~Loyola University Greyhounds 2024~

[Farfromgeneva]

Specifically Brundage or any more experienced, senior and expensive hire. Not any replacement. Does it make sense to go all in on another expensive AC at this stage in the question. In this scenario MVA doesn’t work so the argument that an expensive experienced guy is always a better hire would be incongruous. Is having an alum there worth the cost if it doesn’t work out?

Is keeping MVA worth the cost? This is setting up to be the worst season in years, if they cannot turn it around. Odds are that Toomey would never be fired for lack of performance. But is it worth the risk of keeping MVA?

I have to assume that MVA is getting paid pretty well by Loyola and I would expect more than Brundage is getting paid at Hobart. He is from the upstate area and it may take a lot to pull him away.

You have to admit there is a problem with the offense. Formerhound has stated many times that this talent pool should be producing more or at least meet the output they did last year. Something is wrong and MVA is the one in charge of the offense and the buck stops with him.

Brundage has an endowed seat who’s got a decent shot at Hobart’s HC gig when Raymond is surely fired in the next two years? Read the thread. You’re paying up again for an experienced AC when the last experienced AC who’s paid a lot is not working in the eyes here. It makes no sense to anyone who has to run an org or P&L the way it’s being tossed around here.

Then buck stops with Charlie not an assistant that’s just an absurd comment. He’s great but so was Urick, Petro and Desmond and what happened. Or JoePa, Bowden, etc. the point im making all along is it’s highly reductive to stare at MVA and say he’s the problem all is solved if we replace him. Then with who? Well we have you burn resources again on a high cost one? And you’re going to pay a premium for a guy who’s been on two sub .500 seasons and the stats won’t look good this year (tons of injuries the last three years of 30 or so games we’ve run our healthy starting six maybe 7-8 times since 21 - I think Brundage is good).

Oh…he’s an alum. You could get Matt Kerwick who looked like a rockstar running GTown O for years under Urick and a Hobart alum. Brundage > Kerwick as coach but point is thing a premium for an alum who looks good as an assistant is an expensive risk. So you want to go out and pay up for Brundage because he’s an alum but otherwise haven’t articulated why he fits but let’s go risk student fees on this move because results don’t fit what we hoped.

The players come because of Charlie. What if they aren’t as good as you think? Besides Poitras who’s clearly legit and Minicus but seay, Higgins and Kamish may not be playoff caliber starters.

Difference is age. MVA is 20 years older than Brundage. In addition in his four years at Hobart (which clearly can’t recruit like Loyola) his offense has been in top 25 GPG each year and his EMO has been top 20 twice and ranks 18th this year. That’s very good production from a younger coach who MAY be able to relate more to today’s athletes. Just watch MVA on the sidelines during a game. His interaction with players is nonexistent. His EMO is one of the worst in D1. His GPG is one of the worst in D1. He refuses to make changes. Is this due to stubbornness or due to talent? His recruitment of players is either bad or his development of the same players is poor. Sorry but I’ve watched way too many 4 star recruits not even play (or regress) while here over the past four years. In the past four years Van has gotten 12 4stars and 1 5star recruit on offense alone. Hobart, on the other hand, hasn’t had a 4 star recruit in over four years.

Lastly, Laxfam4life, who clearly has a kid on the team, consistently points out that MVA says one thing to the players and does another. Whether or not that is true you cannot ignore the results the past four years. From coming within 65 seconds and beating Duke to make it to Memorial Day weekend to 2-6 with a long pole goal from Reynolds being the difference of being 1-7. Changes need to be made.

Ok age is an answer that at least supports it. Though I don’t know the Brundage relates to his kids any better but maybe. Once you’re in your 30s I don’t see anyone really relating well.

(Btw a Hobart person I know who’s got info insists Patterson was changed to 4 star but I don’t see it and don’t care-current FR at Bart-not to mention the stars are circular and backwards looking as many on this page have discussed historically)

Im not picking any fights I just think blaming the new guy an outsider quickly doesn’t make sense or at least isn’t very thoughtful. Someone pointed out maybe Kram that the problem is larger than one person and that’s most likely correct but folks like easy buttons I guess. Just see hysterical talk here. And trusting a parent posting while their kid is in the team is a shaky proposition hopefully you understand.

