ivy league 2024

[The Orfling]

Okay, I went back and looked at the tournament seeding rules again: https://ivyleague.com/sports/2018/4/17/ ... 80748.aspx

I think they are written a bit confusingly but here's how I think they work:

1. 2-way tie in standings: head-to-head determines seeding

2. Multiple teams tied in the standings with the same record: The highest seed to team with best cumulative record against all other teams tied at that spot (example: If Cornell, Princeton and Yale are tied with the same record, Cornell is 2-0 against the other two and gets the top seed). Once a team in the multi-team tie gets a seed, repeat for the remaining teams (easy if it's a 3-way tie because it becomes simple head-to-head, if it's a 4-way tie still have 3 teams left and can be more complicated).

3. If a multi-team tie in the standings can't be broken based on cumulative record, the highest seed goes to the team that has beaten the highest seeded team outside of the tie and continuing through the league standings (example: Cornell finishes 5-1 but Penn, Princeton and Yale are tied at 4-2 and all are 1-1 against each other -- the highest seed in the group would go to Penn for beating Cornell and then it would be head-to-head between Princeton and Yale for the next seed). Once the tie is broken it goes back to the cumulative record against remaining tied teams step.

4. If step 3 doesn't resolve the tie, it goes to goal differential in the games between the tied teams, with a maximum of a 6-goal differential for any game. Once the tie is broken it goes back to the cumulative record against remaining tied teams step. (Example: in the current Penn/Yale/Cornell tie at 3-1 record, amongst the three teams Cornell has a +2 goal differential(beat Yale by 3, lost to Penn by 1), Yale has a zero goal differential (beat Penn by 3, lost to Cornell by 3), Penn has a -2 goal differential (beat Cornell by 1, lost to Yale by 3).

5. If step 4 doesn't resolve it, goes to goal differential against other Ivy teams outside of the tied teams.

6. If step 5 doesn't resolve, NCAA RPI ratings determine the higher seed.

[drunkmonkey30]

Okay, I went back and looked at the tournament seeding rules again: https://ivyleague.com/sports/2018/4/17/ ... 80748.aspx

I think they are written a bit confusingly but here's how I think they work:

1. 2-way tie in standings: head-to-head determines seeding

2. Multiple teams tied in the standings with the same record: The highest seed to team with best cumulative record against all other teams tied at that spot (example: If Cornell, Princeton and Yale are tied with the same record, Cornell is 2-0 against the other two and gets the top seed). Once a team in the multi-team tie gets a seed, repeat for the remaining teams (easy if it's a 3-way tie because it becomes simple head-to-head, if it's a 4-way tie still have 3 teams left and can be more complicated).

3. If a multi-team tie in the standings can't be broken based on cumulative record, the highest seed goes to the team that has beaten the highest seeded team outside of the tie and continuing through the league standings (example: Cornell finishes 5-1 but Penn, Princeton and Yale are tied at 4-2 and all are 1-1 against each other -- the highest seed in the group would go to Penn for beating Cornell and then it would be head-to-head between Princeton and Yale for the next seed). Once the tie is broken it goes back to the cumulative record against remaining tied teams step.

4. If step 3 doesn't resolve the tie, it goes to goal differential in the games between the tied teams, with a maximum of a 6-goal differential for any game. Once the tie is broken it goes back to the cumulative record against remaining tied teams step. (Example: in the current Penn/Yale/Cornell tie at 3-1 record, amongst the three teams Cornell has a +2 goal differential(beat Yale by 3, lost to Penn by 1), Yale has a zero goal differential (beat Penn by 3, lost to Cornell by 3), Penn has a -2 goal differential (beat Cornell by 1, lost to Yale by 3).

5. If step 4 doesn't resolve it, goes to goal differential against other Ivy teams outside of the tied teams.

6. If step 5 doesn't resolve, NCAA RPI ratings determine the higher seed.

Gonna be a wild ride over the next couple of weeks!

