Washington College 2024

[FellowGoose]

Big one tonight, if they split this weekend, this will be the win. Ithaca has our starting goalie from last year in net, so as long as we get possessions and put the ball on cage, we have a great shot at winning. Gonna predict 12-8 shore.

This subtle chirp at a former Shoremen did not go unnoticed. Aged real well too. 19 saves.

[ChopMan23]

Big one tonight, if they split this weekend, this will be the win. Ithaca has our starting goalie from last year in net, so as long as we get possessions and put the ball on cage, we have a great shot at winning. Gonna predict 12-8 shore.

This subtle chirp at a former Shoremen did not go unnoticed. Aged real well too. 19 saves.

cant let em off easy! Great game from him tonight.

[laxgeek37]

Big one tonight, if they split this weekend, this will be the win. Ithaca has our starting goalie from last year in net, so as long as we get possessions and put the ball on cage, we have a great shot at winning. Gonna predict 12-8 shore.

This subtle chirp at a former Shoremen did not go unnoticed. Aged real well too. 19 saves.

Tuned in tonight:
Very glad to see a former shoremen having success with his extra year. Looking down the barrel of a grim spring. Some strong young players but going to be another year of building. Remember this was a full rebuild no matter how you look at it

[veryoldgoose]

Big one tonight, if they split this weekend, this will be the win. Ithaca has our starting goalie from last year in net, so as long as we get possessions and put the ball on cage, we have a great shot at winning. Gonna predict 12-8 shore.

This subtle chirp at a former Shoremen did not go unnoticed. Aged real well too. 19 saves.

Tuned in tonight:
Very glad to see a former shoremen having success with his extra year. Looking down the barrel of a grim spring. Some strong young players but going to be another year of building. Remember this was a full rebuild no matter how you look at it

Also tuned in. Your last sentence is where we diverge in opinion. It didn't have to be a full rebuild year. In year 2, Shirk took his team to the Centennial Championship and NCAAs. In year three, his team was winning NCAA games. Gettysburg didn't need at least a three year rebuild once their HOF coach retired. Yes, this team has had some growing pains, but they are 1-5 with some horrid losses. They might only win 1-2 more games this season - less wins than Shirk had in his first year. Again, how long can "rebuilds" take when the previous coach didn't take nearly this long, nor other coaches in the same conference.

To put some empircal evidence behind it didn't have to be a full rebuild year - today's goal scorers by class: 1 freshman, 1 sophomore, 4 juniors, and 2 seniors. This is not a team, in this coaching staff's third year, running only freshman and sophomores. The well we need 4 years isn't an excuse when upperclassmen are contributing at these levels. Plus the team's best player by far is a junior.

[westernbestern]

Big one tonight, if they split this weekend, this will be the win. Ithaca has our starting goalie from last year in net, so as long as we get possessions and put the ball on cage, we have a great shot at winning. Gonna predict 12-8 shore.

This subtle chirp at a former Shoremen did not go unnoticed. Aged real well too. 19 saves.

Tuned in tonight:
Very glad to see a former shoremen having success with his extra year. Looking down the barrel of a grim spring. Some strong young players but going to be another year of building. Remember this was a full rebuild no matter how you look at it

Also tuned in. Your last sentence is where we diverge in opinion. It didn't have to be a full rebuild year. In year 2, Shirk took his team to the Centennial Championship and NCAAs. In year three, his team was winning NCAA games. Gettysburg didn't need at least a three year rebuild once their HOF coach retired. Yes, this team has had some growing pains, but they are 1-5 with some horrid losses. They might only win 1-2 more games this season - less wins than Shirk had in his first year. Again, how long can "rebuilds" take when the previous coach didn't take nearly this long, nor other coaches in the same conference.

To put some empircal evidence behind it didn't have to be a full rebuild year - today's goal scorers by class: 1 freshman, 1 sophomore, 4 juniors, and 2 seniors. This is not a team, in this coaching staff's third year, running only freshman and sophomores. The well we need 4 years isn't an excuse when upperclassmen are contributing at these levels. Plus the team's best player by far is a junior.

