"The Deep State" aka the American Intelligence Community

[old salt]

So you don't trust the FBI to be able to verify the authenticity of the laptop ? .

Yep. But then I don't believe in a Deep State...that's you, my man. So why do YOU trust the FBI here...what happened to your skepticism?

This is LITERALLY my point: now that they're going after a Republican, your distrust of this Deep State of yours disappears. It's a Xmas Miracle!!!!

But to answer your question directly, I trust that the FBI verified that yes, this is Hunter's laptop. That's it. That's the comment they made, and said NOTHING about verifying every file and email.

So no, I don't believe that the veracity of the contents of said laptop is unassailable. Were files deleted? What did this store owner do to it? Who the F knows? Unlike you, I don't believe ANYONE who would give my laptop to Rudy (snicker) Giuliani, any more than I trust Giuliani himself.

And is the "copy" that he gave to Giuliani identical to what the FBI has? How could you possibly know? The FBI ain't talkin' about that.

But sure, pretend you don't already know this OS.

Does the DoJ IJ have any love note texts on govt devices between the FBI agents in the laptop investigation, talking about their insurance plan ?

Here, let me turn up the volume so you get it: You have to open an investigation on these FBI agents to find out, OS.

Start handing out subpoenas, warrants, and turn the FBI agents' lives upside down, just like Trump did. Multiple investigations from multiple departments.

Get it? No really----do you get it now? THAT is why Trump did that, OS. He knows that these agents are humans, and the more digging you do, the more you can discredit their work and find anything that APPEARS to be bad....and then out comes the exaggerations, even though the FBI didn't find that they did anything unethical or illegal. Just make it LOOK like that happened, and that's enough for FoxNation.

And YOU fell for this game, OS. All in in the name of the letter R.....

Shouting in all caps does not make your feeble attempted analogies credible.

The FBI lovebirds were caught by the DoJ IG internal controls -- they did it to themselves.
Nobody started an investigation on them.

The FBI identified the Russia hackers sufficiently to charge them in Federal Court, by name & computer station,
... & to justify sanctions, expel diplomats & seize diplomatic properties, .
That was sufficient for you to go to war with Russia for meddling in our elections,,
You trusted the FBI for all that, yet the same FBI tech experts are not capable of verifying the authenticity of what's in Hunter's laptop files.

[old salt]

Laying down the smokescreen on Hunter's laptop. This is CBS news throwing the BS flag on Hunter's flacks :

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-biden-laptop-photo/
A team led by Kevin Morris, an entertainment lawyer best known for crafting a 9-figure deal for the creators of the animated series "South Park," has been probing the backstory of how another Hunter Biden laptop containing what appear to be years of personal and intimate emails and business records found its way to news reporters and authorities. The effort appears to be aimed at blunting the impact of an ongoing federal investigation into Hunter Biden's tax records and business dealings by sowing doubts about that computer, which made headlines in 2020.

A source from Hunter Biden's team of advisers told CBS News the laptop now in their possession may be the key to determining if anything was altered or added to that second laptop discovered at a Delaware repair shop — or to the other hard drives that have journeyed through multiple sets of hands.

"We have the Rosetta Stone," the adviser said.

"They can send us theirs and we'll see what they have," the adviser said, referring to news outlets and various critics of Hunter Biden who have copies of the laptop contents that first went public in the New York Post during the 2020 presidential campaign. "They should be the ones with the burden of proof in this nasty circus."

Hunter Biden's team has produced no evidence of alterations to the drives that have leaked.

[RedFromMI]

I am sure that the FBI has some pretty good experts - but it is NOT clear that the evidence they have in the case of the laptop would be sufficient to actually determine authenticity of each and every piece of data on the laptop. This is especially true when the chain of custody has been broken - and it is not entirely clear who had the laptop before it ended up in the repair shop.

Sometimes to evaluate the authenticity you need more information than just the files present - you might need collaborating documents elsewhere that allow you to determine whether or not something had been modified during any possession you do not have an actual record of.

Emails, for example have both source and destination places, and at least two copies of the email that have been stored at each end of the transmission process (sender's outbox and receiver's inbox). So you can see if the metadata and contents agree. That may not be possible with this laptop - because you may have NO copies of the data within. So then you need to have other information to determine if the data MIGHT be untouched or not.

So your comparison is quite bogus. Apples to oranges.

