2024 top 20

[FannOLax]

.... Tough year to grade. I have a feeling ND won’t win the Natty.

Never miss a chance to sneak in an ND jab

I'm not sure if that's a jab at ND, or a statement reflecting how difficult it is to repeat as national champions. It's been ten years since anyone has done it, and there are lots of really good teams at the top of the poll.

I agree with your statement, and odds are he’s probably not wrong, my comment was made in good fun. This commenter just salivates over ND losing and it cracks me up.

Also UVA technically went back to back in ‘19 and ‘21, though that gets an asterisk.

Ah yes, UVA in 2019 and 2021, you're right. The Irish are definitely looking strong this year, with just one loss that came pretty early in the season. I think it's great for the sport that a Midwestern school won the natty. Big target on their back, but the luck of the Irish could well see Notre Dame through this year.

[Finster]

IL's Top 20 as of 4/29/2024-

1  Notre Dame (10 - 1)
2  Johns Hopkins (10 - 3)
3  Syracuse (11 - 4)
4  Denver (11 - 2)
5  Virginia (10 - 4)
6  Duke (11 - 4)
7  Maryland (8 - 4)
8  Cornell (9 - 4)
9  Penn State (10 - 3)
10  Georgetown (10 - 3)
11  Army (11 - 2)
12  Princeton (9 - 4)
13  Yale (11 - 3)
14  Saint Joseph's (10 - 3)
15  Towson (11 - 3)
16  Penn (8 - 5)
17  Michigan (8 - 6)
18  Richmond (9 - 5)
19  Delaware (8 - 4)
20  Boston U (8 - 6)

Receiving Votes:
Harvard, Colgate, North Carolina, Jacksonville, UAlbany, Lehigh, Loyola, Utah, Sacred Heart, High Point

I think this has it correct. Tough year to grade. I have a feeling ND won’t win the Natty.

Never miss a chance to sneak in an ND jab

It’s not unreasonable to say ‘I don’t think ND will win’ when the top 14 all have a legitimate shot at the title. That’s a lot of bodies to bury on the way up the mountain. Unique year.

[Chousnake]

My new Top 20 4-27-2024.

My apologies to the late games but none will affect my top 20:

1. Notre Dame
2. Johns Hopkins
3. Denver
4. Penn State
5. Syracuse
6. Cornell
7. Georgetown
8. Duke
9. Maryland
10. Virginia
11. Yale
12. Princeton
13. Penn
14. Army
15. St. Joseph
16. Towson
17. Michigan
18. Boston University
19. Navy
20. North Carolina

Gobigred
Joewillie78

PSU seems to be skating below the overrated radar somehow. Loss to Colgate. Only decent wins against 2 Ivy Leaguers. Georgetown and Cornell are the other sketchy suspects, probably even Denver too (I mean they did beat JHU, but did they really??).

I just think if the seedings hold to this ranking, UVA will destroy Georgetown and
3 Denver vs. 6 Cornell and 4 PSU vs 5 Syracuse (Cuse has earned that ranking for sure) for a final 4 slot are kind of a joke relative to
1 Notre Dame vs 8/9 Duke/MD and 2 JHU vs 10 UVA

Earned #5 having lost to #6 and #9?

If you think there is a perfect equation, please provide it
Cornell lost a game 20-9; what other top 8 team has lost a game like that? They beat Syracuse at home 3 days after Cuse played Notre Dame; that's as fortunate scheduling as it gets.

#9 was Maryland early in the season. Ok. Syracuse sure looks better than Maryland right now, but that could just be optics.

Denver is #3. Their 1 in a million comeback against JHU in February is the difference between being ranked 3 and 13 now. Everyone who watched the game would say JHU was the dominant team, but ok again.

So it comes back to the question of Syracuse at #5. They ain't great, but they've played a lot harder schedule than many other teams in the same ranking discussion (albeit a ton of home games), and they've had top wins. #5 is about right, and Denver and PSU should easily be ranked below them.

