All Things Russia & Ukraine

[cradleandshoot]

As we have been predicting, Ukraine is determined to take back all of its territories.

That’s the minimum “settlement “ of this war.

How do you envision Ukraine developing the capability to do that ? How long will it take ? Who will finance it ?

It will take much more than "friction" & 16 HIMARS batteries.

Ukraine is building up its offensive capabilities, yes with enormously important US-led support.

I think they make these occupied areas a living hell for the Russian military, destroy their capacities, break their will.

Could take quite awhile.

We are holding back on giving the weapons even minimally necessary to mount an effective counter-offensive to take back any significant amount of territory, out of fear of escalation or retaliatory counter attack on US or other NATO forces. We are giving enough to prevent further Russian advances, but not enough to repel their invasion.

We are giving Ukraine enough aid to survive but not enough to prevail. That would take years & be a huge commitment, which is not a realistic expectation. We are prolonging the war.

If the Ukrainians can take back Kherson city & drive Russian forces back south of the Dneiper River, there would be a defensible border for both sides for a stalemate or a cease fire/frozen conflict, if negotiated, at that point.

If the Russian held territory becomes a "living hell" for the Russian occupiers, what do you think it will be for the civilians trapped there ?

Not good, but Ukraine isn’t purposely bombing civilians. Benefit of precision weapons and targeting. If they can take back Kherson, they can take back all of it.

We should provide the weapons necessary.

There is no precision bombing that will ever eliminate the need for boots on the ground to finish the job. If precision bombing was the end all to save all we would not have spent all of WW2 sending dog faced grunts in to secure the objective. Why invade Normandy, we could have just bombed them into submission? No matter HOW much ordnance is used... infantry with rifles has to go in and seal the deal. You remember a place called Iwu Jima??? Our folks bombed the living chit out of that Island.. How did that work out???

I didn't say that precision weaponry is all that is necessary, but it sure beats the heck out of carpet bombing for military effectiveness and avoidance of civilian casualties.

On your examples, first, we didn't have precision weaponry in WWII, and second, the Russian military is not remotely of the caliber and morale of either the German or Japanese forces on a comparative basis.

My hunch, which appears to be shared by quite a few military folks, is that the Russian military may well 'run out of gas' and be put to heel.

You never heard of those 8th air Force boys flying missions over Germany that could drop their bombs in a "pickle barrel " at 30 thousand feet? You ever heard of the Norden Bombsight??? It was built right here in Rochester NY at the Bausch and Lomb plant on St Paul St. I drove past the old foundation of the original manufacturing plant almost every damn day for years. The Coca Cola plant is located at 123 Upper Falls Blvd a 30 second walk from the corner of the old building where the Norden Bombsight was built. The history of precision day light bombing is something you may want to brush up on. The Norden Bombsight was such a threat to Nazi Germany that at one point Hitler actually tried to devise an aerial attack to bomb the facility. If you don't believe me.. look it up.

[old salt]

There is no precision bombing that will ever eliminate the need for boots on the ground to finish the job. infantry with rifles has to go in and seal the deal.

That's the key. Ukraine's infantry units are largely conscript, inexperienced, with limited training.
They haven't gone door to door clearing occupied territory or employed mechanized & armored units in maneuver warfare.
They are not experienced in offensive land warfare. They've suffered grievous losses which have gone unreported.
How are they going to get their forces across the Dneiper now that the bridges have been taken out ?
Betting on the collapse of the Russian army, or their will to fight, is a long shot that could take years & still never happen.

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-appears-t ... a-62870896
Ukraine is creating the conditions for a counterattack, said Nico Lange, a security expert and adviser to Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer in the previous German government, under Chancellor Angela Merkel, of the conservative Christian Democrats (CDU). Lange also headed the Kyiv office of the CDU-affiliated Konrad Adenauer Foundation for six years.

But Ukraine does not have "enough armored vehicles and not enough battle tanks to really retake territory decisively in this vast terrain of the southern Ukrainian steppe with a major counterattack," Lange said.

