PLL 2023

[Basement Bias]

Thoughts on PLL basically going to the MLL model? I keep saying we need 3 pro leagues. NLL remains but adjust the schedule. Then bring the MLL back tied to cities near the heart of college lacrosse blue bloods that runs along the college season. Think Hopkins on Saturday at Homewood and the Bayhawks on Sunday. Then go to PLL a weekend or 2 after Memorial Day to Labor Day with the current travel tour & no affiliated cities.

One of the Barstool podcast personalities made a really intriguing proposition. He suggested that they declare at least a few of the teams to regions, and then do varying location games with in those regions, so as to continue the commitment to the “growth” aspect, but begin getting traction for local fan bases.

I remain concerned. The fans that are paying attention have likely formed some level of team allegiance. The chances of getting the team you follow most assigned close to you are slim at best. Also from an attendance perspective. Fans went for a day, or two. Likely attended all games for the period that they went, rooting interest or not. Now switch to 1 game, 2 teams. Will people be as likely to invest they time and money into one single game based near them that likely won’t even contain “their” team?

Maybe they can do it using the same exact format, but someone is the weekend “host” team at their home field, like the Mustang Classic. Who knows. I want it to succeed though.

On this weekend’s games, yea Chrome needs a spark. I was surprised by the Redwoods battling back after going early in the hole big. They were all great close games, with the Chrome one being an exception. But that one adds player drama, which is also needed to draw interest.

Similar concern as me on attendance. Feel like they're possibly hurting a good thing. Why I suggested bringing MLL back to partner weekends with college lacrosse. Maybe have like AAF (though it failed) with players from regional colleges play for nearby MLL teams. I keep using the Bayhawks, though I was a Barrage fan then others like Launch, Hammerheads, & Cannons but it helps my point. Have a games at Hopkins, Loyola, and Maryland with players from those schools making up the Bayhawks roster. PLL being a travel league in the summer is a great model to bring it to other locations.

[DQKing]

Anyone have real numbers on in person paid attendance the first two weeks?
Doesn't look very good from what I've seen on TV.

[lorin]

Anyone have real numbers on in person paid attendance the first two weeks?
Doesn't look very good from what I've seen on TV.

It’s hard to tell from TV, when you are at the game you notice a lot of people walking around, concession stands, pll tent etc, they do really well off merchandise

[DeepPocket]

Without looking at the schedule myself, any idea how long the World Lacrosse “break” period is?

[Lax Mouse]

I think the break is 3 weeks? After this weekend, next set of games is in Minneapolis the weekend of July 8th.

It's looking like most of the games this weekend in Columbus will be sellouts (albeit at a smaller venue). I think it'll be a good barometer of what looks better (packed small venues vs moderately populated mid-large venues). I agree it's hard to tell how many folks are actually in attendance with merch lines, bar down, and other activities during the game. I remember at the Championship Series - I could barely get a seat that I paid for and still there were plenty of folks walking about.

I'm torn on the switch to city based model. I like that it might be a bit easier on the players, and it'll add a new dimension to free agency I'm sure. I know many folks complain that the current model prevents them from having a rooting interest without geographic affiliations, so I'm sure this might do something to bring those folks in (and new fans who'll support their local teams). I personally like the current model to a higher degree - I similarly feel that I don't need a region affiliation to support or enjoy the game. There's always intriguing storylines to watch and this allows me to truly enjoy the game being played at the highest level.

I've long thought (though haven't had the platform to share) what a few folks have started to voice - that region based teams make more sense than one city per team. (For example, a New England Team might play 3 home games in Boston, 1 in Providence, 1 in Fairfield, or something to that nature). That'll allow for a larger footprint for each team while maintaining that local(ish) affinity and allow the league to continue to get in front of a multitude of markets.

[Lax Mouse]

In other news, there seems to be some drama this week between the League and players who want to take the week off to prep for the world games.

Dan Arestia has shared a lot of great thoughts of this on twitter. Tough spot to be in - I get that the players want time to prep for the World Championship but, as Dan points out, the League has already made accommodations by pausing the season for it.

I imagine there's some stuff going on behind the scenes - usually the injury report for the week is out by now and I've seen nothing.

If more players take off this week, that leaves a lot of questions for potential lineups and we might get to see some different players.

