NEW RULE PROPOSALS

[VAMomGlax2019]

McCord posted a clip that highlighted one of the 24 CARDS handed out in the game. Broken...super broken.

Yes and the clip was exactly what the rule is trying to prevent -- it was a cross check, slightly behind in transition. Admittedly, not super hard. A play that players have been taught to do in the past in order to slow down transition.

This is the problem with free movement, you are incentivizing defenders to just hack at players in transition.

I'm sure over time players will be taught to play good fundament defense and the impact of these cards will be much smaller.

I’m trying to follow your logic here. You admittedly say the foul was not “super” hard. How did issuing a green card in the USF clip make the game better? The offensive player had a clear fast break advantage taken away.

Is your hope over a period of time, probably years if ever, players will be conditioned to not foul in transitions; thus, the game will become faster? Right now these soft fouls and green cards penalize athletic teams with speed.

[LaxDadMax]

McCord posted a clip that highlighted one of the 24 CARDS handed out in the game. Broken...super broken.

Yes and the clip was exactly what the rule is trying to prevent -- it was a cross check, slightly behind in transition. Admittedly, not super hard. A play that players have been taught to do in the past in order to slow down transition.

This is the problem with free movement, you are incentivizing defenders to just hack at players in transition.

I'm sure over time players will be taught to play good fundament defense and the impact of these cards will be much smaller.

I’m trying to follow your logic here. You admittedly say the foul was not “super” hard. How did issuing a green card in the USF clip make the game better? The offensive player had a clear fast break advantage taken away.

Is your hope over a period of time, probably years if ever, players will be conditioned to not foul in transitions; thus, the game will become faster? Right now these soft fouls and green cards penalize athletic teams with speed.

My hope is that over time attackers stop just hacking and recklessly checking offensive players right before the enter the offensive zone at the restraining line. There are multiple teams which use this as a strategy to shut down transition.

The green card itself doesn't make the game better. However, if the threat of a green card prevents that type of check, then yes the game is better.

Like I said before, I am not a fan of the new rules and think there should have been more of a transition period. However, I don't think assessments can be made after one fall ball game, especially for a team which isn't playing this spring.

Ultimately, I think players, especially attackers will adjust and it will be much less of an impact.

From the fall ball I have seen, though, I think the change in shooting space rules will have the biggest impact. And this will be a positive. Because of the change from stick length to arm and stick length, there were maybe 1/2 to 1/3 the number of shooting space calls which I believe is a very good thing

[WLaxdad]

Will any of the rule changes address the situations like what happened to the Yale player? I know as a parent that story made me really worry about my daughter playing. As she's gotten older the games have gotten way more physical and I do worry about her safety. I've seen some crazy (and somethings bloody) things go down on the field and she's not even to HS yet. Safety was one of the main reasons we didn't do club in the fall and started tennis.

By the way tennis parents are a different world from the lax parents I'm used to. I've stood there all fall wondering why no one was screaming like manics....

[Laxfan212]

Will any of the rule changes address the situations like what happened to the Yale player? I know as a parent that story made me really worry about my daughter playing. As she's gotten older the games have gotten way more physical and I do worry about her safety. I've seen some crazy (and somethings bloody) things go down on the field and she's not even to HS yet. Safety was one of the main reasons we didn't do club in the fall and started tennis.

By the way tennis parents are a different world from the lax parents I'm used to. I've stood there all fall wondering why no one was screaming like manics....

What happened with the Yale player was largely a result of a fluke heavily contributed by a size mismatch due to the attacker’s slight size. If you watch college wlax with any frequency, the type of defense applied in that scenario wasn’t unusual.

[Laxfan212]

McCord posted a clip that highlighted one of the 24 CARDS handed out in the game. Broken...super broken.

Yes and the clip was exactly what the rule is trying to prevent -- it was a cross check, slightly behind in transition. Admittedly, not super hard. A play that players have been taught to do in the past in order to slow down transition.

