Top 25 for 2024

[Laxxal22]

This may devolve into petty arguments but I figured it'd be good to have a thread dedicated to the national polls as opposed to this getting discussed on indiviual league/state threads.

Here is the IL preseason poll: https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... -top/62593

What do people think?

A lot of the usual suspects, and as has been pointed out in other spots, very few public school teams.

Holderness at 20 is interesting to me. They've really come on in the past few years, have some guys making an impact for college teams, and have a lot of committed players in the 24 and 25 classes. Unfortunately their schedule is pretty abysmal. League and location, as well as other NEPSAC schools not having a lot of open dates due to their own league obligations, kind of limit of what they can do. At the same time two of their non league games are Austin Prep and Roxbury Latin, which aren't games that will add much regional or national respect.

I'll add other polls (NLF, US Lacrosse, etc.) as I see them pop up.

[Slim]

Good to see Holderness in the mix. They were outstanding in the NE area back in late 70s when Baltimorean teacher-coach John Boynton (Gilman grad and former St. Paul's asst coach) was at the helm. Jeff Thomsen - Middlebury, Craig Boynton - Washington College, Bill and David Slaughter - Delaware, just to name a few.

[Laxxal22]

Thanks for the history lesson!

[LI13]

It's not good for the game that it is essentially becoming prep school centric. It wasn't that long ago that a majority of the top 25 was public schools.

[kramerica.inc]

It's not good for the game that it is essentially becoming prep school centric. It wasn't that long ago that a majority of the top 25 was public schools.

It's odd that IL has not removed the internatonal teams and sports academies that are essentially post-HS prep schools from these rankings.

I guess they include them because they still have college "recruits" on them?

[coda]

It's not good for the game that it is essentially becoming prep school centric. It wasn't that long ago that a majority of the top 25 was public schools.

It's odd that IL has not removed the internatonal teams and sports academies that are essentially post-HS prep schools from these rankings.

I guess they include them because they still have college "recruits" on them?

US Lax does that, but I think it is hard to know which schools actually have post-grad kids on their roster.

[Laxxal22]

US Lax does that, but I think it is hard to know which schools actually have post-grad kids on their roster.

Yes, they don't have schools that accept PGs, but I think it's safe to assume there are 19 year olds on a team unless it's a public school. Even then there's no assurances with parents often waiting an extra year to send boys to kindergarten.

US Lacrosse has released their regional rankings: https://www.usalacrosse.com/magazine/hi ... 0-rankings
No NE West 1 boarding schools, but they do have Brunswick.

[Superlite]

Brunswick, Culver, Lawrenceville, Boys Latin (Yes) all have a lot of repeats (with the first 3 relying heavily on them) which US Lacrosse doesn't seem to have an issue with for rankings....and there are others that I am not sure about. I have to imagine any private day school in a hotbed has a bunch of repeats (Catholics do it in jr high school or freshman year)

US Lax does that, but I think it is hard to know which schools actually have post-grad kids on their roster.

Yes, they don't have schools that accept PGs, but I think it's safe to assume there are 19 year olds on a team unless it's a public school. Even then there's no assurances with parents often waiting an extra year to send boys to kindergarten.

US Lacrosse has released their regional rankings: https://www.usalacrosse.com/magazine/hi ... 0-rankings
No NE West 1 boarding schools, but they do have Brunswick.

[random observer]

Brunswick, Culver, Lawrenceville, Boys Latin (Yes) all have a lot of repeats (with the first 3 relying heavily on them) which US Lacrosse doesn't seem to have an issue with for rankings....and there are others that I am not sure about. I have to imagine any private day school in a hotbed has a bunch of repeats (Catholics do it in jr high school or freshman year)

US Lax does that, but I think it is hard to know which schools actually have post-grad kids on their roster.

Yes, they don't have schools that accept PGs, but I think it's safe to assume there are 19 year olds on a team unless it's a public school. Even then there's no assurances with parents often waiting an extra year to send boys to kindergarten.

US Lacrosse has released their regional rankings: https://www.usalacrosse.com/magazine/hi ... 0-rankings
No NE West 1 boarding schools, but they do have Brunswick.

Chaminade and St. Anthony's don't play the hold back game. If you go to IL and look at their recruits, almost all of them have DOB listed. Every single one of them is on age, and the majority are on the younger side (turning 18 in the spring of their senior year) -- exactly the DOB range that typically repeats a year at the prep schools. Gary Merill is probably younger than most of the 2026s at those schools.

Long story short, the Chaminade/St. A's kids are generally almost a year younger than their prep school counterparts, which makes their dominance all the more impressive.

[Superlite]

Just taking a quick look at St Anthony's on IL I cant find any birthdays for that redic talented class from last year. But I believe you.

Not counting St A's and Chaminade most other catholic high schools repeat a handful of kids in their middle school. This is very different from later on when talent is more apparent and repeating is more planned. And you dont know id repeating is for academic or purely athletic reasons.

Brunswick, Culver, Lawrenceville, Boys Latin (Yes) all have a lot of repeats (with the first 3 relying heavily on them) which US Lacrosse doesn't seem to have an issue with for rankings....and there are others that I am not sure about. I have to imagine any private day school in a hotbed has a bunch of repeats (Catholics do it in jr high school or freshman year)

US Lax does that, but I think it is hard to know which schools actually have post-grad kids on their roster.

Yes, they don't have schools that accept PGs, but I think it's safe to assume there are 19 year olds on a team unless it's a public school. Even then there's no assurances with parents often waiting an extra year to send boys to kindergarten.

