Liberty League 2024

[Laxattackjack]

I am a fan of the teams in the Liberty League but I can't understand why the question of whether it is the best league in DIII is constantly a subject of conversation. Same for NESCAC folks too. I mean you are arguing to an echo chamber more or less. The only thing I can think of is how Pool B teams getting AQ's leaves really good teams who are battle tested in better leagues sitting out of the tournament because the NCAA does not want to have 3 or 4 teams from the same league getting an at large seeding.

Spot on. All tournaments in every sport allow the cream to rise to the top. The Pool B experiment is dead. Name me a Pool B team that has elevated its program in the last five years due to its exposure in the tournament. Instead, good teams that play competitive schedules or are in tough conferences are left at home on selection Sunday. Those teams would crush the Pool B’s by double digits. Take the best twenty four teams in D3 and let them fight it out.

pool B is growing the sport. it’s the same thing that happened in the 80’s with ND always getting an automatic bid no matter what the record. eventually, they become the best in the country. imagine if they were not included, ND lacrosse could resemble missouri lacrosse.
let’s be honest, if a team finishes in 4th place in their own conference, they probably don’t deserve to make the tourney.

[BallBag]

I agree with you to a point, Laxattackjack.... but the 4th place team in Liberty is STILL better than those other teams. Look at the top 4 teams in Liberty THIS year. They occupy 4 of the top 10 spots...I am all for the thought of expanding the game but at the same time, the system needs to be altered in some way. I don't have the answer though LOL

[SixBySix]

Spot on. All tournaments in every sport allow the cream to rise to the top. The Pool B experiment is dead. Name me a Pool B team that has elevated its program in the last five years due to its exposure in the tournament. Instead, good teams that play competitive schedules or are in tough conferences are left at home on selection Sunday. Those teams would crush the Pool B’s by double digits. Take the best twenty four teams in D3 and let them fight it out.

A little outside of your range, but CNU were nobodies before their 2013 Pool B bid.

[Dlaxva5]

I am a fan of the teams in the Liberty League but I can't understand why the question of whether it is the best league in DIII is constantly a subject of conversation. Same for NESCAC folks too. I mean you are arguing to an echo chamber more or less. The only thing I can think of is how Pool B teams getting AQ's leaves really good teams who are battle tested in better leagues sitting out of the tournament because the NCAA does not want to have 3 or 4 teams from the same league getting an at large seeding.

Spot on. All tournaments in every sport allow the cream to rise to the top. The Pool B experiment is dead. Name me a Pool B team that has elevated its program in the last five years due to its exposure in the tournament. Instead, good teams that play competitive schedules or are in tough conferences are left at home on selection Sunday. Those teams would crush the Pool B’s by double digits. Take the best twenty four teams in D3 and let them fight it out.

pool B is growing the sport. it’s the same thing that happened in the 80’s with ND always getting an automatic bid no matter what the record. eventually, they become the best in the country. imagine if they were not included, ND lacrosse could resemble missouri lacrosse.
let’s be honest, if a team finishes in 4th place in their own conference, they probably don’t deserve to make the tourney.

A little early this year as this usually comes out in early May - Why are Division III lacrosse fans always looking to only put in the "best" teams in the postseason tournament??? No AQs, no teams from weak conferences that wouldn't get in based upon RPI, Ranking or the Eye Test, etc. I cannot think of one other NCAA sport does this - only puts in the "best' teams after a regular season and conference championship play (except the Football FBS - which is in their own category). Every year it is the same thing on these Forums - this 5th place LL or NESCAC team would beat Team X that is in this weak conference and they will lose by 20. Just watch March Madness...plenty of teams are in and they are not the "best" 64. Without AQs and Pool B - why would these schools fund this sport and why would kids go there to play???

[River Donkey]

We need to stop sacrificing the integrity of the game for the growth of the game. The best teams need to be in the playoffs regardless of region or conference.

[Pegasus6]

The growth of the game has come a long just fine. The net total of kids playing the game is enormous so much so that many "D-I" small schools (Quotes Intentional) have started programs and have no chance whatsoever of making the tournament. Small liberal arts DI schools have to compete against all the Big program money schools, Big 10, Ivies, ACC etc. In comparison, it is hard to see why D3 does not have the same selection process.

[D3LaxFan2]

We need to stop sacrificing the integrity of the game for the growth of the game. The best teams need to be in the playoffs regardless of region or conference.

Oakland just beat Kentucky

[JustOneTime]

We need to stop sacrificing the integrity of the game for the growth of the game. The best teams need to be in the playoffs regardless of region or conference.

If this was the case who determines who the best teams are? Whose "rankings" will we go by? Just let those who yell the loudest on Fan Lax decide? Perhaps the biased folks at Inside Lacrosse? The system now is solid. I like the AQ's. The 5th place team in the LL or NESCAC is not going to win the NCAA tournament. Each year a few teams may get "snubbed" but those that do were not going very far anyway.