With all due respect, your two posts here are a bit convoluted. Denver really didn't "beat" JHU? Is that a new category in addition to the good loss category. Losses that really aren't losses? If you watched the Cornell Denver, you would also conclude that Cornell was the better team, but lost because of multiple highly questionable unreleasable penalties that enabled Denver to erase a late 4 goal deficit. And Denver won at home vs Cornell and at JHU, so does Cornell get a non-loss loss too? PSU lost to Colgate-= bad loss, but what about the JHU loss to Navy? We can play the same game with other teams. ND beat Cornell, but did they really beat them? Many people watching that game thought Cornell was the better team. Has any JHU looked good beating any B10 team lately? How did ND lose to Georgetown? Duke hasn't looked good in a month, but they beat UVA. What does that say for UVA, who also hasn't looked good in a few weeks.

This is a very close field and with only 8 at large bids, someone is staying home that should be in the tournament, particularly if someone steals a bid. And someone is not getting a seed and a home game that should. I don't see how you can distinguish among JHU, Duke, UVA, Syracuse, Maryland, PSU, Cornell, Denver and Georgetown .

[SkipPass]

Factoring in AQ’s:

Duke, ND, Syracuse, UVA = 4 at large
Hopkins, Maryland, PSU = 2 at large
Yale, Cornell = 1 at large

You basically have one slot left - Georgetown, Penn, Princeton?

[mdk01]

Factoring in AQ’s:

Duke, ND, Syracuse, UVA = 4 at large
Hopkins, Maryland, PSU = 2 at large
Yale, Cornell = 1 at large

You basically have one slot left - Georgetown, Penn, Princeton?

Does Yale get the at large if their FOGOs are still injured and they lose in the Ivy Semifinals by a significant score? That would either mean no at large for the Ivies (a travesty) or Georgetown and either Penn or Princeton.

[coda]

Factoring in AQ’s:

Duke, ND, Syracuse, UVA = 4 at large
Hopkins, Maryland, PSU = 2 at large
Yale, Cornell = 1 at large

You basically have one slot left - Georgetown, Penn, Princeton?

Does Yale get the at large if their FOGOs are still injured and they lose in the Ivy Semifinals by a significant score? That would either mean no at large for the Ivies (a travesty) or Georgetown and either Penn or Princeton.

I think Cornell will get an at-large over Yale, if both lose their first tournament game. Cornell has slightly higher RPI and head to head over Yale. Plus the best SOS in the Ivy. Pretty amazing how close the 4 teams are in RPI (Cornell 9, Yale 10, Penn 12, Princeton 13).

[Chousnake]

Factoring in AQ’s:

Duke, ND, Syracuse, UVA = 4 at large
Hopkins, Maryland, PSU = 2 at large
Yale, Cornell = 1 at large

You basically have one slot left - Georgetown, Penn, Princeton?

Does Yale get the at large if their FOGOs are still injured and they lose in the Ivy Semifinals by a significant score? That would either mean no at large for the Ivies (a travesty) or Georgetown and either Penn or Princeton.

Princeton will have two wins vs Yale in two weeks. I have a hard time seeing how Yale gets in over Princeton after back to back head to head wins. And if Princeton beats Cornell on Sunday, I don't see how Yale gets a bid over Cornell either. These kind of comparisons are where H2H should be the determining criteria.

[CU88a]

Cornell loses to ND by 1 and beats Syracuse and barely moves. UVA loses to ND and Syracuse and solidifies its at large resume.

Sadly, loses don't count towards anything. I really like Cornell, but this ranking makes sense to me.

Outside of #3 Cuse, Cornell doesn't have a top 10 win. Wins over #12 Princeton and #13 Yale.

Losses to #1 ND, #4 Denver, #9 Penn State, and #16 Penn.

I'd put Penn State above Cornell tbh.

I am not saying that you are wrong, but using your approach, how is UVA ranked higher than CU at this stage of the season?

My heartburn is that UVA is on a three (3) game losing streak. This is no longer "pre or early season". They are what their field performance says they are today, Monday April 29th.