This is the problem with free movement, you are incentivizing defenders to just hack at players in transition.

I'm sure over time players will be taught to play good fundament defense and the impact of these cards will be much smaller.

I’m trying to follow your logic here. You admittedly say the foul was not “super” hard. How did issuing a green card in the USF clip make the game better? The offensive player had a clear fast break advantage taken away.

Is your hope over a period of time, probably years if ever, players will be conditioned to not foul in transitions; thus, the game will become faster? Right now these soft fouls and green cards penalize athletic teams with speed.

My hope is that over time attackers stop just hacking and recklessly checking offensive players right before the enter the offensive zone at the restraining line. There are multiple teams which use this as a strategy to shut down transition.

The green card itself doesn't make the game better. However, if the threat of a green card prevents that type of check, then yes the game is better.

Like I said before, I am not a fan of the new rules and think there should have been more of a transition period. However, I don't think assessments can be made after one fall ball game, especially for a team which isn't playing this spring.

Ultimately, I think players, especially attackers will adjust and it will be much less of an impact.

From the fall ball I have seen, though, I think the change in shooting space rules will have the biggest impact. And this will be a positive. Because of the change from stick length to arm and stick length, there were maybe 1/2 to 1/3 the number of shooting space calls which I believe is a very good thing

Did you mean defenders when you said “attackers”?

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

What happened with the Yale player was largely a result of a fluke heavily contributed by a size mismatch due to the attacker’s slight size. If you watch college wlax with any frequency, the type of defense applied in that scenario wasn’t unusual.

I don't think the size mismatch was dramatic. Stony Brook defender Dillon is listed at 5' 8" where Yale attacker Everson is listed as 5' 6". Yes, Dillon is a bit taller and heavier, but the injury was no fluke. That was a deftly delivered cross check to a vulnerable area of the player who had already scored. It was a nasty cheap shot. Not surprised at the effect it had as other players have suffered the same injury when cross checked in that same area.

[LaxDadMax]

McCord posted a clip that highlighted one of the 24 CARDS handed out in the game. Broken...super broken.

Yes and the clip was exactly what the rule is trying to prevent -- it was a cross check, slightly behind in transition. Admittedly, not super hard. A play that players have been taught to do in the past in order to slow down transition.

This is the problem with free movement, you are incentivizing defenders to just hack at players in transition.

I'm sure over time players will be taught to play good fundament defense and the impact of these cards will be much smaller.

I’m trying to follow your logic here. You admittedly say the foul was not “super” hard. How did issuing a green card in the USF clip make the game better? The offensive player had a clear fast break advantage taken away.

Is your hope over a period of time, probably years if ever, players will be conditioned to not foul in transitions; thus, the game will become faster? Right now these soft fouls and green cards penalize athletic teams with speed.

My hope is that over time attackers stop just hacking and recklessly checking offensive players right before the enter the offensive zone at the restraining line. There are multiple teams which use this as a strategy to shut down transition.

The green card itself doesn't make the game better. However, if the threat of a green card prevents that type of check, then yes the game is better.

Like I said before, I am not a fan of the new rules and think there should have been more of a transition period. However, I don't think assessments can be made after one fall ball game, especially for a team which isn't playing this spring.

Ultimately, I think players, especially attackers will adjust and it will be much less of an impact.

From the fall ball I have seen, though, I think the change in shooting space rules will have the biggest impact. And this will be a positive. Because of the change from stick length to arm and stick length, there were maybe 1/2 to 1/3 the number of shooting space calls which I believe is a very good thing

Did you mean defenders when you said “attackers”?

No I meant attackers.

On the ride, most of the cheap shots / unnecessary fouls / fouls to stop transition that I see are delivered by attackers who can't cross the restraining line. Some coaches are teaching them to do whatever they can to stop transition while D-middies and defenders get back in the zone.

[laxguy516]

It was not Verhulst who injured Yale kid.

