Tewaaraton Award 2024

[faircornell]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

[Hooz123]

Both excellent players, but i don't agree that leading the nation in PPG should be final arbiter, for the good reasons cited by other on this thread. And its no knock at all on Brandau to point out that quality of opponent should matter, and the Ivy teams not exactly known this year for elite defenses. Not knocking either player, just dont' think leading nation in points should determine the award.

There's 'leading the nation in PPG', then there's REALLY leading the nation in PPG. Brandau is so far out there, you have to consider the spread regardless of who they play.

And ftr, I still think Shellenberger deserves it and is likeliest to win (I just don't think Yale is going to get far enough in the tournament, if they even make it...and Brandau probably needs that to occur...if Yale did win the Natty, my gut tells me he'd in the Tewey rather easily, in spite of how great Shellenberger is)

I doubt anyone outside of New England agrees IMO. His points/spread argument isn't compelling enough... That's the Colt Brennan argument, and nobody thinks Colt Brennan deserved the Heisman in 2006 just because he threw for 58 TDs and 5500 yards. That happens when you throw the ball almost 600 times in a season.

Colt Brennan is a stretch. That's Chris Gray at BU in 2019 and, you're right, he wasn't a finalist nor did he deserve it.

Heck, Yale has a stronger schedule than Albany did in 2014 or 2015 when they got bounced in quarters and the Thompsons still won.

Brandau has 68 points in 10 games on 83 shots because Lyons is out, and Yale is decimated with injuries. Joey Spallina had 59pts in 10 games on 75 shots. Basically the same "efficiency output" to quantify all of this. Shelly is 48pts for 59 shots through 10 games, so if you do the math, Shelly would have literally the same points (68) as Brandau at the 83 shots mark. I get this isn't perfect, but at least it's some metric to emphasize efficiency, volume, and usage.

Who compares points to shots? It's not even close to perfect.

Even if Brandau continues pouring in stats at this clip, they play Dartmouth, Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton to finish the year. UVa finishes the season with the #1, #3, and #8 teams, then the ACC tournament. Do people really think another 10 point game vs. Hofstra is really that impressive as opposed to Shelly averaging a workmanlike 4pts/game here on out? Come on....let's get serious. Sorry, Brandau is going to get lost in the shuffle despite his impressive stats.

But hey, just my opinion. I just don't think anyone can argue a) he's a better lacrosse player than Shelly, or b) he's any more deserving. More important to his team? I would even argue Shelly is just as important to UVa as Brandau is to Yale. So, at the end of the day, I don't see what variable gives Brandau the edge. Purely aggregate stats? Meh...

If Brandau makes it to Memorial day, then let's check back in. Until then, this isn't a real debate (but it's fun either way). Just my two cents

It IS a real debate. And it's specifically about (b). And it's a toss up so far.

I'm not even advocating for Brandau, but the only shuffle he'll get lost in is your own headcanon final 5 of Shelly, Shelly, Shelly, Shelly, and Shelly.

2014... you picking Jordan Wolf, national champion, #2 in goals and #3 in points nationally; or the Thompsons?

You just proved one of my earlier points - the politics. See 2014. I'd argue Shelly's story line and the legacy is too juicy to pass up. I'd even even argue the Tewaaraton needs him more than he even cares about the award. But sure, if they want to take a permanent black eye and lose even more cred, pick Brandau over Shelly in 2024 Snub him not once, but twice! People will rag on that for years and years to come. Eventually it will grow into some sarcastic phrase when someone is shocked or gets swindled in the lacrosse community, "he's pulling a Brandau" One of the greatest players to ever play misses out for a ball hog on a mid team nobody remembers. Shelly is going to be an icon of the game, a real brand ambassador for the sport. This is like the NBA giving Bernard King the MVP in '84 instead of Larry Bird just because King led the league in pts/game. Nobody remembers Bernard King.