Lange is particularly critical of Germany's reluctance to provide heavy weapons to Ukraine. "Time has been lost and, of course, you need a lead time for logistics and for training for the delivery of armored vehicles, for example," Lange said. "Now that Ukraine would have opportunities, just not enough of this assistance has arrived. That's very unfortunate."

"In Germany, it was often said in recent months that the Ukrainians could not quickly learn to handle Western weapon systems," Lange said. "But, with the American HIMARS, they have proven that they can learn very quickly. Now they would need more armored troop vehicles."

Hodges said Ukraine's army could be playing for time. "They are resisting the urge to push," he said. "They're building up a force until it's ready, until it's trained, until they have enough power."

For a counteroffensive to be successful, Hodges said, Ukraine would need more support from its international allies.

"I am disappointed that Germany has not provided more," Hodges said. "To be a leader, respected by everybody for its moral authority, as well as its economic power, Germany has to be seen as helping Ukraine defeat Russia," he added.

"If Ukraine does not defeat Russia, or it drags on forever, or if Ukraine defeats Russia without real German help, then nobody will respect Germany," Hodges said. "Russia will not respect Germany. Other European countries will not respect Germany. "

No nuclear threat
Hodges is in alignment with other military officials, politicians and analysts who are calling on the US administration and its allies to deliver smarter weapons systems, such as the short-range ATACMS (Army Tactical Missile System) missile with a range of 300 kilometers (180 miles). This missile can also be launched by the US HIMARS artillery pieces, with which Ukraine achieved many of its recent successes against Russian forces.

White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan has been reluctant to supply such weapons systems for fear of escalation.

But, Hodges said, Russia's only option for escalation is to use a nuclear weapon, and he considers that extremely unlikely. He said there were no Ukrainian targets for Russian nuclear missiles that "would change the battlefield favorably for them." And the use of even a tactical nuclear missile of lesser destructive power in Ukraine would immediately result in the US and UK entering the war, Hodges said. "I don't believe that Putin is crazy," he said. "He's evil, but he's not crazy or suicidal."

Hodges said the war would likely be decided through conventional combat.

And he is cautiously optimistic. If Ukraine's allies follow through with their support, Hodges said, the Russian forces can be pushed back by the end of 2022 to where they were before the invasion on February 24. Then, he said, there may be a year or two of negotiations for Crimea and Donbas.

But this hinges on deliveries of modern equipment and the training of soldiers, which Russian officials hope Ukraine's allies will not follow through on.

"The Kremlin is counting on the US losing interest because of inflation and its own domestic challenges and midterm elections," Hodges said. "The UK is still looking for a prime minister," he added. "Germany is so concerned about the impact of the reduction of gas and the Rhine River being so shallow right now, all these kinds of things. The Russians are thinking that they can wait us out. That's the key. If they're right, then this war goes on for years."

[MDlaxfan76]

As we have been predicting, Ukraine is determined to take back all of its territories.

That’s the minimum “settlement “ of this war.

How do you envision Ukraine developing the capability to do that ? How long will it take ? Who will finance it ?

It will take much more than "friction" & 16 HIMARS batteries.

Ukraine is building up its offensive capabilities, yes with enormously important US-led support.

I think they make these occupied areas a living hell for the Russian military, destroy their capacities, break their will.

Could take quite awhile.

We are holding back on giving the weapons even minimally necessary to mount an effective counter-offensive to take back any significant amount of territory, out of fear of escalation or retaliatory counter attack on US or other NATO forces. We are giving enough to prevent further Russian advances, but not enough to repel their invasion.

We are giving Ukraine enough aid to survive but not enough to prevail. That would take years & be a huge commitment, which is not a realistic expectation. We are prolonging the war.

If the Ukrainians can take back Kherson city & drive Russian forces back south of the Dneiper River, there would be a defensible border for both sides for a stalemate or a cease fire/frozen conflict, if negotiated, at that point.