[intheknow247]

Mindy McCord out calling for an emergency meeting of the IWCLA on the disastrous new rules caused her 60 minute game to take 2:38 to play. Never tested out in fall ball. Hate to say we saw this coming but … we saw this coming.

To be fair, with the tempo USF plays, they will ALWAYS have the longest games in the nation due to shorter possessions which yield more possessions which yield more goals.

In the fall ball I saw last weekend, the game was marginally longer but that was mainly due to refs taking time to 1) discuss rules amongst themselves and 2) explain them to the coaches.

While I think the new rules may be extending the game, I think declaring the rules a disaster after 2 weeks is a big premature.

While there were more whistle, I did see 4 charges called in the first game I watched, which I think is a big step in the right direction. I also liked the new 3 second rule which definitely reduced the number of shooting spaces

Not a fan of what USF is doing. Was super excited when they started the program. Thought she was gonna build from the ground up and take its time. Think Clemson sped up their process for them. 45 kids on the roster already and one more recruiting class to go.

3 things...

1. There are 28 players on USF roster...you are only off by 17.
2. "one more recruiting class to go.", that doesn't even make sense.
2. USF could care less about your opinion of whether you are a fan, as with the rest of us.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

What happened with the Yale player was largely a result of a fluke heavily contributed by a size mismatch due to the attacker’s slight size. If you watch college wlax with any frequency, the type of defense applied in that scenario wasn’t unusual.

I don't think the size mismatch was that dramatic. Stony Brook defender Dillon is listed at 5' 8" where Yale attacker Everson is listed as 5' 6". Yes, Dillon is a bit taller and heavier, but the injury was no fluke. That was a deftly delivered cross check to a vulnerable area of the player who had already scored. It was a nasty cheap shot. Not surprised at the effect it had as other players have suffered the same injury when cross checked in that same area.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

It was not Verhulst who injured Yale kid.

You're right. Thanks for the correction.

[Dasher]

Can't wait for all of the tantalizing parts of what McCord calls #Hallmark Lacrosse! Think of all the Instagram highlights of a team man down getting a turnover and stalling and playing keep away for 40-50 seconds. Fantastic action! 24 card games give you pretty good odds of that happening! Exciting.

[Bdgr]

Mindy McCord out calling for an emergency meeting of the IWCLA on the disastrous new rules caused her 60 minute game to take 2:38 to play. Never tested out in fall ball. Hate to say we saw this coming but … we saw this coming.

To be fair, with the tempo USF plays, they will ALWAYS have the longest games in the nation due to shorter possessions which yield more possessions which yield more goals.

In the fall ball I saw last weekend, the game was marginally longer but that was mainly due to refs taking time to 1) discuss rules amongst themselves and 2) explain them to the coaches.

While I think the new rules may be extending the game, I think declaring the rules a disaster after 2 weeks is a big premature.

While there were more whistle, I did see 4 charges called in the first game I watched, which I think is a big step in the right direction. I also liked the new 3 second rule which definitely reduced the number of shooting spaces

Not a fan of what USF is doing. Was super excited when they started the program. Thought she was gonna build from the ground up and take its time. Think Clemson sped up their process for them. 45 kids on the roster already and one more recruiting class to go.

3 things...

1. There are 28 players on USF roster...you are only off by 17.
2. "one more recruiting class to go.", that doesn't even make sense.
2. USF could care less about your opinion of whether you are a fan, as with the rest of us.

Not to clarify someone else’s message but what I think they meant was:
1. 28 current players and 17 24’s coming in next year which is 44 (although I did hear that one player was decommitted in the class already by the coaches).
2. One recruiting class to go refers to another class of additions being the 25’s(not sure how big the class will be on that one when the dust settles)
2(although should be numbered 3) this is a site literally for opinions, no need to call that out. We are all armchair quarterbacks, out of shape lacrosse players talking about themselves like we are Al Bundy who once scored 4 touchdowns in 1 game, and parents who are all way too involved and living vicariously through our kids performance

[LaxGnome22]

Mindy McCord out calling for an emergency meeting of the IWCLA on the disastrous new rules caused her 60 minute game to take 2:38 to play. Never tested out in fall ball. Hate to say we saw this coming but … we saw this coming.

