Le Moyne d1

[lax1983]

d2 is officially dead imo with Le Moyne out.

Some of these teams have ok talent but when Anderson, Lewis, and newberry are in your top 20 it's just not that good. Harsh but I think it's the truth.

NYIT, Dowling, Merrimack, Le Moyne, Queens, Lindenwood, were all top 20 teams at given times. All gone from d2.

[BFish100]

You must not watch much D2 Lacrosse

[RedFromMI]

That and no recognition that NYIT dropped all sports and Dowling closed down.

Certainly the D2 field is somewhat different than 20 years ago (remember Bryant?) but D2 is quite competitive at the top level (look at what Limestone did last week against a top 20 and 2 top 10 teams...).

[lax1983]

I'm a d2 guy through and through I watch plenty of it. Limestone in 2014 would beat the current limestone by 20.

[greatwhitenorth]

d2 is officially dead imo with Le Moyne out.

Some of these teams have ok talent but when Anderson, Lewis, and newberry are in your top 20 it's just not that good. Harsh but I think it's the truth.

NYIT, Dowling, Merrimack, Le Moyne, Queens, Lindenwood, were all top 20 teams at given times. All gone from d2.

Newberry lost by 2 goals in both their games this year to both Limestone and Wingate - both teams in final 4 of South Region NCAA tournament. #facts

[GaitsRightHand]

d2 is officially dead imo with Le Moyne out.

Some of these teams have ok talent but when Anderson, Lewis, and newberry are in your top 20 it's just not that good. Harsh but I think it's the truth.

NYIT, Dowling, Merrimack, Le Moyne, Queens, Lindenwood, were all top 20 teams at given times. All gone from d2.

Newberry lost by 2 goals in both their games this year to both Limestone and Wingate - both teams in final 4 of South Region NCAA tournament. #facts

This is true. But the other 2 teams in the final 4, Newberry also played. Newberry lost to Rollins 22-12 and lost to LR twice... 18-6 and 17-8.

[lax1983]

I don't deny some of these teams have some talent, but I just think it's a bad argument to say that this current Newberry team would be in the top 20 of d2 even 5 years ago. Liu Post, Merrimack, Le Moyne, Dowling, NYIT, Lindenwood, and Queens are all gone now.

As a big Dii fan, I would be embarrassed if Newberry played a top-20 d3 team. Just my opinion though not meant to be dissing anyone.

[RedFromMI]

I pulled up my old KRACH ratings for the end of the regular season in 2015 (eight years ago now) where Limestone went on to win their 4th natty. I don't often publish graphical results because of the board limits on posting pictures, but looking at the graphs for that year there was a clear grouping of teams quite a bit better than the next group (1. Adelphi, 2. Le Moyne, 3. Merrimack, 4. Limestone, 5. Lake Erie, 6 LIU Post). Then there was a clear drop to the next group of five teams (7. NYIT, 8. Lindenwood, 9. Franklin Pierce, 10. Tampa, 11. Colorado Mesa). After that a steady downhill progression for the rest of the top 20 (12. Seton Hill, 13. Mt. Olive, 14. Molloy, 15. Mercyhurst, 16. Belmont Abbey, 17. Pfeiffer, 18. Florida Tech, 19. Mercy, 20. Pace).

Adelphi through Post were predicted to win 90-95% of their games (RRWP) if playing the entire D2 field, whereas by the time you get to Pace the same prediction was about 62%.

Looking at this year the situation is a bit different - big drops from 1. Le Moyne to 2. Rollins to 3. Wingate and then a plateau all the way to #10 Mercyhurst with RRWP still above 85%. Then the gradual dropoff. But even Newberry and Anderson at #16 and #17 are predicted to win at the 75% clip.

You can argue that means that D2 has fallen back, but there is no definitive evidence - only an opinion. Definitely there is more parity in D2. Some of that is the fact that in 2015 there were only 59 teams and now there are 74. And that means a lot of newer programs. Newberry and Anderson did not exist in 2015 - but that does not mean they are "bad" teams compared with the same placing within D2 of 2015. They cannot consistently win over the top 10 teams today, but neither could the 15 and 16 rank teams in 2015. But they have a bit more likelihood of doing so because of that greater parity.

As far as those teams making the fairly recent switch to D1 - none of them are doing especially well. Queens, who was dropping recently in D2, finished this year with a 2-12 record with one of those wins coming over lowly Hampton. (The other over Detroit Mercy). They got hammered by Lindenwood 15-6 (who finished 2-10 and also won over LIU).

Even Merrimack, who started playing a D1 schedule in 2020 managed a stellar 7-7 this year. Their last year in D2 finished with their second natty over Limestone but they had three losses that year, and were nowhere near the top seed in the tournament. But had a great run...

[Farfromgeneva]

I pulled up my old KRACH ratings for the end of the regular season in 2015 (eight years ago now) where Limestone went on to win their 4th natty. I don't often publish graphical results because of the board limits on posting pictures, but looking at the graphs for that year there was a clear grouping of teams quite a bit better than the next group (1. Adelphi, 2. Le Moyne, 3. Merrimack, 4. Limestone, 5. Lake Erie, 6 LIU Post). Then there was a clear drop to the next group of five teams (7. NYIT, 8. Lindenwood, 9. Franklin Pierce, 10. Tampa, 11. Colorado Mesa). After that a steady downhill progression for the rest of the top 20 (12. Seton Hill, 13. Mt. Olive, 14. Molloy, 15. Mercyhurst, 16. Belmont Abbey, 17. Pfeiffer, 18. Florida Tech, 19. Mercy, 20. Pace).

Adelphi through Post were predicted to win 90-95% of their games (RRWP) if playing the entire D2 field, whereas by the time you get to Pace the same prediction was about 62%.

Looking at this year the situation is a bit different - big drops from 1. Le Moyne to 2. Rollins to 3. Wingate and then a plateau all the way to #10 Mercyhurst with RRWP still above 85%. Then the gradual dropoff. But even Newberry and Anderson at #16 and #17 are predicted to win at the 75% clip.

You can argue that means that D2 has fallen back, but there is no definitive evidence - only an opinion. Definitely there is more parity in D2. Some of that is the fact that in 2015 there were only 59 teams and now there are 74. And that means a lot of newer programs. Newberry and Anderson did not exist in 2015 - but that does not mean they are "bad" teams compared with the same placing within D2 of 2015. They cannot consistently win over the top 10 teams today, but neither could the 15 and 16 rank teams in 2015. But they have a bit more likelihood of doing so because of that greater parity.

As far as those teams making the fairly recent switch to D1 - none of them are doing especially well. Queens, who was dropping recently in D2, finished this year with a 2-12 record with one of those wins coming over lowly Hampton. (The other over Detroit Mercy). They got hammered by Lindenwood 15-6 (who finished 2-10 and also won over LIU).

Even Merrimack, who started playing a D1 schedule in 2020 managed a stellar 7-7 this year. Their last year in D2 finished with their second natty over Limestone but they had three losses that year, and were nowhere near the top seed in the tournament. But had a great run...

It’s the coaching. Take Wolf, Sheehan, etc out who were longtime successful coaches and that makes a big difference. Some of those guys were excellent compared w TW Johnson who wasn’t equipped to be a D1 coach when he took over Hobart despite being a championship D2 coach.