Only major player movement so far this week:

Cannons pick up Cade van Raaphorst (they had an open roster spot)
Redwoods waive BJ Farrare and move Tevlin onto the 25 man from the holdout list
Waterdogs add Chris Fake from the holdout list (they also had an open roster spot, and it seems Mazzone might not be available this week)
Chrome lose Jesse Bernhardt to paternity leave and add Jack Myers from the PUP List
Archers add Challen Rogers from the Holdout List (they also had an open roster spot)

[lorin]

In other news, there seems to be some drama this week between the League and players who want to take the week off to prep for the world games.

Dan Arestia has shared a lot of great thoughts of this on twitter. Tough spot to be in - I get that the players want time to prep for the World Championship but, as Dan points out, the League has already made accommodations by pausing the season for it.

I imagine there's some stuff going on behind the scenes - usually the injury report for the week is out by now and I've seen nothing.

If more players take off this week, that leaves a lot of questions for potential lineups and we might get to see some different players.

Only major player movement so far this week:

Cannons pick up Cade van Raaphorst (they had an open roster spot)
Redwoods waive BJ Farrare and move Tevlin onto the 25 man from the holdout list
Waterdogs add Chris Fake from the holdout list (they also had an open roster spot, and it seems Mazzone might not be available this week)
Chrome lose Jesse Bernhardt to paternity leave and add Jack Myers from the PUP List
Archers add Challen Rogers from the Holdout List (they also had an open roster spot)

Really wish the Pll would just concentrate on lacrosse not all the social stuff they push on us, I just want to enjoy the sport of lacrosse, IMO they think everyone in the lacrosse world is rich and privilege. FYI there are plenty of people living week to week and working two or three jobs to pay for summer lacrosse. I love watching lax but I am sick of all the woke crap. Just want to watch lacrosse and enjoy the game.

[DeepPocket]

I think Whips Redwoods will be the game of the weekend. I see Rambo finally catching some traction, but the ‘woods pulling it out in the end.

[Lax Mouse]

Really wish the Pll would just concentrate on lacrosse not all the social stuff they push on us, I just want to enjoy the sport of lacrosse, IMO they think everyone in the lacrosse world is rich and privilege. FYI there are plenty of people living week to week and working two or three jobs to pay for summer lacrosse. I love watching lax but I am sick of all the woke crap. Just want to watch lacrosse and enjoy the game.

Not quite sure what this is in reference to, but if you love the game and want to see it grow, I'm not sure what the problem is with the league reaching out to communities that have been historically less represented in the sport and making them feel welcome. Everyone should be able to enjoy this sport, and to do so, everyone needs to feel and be welcomed in it. Also not sure how this is related to wealth - anyone can be accepting and kind (or not); money has little to do with that. Also not sure how any of their social campaigns affect the product on the field.

[Lax Mouse]

I think Whips Redwoods will be the game of the weekend. I see Rambo finally catching some traction, but the ‘woods pulling it out in the end.

But yes, back to the game. I think this game might have the most significance of any this weekend. The Whips absolutely cannot fall to 0-3, and the Woods have a chance to start 3-0. I think Rambo came back to life a bit last weekend (4g, 1a with 80% shooting). Another week for Zed to settle back in, and Dordevic to continue to get comfortable with the Pro Game I think will lead this to being highly competitive. The Whips middies need to step it up - Woods should have Tevlin for his first Pro Game, but their SSDM group (though playing well) is vulnerable and lacks a ton of depth.

Friday rosters are up.

For Atlas, Logan should be healthier, but Comizio played okay in his first action last weekend and could come back if needed. No major changes in the lineup - including no Rehfuss yet. Pressler sticking with his guy O'Rourke despite minimal production thus far.

Waterdogs don't have Mazzone this weekend (seems like he was unavailable). Fake will get his first pro action. Two rookies in Borda and Jeff Connor in the lineup. Ryan Conrad out and Scarpello in for Jake Higgins. Curious to see who'll spell Rees at LSM.

Huge defensive shakeup for the Cannons. van Raaphorst picked up and he, and Max Wayne, will get their first game action for them. Finn Sullivan and Matt Rees out. Rall called up for his second game in a row. Still going with Kelly at FO instead of Phaup - but he had a decent game last weekend so I'll lay off this time.

Molloy officially in for Chrome. They needed it. Ferrera at Mid and no Heacock. Thin on offense again - I get the 4 SSDM approach but it did not work well last week. Would like to see Rogers and Williams get some game action. Their offense has potential to feast or famine, they've got to find the right combo. Grill moved to D and Hettinger in the lineup at LSM without Bernhardt.

