Cornell 2024

[joewillie78]

JoeWillie --- I'm 99+% sure that the rule isan 80 second shot clock once a team gains offensive possession. The 20 second rule to cross mid-field in still in effect. What's different is that while clearing, you can return from the offensive side of the field to the defensive side, as long as it's within the 20 seconds.
Bottom line, Tully while be an asset in the aspect of the game.

Thanks for the clarification. 20 seconds over midfield compared to 20 seconds to get it in the box is huge, and I also did not know you could go back and forth.
Great info., thanks.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[Chousnake]

wgdsr - interesting, I did not know that prior to this season you could go back to the defensive side of the field as long as it was within 20 seconds. Good pick up.

VF
-Yep, you hit all the points. One observation you pointed out that I hadn't thought about/picked up on before is how our shorties are not pushing out more on alley dodges. It seems like (lately) alley dodgers have been able to score on what are now called "twisters" or by switching from their right hand to their left to get a better shooting angle. Cornell was always so good at cutting the angle on alley dodgers during Coach T's years. He always used to say that he didn't mind opponents taking lots of shots, as long as they were from low % spots on the field.
Also, your point about where our shorties are picking up is particularly important now that the team is shorthanded, playing without Davis and Bozzi. While I typically believe where to pick up should be a function of matchups (i.e., who the defender is and who the dodger is) not now - play it more conservatively. Why have ss's pick up way out when they're already logging a ton of minutes. A dodger can't hurt you from 30-40 yards out.
-I would not be surprised given the need to pole Goldstein, that teams will be a shortie on Long and double pole the 1st team mids. I recall that Yale put a shortie on Long last year...and did not work out well (for Yale).

I would think teams will pole Goldstein, Long , Kirst and Kelleher. That would leave SSDMs on First and Wirtheim. I'm not sure which of the 2nd Middies will draw the pole. In any event, it is going to open opportunities for First and Wirtheim. As VF mentioned, First needs to take better, high percentage shots (which should not be a problem because he showed that skill earlier this season). That 6 man group is going to be hard to stop and should just get better the more Goldstein plays and the more the other 5 adjust to him at X and Long on the wing.

[Chousnake]

JoeWillie --- I'm 99+% sure that the rule isan 80 second shot clock once a team gains offensive possession. The 20 second rule to cross mid-field in still in effect. What's different is that while clearing, you can return from the offensive side of the field to the defensive side, as long as it's within the 20 seconds.
Bottom line, Tully while be an asset in the aspect of the game.

Thanks for the clarification. 20 seconds over midfield compared to 20 seconds to get it in the box is huge, and I also did not know you could go back and forth.
Great info., thanks.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

I believe the get it in the box rule (30 seconds to do so) was eliminated in 2018 when the shot clock went into effect. It's been 20 seconds to clear midfield since 2018. Ierlan and Knust are just not nearly as comfortable carrying the ball as Tully.

[Laxfan1977]

Loved seeing the Freshmen step up against Princeton

#3 is a warrior

I remain highly concerned about the defense… we look clueless

And I hope our SSDMs heal fast

Agreed, we need to get healthy at SSDM. The SSDM’s hurt us during the Princeton runs. Goldstein was a joy to watch operating from X?

[wgdsr]

JoeWillie --- I'm 99+% sure that the rule isan 80 second shot clock once a team gains offensive possession. The 20 second rule to cross mid-field in still in effect. What's different is that while clearing, you can return from the offensive side of the field to the defensive side, as long as it's within the 20 seconds.
Bottom line, Tully while be an asset in the aspect of the game.

Thanks for the clarification. 20 seconds over midfield compared to 20 seconds to get it in the box is huge, and I also did not know you could go back and forth.
Great info., thanks.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

I believe the get it in the box rule (30 seconds to do so) was eliminated in 2018 when the shot clock went into effect. It's been 20 seconds to clear midfield since 2018. Ierlan and Knust are just not nearly as comfortable carrying the ball as Tully.

yes, the touch it in the box rule was eliminated in 2019 when the shot clock came in, as it was no longer necessary. refs had a 20 second timer on their belt, and then whenever the team crossed over, did a hand count to 10 for the box. that's still instituted at the h.s. level that don't use nc$$ rules. the 20 second clear rule has been around for at least 20 years, and likely well before.

