Education post HS: College, Trade School, Military, ???

[HooDat]

curious what happens when/if you factor out the business school and engineering school students.

I too am a big supporter of the concept of a liberal arts education for all the reasons you list.

But I suspect that if you adjusted the results for those two major tracts (both arguably high-end trade school) the returns would be very different.

[Typical Lax Dad]

curious what happens when/if you factor out the business school and engineering school students.

I too am a big supporter of the concept of a liberal arts education for all the reasons you list.

But I suspect that if you adjusted the results for those two major tracts (both arguably high-end trade school) the returns would be very different.

My guess is the return would be lower.....and if you take out Art History and Sociology majors, the returns would be higher.....

https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary ... ci20-3.pdf

i don't know about you but I am telling every kid that I know to go to college.... if they have no interest, then go to a trade school but whatever you do don't try to do it on just a high school diploma. Yes you can be successful, whatever that means, but it is a lot harder.

[HooDat]

i don't know about you but I am telling every kid that I know to go to college.... if they have no interest, then go to a trade school but whatever you do don't try to do it on just a high school diploma. Yes you can be successful, whatever that means, but it is a lot harder.

Yes to all this. My only added point is that if you are going to college go for a reason. If you are going to party your butt off for 4-5 years, well... that's a very expensive party.

[Typical Lax Dad]

i don't know about you but I am telling every kid that I know to go to college.... if they have no interest, then go to a trade school but whatever you do don't try to do it on just a high school diploma. Yes you can be successful, whatever that means, but it is a lot harder.

Yes to all this. My only added point is that if you are going to college go for a reason. If you are going to party your butt off for 4-5 years, well... that's a very expensive party.

I believe the kids that go to school to drink and party are not the average students. I have kids that went to two completely different types of schools. One liberal arts with a high pedigree and the other a business school with a reputation for producing practical students. Having met many of their friends at both places, not a whole lot of "we are here to party on daddy's dime"... but I am sure there is some of that. I did have a friend with a kid that went to a college in Boston..... he had some of that partying going on until he woke up. Doing fine and will be gainfully employed.

[Farfromgeneva]

This is a great joke from Neal Brennan. From a terrific special on Netflix that’s maybe 2yrs old called Three mics (gets into his mental health a good bit and is very interesting concept overall)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aczcjP0LfNI

[youthathletics]

How grad schools became the hidden culprit behind America's student-debt crisis

[youthathletics]

Interesting article I came across while scrolling through Twitter this morning.

University Has Changed, Parents

Dear Parents: University has changed.
"The College seemed more like a Momentum-inspired NGO that spreads the gospel of wokeness than a centre of academic excellence."...

...Undoubtedly, the student world of 2019 is a baffling one for anybody embedded in the ideas of the Enlightenment. One might expect students to go to university to learn, to debate and be exposed to different opinions. Not anymore: now, only one opinion counts in this strange pseudo-world of fake, progressivist values. One ideology has been merged with one morality. All other views are excluded, and the result is a closed culture.

[HooDat]

Yes you can be successful, whatever that means

we, as a country, need to be re-thinking what this means.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Yes you can be successful, whatever that means

we, as a country, need to be re-thinking what this means.

Being success is in the eye of the person. I don't need the government defining what is "successful".

[HooDat]

Yes you can be successful, whatever that means

we, as a country, need to be re-thinking what this means.

Being success is in the eye of the person. I don't need the government defining what is "successful".

yes, I meant individually and I guess also collectively - but certainly in contrast to having the gov or the media define it for us.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Yes you can be successful, whatever that means

we, as a country, need to be re-thinking what this means.

Being success is in the eye of the person. I don't need the government defining what is "successful".

yes, I meant individually and I guess also collectively - but certainly in contrast to having the gov or the media define it for us.

Agree on the media. The media, particularly social media, distorts a lot of things. My wife and I made our kids aware of that growing up. Having things is not the goal and don’t be a “consumer”. Hopefully it stuck.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Good article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... e=Homepage

[youthathletics]

Good article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... e=Homepage

Yes it was, but one I believe we already understood, below is from the article....

Over the last decade, two distinct conversations about college admissions and class have been taking place in the United States. The first one has been conducted in public, at College Board summits and White House conferences and meetings of philanthropists and nonprofit leaders. The premise of this conversation is that inequity in higher education is mostly a demand-side problem: Poor kids are making regrettable miscalculations as they apply to college. Selective colleges would love to admit more low-income students — if only they could find enough highly qualified ones who could meet their academic standards.

The second conversation is the one that has been going on among the professionals who labor behind the scenes in admissions offices — or “enrollment management” offices, as they are now more commonly known. This conversation, held more often in private, starts from the premise that the biggest barriers to opportunity for low-income students in higher education are on the supply side — in the universities themselves, and specifically in the admissions office. Enrollment managers know there is no shortage of deserving low-income students applying to good colleges. They know this because they regularly reject them — not because they don’t want to admit these students, but because they can’t afford to.

Sadly, this is the hard truth...and thankfully schools like Princeton, Harvard, and Stanford etc. have the endowments to help those less fortunate.

[youthathletics]

Caution has a bad work in image but very fitting: https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5EB139B5

[DMac]

Caution has a bad word (fixed that for you, can't have a misspelled word in this post ) in image but very fitting: https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5EB139B5

True dat!!!!!

[Brooklyn]

college - increasingly, a dead end:


https://bonvoyaged.com/worst-colleges-i ... by-state/1

https://factsverse.com/50-worst-college ... -by-state/




sadly, now colleges leave students with shattered dreams, $1.7 trillion in debt, with dead jobs

[youthathletics]

Union Apprenticeships: The Bachelor’s
Degrees of the Construction Industry
Data for the United States, 2010-2020
https://illinoisepi.files.wordpress.com ... -final.pdf

[Brooklyn]

national student debt now at $1.75 trillion - dead end for far too many people

[Brooklyn]

Biden administration erases $5.8 billion in debt for students of fraudulent college


https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/ ... nt-college



''Hundreds of thousands of students who attended the for-profit Corinthian Colleges chain will automatically get their federal student loans canceled, the Biden administration announced Wednesday, a move that aims to bring closure to one of the most notorious cases of fraud in American higher education.

Under the new action, anyone who attended the now-defunct chain from its founding in 1995 to its collapse in 2015 will get their federal student debt wiped clean. It will erase $5.8 billion in debt for more than 560,000 borrowers, the largest single loan discharge in Education Department history, according to the agency.

“As of today, every student deceived, defrauded and driven into debt by Corinthian Colleges can rest assured that the Biden-Harris Administration has their back and will discharge their federal student loans,” Education Secretary Miguel Cardona said. “For far too long, Corinthian engaged in the wholesale financial exploitation of students, misleading them into taking on more and more debt to pay for promises they would never keep."



more ...


Next step - do the same for those students indebted to banks and other schools.

[Farfromgeneva]

Sure. Even if it is unconstitutional, short term oriented and antithetical to contracts and property rights.

Future is Income Based Repayment loans. I just started working with a 3yr old company that’s doing this. Easing in, run the originations through a neobank in Utah, and only lending as private loans to Juniors and Seniors that are nursing or stem majors reducing the dropout bad debt/default risk and where earnings are more forecast-able. They’ll branch out slowly over time and even playing the ESG game with a new “social impact” lending product for students who want to go into teaching and a few other areas where they cap the rate (below 20% which credit cards are going to clip soon) and multiple on borrowed/invested at 2.5x.