[faircornell]

Joey Spalina is at Princeton now?

The transfer portal works in mysterious ways.

Gobigred
JoeWillie

Corrected with apologies.

Knust had 9 saves against Syracuse.

I'm sure that you are correct. I couldn't find the statistic. I used IL's statistics.

Cornell's livestats box score

Many thanks!

[faircornell]

Joey Spalina is at Princeton now?

The transfer portal works in mysterious ways.

Gobigred
JoeWillie

Corrected with apologies.

No need to apologize, FairCornell. Your compilation work here is much appreciated.
So, Colgate's big win yesterday over Army should put more of a gloss on Yale's early-season win over the toothpaste dudes (who of course also beat Penn State). Did Cornell also play Colgate this year? Big OOC games coming soon: Yale v Boston U and the marquee match-up on Long between Cornell and Notre Dame.

Thanks, FannOLax! I've tried to include on offense any player who accumulates 3 points or more. On face-offs, 50% or more, and in goal, 50%+ or 10 saves, and/ or something close to 50%. I've had a problem with the site "timing me out" in the high scoring shot clock era. So, I've made some errors in haste.

In terms of the ILT, I wonder if Harvard or Brown might be a "spoiler". Both have potentially game-changing goalies, and some talent as well. Right now, it looks like Cornell, Penn, Princeton and Yale (in alphabetical order) for the ILT.

[joewillie78]

Massey ratings for this weekend's Ivy games:

• Cornell at home with an 88% win probability against Brown, predicted margin 7 goals;

• Harvard at home with a 93% win probability against Dartmouth, predicted margin 8 goals;

• Yale at home with a 65% win probability against Penn, predicted margin 2 goals.

As a Yale fan I'd love for the prediction of a "W" over Penn to be correct but I'm a little surprised, even with Yale as the home team, that the Massey algorithm has Yale with the 65% win probability. Once again, a lot will probably depend on whether Yale can maximize possessions through face-offs and protect the ball on clears/offensive possessions. And Emmett Carroll is playing All-World in goal this year so even for a great offense that's quite a challenge.

Gotta give Massey credit as they were pretty close on all the 3 games above.

Had Cornell by 7, won by 6
Had Yale by 2, won by 3
Had Harvard by 8 won by 6

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[joewillie78]

Ivy league players of the week:
Defense: Wyatt Knust, Cornell G
Offense: Micheal Long. Cornell A

Just when we needed them most.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[The Orfling]

Another good out-of-conference win, as Yale knocks off a ranked BU (#15 media/#16 USILA), on the strength of a brilliant 11-point game by Matt Brandau (3 goals, 8 assists), a career day by midfielder Johnny Keib (5 goals on 7 shots), great finishing by David Anderson (4 goals on 7 shots), a big day from Patrick Pisano on defense (6 GB, 2 CT), and a very strong performance in goal by Jared Paquette -- he robbed BU a few times in the second half. Perhaps the biggest take-away other than just trying to savor watching Matt Brandau quietly create: Yale's offense was really efficient once they got into the box, scoring 18 goals on 35 shots (and putting almost 70% of their shots on goal).

BU is a tough out. Very aggressive, strong ride, some terrific scorers/playmakers in attackers Louis Perfetto (3G, 2A) and Vince D'Alto (4G) and midfielder Jake Cates (1G, 4A). What seemed, coming into the game, like a possible advantage at the faceoff X for Yale was largely neutralized with ferocious BU wing play: coming into the 4th quarter Yale had only a 15-14 edge in faceoffs, and even that was deceiving because some faceoffs that Yale initially won turned into BU possessions within seconds. (BU did the same thing in the Army game -- what looked on paper like a big Army FO advantage was much narrower because the wings took the ball back on multiple occasions.) A fairly heroic effort by Yale's Mac Rodriguez to win 6 out of 9 faceoffs in the fourth quarter when every faceoff was a mini brawl after the clamp (and after Yale's other great member of the FOGO tandem, Nicholas Ramsey, had left with an injury) was pretty much the difference in a game in which . . . wait for it. . . BU outshot Yale by almost 30 shots (64 to 35).