I still think you have unrealistic expectations given all the surrounding variables. Comparing Shirk and Nostrant is pointless, and trying to compare Gettysburg and WAC is loony town. Gettysburg is leaps and bounds above Washington College in every aspect of things. Shirk was 2-12 his last 2 seasons, why do you think that happened?

Washington College is an institution at its core that is struggling and it is reflected my ALL of their sports being mediocre (outside of 1 team Mens Soccer recently). The last time I was in Chestertown it was like a ghost town. The education at the college is mediocre. The college is over priced. What do you expect?

I'm not totally sold on Nostrant but its going to take me another 2 seasons to make up my mind as the rebuild continues.

[veryoldgoose]

Also tuned in. Your last sentence is where we diverge in opinion. It didn't have to be a full rebuild year. In year 2, Shirk took his team to the Centennial Championship and NCAAs. In year three, his team was winning NCAA games. Gettysburg didn't need at least a three year rebuild once their HOF coach retired. Yes, this team has had some growing pains, but they are 1-5 with some horrid losses. They might only win 1-2 more games this season - less wins than Shirk had in his first year. Again, how long can "rebuilds" take when the previous coach didn't take nearly this long, nor other coaches in the same conference.

To put some empircal evidence behind it didn't have to be a full rebuild year - today's goal scorers by class: 1 freshman, 1 sophomore, 4 juniors, and 2 seniors. This is not a team, in this coaching staff's third year, running only freshman and sophomores. The well we need 4 years isn't an excuse when upperclassmen are contributing at these levels. Plus the team's best player by far is a junior.

I still think you have unrealistic expectations given all the surrounding variables. Comparing Shirk and Nostrant is pointless, and trying to compare Gettysburg and WAC is loony town. Gettysburg is leaps and bounds above Washington College in every aspect of things. Shirk was 2-12 his last 2 seasons, why do you think that happened?

Washington College is an institution at its core that is struggling and it is reflected my ALL of their sports being mediocre (outside of 1 team Mens Soccer recently). The last time I was in Chestertown it was like a ghost town. The education at the college is mediocre. The college is over priced. What do you expect?

I'm not totally sold on Nostrant but its going to take me another 2 seasons to make up my mind as the rebuild continues.

I appreciate your views. Chestertown is Chestertown, and if you had ever been to Chestertown in the 80s, 90s, or 2000s, you would admit the current town is much nicer than it used to be. Other Centennial schools also don't have the most exciting towns, yet they have success. Gettysburg isn't much nicer as a town, although admittedly there is probably 20-30% more to do. Carlisle, PA also is not the height of college town excitement. So the Chestertown excuse can only go so far. I completely agree the constant change of presidents at WAC hasn't helped, and has affirmatively hurt the lacrosse program. But the new scholarship guaranteeing at least 30k to each college applicant with a GPA over 3.4 can be a huge game changer - if used correctly.

What I disagree with is waiting another two years. If Nostrant isn't the solution, we shouldn't dig the hole deeper. The other finalists for this job against Nostrant were younger coaches with strong D1 experience and can speak to the current generation of player. Why didn't Shirk succeed at the end of his tenure? My opinion is that the constant change in adminstration and withdrawl of internal support for obviously hurt the men's lacrosse program. What also hurt in my view was Shirk's coaching style was not as viable with the current generation of players. Not saying that as a shot to either Shirk or this generation of player - just different times and different styles. What worked in 2011 didn't work in 2019 anymore.

It seems clear from everyone who has reported in this thread or knows what is going on in Chestertown is that Coach Nostrant comes from the same style as Shirk. The reports in this thread from current/former Nostrant players and a recruit's dad have shared concerning stories, if true. But ultimately, his style might succeed or not succeed. What I don't think we, as alumni can do, is to just wait and see another 2 years if this doesn't get turned around soon. There were some extremely talented, excellent coaches who wanted this job to re-energize this program in a way that might speak to the current generation of players better. My only view is why not give one of them a shot if this isn't working year 3 or 4? I will say it again - I want nothing more than Coach Nostrant to succeed and WAC to be back kicking ass. Whoever is the coach to do that, I am fully on board. But I also don't think we should dig holes deeper than necessary.