[MDlaxfan76]

Laying down the smokescreen on Hunter's laptop. This is CBS news throwing the BS flag on Hunter's flacks :

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-biden-laptop-photo/
A team led by Kevin Morris, an entertainment lawyer best known for crafting a 9-figure deal for the creators of the animated series "South Park," has been probing the backstory of how another Hunter Biden laptop containing what appear to be years of personal and intimate emails and business records found its way to news reporters and authorities. The effort appears to be aimed at blunting the impact of an ongoing federal investigation into Hunter Biden's tax records and business dealings by sowing doubts about that computer, which made headlines in 2020.

A source from Hunter Biden's team of advisers told CBS News the laptop now in their possession may be the key to determining if anything was altered or added to that second laptop discovered at a Delaware repair shop — or to the other hard drives that have journeyed through multiple sets of hands.

"We have the Rosetta Stone," the adviser said.

"They can send us theirs and we'll see what they have," the adviser said, referring to news outlets and various critics of Hunter Biden who have copies of the laptop contents that first went public in the New York Post during the 2020 presidential campaign. "They should be the ones with the burden of proof in this nasty circus."

Hunter Biden's team has produced no evidence of alterations to the drives that have leaked.

I dunno about you but if someone found one of my old laptops I'd have a helluva time proving anything was altered after it left my possession...I might think some stuff was altered, but how could I prove it?

[MDlaxfan76]

I am sure that the FBI has some pretty good experts - but it is NOT clear that the evidence they have in the case of the laptop would be sufficient to actually determine authenticity of each and every piece of data on the laptop. This is especially true when the chain of custody has been broken - and it is not entirely clear who had the laptop before it ended up in the repair shop.

Sometimes to evaluate the authenticity you need more information than just the files present - you might need collaborating documents elsewhere that allow you to determine whether or not something had been modified during any possession you do not have an actual record of.

Emails, for example have both source and destination places, and at least two copies of the email that have been stored at each end of the transmission process (sender's outbox and receiver's inbox). So you can see if the metadata and contents agree. That may not be possible with this laptop - because you may have NO copies of the data within. So then you need to have other information to determine if the data MIGHT be untouched or not.

So your comparison is quite bogus. Apples to oranges.

exactly...but because it can't be disproven, must be true according to these bozos...'cause, Rudy's such an honest and reliable fella...

It's kinda crazy, really...it's not as if folks are saying that Hunter's clean as a whistle, quite the opposite. And I don't hear people saying that they're cool with the way family members of politicians and celebrities of all sorts can trade on their names...

But show me where the politician has done someone an actual favor they wouldn't have done if it weren't for the 'bribe', if such...and I think we'll all say hold the politician to account...right?

But show me the actual evidence the politician was involved.
Not some claptrap that we are supposed to imagine means more...

That's just a partisan hit job.

[a fan]

Shouting in all caps does not make your feeble attempted analogies credible.

The FBI lovebirds were caught by the DoJ IG internal controls -- they did it to themselves.
Nobody started an investigation on them.

Did WHAT to themselves? They. did. nothing. Didn't break the law. Didn't even break a sweat..they said they didn't like Trump....just like, oh, about half the country. THIS is your "Deep State", OS? Two agents who (gasp) don't like Trump

Oh no! What will we do? How will our country survive two FBI agents with (gasp) a political opinion!!!!

That's it? Six years, and this Deep State of yours are two FBI agents telling the world that they don't like Trump?

Wow. What a conspiracy OS. Good thing you were all over this. Next

You trusted the FBI for all that, yet the same FBI tech experts are not capable of verifying the authenticity of what's in Hunter's laptop files.

Dude. Now you're just playing playing the Petey-toddler game.

You're telling is that you can't distinguish between

1. "The FBI has verified that this is Hunter's Laptop"

and.....2. "The FBI has verified that every shred of data on this laptop is here because Hunter himself put it there".

Come on. Stop with the fake stupid. We get more than enough of that from Petey. I agree that the FBI has verified #1.

They haven't said word one about #2.

And again....YOU are the one who doesn't trust the FBI. Unless, obviously, they're telling you something that you want to hear. It's hilarious that you think this makes sense.

[old salt]

I am sure that the FBI has some pretty good experts - but it is NOT clear that the evidence they have in the case of the laptop would be sufficient to actually determine authenticity of each and every piece of data on the laptop. This is especially true when the chain of custody has been broken - and it is not entirely clear who had the laptop before it ended up in the repair shop.

Sometimes to evaluate the authenticity you need more information than just the files present - you might need collaborating documents elsewhere that allow you to determine whether or not something had been modified during any possession you do not have an actual record of.