Just stop. This post is kind of over the top and I am being somewhat measured. You lost me at calling Yale, a team that won the championship in 2018, lost the title game in 2019 and has been in the tournament every year since 2015 a mid team nobody remembers???? And Shelly is a great player, but I think the game will survive if he doesn't win the award. When you consider that people here legitimately debate who should have won it last year among multiple deserving players and are having the same legitimate debate this season with multiple deserving players, it is pretty clear that Shelly is not a generational player. I'm not saying that to put Shelly down. I'm just pointing out that there are many players that are at his level right now and that he is not head and shoulders above them.

And if he doesn't win the award this year, it will not really matter for the survival and reputation of the sport. Some great players never won the award and went on to do great things for the sport (Rabil). And there have been some questionable winners in the past (Stanwick in 2011, Laveille in 2008) and the game survived.

The Ivy League is a top 3 lacrosse conference, whether you ACC fan boys want to accept that or not. And it does it with some headwinds - academic requirements, no scholarships, no grad student players, late start to practice, facilities. And yet, with these headwinds, the Ivies compete every year with the ACC and B10 - and Big East quite successfully. These insults from the ACC fans and players (see Kavanaugh's cringe worthy interview on the McAfee show after last year's title win as an example of how not to win gracefully) get old and tired.

You should be able to argue that you think Shelly deserves the award without deprecating a great player like Brandau, a top flight program like Yale, and a top conference like the Ivy League. I have tremendous respect for UVA as a university and its lax program. And I think the world of Tiffany (based on personal experience). He is a class act. I hope some of that class rubs off on you.

I'll just delete my comment.

[Finster]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

Matt Brandau is certainly making a case for himself. 9 points yesterday.

I still lean Shellenberger but Brandau is making this year an extremely competitive race. That said, for his last three games, each team has a defense capable of shutting down one offensive star: Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton. Yale ought to win all three, just not sure Brandau will put up huge numbers.

[Hooz123]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

Matt Brandau is certainly making a case for himself. 9 points yesterday.

I still lean Shellenberger but Brandau is making this year an extremely competitive race. That said, for his last three games, each team has a defense capable of shutting down one offensive star: Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton. Yale ought to win all three, just not sure Brandau will put up huge numbers.

Princeton just lost to a 2-win team...Ivy league is mid this year.

[Hooz123]

Both excellent players, but i don't agree that leading the nation in PPG should be final arbiter, for the good reasons cited by other on this thread. And its no knock at all on Brandau to point out that quality of opponent should matter, and the Ivy teams not exactly known this year for elite defenses. Not knocking either player, just dont' think leading nation in points should determine the award.

There's 'leading the nation in PPG', then there's REALLY leading the nation in PPG. Brandau is so far out there, you have to consider the spread regardless of who they play.

And ftr, I still think Shellenberger deserves it and is likeliest to win (I just don't think Yale is going to get far enough in the tournament, if they even make it...and Brandau probably needs that to occur...if Yale did win the Natty, my gut tells me he'd in the Tewey rather easily, in spite of how great Shellenberger is)

I doubt anyone outside of New England agrees IMO. His points/spread argument isn't compelling enough... That's the Colt Brennan argument, and nobody thinks Colt Brennan deserved the Heisman in 2006 just because he threw for 58 TDs and 5500 yards. That happens when you throw the ball almost 600 times in a season.

Colt Brennan is a stretch. That's Chris Gray at BU in 2019 and, you're right, he wasn't a finalist nor did he deserve it.

Heck, Yale has a stronger schedule than Albany did in 2014 or 2015 when they got bounced in quarters and the Thompsons still won.

Brandau has 68 points in 10 games on 83 shots because Lyons is out, and Yale is decimated with injuries. Joey Spallina had 59pts in 10 games on 75 shots. Basically the same "efficiency output" to quantify all of this. Shelly is 48pts for 59 shots through 10 games, so if you do the math, Shelly would have literally the same points (68) as Brandau at the 83 shots mark. I get this isn't perfect, but at least it's some metric to emphasize efficiency, volume, and usage.

Who compares points to shots? It's not even close to perfect.