[FellowGoose]

Big one tonight, if they split this weekend, this will be the win. Ithaca has our starting goalie from last year in net, so as long as we get possessions and put the ball on cage, we have a great shot at winning. Gonna predict 12-8 shore.

This subtle chirp at a former Shoremen did not go unnoticed. Aged real well too. 19 saves.

Tuned in tonight:
Very glad to see a former shoremen having success with his extra year. Looking down the barrel of a grim spring. Some strong young players but going to be another year of building. Remember this was a full rebuild no matter how you look at it

Also tuned in. Your last sentence is where we diverge in opinion. It didn't have to be a full rebuild year. In year 2, Shirk took his team to the Centennial Championship and NCAAs. In year three, his team was winning NCAA games. Gettysburg didn't need at least a three year rebuild once their HOF coach retired. Yes, this team has had some growing pains, but they are 1-5 with some horrid losses. They might only win 1-2 more games this season - less wins than Shirk had in his first year. Again, how long can "rebuilds" take when the previous coach didn't take nearly this long, nor other coaches in the same conference.

To put some empircal evidence behind it didn't have to be a full rebuild year - today's goal scorers by class: 1 freshman, 1 sophomore, 4 juniors, and 2 seniors. This is not a team, in this coaching staff's third year, running only freshman and sophomores. The well we need 4 years isn't an excuse when upperclassmen are contributing at these levels. Plus the team's best player by far is a junior.

I agree with my goose companion. They graduated a senior group that had over 400 combined games started/played. The coaching failed to capitalize on the amount of game experience the team had. There was never a rebuild, the players were there. White, Domenach, Parry, Winters (Still there), Cleffish, McFalls, Brennan (still there), Temple had all been playing since there first years on campus.

[westernbestern]

Big one tonight, if they split this weekend, this will be the win. Ithaca has our starting goalie from last year in net, so as long as we get possessions and put the ball on cage, we have a great shot at winning. Gonna predict 12-8 shore.

This subtle chirp at a former Shoremen did not go unnoticed. Aged real well too. 19 saves.

Tuned in tonight:
Very glad to see a former shoremen having success with his extra year. Looking down the barrel of a grim spring. Some strong young players but going to be another year of building. Remember this was a full rebuild no matter how you look at it

Also tuned in. Your last sentence is where we diverge in opinion. It didn't have to be a full rebuild year. In year 2, Shirk took his team to the Centennial Championship and NCAAs. In year three, his team was winning NCAA games. Gettysburg didn't need at least a three year rebuild once their HOF coach retired. Yes, this team has had some growing pains, but they are 1-5 with some horrid losses. They might only win 1-2 more games this season - less wins than Shirk had in his first year. Again, how long can "rebuilds" take when the previous coach didn't take nearly this long, nor other coaches in the same conference.

To put some empircal evidence behind it didn't have to be a full rebuild year - today's goal scorers by class: 1 freshman, 1 sophomore, 4 juniors, and 2 seniors. This is not a team, in this coaching staff's third year, running only freshman and sophomores. The well we need 4 years isn't an excuse when upperclassmen are contributing at these levels. Plus the team's best player by far is a junior.

I agree with my goose companion. They graduated a senior group that had over 400 combined games started/played. The coaching failed to capitalize on the amount of game experience the team had. There was never a rebuild, the players were there. White, Domenach, Parry, Winters (Still there), Cleffish, McFalls, Brennan (still there), Temple had all been playing since there first years on campus.

What you just said here is exactly why I believe the team is down this year. Last season was similar to the pre-Covid years. .500 has been the standard since that 2014 group.
2015: 6-10
2016: 7-8
2017: 9-7
2018: 8-7
2019: 7-9
*2023: 8-9

This team is an almost completely new dynamic considering the names you listed above who are now gone. I’ve watched most of the games this year and the personnel has changed almost every game, whether that is due to injuries or not, that tells me the coaching staff is trying to figure out who the right guys are. But with conference play approaching, experimental time needs to end.