[Lax Mouse]

Saturday Rosters out:

Archers have Ament back and Rogers in the lineup for the first time this season. Desimone and Aughavin miss out as a result.

Chaos have the biggest shakeups: Cloutier and Fraser are on reserve this weeks. They had a combined 4 goals last weekend. Lindley gets his PLL debut and Dhane Smith makes his return. No Costabile means that Surdick is back in the lineup. Nick Rowlett's play at the X has kept Max Adler from sniffing the lineup so far this season.

Woods will see the debuts of Owen Grant and Brian Tevlin this Saturday. Kennedy gets bumped to reserve and Merle is out - he's played much better this season than I anticipated, but the numbers aren't really in his favor any more. Bertrand is back and Demaio is out. Kirst will be able to build on a strong first game last week. They have an excess player, so someone will need to be cut.

Whips have Bernhardt in for Sallade after the rookie got his first shot at the lineup last week. Jackson Reid is in for Keegan Khan. With Brad Smith still out, someone will need to step up and produce on that first midfield line next to Dordevic and Chanenchuk.

[DeepPocket]

Woods will see the debuts of Owen Grant and Brian Tevlin this Saturday. Kennedy gets bumped to reserve and Merle is out - he's played much better this season than I anticipated, but the numbers aren't really in his favor any more.

What’s the reserve roster rule? Do they travel and are available if an injury occurs?

[Lax Mouse]

What’s the reserve roster rule? Do they travel and are available if an injury occurs?

As far as I understand it, there are a couple of components to it.

If a player is not on the gameday roster or the reserve roster for contiguous 3 week period or more, other teams can claim that player. So the reserve serves as a way for teams to hold on to players that might not crack the gameday roster or who may be unavailable for any number of reasons.

Regarding travel/playing, I'm currently a little unclear. I had thought that being on the reserve roster means that a player does travel with the team, gets to practice with them for the week, and can be called up before the game starts if there is an injury or some other circumstance that makes one of the other 19 players unavailable.

On social media posts yesterday, for example, Jack Myers is clearly practicing with the Chrome this week despite being on the reserve roster. And they can definitely be called up if needed. Last weekend, the Atlas ruled out Danny Logan due to injury the day before the game, and Chet Comizio, who was on the reserve roster, was called up and did play.

However, the commentators had a whole discussion on how Comizio was flown out the night prior and landed just after midnight gameday morning.

So maybe it's up to the players whether they practice with the team or not? But they can definitely be called up.

[lorin]

What’s the reserve roster rule? Do they travel and are available if an injury occurs?

As far as I understand it, there are a couple of components to it.

If a player is not on the gameday roster or the reserve roster for contiguous 3 week period or more, other teams can claim that player. So the reserve serves as a way for teams to hold on to players that might not crack the gameday roster or who may be unavailable for any number of reasons.

Regarding travel/playing, I'm currently a little unclear. I had thought that being on the reserve roster means that a player does travel with the team, gets to practice with them for the week, and can be called up before the game starts if there is an injury or some other circumstance that makes one of the other 19 players unavailable.

On social media posts yesterday, for example, Jack Myers is clearly practicing with the Chrome this week despite being on the reserve roster. And they can definitely be called up if needed. Last weekend, the Atlas ruled out Danny Logan due to injury the day before the game, and Chet Comizio, who was on the reserve roster, was called up and did play.

However, the commentators had a whole discussion on how Comizio was flown out the night prior and landed just after midnight gameday morning.

So maybe it's up to the players whether they practice with the team or not? But they can definitely be called up.

They don’t travel with team, also the reserves get paid $500, other 4 guys no pay.

[Lax Mouse]

Atlas with an absolutely monumental collapse. Offense looked good and their starting midfield had a much better game this week. 6g 5a combined from Costabile/Dennis/Dickson. I know that O'Rourke had a goal and has a history with Pressler, but he makes mistakes consistently and isn't much of a threat. They most certainly need to give Rehfuss a chance in the lineup. Baptiste was phenomenal (86%) but Concannon (36%) really struggled this week. Defense as a whole was atrocious. Miscommunication galore. I'm still baffled as to why CVR, their best off-ball defender, was viewed as the expendable member of that unit. The team is paying for that blunder by Pressler. Richard looks like such a liability on the field. Often beat and almost always involved when there's a miscommunication on a pick, including on of Kelly's late goals.