Even if Brandau continues pouring in stats at this clip, they play Dartmouth, Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton to finish the year. UVa finishes the season with the #1, #3, and #8 teams, then the ACC tournament. Do people really think another 10 point game vs. Hofstra is really that impressive as opposed to Shelly averaging a workmanlike 4pts/game here on out? Come on....let's get serious. Sorry, Brandau is going to get lost in the shuffle despite his impressive stats.

But hey, just my opinion. I just don't think anyone can argue a) he's a better lacrosse player than Shelly, or b) he's any more deserving. More important to his team? I would even argue Shelly is just as important to UVa as Brandau is to Yale. So, at the end of the day, I don't see what variable gives Brandau the edge. Purely aggregate stats? Meh...

If Brandau makes it to Memorial day, then let's check back in. Until then, this isn't a real debate (but it's fun either way). Just my two cents

It IS a real debate. And it's specifically about (b). And it's a toss up so far.

I'm not even advocating for Brandau, but the only shuffle he'll get lost in is your own headcanon final 5 of Shelly, Shelly, Shelly, Shelly, and Shelly.

2014... you picking Jordan Wolf, national champion, #2 in goals and #3 in points nationally; or the Thompsons?

You just proved one of my earlier points - the politics. See 2014. I'd argue Shelly's story line and the legacy is too juicy to pass up. I'd even even argue the Tewaaraton needs him more than he even cares about the award. But sure, if they want to take a permanent black eye and lose even more cred, pick Brandau over Shelly in 2024 Snub him not once, but twice! People will rag on that for years and years to come. Eventually it will grow into some sarcastic phrase when someone is shocked or gets swindled in the lacrosse community, "he's pulling a Brandau" One of the greatest players to ever play misses out for a ball hog on a mid team nobody remembers. Shelly is going to be an icon of the game, a real brand ambassador for the sport. This is like the NBA giving Bernard King the MVP in '84 instead of Larry Bird just because King led the league in pts/game. Nobody remembers Bernard King.

Just stop. This post is kind of over the top and I am being somewhat measured. You lost me at calling Yale, a team that won the championship in 2018, lost the title game in 2019 and has been in the tournament every year since 2015 a mid team nobody remembers???? And Shelly is a great player, but I think the game will survive if he doesn't win the award. When you consider that people here legitimately debate who should have won it last year among multiple deserving players and are having the same legitimate debate this season with multiple deserving players, it is pretty clear that Shelly is not a generational player. I'm not saying that to put Shelly down. I'm just pointing out that there are many players that are at his level right now and that he is not head and shoulders above them.

And if he doesn't win the award this year, it will not really matter for the survival and reputation of the sport. Some great players never won the award and went on to do great things for the sport (Rabil). And there have been some questionable winners in the past (Stanwick in 2011, Laveille in 2008) and the game survived.

The Ivy League is a top 3 lacrosse conference, whether you ACC fan boys want to accept that or not. And it does it with some headwinds - academic requirements, no scholarships, no grad student players, late start to practice, facilities. And yet, with these headwinds, the Ivies compete every year with the ACC and B10 - and Big East quite successfully. These insults from the ACC fans and players (see Kavanaugh's cringe worthy interview on the McAfee show after last year's title win as an example of how not to win gracefully) get old and tired.

You should be able to argue that you think Shelly deserves the award without deprecating a great player like Brandau, a top flight program like Yale, and a top conference like the Ivy League. I have tremendous respect for UVA as a university and its lax program. And I think the world of Tiffany (based on personal experience). He is a class act. I hope some of that class rubs off on you.

Lol everyone knows what a dbag Paul Rabil is. Shelly is actually a good person. Anyway I'm just being facetious. Brandau and Shelly are both great players. I think the Ivy League is down across the board this year, but I'm mainly just stirring up discussion. Not being serious about these Tew takes.
Didn't mean to get disrespectful.

I think we can all agree as long as it's not Kav we good. That dude is legit the worst.

[10stone5]

^^ not very provocative - or even at all,

the Ivies aren't down this year.

[jrn19]

Depends how you define “down” I suppose

I’m not sure there’s a legitimate title contender in the conference because of how porous the defense is. Yale’s defense has been bad for years and Cornell without Adler and Ierlan has fallen off a cliff defensively. But there also wasn’t really a title contender in the conference last year, so on net it’s probably similar to where they were a year ago.

