but I’m not sure why we need to turn this into negatively commenting on a lot of hard working D1 young women who are working their butts off in a D1 schedule.

if this is actually true, I would imagine some D1 schools with $ are about to go shopping for Middlebury players this summer.

I agree with you, seems like a negative twist to me as well. Jane Early, 2X D3 player of the year, had a good year at Denver with 32 points in 20 games. The 32 points were 7th on the team – not dominant in anyway, but a good year. But much different than 100+ points she had in D3. I have no idea what that would mean for a 16-18 player (starter + subs) player transition to a D1 schedule, but don’t understand why we can’t enjoy Middlebury and D3 for what it is without the negative spin to a bunch of hard working players and D1 teams.

Actually I think Jane Early supports the strength of MIddlebury.

If she could score 32 points on a top 10, top 15 team like Denver, what could she have done for a typical A-Sun or Patriot League team? Probably at least double

I don't believe Middlebury could compete in any way against a top 15 team. However, I think they could compete against a team in the mid-30s and should be able to beat most team from 50 and below, which is what the poll addresses.

[LaxDadMax]

I’ll add a slight twist to the original question. Who would win between the D2 champion,Tampa, and Middlebury?

I watched Tampa's final four games and a few more from Middlebury over the course of the season.

I think it would be a very competitive game which could go either way. Gun to my head, I would pick Middlebury mainly because they have more options on offense and are better in the cage. I also think they are a bit deeper.

However, I think Tampa's athleticism in midfield could swing the game the other way.

[forthelaxofit]

top 3 in all 4.

So what you are saying, is that they would be one of the top 4 teams in EVERY conference except the Big 10 and ACC and the 2024 version of the Ivy.

Congrats to the D3 champs - but I’m not sure why we need to turn this into negatively commenting on a lot of hard working D1 young women who are working their butts off in a D1 schedule.

if this is actually true, I would imagine some D1 schools with $ are about to go shopping for Middlebury players this summer.

I agree with you, seems like a negative twist to me as well. Jane Early, 2X D3 player of the year, had a good year at Denver with 32 points in 20 games. The 32 points were 7th on the team – not dominant in anyway, but a good year. But much different than 100+ points she had in D3. I have no idea what that would mean for a 16-18 player (starter + subs) player transition to a D1 schedule, but don’t understand why we can’t enjoy Middlebury and D3 for what it is without the negative spin to a bunch of hard working players and D1 teams.

Actually I think Jane Early supports the strength of MIddlebury.

If she could score 32 points on a top 10, top 15 team like Denver, what could she have done for a typical A-Sun or Patriot League team? Probably at least double

I don't believe Middlebury could compete in any way against a top 15 team. However, I think they could compete against a team in the mid-30s and should be able to beat most team from 50 and below, which is what the poll addresses.

I have no doubt there are strong D3 players that would have an impact in D1. I said I thought Early had a good season, but not dominant. I don’t have D1 coach experience, I hit the ceiling with youth but my uneducated opinion is games are often won and lost not with the top 3-5 players on each team, but like players 7-16. The weakest link theory and how it takes a team to win. You mention teams 50 and below. Georgetown 64 RPI and Villanova 67. In 3 games versus those 2 teams, her combined stat line 3 G, 0 A, 12 shots. She was by far the best player in D3 for 2 years, but you still need 16 to win a game. You believe they could beat most teams 50 and below, I think that is overly ambitious. We will have to agree to disagree.

[RollTheCrease]

Tampa; too athletic across entire field; too fast; put Middlebury on field with these athletes and it would wear them down

I have no reason to suggest this statement is not true, but if it holds then I’d point to the Tampa/USF game this past fall as a small glimpse of how Middlebury would do in D1. USF, with a group of mainly freshman, beat Tampa in a fall game. If a brand new D1 program that had only practiced together for a few weeks can beat the team that won the D2 championship that is not encouraging for how Middlebury would fair in D1.

How Tampa played the last month and a half compared to how they played the first two months it’s not even in the same stratosphere

I watched the Tampa vs USF game. I don’t recall the final score, but it was one of those games that was never in doubt. USF controlled the game from start to finish. It is how you finish that matters. Congrats to Tampa on their championship, but the fact still remains even when USF went down to their 3rd and 4th string players they still controlled the game. The original question was how would Middlebury fair against D1. It sounds like some on the board feel Tampa and Middlebury would be a close game. Thus, the comparison one used between Tampa/USF. If a new D1 program that played their entire bench of mostly freshman was able to control their game against Tampa I’d be hard pressed to think they or Middlebury would beat many D1 programs. Maybe the bottom third, but that is not great lacrosse at the D1 level. Certainly, there could be upsets of higher ranked D1 teams, but consistently beating D1 programs would not happen. I do agree, individual D2/3 players can be successful at the D1 level and the difference between the best teams are players 6-17.