If the Russian held territory becomes a "living hell" for the Russian occupiers, what do you think it will be for the civilians trapped there ?

Not good, but Ukraine isn’t purposely bombing civilians. Benefit of precision weapons and targeting. If they can take back Kherson, they can take back all of it.

We should provide the weapons necessary.

There is no precision bombing that will ever eliminate the need for boots on the ground to finish the job. If precision bombing was the end all to save all we would not have spent all of WW2 sending dog faced grunts in to secure the objective. Why invade Normandy, we could have just bombed them into submission? No matter HOW much ordnance is used... infantry with rifles has to go in and seal the deal. You remember a place called Iwu Jima??? Our folks bombed the living chit out of that Island.. How did that work out???

I didn't say that precision weaponry is all that is necessary, but it sure beats the heck out of carpet bombing for military effectiveness and avoidance of civilian casualties.

On your examples, first, we didn't have precision weaponry in WWII, and second, the Russian military is not remotely of the caliber and morale of either the German or Japanese forces on a comparative basis.

My hunch, which appears to be shared by quite a few military folks, is that the Russian military may well 'run out of gas' and be put to heel.

You never heard of those 8th air Force boys flying missions over Germany that could drop their bombs in a "pickle barrel " at 30 thousand feet? You ever heard of the Norden Bombsight??? It was built right here in Rochester NY at the Bausch and Lomb plant on St Paul St. I drove past the old foundation of the original manufacturing plant almost every damn day for years. The Coca Cola plant is located at 123 Upper Falls Blvd a 30 second walk from the corner of the old building where the Norden Bombsight was built. The history of precision day light bombing is something you may want to brush up on. The Norden Bombsight was such a threat to Nazi Germany that at one point Hitler actually tried to devise an aerial attack to bomb the facility. If you don't believe me.. look it up.

Yes, I've heard of those efforts, but they were not nearly as precise as what we are capable of some 80 years later in technology development. And there was tremendous loss of our crews and planes in those efforts, whereas the Ukrainians are able to strike from afar, with great precision, with our technology.

Really amazing is what we used with the terrorist leader in Kabul a few weeks ago.

The Russians have far less capabilities and low morale.

[MDlaxfan76]

There is no precision bombing that will ever eliminate the need for boots on the ground to finish the job. infantry with rifles has to go in and seal the deal.

That's the key. Ukraine's infantry units are largely conscript, inexperienced, with limited training.
They haven't gone door to door clearing occupied territory or employed mechanized & armored units in maneuver warfare.
They are not experienced in offensive land warfare. They've suffered grievous losses which have gone unreported.
How are they going to get their forces across the Dneiper now that the bridges have been taken out ?
Betting on the collapse of the Russian army, or their will to fight, is a long shot that could take years & still never happen.

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-appears-t ... a-62870896
Ukraine is creating the conditions for a counterattack, said Nico Lange, a security expert and adviser to Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer in the previous German government, under Chancellor Angela Merkel, of the conservative Christian Democrats (CDU). Lange also headed the Kyiv office of the CDU-affiliated Konrad Adenauer Foundation for six years.

But Ukraine does not have "enough armored vehicles and not enough battle tanks to really retake territory decisively in this vast terrain of the southern Ukrainian steppe with a major counterattack," Lange said.

Lange is particularly critical of Germany's reluctance to provide heavy weapons to Ukraine. "Time has been lost and, of course, you need a lead time for logistics and for training for the delivery of armored vehicles, for example," Lange said. "Now that Ukraine would have opportunities, just not enough of this assistance has arrived. That's very unfortunate."

"In Germany, it was often said in recent months that the Ukrainians could not quickly learn to handle Western weapon systems," Lange said. "But, with the American HIMARS, they have proven that they can learn very quickly. Now they would need more armored troop vehicles."

Hodges said Ukraine's army could be playing for time. "They are resisting the urge to push," he said. "They're building up a force until it's ready, until it's trained, until they have enough power."

