Denver Pioneers 2024

[henryben]

Pioneers announced that they are getting an Covid extra year from seven senior players - Sillstrop, Connell, Edinger, Stathakis, Hangland, Mercurio and DiBennedetto.

https://denverpioneers.com/news/2023/8/ ... 0UE6HINtwg

This should help enormously in Brown's first season...

And may contribute to the issues Rutgers and tOSU had this past season.

Difference is, all these kids are current players (not transfers) and from what I know and hear, well-liked and respected by their teammates...

[henryben]

I would expect almost zero significant changes for the Pios this year. Brown was running the show before and he will continue to do so. Tierney was clearly focused on the officiating and seemed oblivious on tape about who was subbing in and out. Brown had a few good games where they tried to get the bench some playing time, but by the time the conference play kicked in, they turtled and rode the starters even when it seemed like they should have tried something new. St. Johns game is a good example. I've got money on Denver looking for a new head coach in 3 years and a new D coach summer of '24.

Interesting take, westlax.

I think there are bound to be some changes now that Brownie is the man in charge. Tierney was as 'old school' as they come, and while that does create a culture of conformity, loyalty and service to others, I am thinking that DU might now be keeping some of that core, but moving toward a bit less rigidity under Brown. If that happens, perhaps the innate creativity of many of these players might be flowing a bit more, and that could create more fun, more goals, more transition and unsettled opportunities - in short, the kind of program where players want to risk and grow.

On the other hand, you could be right. DU has been drifting down from elite level to just a good college program since 2017, and recruiting has suffered as a result. If Brown can't get DU back to elite status in 3-4 years, I think a housecleaning will be in order. DU is budgeted to be among the elite in sport, and since the Pios were already elite from 2011 to 2017 or so, there will be new pressure to get there again. Denver is very much a bandwagon town, and when the team stumbles, the fans can easily find other things to occupy their time. DU had a real sense of beyond-campus momentum in the city a decade ago, when they were playing regular season games against Notre Dame and drawing 12,000-15,000 fans (and up to 2,000 students) to mile high stadium. Now, Notre Dame has dropped DU from its schedule, and the mile high games are no more. It's time to get the program's mojo back...LFG!

Do you think the recruiting has suffered b/c of their record, or b/c there's more competition for top prospects from CA, Canada, etc.? If Mark Matthews, Wes Berg, Tyler Pace, etc. were HS juniors today, they'd be much more sought after by the top traditional programs than they were 10 yrs ago. Personally, I think Brown was able to play Moneyball on the recruiting front for awhile, and that "market inefficiency" is almost gone.

[10stone5]

One way to look at it,

the DeMaio brothers,
two superb players out of California who very well may have gone to Denver going back, say, 10 years.

[oldbartman]

Pioneers announced that they are getting an Covid extra year from seven senior players - Sillstrop, Connell, Edinger, Stathakis, Hangland, Mercurio and DiBennedetto.

https://denverpioneers.com/news/2023/8/ ... 0UE6HINtwg

This should help enormously in Brown's first season...

And may contribute to the issues Rutgers and tOSU had this past season.

Difference is, all these kids are current players (not transfers) and from what I know and hear, well-liked and respected by their teammates...

HB, I should've been a bit clearer. I was referring to the freshmen on those teams having to realize the line in front of them got longer. It's a problem for any team that has more than a few 5th years, my Statesmen included.

[henryben]

One way to look at it,

the DeMaio brothers,
two superb players out of California who very well may have gone to Denver going back, say, 10 years.

Right.

Or someone like Brad Sharp, would Yale have taken him 10 years ago?

Lots of examples.

[henryben]

Pioneers announced that they are getting an Covid extra year from seven senior players - Sillstrop, Connell, Edinger, Stathakis, Hangland, Mercurio and DiBennedetto.

https://denverpioneers.com/news/2023/8/ ... 0UE6HINtwg

This should help enormously in Brown's first season...

And may contribute to the issues Rutgers and tOSU had this past season.

Difference is, all these kids are current players (not transfers) and from what I know and hear, well-liked and respected by their teammates...

HB, I should've been a bit clearer. I was referring to the freshmen on those teams having to realize the line in front of them got longer. It's a problem for any team that has more than a few 5th years, my Statesmen included.

Oh, no doubt. But it all ends after this season, right?

[oldbartman]

HenryB, I believe/hope so.

[Puck Swami]

Do you think the recruiting has suffered b/c of their record, or b/c there's more competition for top prospects from CA, Canada, etc.? If Mark Matthews, Wes Berg, Tyler Pace, etc. were HS juniors today, they'd be much more sought after by the top traditional programs than they were 10 yrs ago. Personally, I think Brown was able to play Moneyball on the recruiting front for awhile, and that "market inefficiency" is almost gone.

Both. Ten years ago, it was the three "Cs" - Canada, California and Colorado that the Pioneers used as primary recruiting grounds. Once DU won the NCAA title in 2015, other schools started seriously battling for recruits in these three places, and DU no longer has its pick from those areas. This year, there are ZERO incoming freshmen from California or Colorado and only one Canadian. Instead, DU has recruits coming from Washington state, Idaho and Florida as well as more traditional hotbeds like New York, NJ and Ohio.

As for the record, DU has not been to a final four since 2017. DU had no all-Americans year, and only one third-teamer in 2022 (Hannah). Recruiting has dropped off markedly in recent years.

As for moneyball, its tougher for DU when it perhaps should be easier. I think when the NCAA relaxed its scholarship stacking rule in 2020, some private schools have really taken advantage of it, but I don't think DU is one of them, for whatever reasons. I base that on hearsay and what I see on the field, but perhaps others have more insight on this...