Maybe MVA is not what he was. Maybe Charlie isn’t. You ever see someone get stale 20yrs into a gig even a talented person because I have all over the place. But I think you guys all need to look a lot deeper and may be disappointed if you just swap ACs and things don’t improve.

BTW don’t know what would be different but the NCAa has refused to allow Hobart to give scholarships since they were effectively forced to move to D1 in 1995. Have appealed for same status as Hop as the only other grandfathered lacrosse school and if you know real lacrosse history you know half Hobart’s D3 schedule in the 80s was D1 teams. we’ve made kids pay full freight the whole
Time until now. I know of a few we were the #2 and it flat out came down to
Money w couldn’t offer who were 4 stars. Only now that the NIL world exists did they allow us to give scholarships. Some people like a little complain at Rutgers who doesn’t know his head from his a** likes to take baby shots as a clear non athlete draping himself in others glory but folks who care about lacrosse history typically appreciate what Hobart has had to do just to be at this level and to make occasional playoffs and everything. Else with the wind in their faces. Shared conferees w Loyola and both been in PL, I’d think there’s a lot of reasons to appreciate each others programs but I know kids and people under 30 think things like that hip hop started in 2014…”man I don’t know who all y’all are!”

https://youtu.be/XmuGBNBBu3A?si=DEDvUL5zUWm-q1Na

[1766]

True, recruiting to the Charm city area can be more appealing than CNY. Hobart is finally allowed to offer athletic scholarships. We'll have the full 12.6 schollies to work with the '26 recruiting class. So, recruiting should become a bit easier. The big ? for Loyola is how satisfied are they with the way Twomey and staff are doing relative to the schools peers? Do you follow UNC's example and get rid of a good OC as a scape goat? Or does the admin clean hose and start with a clean slate? Both options have a knock on effect on recruits and potential recruits as well as team culture. I do expect that Brundage will eventually move on from Hobart, unless Raymond does before him. If Raymond were to move on, I would expect and encourage Hobart to give Brundage the HC job. Making a lateral position move would only make sense to me if it was fora top 10 team . Just my opinion, as are all of those on these pages.

HC jobs in lacrosse are not easy to come by. Maryland just lost their long time assistant to a school no one has ever heard of to become a HC. A Hobart College assistant holding out for a top 10 job is a pipe dream.

[Farfromgeneva]

Little boy is following me around. I don’t evens need to read his post but it was that quick which is pathetic…

[Formerhound]

Specifically Brundage or any more experienced, senior and expensive hire. Not any replacement. Does it make sense to go all in on another expensive AC at this stage in the question. In this scenario MVA doesn’t work so the argument that an expensive experienced guy is always a better hire would be incongruous. Is having an alum there worth the cost if it doesn’t work out?

Is keeping MVA worth the cost? This is setting up to be the worst season in years, if they cannot turn it around. Odds are that Toomey would never be fired for lack of performance. But is it worth the risk of keeping MVA?

I have to assume that MVA is getting paid pretty well by Loyola and I would expect more than Brundage is getting paid at Hobart. He is from the upstate area and it may take a lot to pull him away.

You have to admit there is a problem with the offense. Formerhound has stated many times that this talent pool should be producing more or at least meet the output they did last year. Something is wrong and MVA is the one in charge of the offense and the buck stops with him.

Brundage has an endowed seat who’s got a decent shot at Hobart’s HC gig when Raymond is surely fired in the next two years? Read the thread. You’re paying up again for an experienced AC when the last experienced AC who’s paid a lot is not working in the eyes here. It makes no sense to anyone who has to run an org or P&L the way it’s being tossed around here.