For a counteroffensive to be successful, Hodges said, Ukraine would need more support from its international allies.

"I am disappointed that Germany has not provided more," Hodges said. "To be a leader, respected by everybody for its moral authority, as well as its economic power, Germany has to be seen as helping Ukraine defeat Russia," he added.

"If Ukraine does not defeat Russia, or it drags on forever, or if Ukraine defeats Russia without real German help, then nobody will respect Germany," Hodges said. "Russia will not respect Germany. Other European countries will not respect Germany. "

No nuclear threat
Hodges is in alignment with other military officials, politicians and analysts who are calling on the US administration and its allies to deliver smarter weapons systems, such as the short-range ATACMS (Army Tactical Missile System) missile with a range of 300 kilometers (180 miles). This missile can also be launched by the US HIMARS artillery pieces, with which Ukraine achieved many of its recent successes against Russian forces.

White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan has been reluctant to supply such weapons systems for fear of escalation.

But, Hodges said, Russia's only option for escalation is to use a nuclear weapon, and he considers that extremely unlikely. He said there were no Ukrainian targets for Russian nuclear missiles that "would change the battlefield favorably for them." And the use of even a tactical nuclear missile of lesser destructive power in Ukraine would immediately result in the US and UK entering the war, Hodges said. "I don't believe that Putin is crazy," he said. "He's evil, but he's not crazy or suicidal."

Hodges said the war would likely be decided through conventional combat.

And he is cautiously optimistic. If Ukraine's allies follow through with their support, Hodges said, the Russian forces can be pushed back by the end of 2022 to where they were before the invasion on February 24. Then, he said, there may be a year or two of negotiations for Crimea and Donbas.

But this hinges on deliveries of modern equipment and the training of soldiers, which Russian officials hope Ukraine's allies will not follow through on.

"The Kremlin is counting on the US losing interest because of inflation and its own domestic challenges and midterm elections," Hodges said. "The UK is still looking for a prime minister," he added. "Germany is so concerned about the impact of the reduction of gas and the Rhine River being so shallow right now, all these kinds of things. The Russians are thinking that they can wait us out. That's the key. If they're right, then this war goes on for years."

[PizzaSnake]

There is no precision bombing that will ever eliminate the need for boots on the ground to finish the job. infantry with rifles has to go in and seal the deal.

That's the key. Ukraine's infantry units are largely conscript, inexperienced, with limited training.
They haven't gone door to door clearing occupied territory or employed mechanized & armored units in maneuver warfare.
They are not experienced in offensive land warfare. They've suffered grievous losses which have gone unreported.
How are they going to get their forces across the Dneiper now that the bridges have been taken out ?
Betting on the collapse of the Russian army, or their will to fight, is a long shot that could take years & still never happen.

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-appears-t ... a-62870896
Ukraine is creating the conditions for a counterattack, said Nico Lange, a security expert and adviser to Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer in the previous German government, under Chancellor Angela Merkel, of the conservative Christian Democrats (CDU). Lange also headed the Kyiv office of the CDU-affiliated Konrad Adenauer Foundation for six years.

But Ukraine does not have "enough armored vehicles and not enough battle tanks to really retake territory decisively in this vast terrain of the southern Ukrainian steppe with a major counterattack," Lange said.

Lange is particularly critical of Germany's reluctance to provide heavy weapons to Ukraine. "Time has been lost and, of course, you need a lead time for logistics and for training for the delivery of armored vehicles, for example," Lange said. "Now that Ukraine would have opportunities, just not enough of this assistance has arrived. That's very unfortunate."

"In Germany, it was often said in recent months that the Ukrainians could not quickly learn to handle Western weapon systems," Lange said. "But, with the American HIMARS, they have proven that they can learn very quickly. Now they would need more armored troop vehicles."

Hodges said Ukraine's army could be playing for time. "They are resisting the urge to push," he said. "They're building up a force until it's ready, until it's trained, until they have enough power."