Is it as good as it was in 2022 or is there a team as good as Yale was in 2018-19? No, IMO

[Gobigred]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

Matt Brandau is certainly making a case for himself. 9 points yesterday.

I still lean Shellenberger but Brandau is making this year an extremely competitive race. That said, for his last three games, each team has a defense capable of shutting down one offensive star: Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton. Yale ought to win all three, just not sure Brandau will put up huge numbers.

Princeton just lost to a 2-win team...Ivy league is mid this year.

ACC 3-3 vs. Ivies as of noon 4/14/24. ACC "mid," too?

[10stone5]

Depends how you define “down” I suppose

I’m not sure there’s a legitimate title contender in the conference because of how porous the defense is. Yale’s defense has been bad for years and Cornell without Adler and Ierlan has fallen off a cliff defensively. But there also wasn’t really a title contender in the conference last year, so on net it’s probably similar to where they were a year ago.

Is it as good as it was in 2022 or is there a team as good as Yale was in 2018-19? No, IMO

Down means down,

they're not down.

[jrn19]

Depends how you define “down” I suppose

I’m not sure there’s a legitimate title contender in the conference because of how porous the defense is. Yale’s defense has been bad for years and Cornell without Adler and Ierlan has fallen off a cliff defensively. But there also wasn’t really a title contender in the conference last year, so on net it’s probably similar to where they were a year ago.

Is it as good as it was in 2022 or is there a team as good as Yale was in 2018-19? No, IMO

Down means down,

they're not down.

I don't know what that means so okay

[Finster]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

Matt Brandau is certainly making a case for himself. 9 points yesterday.

I still lean Shellenberger but Brandau is making this year an extremely competitive race. That said, for his last three games, each team has a defense capable of shutting down one offensive star: Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton. Yale ought to win all three, just not sure Brandau will put up huge numbers.

Princeton just lost to a 2-win team...Ivy league is mid this year.

Cornell just lost to the #1 team in D1 by all of a goal with 5 seconds left.

Care to revise your statement?

[coda]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

Matt Brandau is certainly making a case for himself. 9 points yesterday.

I still lean Shellenberger but Brandau is making this year an extremely competitive race. That said, for his last three games, each team has a defense capable of shutting down one offensive star: Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton. Yale ought to win all three, just not sure Brandau will put up huge numbers.

Princeton just lost to a 2-win team...Ivy league is mid this year.

Cornell just lost to the #1 team in D1 by all of a goal with 5 seconds left.

Care to revise your statement?

They also lost 20-9 to Penn State. I am guessing there someone in between those 2 games. In the end the Ivy has some serious offenses, but defensively they are not very good (apologies to Penn). They are like the old Big 12 in college football

[CU88a]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

Matt Brandau is certainly making a case for himself. 9 points yesterday.

I still lean Shellenberger but Brandau is making this year an extremely competitive race. That said, for his last three games, each team has a defense capable of shutting down one offensive star: Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton. Yale ought to win all three, just not sure Brandau will put up huge numbers.

Princeton just lost to a 2-win team...Ivy league is mid this year.

Cornell just lost to the #1 team in D1 by all of a goal with 5 seconds left.

Care to revise your statement?

+1

I know that as a Cornell fan, I wish we played more of the "strong" ACC teams, LOL. Kirst and Long are averaging 7 and 8 points respectively against the 2 top ACC teams. Kav bro's each only had 4 points today against a "weak defense" Ivy team in Cornell at a neutral site.

Brandau alone had 7 against Cornell, in Ithaca...

[Chousnake]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

Matt Brandau is certainly making a case for himself. 9 points yesterday.

I still lean Shellenberger but Brandau is making this year an extremely competitive race. That said, for his last three games, each team has a defense capable of shutting down one offensive star: Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton. Yale ought to win all three, just not sure Brandau will put up huge numbers.

Princeton just lost to a 2-win team...Ivy league is mid this year.

Cornell just lost to the #1 team in D1 by all of a goal with 5 seconds left.