Then buck stops with Charlie not an assistant that’s just an absurd comment. He’s great but so was Urick, Petro and Desmond and what happened. Or JoePa, Bowden, etc. the point im making all along is it’s highly reductive to stare at MVA and say he’s the problem all is solved if we replace him. Then with who? Well we have you burn resources again on a high cost one? And you’re going to pay a premium for a guy who’s been on two sub .500 seasons and the stats won’t look good this year (tons of injuries the last three years of 30 or so games we’ve run our healthy starting six maybe 7-8 times since 21 - I think Brundage is good).

Oh…he’s an alum. You could get Matt Kerwick who looked like a rockstar running GTown O for years under Urick and a Hobart alum. Brundage > Kerwick as coach but point is thing a premium for an alum who looks good as an assistant is an expensive risk. So you want to go out and pay up for Brundage because he’s an alum but otherwise haven’t articulated why he fits but let’s go risk student fees on this move because results don’t fit what we hoped.

The players come because of Charlie. What if they aren’t as good as you think? Besides Poitras who’s clearly legit and Minicus but seay, Higgins and Kamish may not be playoff caliber starters.

Difference is age. MVA is 20 years older than Brundage. In addition in his four years at Hobart (which clearly can’t recruit like Loyola) his offense has been in top 25 GPG each year and his EMO has been top 20 twice and ranks 18th this year. That’s very good production from a younger coach who MAY be able to relate more to today’s athletes. Just watch MVA on the sidelines during a game. His interaction with players is nonexistent. His EMO is one of the worst in D1. His GPG is one of the worst in D1. He refuses to make changes. Is this due to stubbornness or due to talent? His recruitment of players is either bad or his development of the same players is poor. Sorry but I’ve watched way too many 4 star recruits not even play (or regress) while here over the past four years. In the past four years Van has gotten 12 4stars and 1 5star recruit on offense alone. Hobart, on the other hand, hasn’t had a 4 star recruit in over four years.

Lastly, Laxfam4life, who clearly has a kid on the team, consistently points out that MVA says one thing to the players and does another. Whether or not that is true you cannot ignore the results the past four years. From coming within 65 seconds and beating Duke to make it to Memorial Day weekend to 2-6 with a long pole goal from Reynolds being the difference of being 1-7. Changes need to be made.

Ok age is an answer that at least supports it. Though I don’t know the Brundage relates to his kids any better but maybe. Once you’re in your 30s I don’t see anyone really relating well.

(Btw a Hobart person I know who’s got info insists Patterson was changed to 4 star but I don’t see it and don’t care-current FR at Bart-not to mention the stars are circular and backwards looking as many on this page have discussed historically)

Im not picking any fights I just think blaming the new guy an outsider quickly doesn’t make sense or at least isn’t very thoughtful. Someone pointed out maybe Kram that the problem is larger than one person and that’s most likely correct but folks like easy buttons I guess. Just see hysterical talk here. And trusting a parent posting while their kid is in the team is a shaky proposition hopefully you understand.

Maybe MVA is not what he was. Maybe Charlie isn’t. You ever see someone get stale 20yrs into a gig even a talented person because I have all over the place. But I think you guys all need to look a lot deeper and may be disappointed if you just swap ACs and things don’t improve.

BTW don’t know what would be different but the NCAa has refused to allow Hobart to give scholarships since they were effectively forced to move to D1 in 1995. Have appealed for same status as Hop as the only other grandfathered lacrosse school and if you know real lacrosse history you know half Hobart’s D3 schedule in the 80s was D1 teams. we’ve made kids pay full freight the whole
Time until now. I know of a few we were the #2 and it flat out came down to
Money w couldn’t offer who were 4 stars. Only now that the NIL world exists did they allow us to give scholarships. Some people like a little complain at Rutgers who doesn’t know his head from his a** likes to take baby shots as a clear non athlete draping himself in others glory but folks who care about lacrosse history typically appreciate what Hobart has had to do just to be at this level and to make occasional playoffs and everything. Else with the wind in their faces. Shared conferees w Loyola and both been in PL, I’d think there’s a lot of reasons to appreciate each others programs but I know kids and people under 30 think things like that hip hop started in 2014…”man I don’t know who all y’all are!”

https://youtu.be/XmuGBNBBu3A?si=DEDvUL5zUWm-q1Na

Or maybe it’s because Brundage gets a lot more out of 3stars than MVA gets out of 4stars. Again, maybe it’s because he’s a better coach and player developer? He’s getting good offensive stats from mediocre rated recruits while MVA gets poor results from much higher rated recruits. Should say a lot.