Emails, for example have both source and destination places, and at least two copies of the email that have been stored at each end of the transmission process (sender's outbox and receiver's inbox). So you can see if the metadata and contents agree. That may not be possible with this laptop - because you may have NO copies of the data within. So then you need to have other information to determine if the data MIGHT be untouched or not.

So your comparison is quite bogus. Apples to oranges.

exactly...but because it can't be disproven, must be true according to these bozos...'cause, Rudy's such an honest and reliable fella...

It's kinda crazy, really...it's not as if folks are saying that Hunter's clean as a whistle, quite the opposite. And I don't hear people saying that they're cool with the way family members of politicians and celebrities of all sorts can trade on their names...

But show me where the politician has done someone an actual favor they wouldn't have done if it weren't for the 'bribe', if such...and I think we'll all say hold the politician to account...right?

But show me the actual evidence the politician was involved.
Not some claptrap that we are supposed to imagine means more...

That's just a partisan hit job.

...the FBI is working with the laptop that was turned over to the FBI before the media received any copies.

The media outlets acknowledge that they can't verify ALL of the emails, but they can verify MANY, either forensically or via others in the email chains.
NYT & WP report that they have verified many of the e-mails.

Even NBC verifies that much.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I am sure that the FBI has some pretty good experts - but it is NOT clear that the evidence they have in the case of the laptop would be sufficient to actually determine authenticity of each and every piece of data on the laptop. This is especially true when the chain of custody has been broken - and it is not entirely clear who had the laptop before it ended up in the repair shop.

Sometimes to evaluate the authenticity you need more information than just the files present - you might need collaborating documents elsewhere that allow you to determine whether or not something had been modified during any possession you do not have an actual record of.

Emails, for example have both source and destination places, and at least two copies of the email that have been stored at each end of the transmission process (sender's outbox and receiver's inbox). So you can see if the metadata and contents agree. That may not be possible with this laptop - because you may have NO copies of the data within. So then you need to have other information to determine if the data MIGHT be untouched or not.

So your comparison is quite bogus. Apples to oranges.

exactly...but because it can't be disproven, must be true according to these bozos...'cause, Rudy's such an honest and reliable fella...

It's kinda crazy, really...it's not as if folks are saying that Hunter's clean as a whistle, quite the opposite. And I don't hear people saying that they're cool with the way family members of politicians and celebrities of all sorts can trade on their names...

But show me where the politician has done someone an actual favor they wouldn't have done if it weren't for the 'bribe', if such...and I think we'll all say hold the politician to account...right?

But show me the actual evidence the politician was involved.
Not some claptrap that we are supposed to imagine means more...

That's just a partisan hit job.

...the FBI is working with the laptop that was turned over to the FBI before the media received any copies.

The media outlets acknowledge that they can't verify ALL of the emails, but they can verify MANY, either forensically or via others in the email chains.
NYT & WP report that they have verified many of the e-mails.

Even NBC verifies that much.

https://nypost.com/2019/10/08/oh-s-t-th ... aptop/amp/

[a fan]

...the FBI is working with the laptop that was turned over to the FBI before the media received any copies.

The media outlets acknowledge that they can't verify ALL of the emails

So in other words, exactly what we said. The contents of the laptop have NOT been verified.

I love that CNBC is clutching pearls. As if we don't all know that it was a corrupt BS no-show fake job in Ukraine for Hunter.

Pity that you and your team don't care about this kind of blatant legal corruption, don't you think, Old Salt?

Oh well. Maybe someday, you'll change your mind.

[old salt]

...the FBI is working with the laptop that was turned over to the FBI before the media received any copies.

The media outlets acknowledge that they can't verify ALL of the emails

So in other words, exactly what we said. The contents of the laptop have NOT been verified.

I love that CNBC is clutching pearls. As if we don't all know that it was a corrupt BS no-show fake job in Ukraine for Hunter.

Pity that you and your team don't care about this kind of blatant legal corruption, don't you think, Old Salt?

Oh well. Maybe someday, you'll change your mind.

That's an irrelevant & disingenuous dodge to confuse the issue & cast doubt on anything that's retrieved from the laptop.
Not every email needs to be verified. Not every email matters. What matters is whether or not enough of the emails can be verified forensically or by other email users to establish the facts relevant to the federal investigation.

[a fan]

...the FBI is working with the laptop that was turned over to the FBI before the media received any copies.

The media outlets acknowledge that they can't verify ALL of the emails

So in other words, exactly what we said. The contents of the laptop have NOT been verified.