[cornelllax22]

Great to see the Freshman step up. A lot of comments on the SSDMs. We are on our 5th and 6th string dmids. Tough position when offenses are designed to attack them. Look at what Goldstein did to short sticks. Ate them up.
13 rarely gets beat 1 on 1 especially up top. Stopped Mackesey in his tracks twice. Doesn’t make mistakes on clears and great in transition. 77 is young and aggressive. Makes some mistakes but is awesome in transition as well and a physical defender. 6 has struggled a bit but stepped up big at the end of Princeton game. Having 2 is going to help with his athleticism and size. From what I heard, 5 is out for a while if not season. 7 I’m not sure about. Short stick are going to give up goals, it’s the name of the game. But any team that I’m using 5th and 6th dmids would be in the same position.

[drunkmonkey30]

Negatives: our SSDMs are - no surprise - a big concern. Yesterday we were missing our top two - 7 and 5. Of course there will be a drop off . 13 and 77 are now the top options. They each struggled in spots - but also had some good moments. 6 continues to struggle (although his play at the end was excellent). 38 got one run and waved at the dodger as he ran past him. The addition of 2 may be very important. He is an elite athlete and can help the team in a number of ways. But my beef is this: our scheme often positions the SSDMs to fail. They are guarding fast players 25-30 yards from the goal and letting them get a head of steam. They also press out without purpose at the worst times - late in the shot clock they sometimes overplay dodgers down the alleys and let them get to the middle of the field for good looks!! Why!! Just ride them down the alleys or do anything to prevent them from getting topside middle. So much work to do here. We need 7 back and 2 to continue to improve - and with 13 and 77 (and 6 in spots) it can be an effective unit. One other key thing: the SSDMS need to make the simple/correct pass in unsettled breaks. Don't shoot except in rare instances. On one play 77 had 30 all alone for a layup goal in Q4 and took an atrocious shot. No back up and ball went to Tigers. That goal was critical and we wasted it. Great teams do not do that!!!! Sad to say this - but that play felt like the OT faceoff v Michigan last year. They need to be coached up hard that they should not shoot in that spot unless there is literally nothing else!!!

13 was much improved this week, especially in the 2 man game. In the Penn State game, he was caught 1/2 way in between switching and staying with his man multiple times, led directly to 5-6 goals. He got beat a couple of time 1 on 1 against Princeton, which is not unexpected for a ssdm. But did a much better job on the 2 man game. Let's hope he keeps it up.

77 is a stud. He rarely gets beat and is decent on the 2 man game. He gets a little lost on 2nd slides in the rotation, but that will come.

Agree totally with the comments about pressing too far out and not turning dodgers into shooters by forcing them down the outside.

[wahoomurf]

The geniuses behind the mikes finally finally figured out that Matt Tully is in goal. There is a subtle difference between #19 and #55. Meanwhile, Carc continues to love the sound of his voice. He actually said, "Cornell has one of the best fanbases if not one of the best fanbases." LOL!

OK Carc...you are correct. Kelleher was indeed a good football player in High School. He led McArthur to a victory over Garden City during the regular season in 2019. That win broke a Garden City win streak and was McArthur's 3rd victory over Garden City in the 39 times they've played. GC beat McArthur in that year's Championship.

Garden City has four chaps on Cornell Lacrosse team who were pretty good FB players as well.

[laxfan1313]

Kirst, Long, Goldstein, Firth, Wirtheim & Kelleher comprise one of the most potent attack & 1st line middie combinations the Big Red has has in a long time. You can't pole everybody! Caddigan, Nikolic, Piatelli, Sheehan, Blake, Holmes, Dalton, Lombardi are effective backups. Now, let's hope Davis is back in action soon!

[Ezra White]

...

Also, late in the game when I believe Princeton was up 14-12, and a shot clearly hit the post dead on and rebounded out to mid-field. If that shot goes in, and Tully was clearly beaten, Princeton probably wins.

The margin of error is so small in these games, and you know me, I'm a big believer in things evening out in the end, so I'm sure the Denver debacle will be made up for somewhere in the Big Reds future.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

No wonder you're a Jets fan. Think of all the great quarterbacks you have to look forward to.