[oldbartman]

True, recruiting to the Charm city area can be more appealing than CNY. Hobart is finally allowed to offer athletic scholarships. We'll have the full 12.6 schollies to work with the '26 recruiting class. So, recruiting should become a bit easier. The big ? for Loyola is how satisfied are they with the way Twomey and staff are doing relative to the schools peers? Do you follow UNC's example and get rid of a good OC as a scape goat? Or does the admin clean hose and start with a clean slate? Both options have a knock on effect on recruits and potential recruits as well as team culture. I do expect that Brundage will eventually move on from Hobart, unless Raymond does before him. If Raymond were to move on, I would expect and encourage Hobart to give Brundage the HC job. Making a lateral position move would only make sense to me if it was fora top 10 team . Just my opinion, as are all of those on these pages.

HC jobs in lacrosse are not easy to come by. Maryland just lost their long time assistant to a school no one has ever heard of to become a HC. A Hobart College assistant holding out for a top 10 job is a pipe dream.

Let me clarify this for you. I wasn't saying Brundage should hold out for a top 10 HC job. What I was trying to say is that if a top 10 OC job became available, it would make sense for him to move. OK ??

[Farfromgeneva]

Specifically Brundage or any more experienced, senior and expensive hire. Not any replacement. Does it make sense to go all in on another expensive AC at this stage in the question. In this scenario MVA doesn’t work so the argument that an expensive experienced guy is always a better hire would be incongruous. Is having an alum there worth the cost if it doesn’t work out?

Is keeping MVA worth the cost? This is setting up to be the worst season in years, if they cannot turn it around. Odds are that Toomey would never be fired for lack of performance. But is it worth the risk of keeping MVA?

I have to assume that MVA is getting paid pretty well by Loyola and I would expect more than Brundage is getting paid at Hobart. He is from the upstate area and it may take a lot to pull him away.

You have to admit there is a problem with the offense. Formerhound has stated many times that this talent pool should be producing more or at least meet the output they did last year. Something is wrong and MVA is the one in charge of the offense and the buck stops with him.

Brundage has an endowed seat who’s got a decent shot at Hobart’s HC gig when Raymond is surely fired in the next two years? Read the thread. You’re paying up again for an experienced AC when the last experienced AC who’s paid a lot is not working in the eyes here. It makes no sense to anyone who has to run an org or P&L the way it’s being tossed around here.

Then buck stops with Charlie not an assistant that’s just an absurd comment. He’s great but so was Urick, Petro and Desmond and what happened. Or JoePa, Bowden, etc. the point im making all along is it’s highly reductive to stare at MVA and say he’s the problem all is solved if we replace him. Then with who? Well we have you burn resources again on a high cost one? And you’re going to pay a premium for a guy who’s been on two sub .500 seasons and the stats won’t look good this year (tons of injuries the last three years of 30 or so games we’ve run our healthy starting six maybe 7-8 times since 21 - I think Brundage is good).

Oh…he’s an alum. You could get Matt Kerwick who looked like a rockstar running GTown O for years under Urick and a Hobart alum. Brundage > Kerwick as coach but point is thing a premium for an alum who looks good as an assistant is an expensive risk. So you want to go out and pay up for Brundage because he’s an alum but otherwise haven’t articulated why he fits but let’s go risk student fees on this move because results don’t fit what we hoped.

The players come because of Charlie. What if they aren’t as good as you think? Besides Poitras who’s clearly legit and Minicus but seay, Higgins and Kamish may not be playoff caliber starters.