I love that CNBC is clutching pearls. As if we don't all know that it was a corrupt BS no-show fake job in Ukraine for Hunter.

Pity that you and your team don't care about this kind of blatant legal corruption, don't you think, Old Salt?

Oh well. Maybe someday, you'll change your mind.

That's an irrelevant & disingenuous dodge to confuse the issue & cast doubt on anything that's retrieved from the laptop.
Not every email needs to be verified. Not every email matters. What matters is whether or not enough of the emails can be verified forensically or by other email users to establish the facts relevant to the federal investigation.

You’re assuming there’s illegal stuff on the laptop. Because of course you are. He’s a democrat, and must be investigated immediately. Show me the man, and I’ll show you the crime, right?

And to help you out? I was simply reacting to your FoxNation nonsense about some media not running the laptop story because of some vast conspiracy.

Nope. The whole story stinks to high heaven. A computer store owner….out of nowhere….gives a politician a piece of property that doesn’t belong to him?

What kind of a dishonest pos does something like that ? But you and your team, of course, trust all of it without question.

When do we get to go after the agents in charge of investigating Biden? Or do only Republicans get that service, free of charge?

[MDlaxfan76]

...the FBI is working with the laptop that was turned over to the FBI before the media received any copies.

The media outlets acknowledge that they can't verify ALL of the emails

So in other words, exactly what we said. The contents of the laptop have NOT been verified.

I love that CNBC is clutching pearls. As if we don't all know that it was a corrupt BS no-show fake job in Ukraine for Hunter.

Pity that you and your team don't care about this kind of blatant legal corruption, don't you think, Old Salt?

Oh well. Maybe someday, you'll change your mind.

That's an irrelevant & disingenuous dodge to confuse the issue & cast doubt on anything that's retrieved from the laptop.
Not every email needs to be verified. Not every email matters. What matters is whether or not enough of the emails can be verified forensically or by other email users to establish the facts relevant to the federal investigation.

If facts can be verified as authoritatively accurate and true, by other means, certainly do so. But what "investigation" are you imagining here is "relevant", Salty?

What's the crime? That Hunter Biden didn't properly report some of his income?
Probably didn't...so what? Fine him the way we should anyone else.
Did he do so in a pattern of egregious tax fraud? ok, maybe some time too.

But so what?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technolo ... -examined/

The vast majority of the data — and most of the nearly 129,000 emails it contained — could not be verified by either of the two security experts who reviewed the data for The Post. Neither found clear evidence of tampering in their examinations, but some of the records that might have helped verify contents were not available for analysis, they said. The Post was able in some instances to find documents from other sources that matched content on the laptop that the experts were not able to assess.

Among the reasons for the inconclusive findings was sloppy handling of the data, which damaged some records. The experts found the data had been repeatedly accessed and copied by people other than Hunter Biden over nearly three years. The MacBook itself is now in the hands of the FBI, which is investigating whether Hunter Biden properly reported income from business dealings.

But you better be able to verify any crime with evidence other than from this laptop, for all the reasons a fan and others describe, else we might well be asking to look at the investigators and their motivations, and, more importantly, their "sources"...Guiliani and this repair shop owner.

[youthathletics]

There are probably a bunch of laptops running around that have been intentionally planted....meanwhile, the one that matters is sitting at the bottom of the ocean or never existed in the first place. Probably used the same App the Taliban used to communicate.

If one believes Hunter's shenanigan's are all legit business deals...well, then, you must also agree Jared's were as well.

[a fan]

If one believes Hunter's shenanigan's are all legit business deals...well, then, you must also agree Jared's were as well.

That's my entire point to OS......he had (and has) excuses at the ready for Kush and Jr's obviously unethical dealings...

..but at the same time, he's clearly all over the Hunter laptop story. Clutch pearls over the Biden family corruption, while denying and problems with TeamTrump.

Gee, I can't figure out why our country is falling apart.

i agree with you, YA.....obviously both Hunter and Kush/Jr. are cut from the same sh*tty, corrupt cloth. A pox on both their families.

[Typical Lax Dad]

There are probably a bunch of laptops running around that have been intentionally planted....meanwhile, the one that matters is sitting at the bottom of the ocean or never existed in the first place. Probably used the same App the Taliban used to communicate.

If one believed JARED’s shenanigan's WERE all legit business deals...well, then, you must also agree HUNTER’s were as well.