US Lacrosse has released their regional rankings: https://www.usalacrosse.com/magazine/hi ... 0-rankings
No NE West 1 boarding schools, but they do have Brunswick.

Chaminade and St. Anthony's don't play the hold back game. If you go to IL and look at their recruits, almost all of them have DOB listed. Every single one of them is on age, and the majority are on the younger side (turning 18 in the spring of their senior year) -- exactly the DOB range that typically repeats a year at the prep schools. Gary Merill is probably younger than most of the 2026s at those schools.

Long story short, the Chaminade/St. A's kids are generally almost a year younger than their prep school counterparts, which makes their dominance all the more impressive.

[pcowlax]

PG or not, repeats or not, the quantity of top level talent on top privates has gotten so extreme it is almost impossible, with 3 or 4 exceptions nationally, for public schools to compete. A St. A, Wick, Salisbury, McD, Lawrenceville will have 15-20 D1 commits between their junior and senior classes. And those are most certainly not commits to Queens or Detroit Mercy, those are mostly all to top 30 schools. Unless you have a 5000 student high school in a lax crazy town, it is almost impossible to approach that. Now, you can win with somewhat lesser talent with good coaching, cohesion and effort so it is not as though some top public would be helpless vs these teams but they would lose the vast majority. It is a shame, I miss Suffolk A and Section 3 and 5 putting teams in the top 25. US Lax provides a bit of more balance but PGs really are only the cherry on top. Random aside from their ranking. ISL does not have PGs, nuts that St. John’s is in there from MA and not one or two ISL teams.

[laxguywm]

Would love to see a list of the Final #1 ranked team from 2000 to 2023. If anyone has this information, please post - thanks.

[Laxxal22]

ISL does not have PGs, nuts that St. John’s is in there from MA and not one or two ISL teams.

My level of annoyance that we still don't have any ISL-Catholic Conference crossover games is at an all time high. SJP has the roster to hang with any team in the ISL this year, and I think they'll be favored by at least a touchdown in all of their MIAA (the Massachusetts version) games.

[random observer]

Would love to see a list of the Final #1 ranked team from 2000 to 2023. If anyone has this information, please post - thanks.

I could only find as back as far as 2006 for Inside Lacrosse's rankings:

2023: Lawrenceville
2022: St. John's (curiously, IL never released an official final poll, but it was undoubtedly them)
2021: Deerfield
2020: void
2019: Culver/Calvert Hall
2018: Ward Melville
2017: Darien/Landon
2016: Hill Academy
2015: Haverford
2014: Boys' Latin
2013: Ward Melville
2012: Garden City
2011: Haverford
2010: West Islip
2009: Gilman
2008: Brother Rice (all for non-hotbeds, but this was an egregious pick IMO)
2007: West Islip
2006: Boys' Latin/Georgetown Prep

I think Landon and West Genny were each #1 at least once and possibly twice during the years before that, but not positive.

[pcowlax]

2001 Landon
2002 Landon
2003 West Genny
2004 Manhasset
2005 McDonogh

These are from Laxpower archive. Looking at the top 20 those years, more than half, sometimes 70% publics, all over NY, NJ, PA, small schools like Penn Yan, CSH, such a different world now.

[laxguywm]

2000 - Ward Melville
(from 2000 to 2023 Ward Melville ranked #1 three times with 3 different coaches)

[Laxxal22]

2000 - Ward Melville
(from 2000 to 2023 Ward Melville ranked #1 three times with 3 different coaches)

So with a program like WM. Has lacrosse somewhat fallen off in the school district? Are they now losing a bunch of kids per class to Chaminade/St. Anthony's (I have no idea if those schools are a viable daily commute away)? Are kids off to boarding school? Or are they pretty much at the same level but now we're in the era of private school super teams?

I know I threw a lot of questions out there, but I'm wondering with a program like that if it's about decline of a public program or the private school arms race.

[pcowlax]

For many schools, at least in the NY and CT area, they have had significant declines in enrollment. This exacerbates the talent disparity with the private super teams. I don’t think lax is any less popular in the Three Villages or other hot spot towns but I think if you lined them up, the WM or WI (and obviously WG which has declined as a program) of today are not as good as the WM or WI of 10, 20, 30 years ago and the St. A, Brunswick, Lawrenceville of today is better than their counterparts of the past.

[coda]

For many schools, at least in the NY and CT area, they have had significant declines in enrollment. This exacerbates the talent disparity with the private super teams. I don’t think lax is any less popular in the Three Villages or other hot spot towns but I think if you lined them up, the WM or WI (and obviously WG which has declined as a program) of today are not as good as the WM or WI of 10, 20, 30 years ago and the St. A, Brunswick, Lawrenceville of today is better than their counterparts of the past.

Agree. The amount of national recruiting at boarding schools is next level compared to the past.. If you look at a teams like Lawrenceville, Culver, or Salisbury, you will find kids from Cali, Texas, Canada, Maryland, NY, and place in between.

[renault]

2000 - Ward Melville
(from 2000 to 2023 Ward Melville ranked #1 three times with 3 different coaches)

So with a program like WM. Has lacrosse somewhat fallen off in the school district? Are they now losing a bunch of kids per class to Chaminade/St. Anthony's (I have no idea if those schools are a viable daily commute away)? Are kids off to boarding school? Or are they pretty much at the same level but now we're in the era of private school super teams?

I know I threw a lot of questions out there, but I'm wondering with a program like that if it's about decline of a public program or the private school arms race.

They were the best team in the country as recently as 2018. I don't think it's really fair to completely write them off -- public school teams are always going to be a bit more inconsistent than privates.


I don't think we've heard the last of Ward Melville (West Islip, on the other hand...).