Difference is age. MVA is 20 years older than Brundage. In addition in his four years at Hobart (which clearly can’t recruit like Loyola) his offense has been in top 25 GPG each year and his EMO has been top 20 twice and ranks 18th this year. That’s very good production from a younger coach who MAY be able to relate more to today’s athletes. Just watch MVA on the sidelines during a game. His interaction with players is nonexistent. His EMO is one of the worst in D1. His GPG is one of the worst in D1. He refuses to make changes. Is this due to stubbornness or due to talent? His recruitment of players is either bad or his development of the same players is poor. Sorry but I’ve watched way too many 4 star recruits not even play (or regress) while here over the past four years. In the past four years Van has gotten 12 4stars and 1 5star recruit on offense alone. Hobart, on the other hand, hasn’t had a 4 star recruit in over four years.

Lastly, Laxfam4life, who clearly has a kid on the team, consistently points out that MVA says one thing to the players and does another. Whether or not that is true you cannot ignore the results the past four years. From coming within 65 seconds and beating Duke to make it to Memorial Day weekend to 2-6 with a long pole goal from Reynolds being the difference of being 1-7. Changes need to be made.

Ok age is an answer that at least supports it. Though I don’t know the Brundage relates to his kids any better but maybe. Once you’re in your 30s I don’t see anyone really relating well.

(Btw a Hobart person I know who’s got info insists Patterson was changed to 4 star but I don’t see it and don’t care-current FR at Bart-not to mention the stars are circular and backwards looking as many on this page have discussed historically)

Im not picking any fights I just think blaming the new guy an outsider quickly doesn’t make sense or at least isn’t very thoughtful. Someone pointed out maybe Kram that the problem is larger than one person and that’s most likely correct but folks like easy buttons I guess. Just see hysterical talk here. And trusting a parent posting while their kid is in the team is a shaky proposition hopefully you understand.

Maybe MVA is not what he was. Maybe Charlie isn’t. You ever see someone get stale 20yrs into a gig even a talented person because I have all over the place. But I think you guys all need to look a lot deeper and may be disappointed if you just swap ACs and things don’t improve.

BTW don’t know what would be different but the NCAa has refused to allow Hobart to give scholarships since they were effectively forced to move to D1 in 1995. Have appealed for same status as Hop as the only other grandfathered lacrosse school and if you know real lacrosse history you know half Hobart’s D3 schedule in the 80s was D1 teams. we’ve made kids pay full freight the whole
Time until now. I know of a few we were the #2 and it flat out came down to
Money w couldn’t offer who were 4 stars. Only now that the NIL world exists did they allow us to give scholarships. Some people like a little complain at Rutgers who doesn’t know his head from his a** likes to take baby shots as a clear non athlete draping himself in others glory but folks who care about lacrosse history typically appreciate what Hobart has had to do just to be at this level and to make occasional playoffs and everything. Else with the wind in their faces. Shared conferees w Loyola and both been in PL, I’d think there’s a lot of reasons to appreciate each others programs but I know kids and people under 30 think things like that hip hop started in 2014…”man I don’t know who all y’all are!”

https://youtu.be/XmuGBNBBu3A?si=DEDvUL5zUWm-q1Na

Or maybe it’s because Brundage gets a lot more out of 3stars than MVA gets out of 4stars. Again, maybe it’s because he’s a better coach and player developer? He’s getting good offensive stats from mediocre rated recruits while MVA gets poor results from much higher rated recruits. Should say a lot.

I think it says more about the 3/4 star system because I’d put up Eric Holden, Chris Aslanian, Justin Scott, Tommy Mott, Jason Knox, Ryan Archer and a few others since 2020 up against the Loyola offenses the past few years on talent and ability alone. Those kids are gone as of the last two years. I think you are leaning on media hype too much. Hobart’s gotten plenty of offensive talent the last few years.

Here’s why, Poillon got the same results in 2019…and a lot of the kids Brundage coached were actually late Poillon recruits (he’s a terrible Xs amd Os coach, Poillon, however).

https://static.hwsathletics.com/customp ... TSRECS.FCA

While still liking Brundage did you know we’ve defined in gpg the last three seasons? Or that we see a ton of one on one lacrosse and have been at the bottom of A10 in shooting all year? Or that we go long stretches quarter in length without scoring regularly while having a 55%+ fo mostly the last few years.