For a counteroffensive to be successful, Hodges said, Ukraine would need more support from its international allies.

"I am disappointed that Germany has not provided more," Hodges said. "To be a leader, respected by everybody for its moral authority, as well as its economic power, Germany has to be seen as helping Ukraine defeat Russia," he added.

"If Ukraine does not defeat Russia, or it drags on forever, or if Ukraine defeats Russia without real German help, then nobody will respect Germany," Hodges said. "Russia will not respect Germany. Other European countries will not respect Germany. "

No nuclear threat
Hodges is in alignment with other military officials, politicians and analysts who are calling on the US administration and its allies to deliver smarter weapons systems, such as the short-range ATACMS (Army Tactical Missile System) missile with a range of 300 kilometers (180 miles). This missile can also be launched by the US HIMARS artillery pieces, with which Ukraine achieved many of its recent successes against Russian forces.

White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan has been reluctant to supply such weapons systems for fear of escalation.

But, Hodges said, Russia's only option for escalation is to use a nuclear weapon, and he considers that extremely unlikely. He said there were no Ukrainian targets for Russian nuclear missiles that "would change the battlefield favorably for them." And the use of even a tactical nuclear missile of lesser destructive power in Ukraine would immediately result in the US and UK entering the war, Hodges said. "I don't believe that Putin is crazy," he said. "He's evil, but he's not crazy or suicidal."

Hodges said the war would likely be decided through conventional combat.

And he is cautiously optimistic. If Ukraine's allies follow through with their support, Hodges said, the Russian forces can be pushed back by the end of 2022 to where they were before the invasion on February 24. Then, he said, there may be a year or two of negotiations for Crimea and Donbas.

But this hinges on deliveries of modern equipment and the training of soldiers, which Russian officials hope Ukraine's allies will not follow through on.

"The Kremlin is counting on the US losing interest because of inflation and its own domestic challenges and midterm elections," Hodges said. "The UK is still looking for a prime minister," he added. "Germany is so concerned about the impact of the reduction of gas and the Rhine River being so shallow right now, all these kinds of things. The Russians are thinking that they can wait us out. That's the key. If they're right, then this war goes on for years."

“That's the key. Ukraine's infantry units are largely conscript, inexperienced, with limited training.
They haven't gone door to door clearing occupied territory or employed mechanized & armored units in maneuver warfare.
They are not experienced in offensive land warfare. They've suffered grievous losses which have gone unreported.”

True of the Russians as well. Sort of like watching two unskilled combatants engage in fisticuffs. Only one if these children has really, really dangerous stones to throw.

But in general, resolve is the key. If the Ukrainians (or a portion of them) don’t give up, if will not end. And being so close to “Europe”, and pivotal to world food supplies, it will weigh heavily upon the entire world.

So, will the rest of the world accede to Putin’s aggression? He will have to be confronted sooner or later unless we get lucky with a “natural” solution.

[DocBarrister]

The equipment being sent for the first time includes 40 heavily armored MaxxPro mine-resistant vehicles, originally developed for U.S. forces in Iraq during the height of the fighting there when roadside bombs were taking a heavy toll on U.S. forces. In Ukraine, they will clear roads and fields before ground troops push forward, creating paths through dense minefields laid by the Russians.

Also new are TOW guided anti-tank missile systems, sixteen 105mm howitzers and 36,000 rounds, plus 2,000 rounds for the Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle, a small anti-armor weapon used by U.S. special operations forces. The Carl Gustaf, which can be carried easily and is designed to work in close quarters with an enemy, is an indication that the Ukrainians expect close-in fighting in the coming weeks.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/na ... h-00052856

Both the U.S. and Ukraine are being patient in preparing for a counteroffensive against Russia in Southern Ukraine.