When it comes to the school. My experience in the 2000’s was vastly different from what I understand goes on at the school now. The 30k scholarship sounds nice but tuition continues to be raised every year so it doesn’t make a huge difference. On the college website, cost of Attendance is over $77k. So with 30k scholarship only, it costs 47k. According to google the average cost of tuition after aid is 31k, that’s too much. 20-25k is what it needs to be in order to steal recruits from the more competitive D3 schools.

We all want the same thing here, I just think it’s an uphill battle for any coach.

[ChopMan23]

Big one tonight, if they split this weekend, this will be the win. Ithaca has our starting goalie from last year in net, so as long as we get possessions and put the ball on cage, we have a great shot at winning. Gonna predict 12-8 shore.

This subtle chirp at a former Shoremen did not go unnoticed. Aged real well too. 19 saves.

Tuned in tonight:
Very glad to see a former shoremen having success with his extra year. Looking down the barrel of a grim spring. Some strong young players but going to be another year of building. Remember this was a full rebuild no matter how you look at it

Also tuned in. Your last sentence is where we diverge in opinion. It didn't have to be a full rebuild year. In year 2, Shirk took his team to the Centennial Championship and NCAAs. In year three, his team was winning NCAA games. Gettysburg didn't need at least a three year rebuild once their HOF coach retired. Yes, this team has had some growing pains, but they are 1-5 with some horrid losses. They might only win 1-2 more games this season - less wins than Shirk had in his first year. Again, how long can "rebuilds" take when the previous coach didn't take nearly this long, nor other coaches in the same conference.

To put some empircal evidence behind it didn't have to be a full rebuild year - today's goal scorers by class: 1 freshman, 1 sophomore, 4 juniors, and 2 seniors. This is not a team, in this coaching staff's third year, running only freshman and sophomores. The well we need 4 years isn't an excuse when upperclassmen are contributing at these levels. Plus the team's best player by far is a junior.

I agree with my goose companion. They graduated a senior group that had over 400 combined games started/played. The coaching failed to capitalize on the amount of game experience the team had. There was never a rebuild, the players were there. White, Domenach, Parry, Winters (Still there), Cleffish, McFalls, Brennan (still there), Temple had all been playing since there first years on campus.

What you just said here is exactly why I believe the team is down this year. Last season was similar to the pre-Covid years. .500 has been the standard since that 2014 group.
2015: 6-10
2016: 7-8
2017: 9-7
2018: 8-7
2019: 7-9
*2023: 8-9

This team is an almost completely new dynamic considering the names you listed above who are now gone. I’ve watched most of the games this year and the personnel has changed almost every game, whether that is due to injuries or not, that tells me the coaching staff is trying to figure out who the right guys are. But with conference play approaching, experimental time needs to end.

When it comes to the school. My experience in the 2000’s was vastly different from what I understand goes on at the school now. The 30k scholarship sounds nice but tuition continues to be raised every year so it doesn’t make a huge difference. On the college website, cost of Attendance is over $77k. So with 30k scholarship only, it costs 47k. According to google the average cost of tuition after aid is 31k, that’s too much. 20-25k is what it needs to be in order to steal recruits from the more competitive D3 schools.

We all want the same thing here, I just think it’s an uphill battle for any coach.

As I may have been the one to start this conversation after the eastern game, I just want to circle back to what I meant by the original comment, and how I believe it has lead to where we are now. As Western Pointed out, 2018 & 2019 had some players on the roster. The previous staff could not get it done, which is why I think that was the pivotal moment where we needed a change and it didn’t happen. Which led to a downward spiral leading into Covid, which has crushed the school, leading to less talent coming in. The change finally happened, but not sure now if it was too late or not. I think if WC really wanted to save the program, a change would have happened in 2018/2019. 2019 might have been one of the best rosters since we won the CC in 14. Go back and look at box scores and the schedule and you probably won’t believe me, but the fact that team only went 7-9, shows that the previous staff was not the ones to get it done either. I think this has now lead to a major problem for recruiting present day. What recruit would look at the last 10 years of results, and honestly want to come here, when there are so many programs growing in the D3 landscape now. I know the current staff is trying to take it back to the JB Clarke days of bringing in 20+ guys, but I think those days of admissions are far gone, the school just doesn’t seem to care.