How can this string of losses have them sitting so high; unless people are telling us that there are indeed "good losses"; but only for UVA...

[coda]

Cornell loses to ND by 1 and beats Syracuse and barely moves. UVA loses to ND and Syracuse and solidifies its at large resume.

Sadly, loses don't count towards anything. I really like Cornell, but this ranking makes sense to me.

Outside of #3 Cuse, Cornell doesn't have a top 10 win. Wins over #12 Princeton and #13 Yale.

Losses to #1 ND, #4 Denver, #9 Penn State, and #16 Penn.

I'd put Penn State above Cornell tbh.

I am not saying that you are wrong, but using your approach, how is UVA ranked higher than CU at this stage of the season?

My heartburn is that UVA is on a three (3) game losing streak. This is no longer "pre or early season". They are what their field performance says they are today, Monday April 29th.

How can this string of losses have them sitting so high; unless people are telling us that there are indeed "good losses"; but only for UVA...

Serious question. Why do you think Cornell should be ranked above Uva? Records are essentially the same. UVA has played a tougher schedule.

If I had to pick NC contenders. UVa would be in the list with ND, Duke, Cuse, Hopkins and PSU..

[BigTurn]

Cornell loses to ND by 1 and beats Syracuse and barely moves. UVA loses to ND and Syracuse and solidifies its at large resume.

Sadly, loses don't count towards anything. I really like Cornell, but this ranking makes sense to me.

Outside of #3 Cuse, Cornell doesn't have a top 10 win. Wins over #12 Princeton and #13 Yale.

Losses to #1 ND, #4 Denver, #9 Penn State, and #16 Penn.

I'd put Penn State above Cornell tbh.

I am not saying that you are wrong, but using your approach, how is UVA ranked higher than CU at this stage of the season?

My heartburn is that UVA is on a three (3) game losing streak. This is no longer "pre or early season". They are what their field performance says they are today, Monday April 29th.

How can this string of losses have them sitting so high; unless people are telling us that there are indeed "good losses"; but only for UVA...

Although I completely agree with you on which way teams are trending, the committee made it clear in 2022 when they left out ND that they do not factor in whether teams are getting hot or fading. A loss in Feb is the same as a loss in April.

[10stone5]

That,

and Notre Dame's RPI wasn't good enough in 2022, Notre Dame's SoS wasn't good enough in 2022,
Notre Dame did not have enough top 1-10 RPI wins in 2022, Notre Dame lost to one of the last-in Ohio State in 2022,
Notre Dame rated below Ohio State in NCAA selection criteria - so Notre Dame was out in 2022.

[Lager]

Cornell loses to ND by 1 and beats Syracuse and barely moves. UVA loses to ND and Syracuse and solidifies its at large resume.

Sadly, loses don't count towards anything. I really like Cornell, but this ranking makes sense to me.

Outside of #3 Cuse, Cornell doesn't have a top 10 win. Wins over #12 Princeton and #13 Yale.

Losses to #1 ND, #4 Denver, #9 Penn State, and #16 Penn.

I'd put Penn State above Cornell tbh.

I am not saying that you are wrong, but using your approach, how is UVA ranked higher than CU at this stage of the season?

My heartburn is that UVA is on a three (3) game losing streak. This is no longer "pre or early season". They are what their field performance says they are today, Monday April 29th.

How can this string of losses have them sitting so high; unless people are telling us that there are indeed "good losses"; but only for UVA...

Serious question. Why do you think Cornell should be ranked above Uva? Records are essentially the same. UVA has played a tougher schedule.

If I had to pick NC contenders. UVa would be in the list with ND, Duke, Cuse, Hopkins and PSU..

And why is Cornell not on that list lol? Beat cuse and played ND even. "Even" might even be being a bit generous to ND, who took major advantage of Cornell's back up shorties playing and outside of that really failed to showcase any sort of superior ACC physical dominance. Duke also got beat down by a good but not great Penn team.