Care to revise your statement?

They also lost 20-9 to Penn State. I am guessing there someone in between those 2 games. In the end the Ivy has some serious offenses, but defensively they are not very good (apologies to Penn). They are like the old Big 12 in college football

I just watched Cornell come within a few bad bounces of beating high and mighty ND and you still want plant a flag this offense-defense thing? Yale and Cornell seem to have offenses that are so good, they can give up 15+ goals to anyone and still win the game.

Virginia gave up 18 goals today to a team that scored 4 goals vs Syracuse. How do you explain that? This season changes from week to week and game to game.

[BigTurn]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

Matt Brandau is certainly making a case for himself. 9 points yesterday.

I still lean Shellenberger but Brandau is making this year an extremely competitive race. That said, for his last three games, each team has a defense capable of shutting down one offensive star: Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton. Yale ought to win all three, just not sure Brandau will put up huge numbers.

Princeton just lost to a 2-win team...Ivy league is mid this year.

Cornell just lost to the #1 team in D1 by all of a goal with 5 seconds left.

Care to revise your statement?

+1

I know that as a Cornell fan, I wish we played more of the "strong" ACC teams, LOL. Kirst and Long are averaging 7 and 8 points respectively against the 2 top ACC teams. Kav bro's each only had 4 points today against a "weak defense" Ivy team in Cornell at a neutral site.

Brandau alone had 7 against Cornell, in Ithaca...

ND had 13 names on the scoring sheet today vs. Yales 7, not to mention a win. ND has far more weapons, one or two guys don’t need to put the offense on their back.

[CU88a]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

Matt Brandau is certainly making a case for himself. 9 points yesterday.

I still lean Shellenberger but Brandau is making this year an extremely competitive race. That said, for his last three games, each team has a defense capable of shutting down one offensive star: Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton. Yale ought to win all three, just not sure Brandau will put up huge numbers.

Princeton just lost to a 2-win team...Ivy league is mid this year.

Cornell just lost to the #1 team in D1 by all of a goal with 5 seconds left.

Care to revise your statement?

+1

I know that as a Cornell fan, I wish we played more of the "strong" ACC teams, LOL. Kirst and Long are averaging 7 and 8 points respectively against the 2 top ACC teams. Kav bro's each only had 4 points today against a "weak defense" Ivy team in Cornell at a neutral site.

Brandau alone had 7 against Cornell, in Ithaca...

ND had 13 names on the scoring sheet today vs. Yales 7, not to mention a win. ND has far more weapons, one or two guys don’t need to put the offense on their back.

LOL, easy Francis...

What is the name of this thread topic?

[coda]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

Matt Brandau is certainly making a case for himself. 9 points yesterday.

I still lean Shellenberger but Brandau is making this year an extremely competitive race. That said, for his last three games, each team has a defense capable of shutting down one offensive star: Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton. Yale ought to win all three, just not sure Brandau will put up huge numbers.

Princeton just lost to a 2-win team...Ivy league is mid this year.

Cornell just lost to the #1 team in D1 by all of a goal with 5 seconds left.

Care to revise your statement?

They also lost 20-9 to Penn State. I am guessing there someone in between those 2 games. In the end the Ivy has some serious offenses, but defensively they are not very good (apologies to Penn). They are like the old Big 12 in college football

I just watched Cornell come within a few bad bounces of beating high and mighty ND and you still want plant a flag this offense-defense thing? Yale and Cornell seem to have offenses that are so good, they can give up 15+ goals to anyone and still win the game. Despite your comment, I highly doubt you believe UVa and Cornell have comparable defenses

Virginia gave up 18 goals today to a team that scored 4 goals vs Syracuse. How do you explain that? This season changes from week to week and game to game.

It’s almost like you should watch the season and make statements based on all the games, instead of 1 weekend. UVA is 12th in the nation giving up 9.73 goal per and Cornell is in the 60s giving up over 13. If you want to hang your hat on UVa pulling a goalie every week, so be it. I happen to think that was more the exception, than the rule.