[laxgeek37]

Good points but Nostrant took over a team that was 0-6 2020 going prior to conference play, and then a 2-6 team in 2021. Yes it was Covid, yes there were obstacles, but a team that won 2 games in 14 games over 2 seasons

[SixBySix]

What you just said here is exactly why I believe the team is down this year. Last season was similar to the pre-Covid years. .500 has been the standard since that 2014 group.

2014 is an interesting year to look at, because though admittedly, I am not the closest follower of WAC, I watch them play at least a few times a year and I have noticed a huge shift in the style of play since then. WAC used to play like Tufts does now--extremely aggressive in transition, making teams uncomfortable to sub. They would not only push the break, but then take you straight to the cage in the 4v4 and make you figure out a slide on the fly. I think Hunter Nowicki played more on-field minutes than any midfielder I can ever remember watching. Englehart was a terror in transition as well. Trapp was taking a shot after at least one of every three face-off wins.

Maybe they just didn't have the players to take so many risks in the years since, but even before the coaching changes that style noticeably dissipated. When we were scouting them, I used to joke that a WAC player had never met a shot he didn't like, while today they play more or less like everyone else. I'm sure many here will have much more insight, but thought I would throw it out there for discussion.

[Shoregouzer58]

Big one tonight, if they split this weekend, this will be the win. Ithaca has our starting goalie from last year in net, so as long as we get possessions and put the ball on cage, we have a great shot at winning. Gonna predict 12-8 shore.

This subtle chirp at a former Shoremen did not go unnoticed. Aged real well too. 19 saves.

cant let em off easy! Great game from him tonight.

Hey Chopman. Last night could be a good example of what “knowing ball” is. Corrigan is literally a sport psychology grad student and rent in his head is pretty pricey, especially in this housing market. You are right though, it doesn’t change the takes on the state of the program. But watching the games and knowing the skill sets of players beyond statistics is so important when making predictions and analyzing games in hindsight. There have been players coming through WAC that can make an impact and recognizing them is critical when making takes such as this one quoted above. Even if they aren’t optimally used. Hate to divulge the current conversation but I wanted to wait to make my response.

[ChopMan23]

Big one tonight, if they split this weekend, this will be the win. Ithaca has our starting goalie from last year in net, so as long as we get possessions and put the ball on cage, we have a great shot at winning. Gonna predict 12-8 shore.

This subtle chirp at a former Shoremen did not go unnoticed. Aged real well too. 19 saves.

cant let em off easy! Great game from him tonight.

Hey Chopman. Last night could be a good example of what “knowing ball” is. Corrigan is literally a sport psychology grad student and rent in his head is pretty pricey, especially in this housing market. You are right though, it doesn’t change the takes on the state of the program. But watching the games and knowing the skill sets of players beyond statistics is so important when making predictions and analyzing games in hindsight. There have been players coming through WAC that can make an impact and recognizing them is critical when making takes such as this one quoted above. Even if they aren’t optimally used. Hate to divulge the current conversation but I wanted to wait to make my response.

Was poking fun at a former player in enemy uniform, not that deep. Ithaca is a great program, glad he is succeeding in his grad year. Not sure what the rest of that rant has to do with anything though.

[ChopMan23]

What you just said here is exactly why I believe the team is down this year. Last season was similar to the pre-Covid years. .500 has been the standard since that 2014 group.

2014 is an interesting year to look at, because though admittedly, I am not the closest follower of WAC, I watch them play at least a few times a year and I have noticed a huge shift in the style of play since then. WAC used to play like Tufts does now--extremely aggressive in transition, making teams uncomfortable to sub. They would not only push the break, but then take you straight to the cage in the 4v4 and make you figure out a slide on the fly. I think Hunter Nowicki played more on-field minutes than any midfielder I can ever remember watching. Englehart was a terror in transition as well. Trapp was taking a shot after at least one of every three face-off wins.

