All Things Russia & Ukraine

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DocBarrister
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The Cold War never ended. We never won it. We are still fighting it.

Post by DocBarrister »

old salt wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:54 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:49 pm You oppose NATO in general. You have made that abundantly clear in countless posts. Your post of Hawley’s article is just the most recent example.

Who exactly are you trying to fool around here?

DocBarrister :roll:
Liar ! Slander ! I have posted repeatedly that I want to restore NATO to what it was when I was part of it when we won the Cold War.
That’s another misperception of yours that we need to correct.

In retrospect, we never “won the Cold War.” It may have taken a brief hiatus, but Putin resumed it to indulge his megalomaniacal delusions of being the Second Coming of Peter the Great.

President Biden is doing a fine job of reunifying NATO and expanding it.

Putin’s criminality and brutality has obviously helped, too.

The Cold War never ended. We never won it. We are still fighting it.

If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand what is happening right now in Ukraine.

DocBarrister
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old salt
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Re: The Cold War never ended. We never won it. We are still fighting it.

Post by old salt »

DocBarrister wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:00 am
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:54 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:49 pm You oppose NATO in general. You have made that abundantly clear in countless posts. Your post of Hawley’s article is just the most recent example.

Who exactly are you trying to fool around here?

DocBarrister :roll:
Liar ! Slander ! I have posted repeatedly that I want to restore NATO to what it was when I was part of it when we won the Cold War.
That’s another misperception of yours that we need to correct.

In retrospect, we never “won the Cold War.” It may have taken a brief hiatus, but Putin resumed it to indulge his megalomaniacal delusions of being the Second Coming of Peter the Great.

President Biden is doing a fine job of reunifying NATO and expanding it.

Putin’s criminality and brutality has obviously helped, too.

The Cold War never ended. We never won it. We are still fighting it.

If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand what is happening right now in Ukraine.

DocBarrister
Putin's doing more to unite NATO than Biden ever could.

How we doing in the global war of Capitalism vs Communism ? Communism is dead.

As capitalists, China is now kicking our ass & Russia holds the EU hostage in their captive energy market.
We can't even make our own microchips anymore & our energy surplus remains now untapped & underground.
LNG from the long idle Cove Pt terminal in SoMd on the Chesapeake could have been powering the EU this winter.
It sat idle for years until the Trump admin approved it's use for exports.
https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvani ... rt-growth/
DocBarrister
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Re: The Cold War never ended. We never won it. We are still fighting it.

Post by DocBarrister »

old salt wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:13 am
DocBarrister wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:00 am
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:54 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:49 pm You oppose NATO in general. You have made that abundantly clear in countless posts. Your post of Hawley’s article is just the most recent example.

Who exactly are you trying to fool around here?

DocBarrister :roll:
Liar ! Slander ! I have posted repeatedly that I want to restore NATO to what it was when I was part of it when we won the Cold War.
That’s another misperception of yours that we need to correct.

In retrospect, we never “won the Cold War.” It may have taken a brief hiatus, but Putin resumed it to indulge his megalomaniacal delusions of being the Second Coming of Peter the Great.

President Biden is doing a fine job of reunifying NATO and expanding it.

Putin’s criminality and brutality has obviously helped, too.

The Cold War never ended. We never won it. We are still fighting it.

If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand what is happening right now in Ukraine.

DocBarrister
Putin's doing more to unite NATO than Biden ever could.

How we doing in the global war of Capitalism vs Communism ? Communism is dead.

As capitalists, China is now kicking our ass & Russia holds the EU hostage in their captive energy market.
We can't even make our own microchips anymore & our energy surplus remains now untapped & underground.
LNG from the idle Cove Pt terminal in SoMd on the Chesapeake could have been powering the EU this winter.
There you go again … praising Putin over whichever Democrat happens to be in the White House. You did that when Obama was President, and now you’re doing the same with Biden.

There has never been “Communism.” Russia and the USSR have always been a fascist oligarchy (Khrushchev) or a fascist dictatorship (Stalin, Putin). Same for China. Same for the nascent Trump fascist movement.

China is already in decline. Their disastrous policies are going to reduce China’s population by over 300 million people in the coming decades. China’s working age population is already shrinking while it is still a poor (by per capita measures) nation. Like the USSR, China is embarking on an expensive arms race that will eventually prove to be too expensive for China to maintain.

Meanwhile, Russia’s economy is based on a dying fossil fuel sector. California’s economy is much larger than Russia’s. The United States has more than double the population of Russia’s which is closer in size to Japan. Putin’s cruel folly has exposed Russia’s conventional military as a third-tier force. It will take decades for Russia to recover economically from the disaster in Ukraine.

Things are not going to end well for Russia and China, but in all likelihood, the Cold War will probably continue for at least several more generations.

It’s a sobering thought, but it is what it is.

DocBarrister
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by a fan »

DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:18 pm
Maybe amateur armchair generals like you can give them a break while they attempt to do something completely unprecedented… a transition that we Americans could never, ever accomplish under similar circumstances.

DocBarrister :?
Amateur? And you're a (snicker) professional? A professional what, Doc? You think personal insults and name calling are game now?

Wanna retract that?
DocBarrister
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by DocBarrister »

a fan wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:51 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:18 pm
Maybe amateur armchair generals like you can give them a break while they attempt to do something completely unprecedented… a transition that we Americans could never, ever accomplish under similar circumstances.