Seems you actually agree with my comment. Why else say they have offenses that can win, when they give uo 15 goals? That is what I said. Relying on winning shootouts come the tournament is really tough. Takes 1 good goalie performance and it’s a quick exit. That is what happened vs PSU.

[Chousnake]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

Matt Brandau is certainly making a case for himself. 9 points yesterday.

I still lean Shellenberger but Brandau is making this year an extremely competitive race. That said, for his last three games, each team has a defense capable of shutting down one offensive star: Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton. Yale ought to win all three, just not sure Brandau will put up huge numbers.

Princeton just lost to a 2-win team...Ivy league is mid this year.

Cornell just lost to the #1 team in D1 by all of a goal with 5 seconds left.

Care to revise your statement?

They also lost 20-9 to Penn State. I am guessing there someone in between those 2 games. In the end the Ivy has some serious offenses, but defensively they are not very good (apologies to Penn). They are like the old Big 12 in college football

I just watched Cornell come within a few bad bounces of beating high and mighty ND and you still want plant a flag this offense-defense thing? Yale and Cornell seem to have offenses that are so good, they can give up 15+ goals to anyone and still win the game. Despite your comment, I highly doubt you believe UVa and Cornell have comparable defenses

Virginia gave up 18 goals today to a team that scored 4 goals vs Syracuse. How do you explain that? This season changes from week to week and game to game.

It’s almost like you should watch the season and make statements based on all the games, instead of 1 weekend. UVA is 12th in the nation giving up 9.73 goal per and Cornell is in the 60s giving up over 13. If you want to hang your hat on UVa pulling a goalie every week, so be it. I happen to think that was more the exception, than the rule.

Seems you actually agree with my comment. Why else say they have offenses that can win, when they give uo 15 goals? That is what I said. Relying on winning shootouts come the tournament is really tough. Takes 1 good goalie performance and it’s a quick exit. That is what happened vs PSU.

Losing in the tournament because the opposing goalie stood on his head can happen to any team. A win is a win. There are no style points for winning 12-9 rather than 16-13. And you obviously agree with me when you point out that you shouldn't base a season on one game and use UVA today and Cornell vs PSU as examples. That PSU game is an outlier. Maybe UVA's loss today was just that as well.

Cornell lost three games by one goal - two in OT and 1 with 6.4 seconds left. Any of those games could have gone the other way. Cornell won two games by a goal - one in OT and one with a few seconds left. Those could have gone the other way too. All were against top 20 teams. That is the way this season is. Anybody in the top 15 can beat another top 15 team, whether you are talking about an ACC team, B10, Ivy or Big East. To constantly bang the ACC B10 drum like you do and base it solely on one side of the field is just misplaced and , based on the season so far, wrong.

[coda]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

Matt Brandau is certainly making a case for himself. 9 points yesterday.

I still lean Shellenberger but Brandau is making this year an extremely competitive race. That said, for his last three games, each team has a defense capable of shutting down one offensive star: Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton. Yale ought to win all three, just not sure Brandau will put up huge numbers.

Princeton just lost to a 2-win team...Ivy league is mid this year.

Cornell just lost to the #1 team in D1 by all of a goal with 5 seconds left.

Care to revise your statement?

They also lost 20-9 to Penn State. I am guessing there someone in between those 2 games. In the end the Ivy has some serious offenses, but defensively they are not very good (apologies to Penn). They are like the old Big 12 in college football

I just watched Cornell come within a few bad bounces of beating high and mighty ND and you still want plant a flag this offense-defense thing? Yale and Cornell seem to have offenses that are so good, they can give up 15+ goals to anyone and still win the game. Despite your comment, I highly doubt you believe UVa and Cornell have comparable defenses

Virginia gave up 18 goals today to a team that scored 4 goals vs Syracuse. How do you explain that? This season changes from week to week and game to game.

It’s almost like you should watch the season and make statements based on all the games, instead of 1 weekend. UVA is 12th in the nation giving up 9.73 goal per and Cornell is in the 60s giving up over 13. If you want to hang your hat on UVa pulling a goalie every week, so be it. I happen to think that was more the exception, than the rule.