[kramerica.inc]

Ok age is an answer that at least supports it. Though I don’t know the Brundage relates to his kids any better but maybe. Once you’re in your 30s I don’t see anyone really relating well.

(Btw a Hobart person I know who’s got info insists Patterson was changed to 4 star but I don’t see it and don’t care-current FR at Bart-not to mention the stars are circular and backwards looking as many on this page have discussed historically)

Im not picking any fights I just think blaming the new guy an outsider quickly doesn’t make sense or at least isn’t very thoughtful. Someone pointed out maybe Kram that the problem is larger than one person and that’s most likely correct but folks like easy buttons I guess. Just see hysterical talk here. And trusting a parent posting while their kid is in the team is a shaky proposition hopefully you understand.

Maybe MVA is not what he was. Maybe Charlie isn’t. You ever see someone get stale 20yrs into a gig even a talented person because I have all over the place. But I think you guys all need to look a lot deeper and may be disappointed if you just swap ACs and things don’t improve.

BTW don’t know what would be different but the NCAa has refused to allow Hobart to give scholarships since they were effectively forced to move to D1 in 1995. Have appealed for same status as Hop as the only other grandfathered lacrosse school and if you know real lacrosse history you know half Hobart’s D3 schedule in the 80s was D1 teams. we’ve made kids pay full freight the whole
Time until now. I know of a few we were the #2 and it flat out came down to
Money w couldn’t offer who were 4 stars. Only now that the NIL world exists did they allow us to give scholarships. Some people like a little complain at Rutgers who doesn’t know his head from his a** likes to take baby shots as a clear non athlete draping himself in others glory but folks who care about lacrosse history typically appreciate what Hobart has had to do just to be at this level and to make occasional playoffs and everything. Else with the wind in their faces. Shared conferees w Loyola and both been in PL, I’d think there’s a lot of reasons to appreciate each others programs but I know kids and people under 30 think things like that hip hop started in 2014…”man I don’t know who all y’all are!”

https://youtu.be/XmuGBNBBu3A?si=DEDvUL5zUWm-q1Na

I played for Toomey and have a few small annoyances with some things he does and doesn't do with the program. But he has a proven method and system and type of player that he looks for and that has won him a national title at a somewhat niche school. I have not.

I can tell you the school will NOT remove Toomey because of what he has done for the college and how he runs his program. It meshes with the school's mission and vision for a Mid-sized Catholic University. He does a great job with the boys off the field. And that has value to the university. It's his job for as long as he wants it. Period.

I also understand that fans are calling for MVA's head, because it's more palatable than calling for Toomey's.

The angst on these boards comes in to play because Toomey is incredibly loyal to the other coaches on staff. And MVA is the newest addition and the downturn in the offense coincides with his arrival. But mind you, the downturn comes on the heels of a national title and Pat Spencer. So is MVA getting stale or underperforming? Maybe. Maybe he just doesn't have the talent he had at UVA. So the critique on the lack of development could have legs.

I just don't think a change happens unless MVA retires.

Additionally, there are also a lot of hurt feelings on this board. Are they really parents of players? Maybe. But given the history here, I'd put more money on former players who didn't measure up in MVA's eyes. Either way, take those personal critiques with a grain of salt.

[Farfromgeneva]

True, recruiting to the Charm city area can be more appealing than CNY. Hobart is finally allowed to offer athletic scholarships. We'll have the full 12.6 schollies to work with the '26 recruiting class. So, recruiting should become a bit easier. The big ? for Loyola is how satisfied are they with the way Twomey and staff are doing relative to the schools peers? Do you follow UNC's example and get rid of a good OC as a scape goat? Or does the admin clean hose and start with a clean slate? Both options have a knock on effect on recruits and potential recruits as well as team culture. I do expect that Brundage will eventually move on from Hobart, unless Raymond does before him. If Raymond were to move on, I would expect and encourage Hobart to give Brundage the HC job. Making a lateral position move would only make sense to me if it was fora top 10 team . Just my opinion, as are all of those on these pages.

HC jobs in lacrosse are not easy to come by. Maryland just lost their long time assistant to a school no one has ever heard of to become a HC. A Hobart College assistant holding out for a top 10 job is a pipe dream.