DocBarrister :?
Amateur? And you're a (snicker) professional? A professional what, Doc? You think personal insults and name calling are game now?

Wanna retract that?
No, the professionals are the political, economic, national security, and military leaders of the United States and European Allies who understand that transitioning away from Russian oil and natural gas will take time and are permitting nations undergoing that arduous transition the time they need to complete it.

You (snicker) are the one with the temerity to challenge their professional judgment.

I’m the one explaining why their decision was a pragmatic and necessary one.

Who is the one acting with the delusion of an armchair general?

DocBarrister :?
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by a fan »

DocBarrister wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:04 am
a fan wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:51 am
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:18 pm
Maybe amateur armchair generals like you can give them a break while they attempt to do something completely unprecedented… a transition that we Americans could never, ever accomplish under similar circumstances.

DocBarrister :?
Amateur? And you're a (snicker) professional? A professional what, Doc? You think personal insults and name calling are game now?

Wanna retract that?
No, the professionals are the political, economic, national security, and military leaders of the United States and European Allies who understand that transitioning away from Russian oil and natural gas will take time and are permitting nations undergoing that arduous transition the time they need to complete it.

You (snicker) are the one with the temerity to challenge their professional judgment.
Yep.

Know why?

Because I'm not the one dumb enough to buy essential goods from Putin, rendering NATO powerless to exert economic pressure on Putin.

Result? Ukrainian children are being blown to pieces using money from these same "professionals" who were too stupid to get their energy elsewhere over the last 30 years. And you, naturally, think this is great.

That's your idea of a smart professional, is it? These idiots are STILL sending money to Putin's war machine.

And you're cheering them on because you're too arrogant to stop and think for five minutes. And is the US still trading with Putin? You bet, Doc. But you didn't notice that, either.
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

...& the professionals made the decision to decommission their clean nuc power plants because they could rely on an endless supply of Russian natural gas until they figured out how to create carbon free green energy. Geniuses.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:54 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:49 pm You oppose NATO in general. You have made that abundantly clear in countless posts. Your post of Hawley’s article is just the most recent example.

Who exactly are you trying to fool around here?

DocBarrister :roll:
Liar ! Slander ! I have posted repeatedly that I want to restore NATO to what it was when I was part of it when we won the Cold War.
Sort of like being pro “MAGA” doesn’t mean you want to turn the clock back in this country. You just want to restore traditional American values as you are proud of your heritage.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

Serbia & Kosovo are about to go to war again. This time over license plates.
Maybe we should intervene there again. We can't allow another war between Slavic cousins without us.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62373149
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... explained/ {paywall}
Tensions between Kosovo and Serbia: Why NATO is ‘prepared to intervene’

Kosovo and Serbia — two Balkan countries that fought a bloody war in the 1990s and have been living in uneasy coexistence ever since — are once again at odds, this time over moves by Kosovo to force ethnic Serbs living in its northern regions to obtain license plates issued by Kosovar authorities.

The seemingly mundane move is anything but, as the status of ethnic Serbs living near the border between Serbia and Kosovo is at the heart of a protracted conflict between the two governments. Kosovo declared its independence from Serbia in February 2008, but Serbia still considers Kosovo its province.
“The overall security situation in the Northern municipalities of Kosovo is tense,” the NATO peacekeeping force in Kosovo said Sunday in a statement. Serbian President Aleksandar Vucic said, “We have never been in a more difficult situation.”

So, what is going on?
What are the tensions in Kosovo about?
The latest flare-up in tensions is tied to new rules over license plates and cross-border travel documents. Under regulations that were meant to take effect Aug. 1, ethnic Serbs living in villages in northern Kosovo would have had to apply for license plates issued by Kosovar authorities for their vehicles. Since the late 1990s war, some in that population had used Serbian license plates with a different status. Authorities in Kosovo tolerated the dual-track system to preserve the peace but said last year they would no longer do so.
Another rule would have forced Serbian nationals visiting Kosovo to get an additional entry-exit document from Kosovar authorities at the border. Previously, they could enter without it. Serbia imposes a similar rule on Kosovars seeking to cross its borders.
The government in Kosovo’s capital, Pristina, has been trying for years to assert full institutional control over the ethnic Serb-majority areas of northern Kosovo, but it has faced fierce resistance from residents who still consider their communities part of Serbia.
On Sunday, ethnic Serbs blocked roads in northern Kosovo to protest the new rules, forcing Kosovar authorities to shut down two border crossings, Jarinje and Brnjak. Kosovar police said shots were fired in their direction during the protests, although no one was hurt, Reuters reported. Belgrade argues that the new rules violate a 2011 agreement on freedom of movement between Kosovo and Serbia.
Kosovo’s allies, including the United States and European Union, called for calm and urged Pristina to delay implementation of the new rules. Late on Sunday, Kosovo agreed to a 30-day delay if all roadblocks were removed. Albin Kurti, Kosovo’s prime minister, accused the protesters of trying to “destabilize” Kosovo and charged that Serbia was orchestrating “aggressive acts” during the protests.