[wrapcheque]

The geniuses behind the mikes finally finally figured out that Matt Tully is in goal. There is a subtle difference between #19 and #55. Meanwhile, Carc continues to love the sound of his voice. He actually said, "Cornell has one of the best fanbases if not one of the best fanbases." LOL!

OK Carc...you are correct. Kelleher was indeed a good football player in High School. He led McArthur to a victory over Garden City during the regular season in 2019. That win broke a Garden City win streak and was McArthur's 3rd victory over Garden City in the 39 times they've played. GC beat McArthur in that year's Championship.

Garden City has four chaps on Cornell Lacrosse team who were pretty good FB players as well.

And 3 players who were Tom Flatley Award winners as top Lacrosse-Football players in Nassau County - Hugh Kelleher, Jack Cascadden and Brendan Staub.

[Ezra White]

Earlier I posted a comment about Goldstein's slight size. And as others have said, Princeton's coaches weren't prepared for him (they should have watched his highlights on YouTube), but you can bet Shay and the rest won't make that mistake again.

They also may notice that his approach changed a bit after Princeton assigned a long-stick to mark him.

Meanwhile, I'd be willing to bet that this week Cornell's coaching staff is working on innovative pick patterns in which one of our more burly midfielders sets a pick for RG30 so he can eat up the shorties that switch to him.

[joewillie78]

Earlier I posted a comment about Goldstein's slight size. And as others have said, Princeton's coaches weren't prepared for him (they should have watched his highlights on YouTube), but you can bet Shay and the rest won't make that mistake again.

They also may notice that his approach changed a bit after Princeton assigned a long-stick to mark him.

Meanwhile, I'd be willing to bet that this week Cornell's coaching staff is working on innovative pick patterns in which one of our more burly midfielders sets a pick for RG30 so he can eat up the shorties that switch to him.

He reminds a bit of Sowers. Now I'm not saying that he is in the same category as Sowers, who was the best pure dodger I ever saw. Sowers broke more ankles than anyone and his change of direction was incredible, but he like Goldstein was very small in stature and basically uncoverable by a shortie.

RG30's dodging was on full display on the his goal that tied it, as he simply tied his defender in knots while dodging behind the cage, which was very Sowers like.

Can't wait to see him live at the Kopf Saturday at noon against a great Yale team.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[coda]

Earlier I posted a comment about Goldstein's slight size. And as others have said, Princeton's coaches weren't prepared for him (they should have watched his highlights on YouTube), but you can bet Shay and the rest won't make that mistake again.

They also may notice that his approach changed a bit after Princeton assigned a long-stick to mark him.

Meanwhile, I'd be willing to bet that this week Cornell's coaching staff is working on innovative pick patterns in which one of our more burly midfielders sets a pick for RG30 so he can eat up the shorties that switch to him.

He reminds a bit of Sowers. Now I'm not saying that he is in the same category as Sowers, who was the best pure dodger I ever saw. Sowers broke more ankles than anyone and his change of direction was incredible, but he like Goldstein was very small in stature and basically uncoverable by a shortie.

RG30's dodging was on full display on the his goal that tied it, as he simply tied his defender in knots while dodging behind the cage, which was very Sowers like.

Can't wait to see him live at the Kopf Saturday at noon against a great Yale team.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

I will be quite surprised. It was only one game, but I watched him last year and he had a bad game. Granted he likely had a better pole on him in that game (Q Kilrain), than vs Princeton.

[joewillie78]

...

Also, late in the game when I believe Princeton was up 14-12, and a shot clearly hit the post dead on and rebounded out to mid-field. If that shot goes in, and Tully was clearly beaten, Princeton probably wins.

The margin of error is so small in these games, and you know me, I'm a big believer in things evening out in the end, so I'm sure the Denver debacle will be made up for somewhere in the Big Reds future.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

No wonder you're a Jets fan. Think of all the great quarterbacks you have to look forward to.

I was looking forward to this last one we got from GB and in 4 plays, he's out for the season. The list is long and painful, and in the infamous 83 draft, we passed on at least 2 HOF's to draft Obrien. We took Wilson when we could have had Allen. Damn JoeWillie, I love him but he forever cursed us in SB3.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[Chousnake]

...