Seems you actually agree with my comment. Why else say they have offenses that can win, when they give uo 15 goals? That is what I said. Relying on winning shootouts come the tournament is really tough. Takes 1 good goalie performance and it’s a quick exit. That is what happened vs PSU.

Losing in the tournament because the opposing goalie stood on his head can happen to any team. A win is a win. There are no style points for winning 12-9 rather than 16-13. And you obviously agree with me when you point out that you shouldn't base a season on one game and use UVA today and Cornell vs PSU as examples. That PSU game is an outlier. Maybe UVA's loss today was just that as well.

Cornell lost three games by one goal - two in OT and 1 with 6.4 seconds left. Any of those games could have gone the other way. Cornell won two games by a goal - one in OT and one with a few seconds left. Those could have gone the other way too. All were against top 20 teams. That is the way this season is. Anybody in the top 15 can beat another top 15 team, whether you are talking about an ACC team, B10, Ivy or Big East. To constantly bang the ACC B10 drum like you do and base it solely on one side of the field is just misplaced and , based on the season so far, wrong.

You are just talking in circles. Let me know if you think Cornell or Yale has a good defense

[Chousnake]

Brandau would be a great player wherever he played.

The Ivies have taken a significant step up in the past decade in terms of athleticism and overall competitiveness. 5 Ivy teams are currently in the Top 20.

Matt Brandau is certainly making a case for himself. 9 points yesterday.

I still lean Shellenberger but Brandau is making this year an extremely competitive race. That said, for his last three games, each team has a defense capable of shutting down one offensive star: Hofstra, Albany, and Princeton. Yale ought to win all three, just not sure Brandau will put up huge numbers.

Princeton just lost to a 2-win team...Ivy league is mid this year.

Cornell just lost to the #1 team in D1 by all of a goal with 5 seconds left.

Care to revise your statement?

They also lost 20-9 to Penn State. I am guessing there someone in between those 2 games. In the end the Ivy has some serious offenses, but defensively they are not very good (apologies to Penn). They are like the old Big 12 in college football

I just watched Cornell come within a few bad bounces of beating high and mighty ND and you still want plant a flag this offense-defense thing? Yale and Cornell seem to have offenses that are so good, they can give up 15+ goals to anyone and still win the game. Despite your comment, I highly doubt you believe UVa and Cornell have comparable defenses

Virginia gave up 18 goals today to a team that scored 4 goals vs Syracuse. How do you explain that? This season changes from week to week and game to game.

It’s almost like you should watch the season and make statements based on all the games, instead of 1 weekend. UVA is 12th in the nation giving up 9.73 goal per and Cornell is in the 60s giving up over 13. If you want to hang your hat on UVa pulling a goalie every week, so be it. I happen to think that was more the exception, than the rule.

Seems you actually agree with my comment. Why else say they have offenses that can win, when they give uo 15 goals? That is what I said. Relying on winning shootouts come the tournament is really tough. Takes 1 good goalie performance and it’s a quick exit. That is what happened vs PSU.

Losing in the tournament because the opposing goalie stood on his head can happen to any team. A win is a win. There are no style points for winning 12-9 rather than 16-13. And you obviously agree with me when you point out that you shouldn't base a season on one game and use UVA today and Cornell vs PSU as examples. That PSU game is an outlier. Maybe UVA's loss today was just that as well.

Cornell lost three games by one goal - two in OT and 1 with 6.4 seconds left. Any of those games could have gone the other way. Cornell won two games by a goal - one in OT and one with a few seconds left. Those could have gone the other way too. All were against top 20 teams. That is the way this season is. Anybody in the top 15 can beat another top 15 team, whether you are talking about an ACC team, B10, Ivy or Big East. To constantly bang the ACC B10 drum like you do and base it solely on one side of the field is just misplaced and , based on the season so far, wrong.

You are just talking in circles. Let me know if you think Cornell or Yale has a good defense

So are you. I think Yale and Cornell are good teams and are in the mix with the other 10-12 top teams to be playing on Memorial Day weekend . Do you not agree?