Why is NATO in Kosovo, and what is its mandate there?
NATO has had a peacekeeping force in Kosovo, known as Kosovo Force (KFOR), since June 1999. The creation of the force was approved by a U.N. Security Council resolution.
Its initial goal was to prevent conflict from restarting between ethnic Serbs and Albanians after NATO and Yugoslavia signed a peace agreement allowing for the return of ethnic Albanians displaced by the war.
Since then, the force has gradually been reduced, from roughly 50,000 troops to fewer than 4,000 today. In its own words, it works to maintain security and stability in the region, support humanitarian groups and civil society, train and support the Kosovo Security Force and “support the development of a stable, democratic, multiethnic and peaceful Kosovo.”

How is this related to the Russia-Ukraine war?
The Balkans have not escaped the reverberations of the war in Ukraine.
Kosovo has supported Ukraine since Russia’s invasion, which Kurti, the prime minister, called “an attack against us all.” Ukraine has not recognized Kosovo’s independence.
Russia, a longtime ally of Serbia, does not recognize Kosovo as an independent state, either, and has echoed Serbia’s president in blaming the government in Pristina for the renewed tensions in northern Kosovo.
Maria Zakharova, a spokeswoman for the Russian Foreign Ministry, accused Kosovo on Sunday of using the new licensing laws and identification documents to discriminate against the Serbian population.
“We call on Pristina and the United States and the European Union backing it to stop provocation and observe the Serbs’ rights in Kosovo,” she said, according to Tass, the official news agency of Russia.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has cited Kosovo to justify his recognition of two separatist provinces in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine. “Very many states of the West recognized” Kosovo “as an independent state,” Putin told U.N. chief António Guterres when the two met in April. “We did the same in respect of the republics of Donbas.”
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NattyBohChamps04
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »



Beautiful women (and young!), cheap gas, cheap electricity and water, Traditional values, Christianity, no cancel culture?

Russia sounds like paradise for good chunk of the right. Time to move to Russia!

Yes, the video is real. Russian embassy source: https://twitter.com/EmbajadaRusaES/stat ... 8926479360
PizzaSnake
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by PizzaSnake »

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:49 am

Beautiful women (and young!), cheap gas, cheap electricity and water, Traditional values, Christianity, no cancel culture?

Russia sounds like paradise for good chunk of the right. Time to move to Russia!

Yes, the video is real. Russian embassy source: https://twitter.com/EmbajadaRusaES/stat ... 8926479360
Beautiful women? Looked like children. Maybe Gaetz’ll go.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2022 ... an-fascism

What matters most in Moscow these days is what is missing. Nobody speaks openly of the war in Ukraine. The word is banned and talk is dangerous. The only trace of the fighting going on 1,000km to the south is advertising hoardings covered with portraits of heroic soldiers. And yet Russia is in the midst of a war.

In the same way, Moscow has no torch processions. Displays of the half-swastika “z” sign, representing support for the war, are rare. Stormtroopers do not stage pogroms. Vladimir Putin, Russia’s ageing dictator, does not rally crowds of ecstatic youth or call for mass mobilisation. And yet Russia is in the grip of fascism.

Just as Moscow conceals its war behind a “special military operation”, so it conceals its fascism behind a campaign to eradicate “Nazis” in Ukraine. Nevertheless Timothy Snyder, a professor at Yale University, detects the tell-tale symptoms: “People disagree, often vehemently, over what constitutes fascism,” he wrote recently in the New York Times, “but today’s Russia meets most of the criteria.”

The Kremlin has built a cult of personality around Mr Putin and a cult of the dead around the Great Patriotic War of 1941-45. Mr Putin’s regime yearns to restore a lost golden age and for Russia to be purged by healing violence. You could add to Mr Snyder’s list a hatred of homosexuality, a fixation with the traditional family and a fanatical faith in the power of the state. None of these come naturally in a secular country with a strong anarchist streak and permissive views on sex.

Understanding where Russia is going under Mr Putin means understanding where it has come from. For much of his rule, the West saw Russia as a mafia state presiding over an atomised society. That was not wrong, but it was incomplete. A decade ago Mr Putin’s popularity began to wane. He responded by drawing on the fascist thinking that had re-emerged after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

This may have begun as a political calculation, but Mr Putin got caught up in a cycle of grievance and resentment that has left reason far behind. It has culminated in a ruinous war that many thought would never happen precisely because it defied the weighing of risks and rewards.

Under Mr Putin’s form of fascism, Russia is set on a course that knows no turning back. Without the rhetoric of victimhood and the use of violence, Mr Putin has nothing to offer his people. For Western democracies this onward march means that, while he is in power, dealings with Russia will be riven by hostility and contempt. Some in the West want a return to business as usual once the war is over, but there can be no true peace with a fascist Russia.

For Ukraine, this means a long war. Mr Putin’s aim is not only to take territory, but to crush the democratic ideal that is flourishing among Russia’s neighbours and their sense of separate national identity. He cannot afford to lose. Even if there is a ceasefire, he is intent on making Ukraine fail, with a fresh use of force if necessary. It means that he will use violence and totalitarianism to impose his will at home. He is not only out to crush a free Ukraine, but is also waging war against the best dreams of his own people. So far he is winning.

War is peace
What is Russian fascism? The f word is often tossed around casually. It has no settled definition, but it feeds on exceptionalism and ressentiment, a mixture of jealousy and frustration born out of humiliation. In Russia’s case, the source of this humiliation is not defeat by foreign powers, but abuse suffered by the people at the hands of their own rulers. Deprived of agency and fearful of the authorities, they seek compensation in an imaginary revenge against enemies appointed by the state.