Maybe they just didn't have the players to take so many risks in the years since, but even before the coaching changes that style noticeably dissipated. When we were scouting them, I used to joke that a WAC player had never met a shot he didn't like, while today they play more or less like everyone else. I'm sure many here will have much more insight, but thought I would throw it out there for discussion.

Nowicki was one of the best D3 midfielders i have ever seen play. A true throw back, hard nosed, dawg of a middie. Could sling it with either hand, and could shake defenders out of their boots.

You are spot on with your take on transition. Shirk was not a fan of pushing transition, which I think hurt the team in a lot of games that were close over his tenure. Teams like W&L, Dickinson, F&M a few years back, thrived in transition and they have had so much success in the last ten years. I think especially in D3, pushing transition (successfully) is how a lot of the top teams have remained successful. Seems like it is slightly changing since the new staff was brought in, but I could be wrong.

[LaxPundit07]

Big one tonight, if they split this weekend, this will be the win. Ithaca has our starting goalie from last year in net, so as long as we get possessions and put the ball on cage, we have a great shot at winning. Gonna predict 12-8 shore.

This subtle chirp at a former Shoremen did not go unnoticed. Aged real well too. 19 saves.

cant let em off easy! Great game from him tonight.

Hey Chopman. Last night could be a good example of what “knowing ball” is. Corrigan is literally a sport psychology grad student and rent in his head is pretty pricey, especially in this housing market. You are right though, it doesn’t change the takes on the state of the program. But watching the games and knowing the skill sets of players beyond statistics is so important when making predictions and analyzing games in hindsight. There have been players coming through WAC that can make an impact and recognizing them is critical when making takes such as this one quoted above. Even if they aren’t optimally used. Hate to divulge the current conversation but I wanted to wait to make my response.

Yea, Chopman poked the bear there. Unnecessarily. With a dude who kept the Shoremen in many games in recent years, despite having no help around him and needing to stand on his head. And having a family name whose roots run deep there. Good for Corrigan. Just think, if the WAC administration and board hadn’t been so incompetent over the past 10-15 years, Corrigan could be a grad student at WAC getting his masters in their former psychology program and using his 5th year to play for the shore. Yet another consequence of the piss poor leadership in Chestertown the last two decades. I am not even sure why my masters still hangs on my wall in the office. A degree from a mythical place. But I digress, good for Corrigan last night. Prayers and positive thoughts go to his family as his mother battles brain cancer and recovery from surgery. He must be a tough kid to stand in there given the circumstances.

[LaxPundit07]

Not to mention we got beat by Tommy Pearce, one of Chestertown’s own. Did we even contact him during any of the recent coaching searches?

[ChopMan23]

Didn't know fanlax was a safe space, my bad. Was a light chirp, nothing more than that. Heard Pearce wanted the job, but no idea if he was in the running.

[veryoldgoose]

Didn't know fanlax was a safe space, my bad. Was a light chirp, nothing more than that. Heard Pearce wanted the job, but no idea if he was in the running.

He was one of a crop of younger coaches that were interested but a handful of alums made clear to the school the only choice was Nostrant and not to waste time with anyone else. The crop of coaches that were never truly considered had some real talent now succeeding elsewhere.

[LaxPundit07]

I don’t think anyone is claiming it to be a safe space. Which is why I have no problem saying most of the older alums on this board won more games in one season than you won in your entire career (based on you being a recent graduate). So perhaps lay off the chirping and find a way to make the program better like we all are/have been doing.

Cheers! And a happy St Patrick’s Day to Charlie Moloney who is most assuredly looking down on us with a Natty Boh in hand!

[ChopMan23]

I don’t think anyone is claiming it to be a safe space. Which is why I have no problem saying most of the older alums on this board won more games in one season than you won in your entire career (based on you being a recent graduate). So perhaps lay off the chirping and find a way to make the program better like we all are/have been doing.

Cheers! And a happy St Patrick’s Day to Charlie Moloney who is most assuredly looking down on us with a Natty Boh in hand!

Made 1 chirp. WAC thread is a no fun zone, noted. Let’s continue to just beat a dead horse like we’ve been doing since 2017.