Ukraine has been working to soften Russia’s logistical capabilities by blowing up key bridges, railways, and weapons depots. Ukraine has also attacked Russian-occupied Crimea, destroying fighter jets that could have been used against an attacking Ukrainian army and throwing into chaos a key Russian logistical support center for Russian forces in Southern Ukraine.

Meanwhile, the United States is providing specialized armored vehicles and Carl Gustaf anti-armor rifles, both needed for the counteroffensive and urban warfare.

DocBarrister

[a fan]

We are giving Ukraine enough aid to survive but not enough to prevail. That would take years & be a huge commitment, which is not a realistic expectation. We are prolonging the war.

Disagree.

As I said at the beginning: how does Putin think he's going to HOLD the territories in Ukraine? He can't. They're not going to let him.

We're not prolonging the war. Putin is......or the inverse, Zelensky is. It's clear they're unwilling to let Putin have this land. So it doesn't matter if we arm them or not, a few sniper rifles and IED's will make it impossible to hold that territory, and get back to normal life. So the entire point to Putin's stupidity is gone.

If the Russian held territory becomes a "living hell" for the Russian occupiers, what do you think it will be for the civilians trapped there ?

Fairly obvious to me that the Ukrainians don't care if it's hell......it's their homeland.

Putin is F'ed. Russia's GDP is down 3% on the year, and falling. Which means...and this isn't even adjusted for inflation.....Putin's Russia has a lower GDP than when he took power (again) in 2012.

He's making Russia irrelevant in one generation. But because Putin controls Russian media, the people haven't quite gotten the memo yet. They'll figure it out at some point....or at least, the 1%ers and the other leaders in Russia will.

[Typical Lax Dad]

We are giving Ukraine enough aid to survive but not enough to prevail. That would take years & be a huge commitment, which is not a realistic expectation. We are prolonging the war.

Disagree.

As I said at the beginning: how does Putin think he's going to HOLD the territories in Ukraine? He can't. They're not going to let him.

We're not prolonging the war. Putin is......or the inverse, Zelensky is. It's clear they're unwilling to let Putin have this land. So it doesn't matter if we arm them or not, a few sniper rifles and IED's will make it impossible to hold that territory, and get back to normal life. So the entire point to Putin's stupidity is gone.

If the Russian held territory becomes a "living hell" for the Russian occupiers, what do you think it will be for the civilians trapped there ?

Fairly obvious to me that the Ukrainians don't care if it's hell......it's their homeland.

Putin is F'ed. Russia's GDP is down 3% on the year, and falling. Which means...and this isn't even adjusted for inflation.....Putin's Russia has a lower GDP than when he took power (again) in 2012.

He's making Russia irrelevant in one generation. But because Putin controls Russian media, the people haven't quite gotten the memo yet. They'll figure it out at some point....or at least, the 1%ers and the other leaders in Russia will.

Memo hasn’t reached Fanlax yet

[old salt]

Meanwhile, the United States is providing specialized armored vehicles and Carl Gustaf anti-armor rifles, both needed for the counteroffensive and urban warfare.

The MRAPS are high riding surplus armored trucks that are given to Police & Sheriffs depts in the US, with a front attachment for clearing mines.
The Carl Gustaf is a high tech bazooka -- a defensive weapon. TOW missiles are wire guided & obsolete, they're being provided because we're running out of Javelins. The Ukrainians need modern main battle tanks like M1 Abrams or German Leopards & Armored Fighting Vehicles like Bradleys if they intend to engage front line Russian armor in open battles.

[MDlaxfan76]

Meanwhile, the United States is providing specialized armored vehicles and Carl Gustaf anti-armor rifles, both needed for the counteroffensive and urban warfare.

The MRAPS are high riding surplus armored trucks that are given to Police & Sheriffs depts in the US, with a front attachment for clearing mines.
The Carl Gustaf is a high tech bazooka -- a defensive weapon. TOW missiles are wire guided & obsolete, they're being provided because we're running out of Javelins. The Ukrainians need modern main battle tanks like M1 Abrams or German Leopards & Armored Fighting Vehicles like Bradleys if they intend to engage front line Russian armor in open battles.