Fascism involves performances—think of all those rallies and uniforms—laced with the thrill of real violence. In all its varieties, Mr Snyder says, it is characterised by the triumph of the will over reason. His essay was entitled “We should say it. Russia is fascist”. In fact the first to talk about it were Russians themselves. One of them was Yegor Gaidar, the first post-Soviet prime minister. In 2007 he saw a spectre rising from Russia’s post-imperial nostalgia. “Russia is going through a dangerous phase,” he wrote. “We should not succumb to the magic of numbers but the fact that there was a 15-year gap between the collapse of the German Empire and Hitler’s rise to power and 15 years between the collapse of the ussr and Russia in 2006-07 makes one think…”

By 2014 Boris Nemtsov, another liberal politician, was clear: “Aggression and cruelty are stoked by the television while the key definitions are supplied by the slightly possessed Kremlin master…The Kremlin is cultivating and rewarding the lowest instincts in people, provoking hatred and fighting. This hell cannot end peacefully.”

A year later Nemtsov, by then labelled a “national traitor”, was murdered beside the Kremlin. In his final interview, a few hours before his death, he warned that “Russia is rapidly turning into a fascist state. We already have propaganda modelled after Nazi Germany. We also have a nucleus of assault brigades…That’s just the beginning.”

Nobody has signalled the growing influence of fascism more loudly than Mr Putin and his acolytes. Far from Moscow’s prosperous streets, the Kremlin has marked tanks, people and television channels with the letter z. The half-swastika has been painted on the doors of Russian film and theatre critics, promoters of “decadent and degenerate” Western art. Hospital patients and groups of children, some kneeling, have been arranged to form half-swastikas for posting online.

In the 1930s Walter Benjamin, an exiled German cultural critic, analysed fascism as a performance. “The logical result of fascism is the introduction of aesthetics into political life,” he wrote. These aesthetics were designed to supplant reason and their ultimate expression was war.

Today the two faces of the war on television, Vladimir Solovyov and Olga Skabeeva, are caricatures of Nazi propagandists. Mr Solovyov is often dressed in a black double-breasted Bavarian-style jacket. Ms Skabeeva, severe and chiselled, has a hint of the dominatrix. They project hatred and aggression. They and their guests decry the West for having declared war on Russia and plead theatrically with Mr Putin to reduce it to ashes by unleashing the full might of Russia’s nuclear arsenal.

This fantasy Armageddon is matched by real violence, the basis of the relationship between the Russian state and its people. A Levada poll commissioned by Committee Against Torture (now itself blacklisted) showed that 10% of the Russian population has experienced torture by law-enforcement agencies at some point. There is a culture of cruelty. Domestic abuse is no longer a crime in Russia. In the first week of the war young women protesters were humiliated and sexually abused in police cells. Nearly 30% of Russians say torture should be allowed.

Atrocities committed by the Russian army in Bucha and other occupied cities are not just excesses of war or a breakdown in discipline, but a feature of army life that is spread more widely by veterans. The 64th Motor Rifle Brigade, which allegedly carried out the atrocities, was honoured by Mr Putin with the title of “Guards” for defending the “motherland and state interests” and praised for its “mass heroism and valour, tenacity and courage”. The brigade, based in the far east, is notorious in Russia for its bullying and abuse.

Like much else coming from the Kremlin, fascism is a top-down project, a move by the ruling elite rather than a grassroots movement. It requires passive acceptance rather than mobilisation of the masses. Its aim is to disengage people and prevent any form of self-organisation. The Kremlin and television bosses can turn it up and down. In the early years of his presidency Mr Putin used money to keep the people out of politics. After the economy stalled in 2011-12 and the urban middle class came out on the streets to demand more rights, he stoked nationalism and hatred. During the political calm after the annexation of Crimea in 2014 fascism was turned down as suddenly as it had come up.

Its resurgence in 2021-22 followed the decline in Mr Putin’s legitimacy, protests against the poisoning and arrest of Alexei Navalny, an opposition leader, and the growing alienation of younger Russians who are less susceptible to television propaganda and more open to the West. To them Mr Putin was an ageing, vengeful and corrupt grandpa who had a secret palace exposed by Mr Navalny’s much-watched YouTube film in 2021. Mr Putin needed to turn the volume back up again and Ukraine offered him the means.

Freedom is slavery
Russian fascism has deep roots, going all the way back to the early 20th century. Fascist ideas flourished among White émigrés after the Bolshevik revolution and they were partly re-imported to the Soviet Union by Stalin after the war. He feared that a victory over fascism, won with America and Britain, would empower and liberate his own people. So he turned Soviet success into the triumph of totalitarianism and Russian imperial nationalism. He re-branded war allies as enemies and fascists hellbent on destroying the Soviet Union and depriving it of its glory.

In the decades that followed, fascism was constrained by official communist ideology and by Russians’ personal experience of fighting the Nazis alongside the Western allies. After the Soviet collapse, however, both of these constraints disappeared and the dark matter was released. In addition, the liberal elite of the 1990s completely rejected the old Soviet values, sweeping away a strong tradition of anti-fascist literature and arts.