Fun game to watch! It was a one-goal game with 1 minute to play as BU never gave up.

[joewillie78]

Another good out-of-conference win, as Yale knocks off a ranked BU (#15 media/#16 USILA), on the strength of a brilliant 11-point game by Matt Brandau (3 goals, 8 assists), a career day by midfielder Johnny Keib (5 goals on 7 shots), great finishing by David Anderson (4 goals on 7 shots), a big day from Patrick Pisano on defense (6 GB, 2 CT), and a very strong performance in goal by Jared Paquette -- he robbed BU a few times in the second half. Perhaps the biggest take-away other than just trying to savor watching Matt Brandau quietly create: Yale's offense was really efficient once they got into the box, scoring 18 goals on 35 shots (and putting almost 70% of their shots on goal).

BU is a tough out. Very aggressive, strong ride, some terrific scorers/playmakers in attackers Louis Perfetto (3G, 2A) and Vince D'Alto (4G) and midfielder Jake Cates (1G, 4A). What seemed, coming into the game, like a possible advantage at the faceoff X for Yale was largely neutralized with ferocious BU wing play: coming into the 4th quarter Yale had only a 15-14 edge in faceoffs, and even that was deceiving because some faceoffs that Yale initially won turned into BU possessions within seconds. (BU did the same thing in the Army game -- what looked on paper like a big Army FO advantage was much narrower because the wings took the ball back on multiple occasions.) A fairly heroic effort by Yale's Mac Rodriguez to win 6 out of 9 faceoffs in the fourth quarter when every faceoff was a mini brawl after the clamp (and after Yale's other great member of the FOGO tandem, Nicholas Ramsey, had left with an injury) was pretty much the difference in a game in which . . . wait for it. . . BU outshot Yale by almost 30 shots (64 to 35).

Fun game to watch! It was a one-goal game with 1 minute to play as BU never gave up.

Great game to watch. These Tuesday night classics are fun OOC games and BU gave Yale everything they could handle, and they will be a tough out in the Patriot League, with Army, Navy and Colgate. That league has really stepped up.

Great Lacrosse this year.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[Can Opener]

At the risk of sidetracking discussion of the 2024 Ivy season, an interesting question popped up on the Brown thread about whether Kirwan would consider the Brown job if it opened. It made me wonder about which Ivy job is the most desirable for a coach. Here is my quick take:

1. Yale -- Recent national championship, stellar facility, incredible financial support & world class alumni network. Academics are superb, although it is perceived as more of a sweatshop than many other Ivies.
2. Princeton -- Academic prestige, history of NCs, gorgeous campus, strong eating club social life & ideal geographic position. If admissions plays ball, this place has many unfair advantages for a coach.
3. Cornell -- NC's are well in the rearview, but tradition and alumni support are very high. Geography used to be a plus, mining the upstate HS programs, but much less so today. Quite a long trip for most of the roster. Facilities are OK, not great, but improving. Ideally need a full indoor field.
4. Brown -- Second best lacrosse stadium/locker room/coaching suite behind only Yale. Breaking ground soon on a full indoor field adjacent to the current lacrosse stadium. Flexible curriculum means athletes don't have to take any core requirements in areas that don't interest them. Admissions is cooperative, particularly on recent transfers.
5. Penn -- Very close behind Brown. Loses points on lacrosse stadium and neighborhood. Wharton is the/one of the best undergrad business schools on the planet, but admissions leverage for athletes is diminished compared to regular admissions. Better geography for OOC games.
6. Harvard -- Lacrosse tradition not as strong as Penn and Brown. Facility is good, not great. Not perceived as a "fun" campus, although kids manage to find Saturday night action. Incredible brand name recognized worldwide.
7. Dartmouth -- Weakest Ivy lacrosse tradition. Indoor practice facility is terrific, but too small for games during blizzards (like their Penn game this season). Furthest from recruiting hotbeds and difficult to schedule strong OOC games at home given travel and weather constraints for visiting teams. Still has a lacrosse fraternity, gorgeous setting and good overall sports tradition. Most kids say sophomore summer on campus is one of the best of their lives. Probably the biggest advantage is that it is so differentiated. If you like the outdoors and a bucolic college town, Dartmouth is 5X better than its peers.