I fixed it. Your syntax was off.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Yet while the countries (and the people who live there) that were supposedly going to benefit from the Abraham Fund never saw any money materialize, Kushner and Mnuchin would soon be raking in the cash. As the Times notes, Mnuchin’s newly formed commercial enterprise “received $500 million commitments from the Emiratis, Kuwaitis and Qataris,” plus $1 billion from the Saudi sovereign wealth fund, within a few short months of his time at the Treasury Department ending. And while Kushner took slightly longer to get things off the ground, his new firm “reached an agreement for a $2 billion investment from the Saudis six months after he left government.” And while we would never suggest anything about this looks less than totally aboveboard, others seem to believe it might be!

[old salt]

...the FBI is working with the laptop that was turned over to the FBI before the media received any copies.

The media outlets acknowledge that they can't verify ALL of the emails

So in other words, exactly what we said. The contents of the laptop have NOT been verified.

I love that CNBC is clutching pearls. As if we don't all know that it was a corrupt BS no-show fake job in Ukraine for Hunter.

Pity that you and your team don't care about this kind of blatant legal corruption, don't you think, Old Salt?

Oh well. Maybe someday, you'll change your mind.

That's an irrelevant & disingenuous dodge to confuse the issue & cast doubt on anything that's retrieved from the laptop.
Not every email needs to be verified. Not every email matters. What matters is whether or not enough of the emails can be verified forensically or by other email users to establish the facts relevant to the federal investigation.

If facts can be verified as authoritatively accurate and true, by other means, certainly do so. But what "investigation" are you imagining here is "relevant", Salty?

What's the crime? That Hunter Biden didn't properly report some of his income?
Probably didn't...so what? Fine him the way we should anyone else.
Did he do so in a pattern of egregious tax fraud? ok, maybe some time too.

But so what?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technolo ... -examined/

The vast majority of the data — and most of the nearly 129,000 emails it contained — could not be verified by either of the two security experts who reviewed the data for The Post. Neither found clear evidence of tampering in their examinations, but some of the records that might have helped verify contents were not available for analysis, they said. The Post was able in some instances to find documents from other sources that matched content on the laptop that the experts were not able to assess.

Among the reasons for the inconclusive findings was sloppy handling of the data, which damaged some records. The experts found the data had been repeatedly accessed and copied by people other than Hunter Biden over nearly three years. The MacBook itself is now in the hands of the FBI, which is investigating whether Hunter Biden properly reported income from business dealings.

But you better be able to verify any crime with evidence other than from this laptop, for all the reasons a fan and others describe, else we might well be asking to look at the investigators and their motivations, and, more importantly, their "sources"...Guiliani and this repair shop owner.

Hey you two -- I'm not makin' this stuff up. I never predicted that Hunter would be investigated.
I gave you links from CBS & NBC that say he is under federal investigation.
Don't blame me because you don't like what's happening.

[a fan]

Hey you two -- I'm not makin' this stuff up. I never predicted that Hunter would be investigated.
I gave you links from CBS & NBC that say he is under federal investigation.
Don't blame me because you don't like what's happening.

I DO like what's happening. I'm not responding to the investigation itself. I'm SICK of all this horse-hockey Wash DC corruption.

And how F'ing bad does it look that Hunter was playing this game in Ukraine, of all the countries in the world to pick for his con?


I hope they find illegal stuff. I hope they throw away the key on the POS.

I'm sick of these do-nothing politicians who don't understand that they serve us. And when we vote one out? He's replaced by the next low life.


And the best they come up with? "Oh, my corruption isn't as bad as the last guy".


To reiterate----I was just responding to your claims that the media buried the laptop story before the election. Nope. The whole crazy story sounds entirely made up to any reasonable person. THAT is why they didn't run it.

And now the computer store owner came out with a book. I still don't understand why he's not under arrest for theft. The whole thing is gross.

[old salt]

That's your solution -- arrest the shop owner who tried to return the abandoned laptop, then notified the FBI that he had something that might be evidence in an emerging investigation. As the Hunter saga became a news item, he might have feared for his safety in holding such evidence.

You wanna blame the guy who called the cops. Classic liberal reaction.

[a fan]

That's your solution -- arrest the shop owner who tried to return the abandoned laptop, then notified the FBI that he had something that might be evidence. As Hunter became a news item, he might have feared for his safety in holding such evidence.

You wanna blame the guy who called the cops. Classic liberal reflex.

Where did you come up with that? Playing dumb again?

I don't have a problem with him giving the thing to the FBI.....although that's, to put it mildly....weird. What prompted that? Why was he nosing around in a customer's emails and files?

But...why did he give copies to Rudy Giuliani? What right did he have to do that?

How was that legal, let aloe ethical?