All the while fascism had festered undercover, within the kgb. In the late 1990s Alexander Yakovlev, the architect of democratic reforms under Mikhail Gorbachev, talked openly about the security services as a cradle of fascism. “The danger of fascism in Russia is real because since 1917 we have become used to living in a criminal world with a criminal state in charge. Banditry, sanctified by ideology—this wording suits both communists and fascists.”

Such ambiguity was on full display in “Seventeen Moments of Spring”, a hugely popular 12-part television series made on the kgb’s orders in the 1970s. On the face of it, the series was nothing more than an attempt to rebrand the Stalinist secret police. Yuri Andropov, then kgb chief and later Soviet leader, wanted to glamorise Soviet spies and attract a new generation of young men into the service. As it turned out, the programmes helped introduce a Nazi aesthetic into Russia’s popular culture—an aesthetic that would eventually be exploited by Mr Putin.

The hero is a fictional Soviet spy who infiltrates the Nazi high command under the name Max Otto von Stierlitz. He is a high-ranking Standartenführer in the ss, whose mission is to foil a secret plan forged between the cia and Germany near the end of the war. Played by the best-loved Soviet actors, the Nazis in the film are humane and attractive. Vyacheslav Tikhonov, who played the role of Stierlitz, was a model of male perfection. Tall and handsome, with perfect cheekbones, he shone in a sleek Nazi uniform that had been tailored in the Soviet defence ministry.

Ordinary Russians were mesmerised. Dmitry Prigov, a Russian artist and poet, wrote: “Our wonderful Stierlitz is the perfect fascist man and the perfect Soviet man at the same time, making transgressive transitions from one to the other with subduing and untraceable ease...He is the harbinger of a new age—a time of mobility and manipulativeness.”

Mr Putin was the beneficiary. In 1999, just before he was named as Russia’s president, voters told pollsters that Stierlitz would be one of their ideal choices for the office, behind Georgy Zhukov, the Red Army’s commander in the second world war. Mr Putin, a former kgb man who had been stationed in East Germany, had cultivated the image of a latter-day Stierlitz.

When vtsiom, one of the pollsters, repeated the exercise in 2019, Stierlitz came in first place. “An inversion has occurred,” the pollsters said. “In 1999 Putin seemed the preferred candidate because he looked like Stierlitz; in 2019 the image of Stierlitz remains relevant because it is being implemented by the country’s most popular politician.” On June 24th this year a statue to Stierlitz was unveiled in front of the Foreign Intelligence Service (svr) headquarters that was part of the Soviet kgb.

For Mr Putin, the fascist aesthetic is matched by a distinctively Russian fascist philosophy. He and most of his former kgb peers embraced capitalism and rallied against liberals and socialists. They also projected the humiliation they had suffered in the first post-Soviet decade onto the whole country, portraying the end of the cold war as a betrayal and defeat.

Their prophet is Ivan Ilyin, a thinker of the early 20th century who was sent into exile by the Bolsheviks in the 1920s and embraced fascism in Italy and Germany. Ilyin saw fascism as a “necessary and inevitable phenomenon…based on a healthy sense of national patriotism”. He provided justification for their self-appointed role as the state’s guardians. As such, they were entitled to control its resources.

After the second world war, Ilyin rejected what he saw as Hitler’s errors, such as atheism, and his crimes, including the extermination of the Jews. But he retained his faith in the fascist idea of national resurgence. In 1948 he wrote that “fascism is a complex, multifaceted phenomenon and, historically speaking, far from being outlived.” Accordingly, Mr Putin embraced religion, rejected anti-Semitism and eschewed collective leadership for his own direct rule, confirmed by plebiscites.

Ilyin’s book, “Our Tasks”, was recommended by the Kremlin as essential reading to state officials in 2013. It ends with a short essay to a future Russian leader. Western-style democracy and elections would bring ruin to Russia, Ilyin wrote. Only “united and strong state power, dictatorial in scope and state-national in essence” could save it from chaos.

The Ilyin work Mr Putin is said to have read and reread is “What Dismemberment of Russia Would Mean for the World”, written in 1950. In it the author argues that Western powers will try “to carry out their hostile and ridiculous experiment even in the post-Bolshevik chaos, deceptively presenting it as the supreme triumph of ‘freedom’, ‘democracy’ and ‘federalism’…German propaganda has invested too much money and effort in Ukrainian separatism (and maybe not only Ukrainian)”.

In 2005, following the first popular uprising in Ukraine, known as the Orange revolution, Mr Putin called the collapse of the Soviet Union the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century. Drawing on anti-Ukrainian feelings in Russia, he then set his country on a path of confrontation with the West. That same year Ilyin’s body was brought back to Russia from Switzerland, where he had died in exile in 1954. Mr Putin reportedly paid for the gravestone from his own savings. In 2009 he laid flowers on Ilyin’s grave.

Ignorance is strength
The fact that Mr Putin has embraced fascist methods and fascist thinking holds an alarming message for the rest of the world. Fascism works by creating enemies. It makes Russia the brave victim of others’ hatred even as it justifies feelings of hatred towards its real and imagined foes at home and abroad.

Dmitry Medvedev, a former president and “moderniser”, recently posted on social media: “I hate them. They are bastards and degenerates. They want us, Russia, dead…I’ll do all I can to make them disappear.” He did not bother to say who he had in mind. But Russia’s hostility has three targets: the liberal West, Ukraine and traitors at home. All of them need to take stock of what Russian fascism means.