Let me clarify this for you. I wasn't saying Brundage should hold out for a top 10 HC job. What I was trying to say is that if a top 10 OC job became available, it would make sense for him to move. OK ??

No need to respond to him he’s just a biyach about Bart because of me. Knows nothing about the history of the game or has any real stake. Just staked his personality and identity on his need for the team he likes to be awesome to make him feel better. A prodigy of 20yrs of Hop threads on social media.

The fact that he refers to Providence as a school no one has ever heard of tells then story of a myopic little boy.

If I have my way out next HC will be his assistant who has ties to CNY….

[Farfromgeneva]

In every sport there’s a program that gets new access to another level of recruits and picks the media ones that don’t work out/all hype. Tail end of Urick it was Gtown, for a stretch it was UNC and Mich, high rated star dudes who underperformed. Anyone consider the myth of Loyola doing more with less died w the title and Spencer, Loyola got new doors opened and it’s surely a lot easier than the grind of “doing more with less” for years, and maybe Charlie grabbed the “wrong” top rated kids in prior few years?

I’ve never seen this considered.

[1766]

True, recruiting to the Charm city area can be more appealing than CNY. Hobart is finally allowed to offer athletic scholarships. We'll have the full 12.6 schollies to work with the '26 recruiting class. So, recruiting should become a bit easier. The big ? for Loyola is how satisfied are they with the way Twomey and staff are doing relative to the schools peers? Do you follow UNC's example and get rid of a good OC as a scape goat? Or does the admin clean hose and start with a clean slate? Both options have a knock on effect on recruits and potential recruits as well as team culture. I do expect that Brundage will eventually move on from Hobart, unless Raymond does before him. If Raymond were to move on, I would expect and encourage Hobart to give Brundage the HC job. Making a lateral position move would only make sense to me if it was fora top 10 team . Just my opinion, as are all of those on these pages.

HC jobs in lacrosse are not easy to come by. Maryland just lost their long time assistant to a school no one has ever heard of to become a HC. A Hobart College assistant holding out for a top 10 job is a pipe dream.

Let me clarify this for you. I wasn't saying Brundage should hold out for a top 10 HC job. What I was trying to say is that if a top 10 OC job became available, it would make sense for him to move. OK ??

No need to respond to him he’s just a biyach about Bart because of me. Knows nothing about the history of the game or has any real stake. Just staked his personality and identity on his need for the team he likes to be awesome to make him feel better. A prodigy of 20yrs of Hop threads on social media.

The fact that he refers to Providence as a school no one has ever heard of tells then story of a myopic little boy.

If I have my way out next HC will be his assistant who has ties to CNY….

I wasn't even responded to you D3. I'm so in your head you think responses here are to you when you aren't even quoted lol. Dude gives off serious short guy vibes. Everyone is out to get him.

And I was talking about Jake Bernhardt. As usual, wrong again. Is there anyone on this board D3 doesn't have a beef with at this point?

Btw, you are reading my posts obviously. Stop the charade D3.

[1766]

True, recruiting to the Charm city area can be more appealing than CNY. Hobart is finally allowed to offer athletic scholarships. We'll have the full 12.6 schollies to work with the '26 recruiting class. So, recruiting should become a bit easier. The big ? for Loyola is how satisfied are they with the way Twomey and staff are doing relative to the schools peers? Do you follow UNC's example and get rid of a good OC as a scape goat? Or does the admin clean hose and start with a clean slate? Both options have a knock on effect on recruits and potential recruits as well as team culture. I do expect that Brundage will eventually move on from Hobart, unless Raymond does before him. If Raymond were to move on, I would expect and encourage Hobart to give Brundage the HC job. Making a lateral position move would only make sense to me if it was fora top 10 team . Just my opinion, as are all of those on these pages.

HC jobs in lacrosse are not easy to come by. Maryland just lost their long time assistant to a school no one has ever heard of to become a HC. A Hobart College assistant holding out for a top 10 job is a pipe dream.