To be fair, with the tempo USF plays, they will ALWAYS have the longest games in the nation due to shorter possessions which yield more possessions which yield more goals.

In the fall ball I saw last weekend, the game was marginally longer but that was mainly due to refs taking time to 1) discuss rules amongst themselves and 2) explain them to the coaches.

While I think the new rules may be extending the game, I think declaring the rules a disaster after 2 weeks is a big premature.

While there were more whistle, I did see 4 charges called in the first game I watched, which I think is a big step in the right direction. I also liked the new 3 second rule which definitely reduced the number of shooting spaces

Not a fan of what USF is doing. Was super excited when they started the program. Thought she was gonna build from the ground up and take its time. Think Clemson sped up their process for them. 45 kids on the roster already and one more recruiting class to go.

3 things...

1. There are 28 players on USF roster...you are only off by 17.
2. "one more recruiting class to go.", that doesn't even make sense.
2. USF could care less about your opinion of whether you are a fan, as with the rest of us.

Not to clarify someone else’s message but what I think they meant was:
1. 28 current players and 17 24’s coming in next year which is 44 (although I did hear that one player was decommitted in the class already by the coaches).
2. One recruiting class to go refers to another class of additions being the 25’s(not sure how big the class will be on that one when the dust settles)
2(although should be numbered 3) this is a site literally for opinions, no need to call that out. We are all armchair quarterbacks, out of shape lacrosse players talking about themselves like we are Al Bundy who once scored 4 touchdowns in 1 game, and parents who are all way too involved and living vicariously through our kids performance

Pretty much 1 and 2 on the head. And for 2a, he may have a daughter there so I’ll cut him some slack. Pretty sure he missed this post

“This year doesn’t count. They aren’t playing. With zero transfers next year USF Will be 38-40 the first spring they step on the field for real. 2025 class will bump that up to 45-47. They got Chep and other transfers. 20 (23s) 14 (24s) 7 (25). And then whatever they add for the 2026 class. Then again, if you listen to the Assoc HC and she was being honest, some of the 2024s taken last year won’t be there. At least that’s what she said when my daughter told her she was concerned the roster was too big. But this shouldn’t be on this forum posts. Should be in recruiting. My bad. I agree with Coach Mindy. The new rules stink!”

You may say USF could care less and that’s fine and true but it mattered to my daughter. Not doubt USF moved on as soon as the phone call was done. Mindy and Paul are awesome though. Good luck to your daughter.

[westcoastlax]

Can people comment on their observations from Fall Ball on their observations of how the new green cards are affecting the game?

My daughter thinks there will be a lot more woman-down situations that will hurt teams that try to play zone.

[laxfan9999]

From watching a bunch of games-

Teams will Learn to foul in offensive third to allow d to get back and avoid the green cards between the 30s. Teams will ride without being aggressive with checks between the 30s. No fouling between 30s.

[LaxGnome22]

Watched UNC vs Loyola last week. Wasn’t horrible. Game actually felt like it moved along believe it or not. Was faster.

[LaxDadMax]

From my perspective, 2 big differences

1) A LOT less shooting spaces, maybe 60% less.

2) More cards, usually green, in transition.


Net-net, I think this will be a wash in terms of time of game once teams adjust. Fewer free positions will definitely speed the game up, but I expect more goals as a result of giving offense a bigger edge in transition. (you just can't hack at a played in transition).

[Relax77]

I don’t mind the calls in transition. Once they start to get used to it, they will stop hacking the player to slow it down. I’m interested to see if the flops continue. Or will they actually call it.

[LaxDadMax]

I don’t mind the calls in transition. Once they start to get used to it, they will stop hacking the player to slow it down. I’m interested to see if the flops continue. Or will they actually call it.

I agree. What what I've seen coaches are still adjusting to the new rules. I expect a very different game by February