Mr Putin has long sought to undermine Western democracies. He has supported far-right parties in Europe, such as National Rally in France, Fidesz in Hungary and the Northern League in Italy. He has interfered in American elections, hoping to help Donald Trump defeat the Democrats.

Even if fighting stops in Ukraine, the devotee of Ilyin in the Kremlin will not settle into an accommodation with Western democracies. Mr Putin and his men will do everything in their power to battle liberalism and sow discord.

For centuries Russia has been partly European, but Kirill Rogov, a political analyst, wrote recently that the war in Ukraine enabled Mr Putin to cut off that part of its identity. As long as Mr Putin is in power, Russia will build alliances with China, Iran and other anti-liberal countries. It will, as ever, be in the ideological vanguard.

The outlook for Ukraine is even more bleak. A few weeks after the start of the war Ria Novosti, a state news agency, published an article that called for the purging “of the ethnic component of self-identification among the people populating the territories of historical Malorossia and Novorossia [Ukraine and Belarus] initiated by the Soviet powers.”

Ukraine, Mr Putin said, was the source of deadly viruses, home to American-funded biological labs experimenting with strains of coronavirus and cholera. “Biological weapons were being created in direct proximity to Russia,” he warned.

On Russian state television, Ukrainians are called worms. In a recent talk show Mr Solovyov joked: “When a doctor is deworming a cat, for the doctor it is a special operation, for the worms it is a war and for the cat it is cleansing.” Margarita Simonyan, the boss of rt, a state-controlled international tv network, stated that “Ukraine cannot continue to exist.”

The purpose of the invasion is not just to capture territory but to cleanse Ukraine of its separate identity, which threatens the identity of Russia as an imperial nation. Along with its punitive forces, the Kremlin has also dispatched hundreds of schoolteachers to re-educate Ukrainian children in the occupied territories. It equates an independent sovereign Ukraine with Nazism. Either Ukraine will cease to exist as a nation state or Russia itself will be infected by the idea of emancipation that will destroy its imperial identity.

The bleakest of all is the outlook for Russia. Mr Putin did not plan on a war of attrition. He imagined that a strike on Kyiv would rapidly lead to a new regime in Ukraine and the submission of Ukrainian society to his will. So far, Mr Putin has failed to defeat Ukraine. But he has succeeded in defeating Russia.

Talk of bodily contamination and cleansing is not limited to Ukraine. Russia also contains alien elements—oyster-slurping, foie-gras-eating traitors who mentally live in the West and are infected with ideas of gender fluidity. The Russian people, Mr Putin declared in a tv address, will “simply spit them out like an insect in their mouth” leading to “a natural and necessary self-detoxification of society”.

Like Stalin, Mr Putin distrusts and fears the people. They need to be controlled, manipulated and, when necessary, suppressed. He excludes them from real decision-making. As Greg Yudin, a Russian sociologist, argues, they are needed for the ritual of elections that demonstrate the legitimacy of the ruler, but the rest of the time they should be invisible. Mr Yudin calls this attitude “people on call”.

The war changed everything. As Hitler told Goebbels in the spring of 1943, “the war…made possible for us the solution of a whole series of problems that could never have been solved in normal times”. Soon Mr Putin was able to impose de-facto military rule and censorship. He blocked Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and any remaining independent media, isolated the country from poisonous Western influence and chased anyone who objected to the war out of the country. Any public statement that challenges the Kremlin’s version of events in Ukraine is punishable by a 15-year prison sentence.

Gregory Asmolov, of King’s College London, argues this new political reality was unimaginable only months ago and is the Kremlin’s most significant achievement in the conflict. The war has enabled Mr Putin to transform Russia into what Mr Asmolov calls a “disconnective society”. He wrote that “These efforts are driven by the notion that it’s impossible to protect the internal legitimacy of the current leadership and keep citizens loyal if Russia remains relatively open and linked up to the global networked system.”

So far Mr Putin’s aim has been to paralyse Russian society rather than rally the crowds. The show of unity and mobilisation is achieved by television operating in the information space cleared of alternative voices. Among television viewers—mostly people over 60—more than 80% support the war. Among 18- to 24-year-olds, who get their news from the internet, it is less than half. This is perhaps why the symbolic representatives of the z-operation are not working men and women, but a babushka with a red-flag and an eight-year-old “grandson”(painted on murals and imprinted on chocolate wrappers, respectively). They are the ideal television viewers and reality-show extras.

The combination of fear and propaganda produces what Mr Rogov calls an “imposed consensus”. The state publicises opinion polls showing that the majority of Russians support the “special military operation”. The main reason people support Mr Putin is that they think everybody else does, too. The need to belong is powerful. Even when people have access to information, they “simply ignore it or rationalise it, just to avoid destroying the concept of self, country and power…created by propaganda,” notes Elena Koneva, a sociologist.

The engine of fascism does not have a reverse gear. Mr Putin cannot turn back to a reality-based brand of authoritarianism. Expansion is in its nature. It will seek to expand both geographically and into people’s private lives. As the war drags on and casualties mount, the question is whether Mr Putin can mobilise the passive majority or whether they start to grow restive. The elites in the Kremlin, the army and the security services will watch closely.

Two plus two make four
Victor Klemperer, a German Jew who fought in the first world war and survived the second, wrote that “Nazism permeated the flesh and blood of the people through single words, idioms and sentence structures which were imposed on them in a million repetitions.” His book, “The Language of the Third Reich”, describes how the dissociating prefix ent- (de-) gained prominence in Germany during the war.