[bearlaxfan]

I had heard the budgeted Brown indoor facility is not full-field.
I don't know anything about Princeton's & Harvard's facilities (Allston Hvd sports campus is impressive overall), but given their resources, if Brown's are better, shame on H & P. We know what Princeton can do when they put effort into it. Harvard has been the enigma.

[Ezra White]

At the risk of sidetracking discussion of the 2024 Ivy season, an interesting question popped up on the Brown thread about whether Kirwan would consider the Brown job if it opened. It made me wonder about which Ivy job is the most desirable for a coach. Here is my quick take:

1. Yale -- Recent national championship, stellar facility, incredible financial support & world class alumni network. Academics are superb, although it is perceived as more of a sweatshop than many other Ivies.
2. Princeton -- Academic prestige, history of NCs, gorgeous campus, strong eating club social life & ideal geographic position. If admissions plays ball, this place has many unfair advantages for a coach.
3. Cornell -- NC's are well in the rearview, but tradition and alumni support are very high. Geography used to be a plus, mining the upstate HS programs, but much less so today. Quite a long trip for most of the roster. Facilities are OK, not great, but improving. Ideally need a full indoor field.
4. Brown -- Second best lacrosse stadium/locker room/coaching suite behind only Yale. Breaking ground soon on a full indoor field adjacent to the current lacrosse stadium. Flexible curriculum means athletes don't have to take any core requirements in areas that don't interest them. Admissions is cooperative, particularly on recent transfers.
5. Penn -- Very close behind Brown. Loses points on lacrosse stadium and neighborhood. Wharton is the/one of the best undergrad business schools on the planet, but admissions leverage for athletes is diminished compared to regular admissions. Better geography for OOC games.
6. Harvard -- Lacrosse tradition not as strong as Penn and Brown. Facility is good, not great. Not perceived as a "fun" campus, although kids manage to find Saturday night action. Incredible brand name recognized worldwide.
7. Dartmouth -- Weakest Ivy lacrosse tradition. Indoor practice facility is terrific, but too small for games during blizzards (like their Penn game this season). Furthest from recruiting hotbeds and difficult to schedule strong OOC games at home given travel and weather constraints for visiting teams. Still has a lacrosse fraternity, gorgeous setting and good overall sports tradition. Most kids say sophomore summer on campus is one of the best of their lives. Probably the biggest advantage is that it is so differentiated. If you like the outdoors and a bucolic college town, Dartmouth is 5X better than its peers.

I'd add a few things about Cornell, mostly because I'm familiar with them. Regarding outdoors & bucolic college town, I've always seen Cornell & Dartmouth as comparable, although Dartmouth seems more like a liberal arts college while Cornell is a larger research university with a wider menu of offerings ("Any person, any study"). Second, although I'm not a fan of it, in recent years Cornell has added a batch of excellent undergraduate business programs; I have trouble keeping track, but I believe they include an undergraduate program in the Johnson Business School, an "applied" economics program in what used to be the ag school (from Ag. Econ.) & Businesses, Hotel management, and Industrial & Labor Relations. There are also joint programs, such as business & engineering tracks. Third, they're building an indoor facility that's primarily for practice, but can seat (I believe) around 500 for indoor games; when demand for hockey tickets grew, they expanded seating at the hockey rink, and I'd be surprised if something similar wouldn't happen for lacrosse, if the demand for indoor tickets takes off. Finally, you're right about the long trip, but some kids see getting away from home as a plus.