Also, late in the game when I believe Princeton was up 14-12, and a shot clearly hit the post dead on and rebounded out to mid-field. If that shot goes in, and Tully was clearly beaten, Princeton probably wins.

The margin of error is so small in these games, and you know me, I'm a big believer in things evening out in the end, so I'm sure the Denver debacle will be made up for somewhere in the Big Reds future.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

No wonder you're a Jets fan. Think of all the great quarterbacks you have to look forward to.

I was looking forward to this last one we got from GB and in 4 plays, he's out for the season. The list is long and painful, and in the infamous 83 draft, we passed on at least 2 HOF's to draft Obrien. We took Wilson when we could have had Allen. Damn JoeWillie, I love him but he forever cursed us in SB3.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

You’re making it worse than it was. The only QB they passed on in ‘83 was Marino. Elway and Kelly went before they picked ( as did non HOFers Eason and Blackledge). The Jets took Darnold before Allen, not Wilson. The 2019 and 2022 QB classes have both been underwhelming

[joewillie78]

...

Also, late in the game when I believe Princeton was up 14-12, and a shot clearly hit the post dead on and rebounded out to mid-field. If that shot goes in, and Tully was clearly beaten, Princeton probably wins.

The margin of error is so small in these games, and you know me, I'm a big believer in things evening out in the end, so I'm sure the Denver debacle will be made up for somewhere in the Big Reds future.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

No wonder you're a Jets fan. Think of all the great quarterbacks you have to look forward to.

I was looking forward to this last one we got from GB and in 4 plays, he's out for the season. The list is long and painful, and in the infamous 83 draft, we passed on at least 2 HOF's to draft Obrien. We took Wilson when we could have had Allen. Damn JoeWillie, I love him but he forever cursed us in SB3.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

You’re making it worse than it was. The only QB they passed on in ‘83 was Marino. Elway and Kelly went before they picked ( as did non HOFers Eason and Blackledge). The Jets took Darnold before Allen, not Wilson. The 2019 and 2022 QB classes have both been underwhelming

I'm a Jet fan. We always make it worse than it was. We love to wallow in misery. Maybe Rodgers new offensive line can keep him upright this year, and off the injured list. Whoops, their I go forgetting its "same old Jets".

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[faircornell]

Kirst, Long, Goldstein, Firth, Wirtheim & Kelleher comprise one of the most potent attack & 1st line middie combinations the Big Red has has in a long time. You can't pole everybody! Caddigan, Nikolic, Piatelli, Sheehan, Blake, Holmes, Dalton, Lombardi are effective backups. Now, let's hope Davis is back in action soon!

+1000 ... we've got to value possession and be great at shot selection ... while I'm being a bit repetitive, Rodriguez at FOGO is my biggest worry. We need to have the ball to score.

[laxfan1313]

Kirst, Long, Goldstein, Firth, Wirtheim & Kelleher comprise one of the most potent attack & 1st line middie combinations the Big Red has has in a long time. You can't pole everybody! Caddigan, Nikolic, Piatelli, Sheehan, Blake, Holmes, Dalton, Lombardi are effective backups. Now, let's hope Davis is back in action soon!

+1000 ... we've got to value possession and be great at shot selection ... while I'm being a bit repetitive, Rodriguez at FOGO is my biggest worry. We need to have the ball to score.

The wings need to get ground balls. Coach Moran famously said the only stat he monitored was ground balls. I had many conversations with him in which I expressed concern about an upcoming opponent's face off man. He always replied that faceoff stats were irrelevant. Just win the ground ball battle and everything falls into place. That means if the Big Red initially loses the faceoff, what happens next is more important. Perhaps the better stat would be the percentage of faceoffs that result in a team arriving at the opponent's attack zone with the ball. Looking forward to great wing play on Saturday and tenacious riding as well as breaking Yale's 10 man ride. Tully is the best goalie for that purpose. He is not afraid to carry the ball upfield.

[coda]

I think this game really comes down to who is going to play some defense. My model has this 19 - 16.5 Yale. Both teams are averaging around 16 goals scored per game. Both are allowing around 13 goals allowed (Yale 13, Cornell 13.7). If one of them can hold the opponent under 15 goals, they should win the game.