As Russian tanks stormed Ukraine in the small hours of February 24th, Mr Putin began his war against Ukraine with that same dissociating prefix. The goal, he said, was denatsifikatsia (de-Nazification) and demilitarizatsia (de-militarisation). Ria Novosti, the state news agency, later added that “De-Nazification inevitably will be also de-Ukrainisation.”

“Germany was almost destroyed by Nazism,” Klemperer wrote, “The task of curing it of this fatal disease is today termed ‘de-Nazification’. I hope, and indeed believe, that this dreadful word…will fade away and lead no more than a historical existence as soon as it has performed its current duty…But that won’t be for some time yet, because it is not only Nazi actions that have to vanish, but also…the typical Nazi way of thinking and its breeding-ground: the language of Nazism.”
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Depressing, scary stuff.
Unfortunately, all too accurate.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:47 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:39 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:29 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:24 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:53 pm Here ya go Comrade Doc --
old salt wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:02 am I support the EUropeans who are willing to help defend themselves against Russia, like the ones I served with. Finland & Sweden have done a good job of that. They are already a valuable neutral armed buffer, using our weapons or compatible ones of their own design. They already operate effectively alongside us, without NATO membership. Thanks to their own resolve & resources, they have not needed NATO to protect them & have not been obligated to defend their free-riding neighbors. They've successfully defended themselves since WW II. If Germany & the other former Warsaw Pact NATO members (except Poland recently) invested in their own defense & diplomacy as effectively as Finland & Sweden have, NATO would still be as strong & effective as the NATO which won the Cold War.
Thing is … there are two parties that disagree with your assessment, namely Finland & Sweden. Both have assessed the current security environment and have concluded that they need NATO membership to maintain their national security. The governments of the United States and current NATO members agree.

Pardon me if I accept their assessment over yours.

DocBarrister
Read it again doc. It's complimentary of Sweden & Finland. It points out that they are more capable than many current NATO members.
Read my subsequent posts, further down the page, saying more good things about them joining NATO.
Yet in the end, you still oppose their joining NATO. That’s how you really feel, correct? That’s why you posted Hawley’s article opposing NATO membership for Finland and Sweden, correct?

DocBarrister
Show us my words opposing their membership.
I said that Hawley said things that need to be heard & considered, not that I oppose their membership.
Straight question, should be an easy answer:

Do you support Sweden and Finland joining NATO, given their explicit desire to do so?
Yes or no?

Explanations are welcome. ;)
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:57 am
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:47 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:39 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:29 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:24 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:53 pm Here ya go Comrade Doc --
old salt wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:02 am I support the EUropeans who are willing to help defend themselves against Russia, like the ones I served with. Finland & Sweden have done a good job of that. They are already a valuable neutral armed buffer, using our weapons or compatible ones of their own design. They already operate effectively alongside us, without NATO membership. Thanks to their own resolve & resources, they have not needed NATO to protect them & have not been obligated to defend their free-riding neighbors. They've successfully defended themselves since WW II. If Germany & the other former Warsaw Pact NATO members (except Poland recently) invested in their own defense & diplomacy as effectively as Finland & Sweden have, NATO would still be as strong & effective as the NATO which won the Cold War.
Thing is … there are two parties that disagree with your assessment, namely Finland & Sweden. Both have assessed the current security environment and have concluded that they need NATO membership to maintain their national security. The governments of the United States and current NATO members agree.

Pardon me if I accept their assessment over yours.

DocBarrister
Read it again doc. It's complimentary of Sweden & Finland. It points out that they are more capable than many current NATO members.
Read my subsequent posts, further down the page, saying more good things about them joining NATO.
Yet in the end, you still oppose their joining NATO. That’s how you really feel, correct? That’s why you posted Hawley’s article opposing NATO membership for Finland and Sweden, correct?

DocBarrister
Show us my words opposing their membership.
I said that Hawley said things that need to be heard & considered, not that I oppose their membership.
Straight question, should be an easy answer:

Do you support Sweden and Finland joining NATO, given their explicit desire to do so?
Yes or no?

Explanations are welcome. ;)
I absolutely support their membership, without reservation or qualification.
They are more capable militarily than many of our other EU allies.
Sweden has a very capable arms industry & Saab makes excellent fighter planes which Hungary & Czechia currently lease.
They'd be good aircraft for UkraIne's air force.
They increase the length of border NATO must defend, but more importantly, they stretch Russia's border defense challenge.
Even though they do not yet meet the 2% GDP target, they bring a lot of bang for the buck & their 2% will be money effectively spent.
They enhance NATO's naval capability & greatly increase the shoreline & airbases to control the Baltic Sea.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine doomed the concept of Finlandization which yielded a very effective buffer since WW-II.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

old salt wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:56 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:57 am
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:47 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:39 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:29 pm
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:24 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:53 pm Here ya go Comrade Doc --
old salt wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:02 am I support the EUropeans who are willing to help defend themselves against Russia, like the ones I served with. Finland & Sweden have done a good job of that. They are already a valuable neutral armed buffer, using our weapons or compatible ones of their own design. They already operate effectively alongside us, without NATO membership. Thanks to their own resolve & resources, they have not needed NATO to protect them & have not been obligated to defend their free-riding neighbors. They've successfully defended themselves since WW II. If Germany & the other former Warsaw Pact NATO members (except Poland recently) invested in their own defense & diplomacy as effectively as Finland & Sweden have, NATO would still be as strong & effective as the NATO which won the Cold War.
Thing is … there are two parties that disagree with your assessment, namely Finland & Sweden. Both have assessed the current security environment and have concluded that they need NATO membership to maintain their national security. The governments of the United States and current NATO members agree.