Credit to the Waterdogs on a spirited comeback, especially when being dominated at the X. Ward struggled to adjust in his first field game back, and the early switch back to DeLuca was a good call. Howeve, the Atlas D was the real culprit in the game's outcome. Connor Kelly with an all time great performance. 3 two pointers and the game winner. The rest of the offense played well enough; they also had some timely transition goals. Nice to see Jeff Connor get his first career goal. They still need some depth at midfield with their current injury situation.

Happy to see Coach Holman get his first W. Nolting and Holman were the stars on offense, but the whole attack line contributed. More consistent contributions from the midfield as a whole should be a point of emphasis. Kirst got the start in net and it looked like CVR did a bit of LSM with Wayne down low. They got burned in transition a few times. But this team has quite the fight. Kavanagh with the game winner (of course).

Chrome still need help on offense. It doesn't help that their jersey numbers are impossible to read, but Handley was almost a non factor. McIntosh had a decent game (first goals of the season for him) and Wisnauskas broke out of his slump. Messenger was their leading scorer out of the midfield. Defensively, they did okay without Bernhardt, but it might be worth it for them to bring in Weyl next time.

[Lax Mouse]

Only caught the very end of the Archers/Chaos, but it seems like Ament's injury flared up again and he was out. A healthy Chaos, with their improved D, is going to be a problem for teams all season.

Whips held on to beat the Woods. They looked unstoppable in the first, but Jack Kelly has a much better second and Ryder Garnsey decided to put in a whole portfolio of SC Top 10 plays. Definitely looked like they took their foot off the gas, but some of those Garnsey goals were ridiculous. Whips still need depth at midfield, and I think the Woods need to make some tough decisions about their offensive direction (do Jones and Perkovic complement their desired style of play, especially with Lee and McLaughlin in the wings). Tevlin and Grant played well in their debuts, though Grant had an unnecessary penalty and had an off day shooting.

[Lax Mouse]

Interesting couple of weeks off with the world games going on. A few major roster moves over the last few weeks:

Atlas move Rehfuss to holdout list without having played a game.
Chrome see Nichtern return and waive Jack Myers - who's immediately picked up by the Whipsnakes.
Chrome also waive John Geppert - who's picked up by Atlas.
Redwoods waive Eli McLaughlin and claim Clarke Petterson from Atlas - but immediately move him to the holdout list.
TJ Malone is returning to Penn St. and will not be seeing the PLL field this year.

A LOT of injury news following the World Games as players recover. Some highlights include:

Chrome without both Jesse Bernhardt and JT Giles-Harris this week. They'll be playing some combo of Manley, Grill, Weyl, Hettinger, and Salama at LSM and D.
Jack Rowlett out for Chaos. Expect to see a lot more of Johnny Surdick.
Ryan Lee is out for the season (again) for the Woods, and Owen Grant is out this week.
Connor Kelly out for the Waterdogs - Thomas McConvey will be making his debut, and Jeff Connor will get more game action.
Rambo out for the Whips - I'd expect to see Myers or Khan (maybe Dordevic) get reps at the 3rd attack spot.
Not World Games related but Ament is out this week as well. Looks like Fields, O'Keefe, and Moore will be starting at attack. Aughavin is in along with Rogers. DeSimone only on the reserve roster.

Other gameday roster notes:
Guterding getting his Atlas debut as O'Rourke sits.
Tye Kurtz is suiting up for the first time for Chaos. Jackson and Perry are on the reserve. Adler gets the nod at FO.
With Nichtern's return, both Molloy and Ferrara are out for Chrome. They still feel a little light on the O.
Woods have DeMaio getting the nod over Kirst . . . which seems interesting from a production perspective.
Waterdogs aren't dressing a FOGO.
Brett Kennedy getting his first game action for the Whips - they've got some players banged up as well.

[lorin]

Interesting couple of weeks off with the world games going on. A few major roster moves over the last few weeks:

Atlas move Rehfuss to holdout list without having played a game.
Chrome see Nichtern return and waive Jack Myers - who's immediately picked up by the Whipsnakes.
Chrome also waive John Geppert - who's picked up by Atlas.
Redwoods waive Eli McLaughlin and claim Clarke Petterson from Atlas - but immediately move him to the holdout list.
TJ Malone is returning to Penn St. and will not be seeing the PLL field this year.