And they should get what they need. Hopefully, they are getting training, quietly, right now.

[old salt]

Meanwhile, the United States is providing specialized armored vehicles and Carl Gustaf anti-armor rifles, both needed for the counteroffensive and urban warfare.

The MRAPS are high riding surplus armored trucks that are given to Police & Sheriffs depts in the US, with a front attachment for clearing mines.
The Carl Gustaf is a high tech bazooka -- a defensive weapon. TOW missiles are wire guided & obsolete, they're being provided because we're running out of Javelins. The Ukrainians need modern main battle tanks like M1 Abrams or German Leopards & Armored Fighting Vehicles like Bradleys if they intend to engage front line Russian armor in open battles.

And they should get what they need. Hopefully, they are getting training, quietly, right now.

Here's a good breakdown of what's in the latest tranche. Still defensive or insurgency stuff. Follow the links for more details.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/u ... n-missiles

Most significant is that HARM anti-radar missiles have been adapted to the Mig-29 & have been used effectively. Their cockpits don't have the compatible MFD display used in US/NATO aircraft, but apparently an I-pad tablet like device has been adapted for that task, possibly for use in their 2 seat trainer aircraft which have a limited combat capability but might benefit from the 2nd cockpit member on the complex "wild weasel" mission using the HARM's to target Russian air defense radars. Reading between the lines, Slovakia may still sell Ukraine their Mig-29's when their current Russian maint contract expires. I speculate that Poland is disassembling their Mig-29's into major sub assemblies which can be shipped to Ukraine for reassembly or cannabilized into "Franken-Migs" to keep Ukraine's Mig-29's in the air. Thus, the Poles are supplying spare parts & not transferring whole aircraft.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Meanwhile, the United States is providing specialized armored vehicles and Carl Gustaf anti-armor rifles, both needed for the counteroffensive and urban warfare.

The MRAPS are high riding surplus armored trucks that are given to Police & Sheriffs depts in the US, with a front attachment for clearing mines.
The Carl Gustaf is a high tech bazooka -- a defensive weapon. TOW missiles are wire guided & obsolete, they're being provided because we're running out of Javelins. The Ukrainians need modern main battle tanks like M1 Abrams or German Leopards & Armored Fighting Vehicles like Bradleys if they intend to engage front line Russian armor in open battles.

And they should get what they need. Hopefully, they are getting training, quietly, right now.

Here's a good breakdown of what's in the latest tranche. Still defensive or insurgency stuff. Follow the links for more details.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/u ... n-missiles

Most significant is that HARM anti-radar missiles have been adapted to the Mig-29 & have been used effectively. Their cockpits don't have the compatible MFD display used in US/NATO aircraft, but apparently an I-pad tablet like device has been adapted for that task, possibly for use in their 2 seat trainer aircraft which have a limited combat capability but might benefit from the 2nd cockpit member on the complex "wild weasel" mission using the HARM's to target Russian air defense radars. Reading between the lines, Slovakia may still sell Ukraine their Mig-29's when their current Russian maint contract expires. I speculate that Poland is disassembling their Mig-29's into major sub assemblies which can be shipped to Ukraine for reassembly or cannabilized into "Franken-Migs" to keep Ukraine's Mig-29's in the air. Thus, the Poles are supplying spare parts & not transferring whole aircraft.

Waste of time. Zelensky needs to surrender. He is just dragging this conflict out. We are just making it worse. It’s silly.

[MDlaxfan76]

Meanwhile, the United States is providing specialized armored vehicles and Carl Gustaf anti-armor rifles, both needed for the counteroffensive and urban warfare.

The MRAPS are high riding surplus armored trucks that are given to Police & Sheriffs depts in the US, with a front attachment for clearing mines.
The Carl Gustaf is a high tech bazooka -- a defensive weapon. TOW missiles are wire guided & obsolete, they're being provided because we're running out of Javelins. The Ukrainians need modern main battle tanks like M1 Abrams or German Leopards & Armored Fighting Vehicles like Bradleys if they intend to engage front line Russian armor in open battles.