Pardon me if I accept their assessment over yours.



DocBarrister
Read it again doc. It's complimentary of Sweden & Finland. It points out that they are more capable than many current NATO members.
Read my subsequent posts, further down the page, saying more good things about them joining NATO.
Yet in the end, you still oppose their joining NATO. That’s how you really feel, correct? That’s why you posted Hawley’s article opposing NATO membership for Finland and Sweden, correct?

DocBarrister
Show us my words opposing their membership.
I said that Hawley said things that need to be heard & considered, not that I oppose their membership.
Straight question, should be an easy answer:

Do you support Sweden and Finland joining NATO, given their explicit desire to do so?
Yes or no?

Explanations are welcome. ;)
I absolutely support their membership, without reservation or qualification.
They are more capable militarily than many of our other EU allies.
Sweden has a very capable arms industry & Saab makes excellent fighter planes which Hungary & Czechia currently lease.
They'd be good aircraft for UkraIne's air force.
They increase the length of border NATO must defend, but more importantly, they stretch Russia's border defense challenge.
Even though they do not yet meet the 2% GDP target, they bring a lot of bang for the buck & their 2% will be money effectively spent.
They enhance NATO's naval capability & greatly increase the shoreline & airbases to control the Baltic Sea.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine doomed the concept of Finlandization which yielded a very effective buffer since WW-II.
Thanks, and noted.
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by jhu72 »

Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

It's unfortunate that NYT non-subscribers have to resort to outlets like RT to read what Thomas Friedman is saying behind the NYT paywall.

https://www.rt.com/news/560071-ukraine- ... us-pelosi/

‘Deep mistrust’ between US and Zelensky – NYT

US officials are more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they acknowledge publicly, the paper’s star columnist says

There is a “deep mistrust” between the administration of US President Joe Biden and Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky, a New York Times columnist claimed in an article published on Monday.

The US has so far been the strongest backer of Ukraine in its conflict with Russia, providing billions of dollars in military aid along with intelligence, but according to the paper’s foreign affairs columnist Thomas L. Friedman, relations between Washington and Kiev are not as they seem.

“Privately, US officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they are letting on,” Friedman, a three-time Pulitzer Prize winner, wrote. “There is deep mistrust between the White House and Ukraine President Vladimir Zelensky — considerably more than has been reported.”

The NYT writer described Zelensky’s decision to fire Prosecutor General Irina Venediktova and the head of the State Security Service (SBU), Ivan Bakanov, in mid-July as “funny business going on in Kiev.”

Friedman noted that he hasn’t yet seen any reporting in the US media that “convincingly explains” the reasons behind the largest shakeup in the Kiev government since the launch of the Russian military operation on February 24.

“It is as if we don’t want to look too closely under the hood in Kiev for fear of what corruption or antics we might see, when we have invested so much there,” he wrote.

The piece was published ahead of the then-unconfirmed visit of the US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to the self-governed Chinese island of Taiwan, which Friedman criticized as a move that would be “utterly reckless, dangerous and irresponsible.”

Its negative consequences could include “a Chinese military response that could result in the US being plunged into indirect conflicts with a nuclear-armed Russia and a nuclear-armed China at the same time,” he warned.

On Tuesday afternoon, despite warnings from Beijing, Pelosi’s plane landed in Taiwan, which China considers to be part of its territory. In response, China vowed to take “measures to resolutely safeguard its sovereignty and territorial integrity”. Pelosi has become the most high-ranking US official to visit the island since 1997.

China reacts to Pelosi landing in Taiwan
The columnist urged Washington to “keep your eyes on the prize” instead of provoking Beijing. “Today that prize is crystal clear: We must ensure that Ukraine is able, at a minimum, to blunt — and, at a maximum, reverse — Vladimir Putin’s unprovoked invasion, which if it succeeds will pose a direct threat to the stability of the whole European Union,” he insisted.

Russia sent troops into Ukraine five months ago, citing Kiev’s failure to implement the Minsk agreements, designed to give the regions of Donetsk and Lugansk special status within the Ukrainian state. The protocols, brokered by Germany and France, were first signed in 2014. Former Ukrainian President Pyotr Poroshenko has since admitted that Kiev’s main goal was to use the ceasefire to buy time and “create powerful armed forces.”

In February 2022, the Kremlin recognized the Donbass republics as independent states and demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join any Western military bloc. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked.
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old salt
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

DW & France 24 reports :

16 grain ships are loaded in Odesa, ready to depart.

The intl inspection team in Turkey says they can inspect 3 ships/day

This could take a while.
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Kismet
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Kismet »

Senate votes 95-1 to accept Finland and Sweden into NATO. The one no vote was dickwad Josh Hawley.
Semi-dickwad Rand Paul voted present.

For some strange reason Hawley did vote yes to accept North Macedonia into NATO but couldn't bring himself to do the same in this instance. :oops:
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