[Brownlax]

At the risk of sidetracking discussion of the 2024 Ivy season, an interesting question popped up on the Brown thread about whether Kirwan would consider the Brown job if it opened. It made me wonder about which Ivy job is the most desirable for a coach. Here is my quick take:

1. Yale -- Recent national championship, stellar facility, incredible financial support & world class alumni network. Academics are superb, although it is perceived as more of a sweatshop than many other Ivies.
2. Princeton -- Academic prestige, history of NCs, gorgeous campus, strong eating club social life & ideal geographic position. If admissions plays ball, this place has many unfair advantages for a coach.
3. Cornell -- NC's are well in the rearview, but tradition and alumni support are very high. Geography used to be a plus, mining the upstate HS programs, but much less so today. Quite a long trip for most of the roster. Facilities are OK, not great, but improving. Ideally need a full indoor field.
4. Brown -- Second best lacrosse stadium/locker room/coaching suite behind only Yale. Breaking ground soon on a full indoor field adjacent to the current lacrosse stadium. Flexible curriculum means athletes don't have to take any core requirements in areas that don't interest them. Admissions is cooperative, particularly on recent transfers.
5. Penn -- Very close behind Brown. Loses points on lacrosse stadium and neighborhood. Wharton is the/one of the best undergrad business schools on the planet, but admissions leverage for athletes is diminished compared to regular admissions. Better geography for OOC games.
6. Harvard -- Lacrosse tradition not as strong as Penn and Brown. Facility is good, not great. Not perceived as a "fun" campus, although kids manage to find Saturday night action. Incredible brand name recognized worldwide.
7. Dartmouth -- Weakest Ivy lacrosse tradition. Indoor practice facility is terrific, but too small for games during blizzards (like their Penn game this season). Furthest from recruiting hotbeds and difficult to schedule strong OOC games at home given travel and weather constraints for visiting teams. Still has a lacrosse fraternity, gorgeous setting and good overall sports tradition. Most kids say sophomore summer on campus is one of the best of their lives. Probably the biggest advantage is that it is so differentiated. If you like the outdoors and a bucolic college town, Dartmouth is 5X better than its peers.

You left out Columbia

[Brownlax]

At the risk of sidetracking discussion of the 2024 Ivy season, an interesting question popped up on the Brown thread about whether Kirwan would consider the Brown job if it opened. It made me wonder about which Ivy job is the most desirable for a coach. Here is my quick take:

1. Yale -- Recent national championship, stellar facility, incredible financial support & world class alumni network. Academics are superb, although it is perceived as more of a sweatshop than many other Ivies.
2. Princeton -- Academic prestige, history of NCs, gorgeous campus, strong eating club social life & ideal geographic position. If admissions plays ball, this place has many unfair advantages for a coach.
3. Cornell -- NC's are well in the rearview, but tradition and alumni support are very high. Geography used to be a plus, mining the upstate HS programs, but much less so today. Quite a long trip for most of the roster. Facilities are OK, not great, but improving. Ideally need a full indoor field.
4. Brown -- Second best lacrosse stadium/locker room/coaching suite behind only Yale. Breaking ground soon on a full indoor field adjacent to the current lacrosse stadium. Flexible curriculum means athletes don't have to take any core requirements in areas that don't interest them. Admissions is cooperative, particularly on recent transfers.
5. Penn -- Very close behind Brown. Loses points on lacrosse stadium and neighborhood. Wharton is the/one of the best undergrad business schools on the planet, but admissions leverage for athletes is diminished compared to regular admissions. Better geography for OOC games.
6. Harvard -- Lacrosse tradition not as strong as Penn and Brown. Facility is good, not great. Not perceived as a "fun" campus, although kids manage to find Saturday night action. Incredible brand name recognized worldwide.
7. Dartmouth -- Weakest Ivy lacrosse tradition. Indoor practice facility is terrific, but too small for games during blizzards (like their Penn game this season). Furthest from recruiting hotbeds and difficult to schedule strong OOC games at home given travel and weather constraints for visiting teams. Still has a lacrosse fraternity, gorgeous setting and good overall sports tradition. Most kids say sophomore summer on campus is one of the best of their lives. Probably the biggest advantage is that it is so differentiated. If you like the outdoors and a bucolic college town, Dartmouth is 5X better than its peers.