And they should get what they need. Hopefully, they are getting training, quietly, right now.

Here's a good breakdown of what's in the latest tranche. Still defensive or insurgency stuff. Follow the links for more details.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/u ... n-missiles

Most significant is that HARM anti-radar missiles have been adapted to the Mig-29 & have been used effectively. Their cockpits don't have the compatible MFD display used in US/NATO aircraft, but apparently an I-pad tablet like device has been adapted for that task, possibly for use in their 2 seat trainer aircraft which have a limited combat capability but might benefit from the 2nd cockpit member on the complex "wild weasel" mission using the HARM's to target Russian air defense radars. Reading between the lines, Slovakia may still sell Ukraine their Mig-29's when their current Russian maint contract expires. I speculate that Poland is disassembling their Mig-29's into major sub assemblies which can be shipped to Ukraine for reassembly or cannabilized into "Franken-Migs" to keep Ukraine's Mig-29's in the air. Thus, the Poles are supplying spare parts & not transferring whole aircraft.

Every bit helps; but more would be better.

[old salt]

Ukraine scores HIMARS hit on key bridge to Kherson.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/u ... to-kherson

[PizzaSnake]

Ukraine scores HIMARS hit on key bridge to Kherson.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/u ... to-kherson

Need to take out the Kerch bridge.

[old salt]

Ukraine scores HIMARS hit on key bridge to Kherson.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/u ... to-kherson

Need to take out the Kerch bridge.

They'll need longer range missiles for their HIMARS, that would be ATACMS rounds.

https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-atacms-h ... 43626.html

[Brooklyn]

another $3 billion to Ukraine:


https://www.reuters.com/world/us-announ ... 022-08-23/


meanwhile, the needs of plenty of homeless vets go unaddressed

[HooDat]

another $3 billion to Ukraine:


https://www.reuters.com/world/us-announ ... 022-08-23/


meanwhile, the needs of plenty of homeless vets go unaddressed

it's a lot harder to make that money slip into the "correct" people's pockets when it is all spent in the US. That money going overseas helps with the laundering....

[NattyBohChamps04]

another $3 billion to Ukraine:


https://www.reuters.com/world/us-announ ... 022-08-23/


meanwhile, the needs of plenty of homeless vets go unaddressed

it's a lot harder to make that money slip into the "correct" people's pockets when it is all spent in the US. That money going overseas helps with the laundering....

I didn't see anything in the article saying that money was being sent, but rather arms. If money is being sent directly, could you post a source? Seems like the government is buying equipment from the US military industrial complex and shipping it over there for the war.

That's certainly got its own set of issues, but the money is being spent in the US. Trickling up from the taxpayers to the defense corporations at any rate, but still being spent in the US. Approx 0.06% of the annual budget. Seems like we could find more money for vets and healthcare though.

[HooDat]

another $3 billion to Ukraine:


https://www.reuters.com/world/us-announ ... 022-08-23/


meanwhile, the needs of plenty of homeless vets go unaddressed

it's a lot harder to make that money slip into the "correct" people's pockets when it is all spent in the US. That money going overseas helps with the laundering....

I didn't see anything in the article saying that money was being sent, but rather arms. If money is being sent directly, could you post a source? Seems like the government is buying equipment from the US military industrial complex and shipping it over there for the war.

That's certainly got its own set of issues, but the money is being spent in the US. Trickling up from the taxpayers to the defense corporations at any rate, but still being spent in the US. Approx 0.06% of the annual budget. Seems like we could find more money for vets and healthcare though.

You are right - the article does say that - which is different than my previous understanding. I was under the impression that we were not sending US weapons directly in order to reduce the strain on US/Russian relations - which always struck me as odd...

I feel so much better knowing all the graft stays in the US