[coda]

Cornell loses to ND by 1 and beats Syracuse and barely moves. UVA loses to ND and Syracuse and solidifies its at large resume.

Sadly, loses don't count towards anything. I really like Cornell, but this ranking makes sense to me.

Outside of #3 Cuse, Cornell doesn't have a top 10 win. Wins over #12 Princeton and #13 Yale.

Losses to #1 ND, #4 Denver, #9 Penn State, and #16 Penn.

I'd put Penn State above Cornell tbh.

I am not saying that you are wrong, but using your approach, how is UVA ranked higher than CU at this stage of the season?

My heartburn is that UVA is on a three (3) game losing streak. This is no longer "pre or early season". They are what their field performance says they are today, Monday April 29th.

How can this string of losses have them sitting so high; unless people are telling us that there are indeed "good losses"; but only for UVA...

Serious question. Why do you think Cornell should be ranked above Uva? Records are essentially the same. UVA has played a tougher schedule.

If I had to pick NC contenders. UVa would be in the list with ND, Duke, Cuse, Hopkins and PSU..

And why is Cornell not on that list lol? Beat cuse and played ND even. "Even" might even be being a bit generous to ND, who took major advantage of Cornell's back up shorties playing and outside of that really failed to showcase any sort of superior ACC physical dominance. Duke also got beat down by a good but not great Penn team.

They are not on the list, because that list in basically teams with top 10 offenses and defense (though I cheated a little with UVa). I always love when people cherry pick the ND game, but dont mention the PSU game. Its almost like they have an agenda. I love the Cornell offense and gritty culture they have, but I dont think they have the defense to be a contender. I have their defense ranked in the 30s. I left Maryland off the list for the opposite reason, I dont think they have an offense to compete for the title. No issues if Cornell proves me wrong. They are a fun team to watch.

[BigTurn]

That,

and Notre Dame's RPI wasn't good enough in 2022, Notre Dame's SoS wasn't good enough in 2022,
Notre Dame did not have enough top 1-10 RPI wins in 2022, Notre Dame lost to one of the last-in Ohio State in 2022,
Notre Dame rated below Ohio State in NCAA selection criteria - so Notre Dame was out in 2022.

That was not the point… since you missed it, in the process of all that, the committee made it clear they do not care whether a team is on a winning or losing streak, nor do they care what time of year a loss occurs.

[BigTurn]

Cornell loses to ND by 1 and beats Syracuse and barely moves. UVA loses to ND and Syracuse and solidifies its at large resume.

Sadly, loses don't count towards anything. I really like Cornell, but this ranking makes sense to me.

Outside of #3 Cuse, Cornell doesn't have a top 10 win. Wins over #12 Princeton and #13 Yale.

Losses to #1 ND, #4 Denver, #9 Penn State, and #16 Penn.

I'd put Penn State above Cornell tbh.

I am not saying that you are wrong, but using your approach, how is UVA ranked higher than CU at this stage of the season?

My heartburn is that UVA is on a three (3) game losing streak. This is no longer "pre or early season". They are what their field performance says they are today, Monday April 29th.

How can this string of losses have them sitting so high; unless people are telling us that there are indeed "good losses"; but only for UVA...

Serious question. Why do you think Cornell should be ranked above Uva? Records are essentially the same. UVA has played a tougher schedule.

If I had to pick NC contenders. UVa would be in the list with ND, Duke, Cuse, Hopkins and PSU..

And why is Cornell not on that list lol? Beat cuse and played ND even. "Even" might even be being a bit generous to ND, who took major advantage of Cornell's back up shorties playing and outside of that really failed to showcase any sort of superior ACC physical dominance. Duke also got beat down by a good but not great Penn team.

Even might be generous? Remind me who won that game? Cuse could say the same exact thing about their loss to Cornell, using your logic..

[Lager]

Too many folks focused on 'best win'. With UVA, their losses - many of them close - are to the top four ranked teams (as another poster pointed out). They are a very good team, flawed (like most), and nobody will want to face them in tourney. Who, and how, you lose is as important to me as wins.