You left out Columbia

[Mid-Lax]

Never ever heard that Yale academics are a sweatshop.

How about rigorous?

[bearlaxfan]

Harvard Streamlines Admission Process By Directly Growing New Students From DNA Of Top Donors-

The Onion, of course.

[The Orfling]

Massey ratings for this weekend's Ivy League games:

• Yale predicted to win on the road vs. Dartmouth, 90% win probability, 8 goal predicted margin;

• Penn predicted to win at home vs. Harvard, 63% win prediction, 1 goal predicted margin;

• Princeton predicted to win on the road vs. Brown, 83% win probability, 4 goal predicted margin;

• Notre Dame predicted to win at a neutral site vs. Cornell, 82% win prediction, 5 goal predicted margin.

[FannOLax]

Massey ratings for this weekend's Ivy League games:

• Yale predicted to win on the road vs. Dartmouth, 90% win probability, 8 goal predicted margin;

• Penn predicted to win at home vs. Harvard, 63% win prediction, 1 goal predicted margin;

• Princeton predicted to win on the road vs. Brown, 83% win probability, 4 goal predicted margin;

• Notre Dame predicted to win at a neutral site vs. Cornell, 82% win prediction, 5 goal predicted margin.

Well, this week Massey and his computer move away from going with the home team, at least in 2 of the 3 cases, and favoring home team Penn by only 1 over Harvard.

Notre Dame with 82% win prediction? Ummm, okay, definitely, more definitely than UVA over Harvard. Go Big Red!

[faircornell]

Massey ratings for this weekend's Ivy League games:

• Yale predicted to win on the road vs. Dartmouth, 90% win probability, 8 goal predicted margin;

• Penn predicted to win at home vs. Harvard, 63% win prediction, 1 goal predicted margin;

• Princeton predicted to win on the road vs. Brown, 83% win probability, 4 goal predicted margin;

• Notre Dame predicted to win at a neutral site vs. Cornell, 82% win prediction, 5 goal predicted margin.

Well, this week Massey and his computer move away from going with the home team, at least in 2 of the 3 cases, and favoring home team Penn by only 1 over Harvard.

Notre Dame with 82% win prediction? Ummm, okay, definitely, more definitely than UVA over Harvard. Go Big Red!

Massey is certainly with the general consensus regarding the strengths of different teams. Personally, I think that both Harvard and Cornell both have chances of an "upset" if they play their best and play complete games.

[bearlaxfan]

Lacrosse Alumni Day games for both Brown men & women today. Women's Brown/Princeton game is first, start time noon, so the men's 3:30 start is probable but the proceedings and any overtime might affect that.

Any rumors that the Athletic Dept admin is searching records to see if some male alumni have eligibility remaining are just mean-spirited gossip. Started by me. Fingers X'd

[FannOLax]

Lacrosse Alumni Day games for both Brown men & women today. Women's Brown/Princeton game is first, start time noon, so the men's 3:30 start is probable but the proceedings and any overtime might affect that.

Any rumors that the Athletic Dept admin is searching records to see if some male alumni have eligibility remaining are just mean-spirited gossip. Started by me. Fingers X'd

If Brown beats Princeton today, then beats Dartmouth and Harvard, Bruno could make the ILT providing it gets a little help, say by Yale beating Princeton in New Haven.