[henryben]

Do you think the recruiting has suffered b/c of their record, or b/c there's more competition for top prospects from CA, Canada, etc.? If Mark Matthews, Wes Berg, Tyler Pace, etc. were HS juniors today, they'd be much more sought after by the top traditional programs than they were 10 yrs ago. Personally, I think Brown was able to play Moneyball on the recruiting front for awhile, and that "market inefficiency" is almost gone.

Both. Ten years ago, it was the three "Cs" - Canada, California and Colorado that the Pioneers used as primary recruiting grounds. Once DU won the NCAA title in 2015, other schools started seriously battling for recruits in these three places, and DU no longer has its pick from those areas. This year, there are ZERO incoming freshmen from California or Colorado and only one Canadian. Instead, DU has recruits coming from Washington state, Idaho and Florida as well as more traditional hotbeds like New York, NJ and Ohio.

As for the record, DU has not been to a final four since 2017. DU had no all-Americans year, and only one third-teamer in 2022 (Hannah). Recruiting has dropped off markedly in recent years.

As for moneyball, its tougher for DU when it perhaps should be easier. I think when the NCAA relaxed its scholarship stacking rule in 2020, some private schools have really taken advantage of it, but I don't think DU is one of them, for whatever reasons. I base that on hearsay and what I see on the field, but perhaps others have more insight on this...

By Moneyball, I just meant that Brownie was way ahead of the curve on getting great talent from non-hotbed spots, partly b/c the traditional powerhouses looked down their noses at those kids and/or didn't get to see them enough in person. Both those things have changed and that market inefficiency is mostly gone now.

[GaitsRightHand]

This year, there are ZERO incoming freshmen from California or Colorado and only one Canadian.

2024 recruiting class has 6 recruits from Colorado, and all played Denver Elite.

[cherrylax]

Do you think the recruiting has suffered b/c of their record, or b/c there's more competition for top prospects from CA, Canada, etc.? If Mark Matthews, Wes Berg, Tyler Pace, etc. were HS juniors today, they'd be much more sought after by the top traditional programs than they were 10 yrs ago. Personally, I think Brown was able to play Moneyball on the recruiting front for awhile, and that "market inefficiency" is almost gone.

Both. Ten years ago, it was the three "Cs" - Canada, California and Colorado that the Pioneers used as primary recruiting grounds. Once DU won the NCAA title in 2015, other schools started seriously battling for recruits in these three places, and DU no longer has its pick from those areas. This year, there are ZERO incoming freshmen from California or Colorado and only one Canadian. Instead, DU has recruits coming from Washington state, Idaho and Florida as well as more traditional hotbeds like New York, NJ and Ohio.

As for the record, DU has not been to a final four since 2017. DU had no all-Americans year, and only one third-teamer in 2022 (Hannah). Recruiting has dropped off markedly in recent years.

As for moneyball, its tougher for DU when it perhaps should be easier. I think when the NCAA relaxed its scholarship stacking rule in 2020, some private schools have really taken advantage of it, but I don't think DU is one of them, for whatever reasons. I base that on hearsay and what I see on the field, but perhaps others have more insight on this...

Can we also talk about the fact that DU is 80K a year now??? I know for a fact that some of these transfers that rutgers are paying 4k a year to go to school, and can't all possibly be on scholarship.

As much as I love the Pio's Athletic programs, it seems like the school is really just in it for the short term $$$. I've heard rumblings that we are one of the few universities that doesn't allow an athlete to take merit money as well as athletic money. For example one of my sons received an athletic scholarship and was a decent student so also got some academic money. DU won't allow that, which I'm sure makes recruiting even more of a challenge. Add in B10 schools NLI money and you have a real problem on your hands.

[GoPios]

DU players can get both athletic and merit scholarship money.

[westlax]

Right? And a new D coach? Denver has a top 10 defense.

If I'm correct, DU ranked near dead last in two key defensive stat categories, man down defense and caused turnovers. Last year, they couldn't really stop anyone. The UNC game highlighted that pretty well, when Malik doubled the ball in overtime leaving CHRIS GRAY wide open to score the game winning goal. How do you leave Chris Gray wide open in overtime? Gallant should have been fired right then and there.

[cherrylax]

Doing a bit of deep diving it looks like the number 25 is still available on the 2024 roster. Could that potentially be Malik returning and just not on the roster as of now? Seems like a number guys would want.

[cherrylax]

No 2025 commitments yet. Meanwhile Georgetown's at 4, Notre Dame at 5, and Ohio state at 6.

Think we'll start to see the power 5 schools start to swoop up top recruits earlier with the enticement of NIL $$$.

[10stone5]

More of a project, but I could see a guy like this with the Pios, with a Utah, he’s got size and skill,

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/recruiti ... e=analysis

[cherrylax]

DU scrimmaging Utah and CC On Saturday the 7th, should be a good preseason test to get everyone involved early. Heard overall fall practices have been good and Freshman are making an immediate impact.

Up to 2 commits for the 25's, both Poles.

[Puck Swami]

Pios get a new field for 2024. Like the idea, but the execution seems a bit garish to me...

[Farfromgeneva]

No 2025 commitments yet. Meanwhile Georgetown's at 4, Notre Dame at 5, and Ohio state at 6.

Think we'll start to see the power 5 schools start to swoop up top recruits earlier with the enticement of NIL $$$.

Got one I he kept an eye on who reclassified from 24 named Grant Ramsey. D at Deerfield but from the Midwest.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/recruiti ... commitment

[cherrylax]

Pios get a new field for 2024. Like the idea, but the execution seems a bit garish to me...

Really wonder how many ankles will be rolled on white lacrosse balls in the white mountains...