Tough to compare teams. as on example, Watched Cornell play super well (and take advantage of worst ND D performance in years) to push ND to limits. Equally, lose by 11 to PSU? Regardless of seeding, this tourney will be chaotic.

lmao dude what qualifies the "worst ND D performance in years"?? They were overmatched by Cornell's athleticism and skill on offense, plain and simple. It's not like they suddenly forgot the basics of how to slide or guard a ball carrier. This is just revisionist history; ND's offense displayed no sort of dominance unless it was blowing by Cornell's back up shorties (starters Davis and Bozzi both got hurt early in the season).

[wgdsr]

That,

and Notre Dame's RPI wasn't good enough in 2022, Notre Dame's SoS wasn't good enough in 2022,
Notre Dame did not have enough top 1-10 RPI wins in 2022, Notre Dame lost to one of the last-in Ohio State in 2022,
Notre Dame rated below Ohio State in NCAA selection criteria - so Notre Dame was out in 2022.

just clarifications, 10stone:
nd had 2 top 10 wins, that was 2 more than 3 at larges, including tosu. their rpi was 3 or 4 higher than tosu.
don't remember about sos and hoo had what.
as far as every other selection criterion other than head-to-head (6-8? of them depending on how you break them down), nd's was better than tosu.
better wins across the board in top 10, 20.
more of those wins.
better average rpi wins, all games.
better average rpi losses, all games.
worse losses were tosu.

[ICGrad]

Factoring in AQ’s:

Duke, ND, Syracuse, UVA = 4 at large
Hopkins, Maryland, PSU = 2 at large
Yale, Cornell = 1 at large

You basically have one slot left - Georgetown, Penn, Princeton?

Does Yale get the at large if their FOGOs are still injured and they lose in the Ivy Semifinals by a significant score? That would either mean no at large for the Ivies (a travesty) or Georgetown and either Penn or Princeton.

Princeton will have two wins vs Yale in two weeks. I have a hard time seeing how Yale gets in over Princeton after back to back head to head wins. And if Princeton beats Cornell on Sunday, I don't see how Yale gets a bid over Cornell either. These kind of comparisons are where H2H should be the determining criteria.

By that logic, with a Penn/Princeton Ivy League Final, you're giving the loser the at-large? Penn would have beaten Cornell twice in that scenario.

I think if Yale loses first round of the Ivies and Cornell wins, there is no way Yale gets an at large over Cornell. But if Cornell loses on Friday I think they're out.

[ICGrad]

I always love when people cherry pick the ND game, but dont mention the PSU game.

I think it's more the overall body of work, and seeing that one outlier in the larger picture.

I mean, you have PSU in your list of contenders, and yet...Colgate? Again that one outlier doesn't define their season, and I agree with that, but would extend the same consideration to Cornell, whose other 3 loses were by one goal each and who don't have a loss to a Colgate on their resume.

[norcalhop]

I always love when people cherry pick the ND game, but dont mention the PSU game.

I think it's more the overall body of work, and seeing that one outlier in the larger picture.

I mean, you have PSU in your list of contenders, and yet...Colgate? Again that one outlier doesn't define their season, and I agree with that, but would extend the same consideration to Cornell, whose other 3 loses were by one goal each and who don't have a loss to a Colgate on their resume.

Colgate also beat Army. They aren't exactly a bottom feeder team. Notre Dame will likely be the #1 seed. As for Cornell's wins - that syracuse one was extremely controversial as you all know. I've yet to see a single lacrosse game in which the offensive coordinator was thrown out in addition to a 3 minute non-releasable penalty. Cornell might end up playing them in the quarterfinals. We'll see if the 1st game was a fluke.

Every single team right now has legitimate questions. Duke, UVa, Yale, Princeton, etc all look beatable. There are also pressing questions about Penn State's faceoffs, Hopkins' offense, Maryland's offense etc etc. ND has the least questions in my mind.