[aroundtheoutside]

Until we have a year that the best teams aren't there at the end, I don't think it matters that much for the integrity of the tournament how the AQ's, at-larges and pools are handled. I know it matters a lot to the bubble teams who may or may not get to put an 'NCAA bid' feather in their cap, but those teams, whether they land in or out, aren't going to have an impact on the final four.

[RetiredLLLaxer]

First full slate of conference play, figure I’d take a stab at some predictions.

RIT vs RPI: 13-11 RIT
Union vs Clarkson: 14-9 Union
Ithaca vs Vassar: 11-9 Ithaca
SLU vs Skidmore: 15-7 SLU

Ugly weather this weekend so who knows! Some of these have potential to be a lot closer than one would think.

[Laxattackjack]

We need to stop sacrificing the integrity of the game for the growth of the game. The best teams need to be in the playoffs regardless of region or conference.

how does allowing a few extra at large teams hurt the integrity of the game? one extra weekend of play. all fans love it. and after that first weekend, you have 8 teams.

[richard]

As it stands now most of the top 25 teams get into the tournament.

[Dlaxva5]

We need to stop sacrificing the integrity of the game for the growth of the game. The best teams need to be in the playoffs regardless of region or conference.

Not one other NCAA sport does this....

And I have no idea what "integrity of the game" means in this context. Pretty sure they don't change the rules for the lesser ranked teams that qualify.

[STICKIT]

When should the ten man ride be used?
Does it make sense to use a ten man ride in the first quarter when up by 3 to 4 goals?
How should coaches evaluate the effectiveness of using the ten man ride?
Should they compare the number of empty net goals they have given up using the ten man ride to the number of times they have forced a turnover that resulted in a goal in that possession? If so, should coaches continue to use a ten man ride if their team has given up 7 empty net goals and only scored one time out of a turnover forced by the ten man ride?
Something the lacrosse gurus can chew on.

[JustOneTime]

When should the ten man ride be used?
Does it make sense to use a ten man ride in the first quarter when up by 3 to 4 goals?
How should coaches evaluate the effectiveness of using the ten man ride?
Should they compare the number of empty net goals they have given up using the ten man ride to the number of times they have forced a turnover that resulted in a goal in that possession? If so, should coaches continue to use a ten man ride if their team has given up 7 empty net goals and only scored one time out of a turnover forced by the ten man ride?
Something the lacrosse gurus can chew on.

This is a great question and perhaps deserves its own thread. I'm a fan of a team that uses a 10 man ride and they have been burned several times. There is nothing more frustrating for a fan then when the other team scores into an empty net. It's also very uplifting to the team that scores this way. It seems like it's not worth it most of the time and should only used sparingly as sort of a sneak attack trick play.

[Laxfan1414]

When should the ten man ride be used?
Does it make sense to use a ten man ride in the first quarter when up by 3 to 4 goals?
How should coaches evaluate the effectiveness of using the ten man ride?
Should they compare the number of empty net goals they have given up using the ten man ride to the number of times they have forced a turnover that resulted in a goal in that possession? If so, should coaches continue to use a ten man ride if their team has given up 7 empty net goals and only scored one time out of a turnover forced by the ten man ride?
Something the lacrosse gurus can chew on.

This seems like a specific situation. Are you referring to a certain team or coach?

I think there is a cost/benefit when it comes to a 10 man ride. Depends on how much risk one is willing to take and what kind of athletes a team have to run the ride. So I don’t think there is a straightforward answer, depends on the team and situation. That being said, when a team is down and they need to run a 10 man ride to get the ball back at the end of a playoff game when everyone is tight, it can be extremely beneficial to have experience running it in a real game situation rather than just 10 minutes at the end of practice a couple times a week. That could be the difference between winning and losing in a tight game and the aggression shown throughout the season could pay off even though the balance sheet of goals doesn’t always show it.

[FosterLax3]

Skidmore could be a trap game for SLU tomorrow. The thorough-breads are no slouch and SLU has not played since their big mustang classic weekend. The Saints need to come out of the gate firing and not think this game will be a cake walk because they are ranked #4 or this game could be a nail-bitter.

[richard]

Skidmore will be pissed about their loss to WAC too. Clarkson,Ithaca,Vassar historically can’t be taken lightly either.

[Leonard Washington]

Skidmore could be a trap game for SLU tomorrow. The thorough-breads are no slouch and SLU has not played since their big mustang classic weekend. The Saints need to come out of the gate firing and not think this game will be a cake walk because they are ranked #4 or this game could be a nail-bitter.

Skidmore has gotten better and better these last few years.

SLU will make it 12 straight over the Thoroughbreds. Close for a little bit, but Larries by 7.

[ah23]

RPI-RIT has lived up to expectations, what a game. If RPI could clear the ball at all they likely win it in regulation - sub-70% is crazy.

Edit: RPI cleared at 65.5%; Perry’s save percentage was 72.7%. Incredible.