A LOT of injury news following the World Games as players recover. Some highlights include:

Chrome without both Jesse Bernhardt and JT Giles-Harris this week. They'll be playing some combo of Manley, Grill, Weyl, Hettinger, and Salama at LSM and D.
Jack Rowlett out for Chaos. Expect to see a lot more of Johnny Surdick.
Ryan Lee is out for the season (again) for the Woods, and Owen Grant is out this week.
Connor Kelly out for the Waterdogs - Thomas McConvey will be making his debut, and Jeff Connor will get more game action.
Rambo out for the Whips - I'd expect to see Myers or Khan (maybe Dordevic) get reps at the 3rd attack spot.
Not World Games related but Ament is out this week as well. Looks like Fields, O'Keefe, and Moore will be starting at attack. Aughavin is in along with Rogers. DeSimone only on the reserve roster.

Other gameday roster notes:
Guterding getting his Atlas debut as O'Rourke sits.
Tye Kurtz is suiting up for the first time for Chaos. Jackson and Perry are on the reserve. Adler gets the nod at FO.
With Nichtern's return, both Molloy and Ferrara are out for Chrome. They still feel a little light on the O.
Woods have DeMaio getting the nod over Kirst . . . which seems interesting from a production perspective.
Waterdogs aren't dressing a FOGO.
Brett Kennedy getting his first game action for the Whips - they've got some players banged up as well.

The games suck, with the short clock on FO because they think people want the fast pace they ruined the beauty of the game. You now need zero Lax IQ to play in the Pll just get people that run to the cage has fast has possible and shoot.They will be done if they keep 32 second rule

[DeepPocket]

Interesting couple of weeks off with the world games going on. A few major roster moves over the last few weeks:

Atlas move Rehfuss to holdout list without having played a game.
Chrome see Nichtern return and waive Jack Myers - who's immediately picked up by the Whipsnakes.
Chrome also waive John Geppert - who's picked up by Atlas.
Redwoods waive Eli McLaughlin and claim Clarke Petterson from Atlas - but immediately move him to the holdout list.
TJ Malone is returning to Penn St. and will not be seeing the PLL field this year.

A LOT of injury news following the World Games as players recover. Some highlights include:

Chrome without both Jesse Bernhardt and JT Giles-Harris this week. They'll be playing some combo of Manley, Grill, Weyl, Hettinger, and Salama at LSM and D.
Jack Rowlett out for Chaos. Expect to see a lot more of Johnny Surdick.
Ryan Lee is out for the season (again) for the Woods, and Owen Grant is out this week.
Connor Kelly out for the Waterdogs - Thomas McConvey will be making his debut, and Jeff Connor will get more game action.
Rambo out for the Whips - I'd expect to see Myers or Khan (maybe Dordevic) get reps at the 3rd attack spot.
Not World Games related but Ament is out this week as well. Looks like Fields, O'Keefe, and Moore will be starting at attack. Aughavin is in along with Rogers. DeSimone only on the reserve roster.

Other gameday roster notes:
Guterding getting his Atlas debut as O'Rourke sits.
Tye Kurtz is suiting up for the first time for Chaos. Jackson and Perry are on the reserve. Adler gets the nod at FO.
With Nichtern's return, both Molloy and Ferrara are out for Chrome. They still feel a little light on the O.
Woods have DeMaio getting the nod over Kirst . . . which seems interesting from a production perspective.
Waterdogs aren't dressing a FOGO.
Brett Kennedy getting his first game action for the Whips - they've got some players banged up as well.

The games suck, with the short clock on FO because they think people want the fast pace they ruined the beauty of the game. You now need zero Lax IQ to play in the Pll just get people that run to the cage has fast has possible and shoot.They will be done if they keep 32 second rule

While a frustration of mine has been the ever changing rules, I see and respect that they’re trying different things. One could rationalize that the reduced clock is an attempt to chip away at any FOGO style of players. But this is the PLL, even guys who are more prototypical style “FOGOs” can run it down and score.

I don’t think the games suck. I just look forward to the PLL finding one rule set and sticking to it. Even as a lacrosse fan, across the board, it’s exhausting. NCAA rules, PLL rules, PLL Championship Series rules, NLL rules, Worlds rules, Olympic sixes rules. Enough.

[stupefied]

Was hoping for weekend roundup for games this past weekend by Lax Mouse . The World Games were interesting but a PLL interruption nonetheless. fogo rule it what it is this season, many teams adapting on the fly