Let me clarify this for you. I wasn't saying Brundage should hold out for a top 10 HC job. What I was trying to say is that if a top 10 OC job became available, it would make sense for him to move. OK ??

Sure, that's fine. Though most people would agree that Hobart to Loyola for the same role is an upgrade. Loyola is a higher profile program. I'm not sure that's a controversial statement at this point. Better league in more fertile recruiting grounds and has a National Championship at the big boy level.

[Formerhound]

In every sport there’s a program that gets new access to another level of recruits and picks the media ones that don’t work out/all hype. Tail end of Urick it was Gtown, for a stretch it was UNC and Mich, high rated star dudes who underperformed. Anyone consider the myth of Loyola doing more with less died w the title and Spencer, Loyola got new doors opened and it’s surely a lot easier than the grind of “doing more with less” for years, and maybe Charlie grabbed the “wrong” top rated kids in prior few years?

I’ve never seen this considered.

Oh it’s been considered. And IF a few of these 4star recruits didn’t pan out it would be one thing. The fact that none of them have done squat since MVA took over the offense and the fact that almost every single recruit that does play regresses over their tenure at Loyola makes that “consideration” a we bit skeptical.

[Farfromgeneva]

In every sport there’s a program that gets new access to another level of recruits and picks the media ones that don’t work out/all hype. Tail end of Urick it was Gtown, for a stretch it was UNC and Mich, high rated star dudes who underperformed. Anyone consider the myth of Loyola doing more with less died w the title and Spencer, Loyola got new doors opened and it’s surely a lot easier than the grind of “doing more with less” for years, and maybe Charlie grabbed the “wrong” top rated kids in prior few years?

I’ve never seen this considered.

Oh it’s been considered. And IF a few of these 4star recruits didn’t pan out it would be one thing. The fact that none of them have done squat since MVA took over the offense and the fact that almost every single recruit that does play regresses over their tenure at Loyola makes that “consideration” a we bit skeptical.

Alright. I mean it’s not like anyone’s changing your mind that swapping out MVA will solve all the problems. Seems like an easy button answer but maybe it’ll happen and everything will be good. Brundage is fine. And if that doesn’t work then you start looking at a decade of disappointment and probably then discussion or movement on a new HC.

[Farfromgeneva]

Btw not to hijack this but for the dirty jersey rep creeping around me a fun fact:

Since Hobart moved up to d1 we have 5 playoff appearances. Rutgers has four…

[1766]

Another D3 shortie post. Rutgers has more NCAA wins so...

[Mr3Putt]

True, recruiting to the Charm city area can be more appealing than CNY. Hobart is finally allowed to offer athletic scholarships. We'll have the full 12.6 schollies to work with the '26 recruiting class. So, recruiting should become a bit easier. The big ? for Loyola is how satisfied are they with the way Twomey and staff are doing relative to the schools peers? Do you follow UNC's example and get rid of a good OC as a scape goat? Or does the admin clean hose and start with a clean slate? Both options have a knock on effect on recruits and potential recruits as well as team culture. I do expect that Brundage will eventually move on from Hobart, unless Raymond does before him. If Raymond were to move on, I would expect and encourage Hobart to give Brundage the HC job. Making a lateral position move would only make sense to me if it was fora top 10 team . Just my opinion, as are all of those on these pages.

HC jobs in lacrosse are not easy to come by. Maryland just lost their long time assistant to a school no one has ever heard of to become a HC. A Hobart College assistant holding out for a top 10 job is a pipe dream.

Let me clarify this for you. I wasn't saying Brundage should hold out for a top 10 HC job. What I was trying to say is that if a top 10 OC job became available, it would make sense for him to move. OK ??

Haha ! Bad call bringing up SB

[laxbro11]

Ok age is an answer that at least supports it. Though I don’t know the Brundage relates to his kids any better but maybe. Once you’re in your 30s I don’t see anyone really relating well.

(Btw a Hobart person I know who’s got info insists Patterson was changed to 4 star but I don’t see it and don’t care-current FR at Bart-not to mention the stars are circular and backwards looking as many on this page have discussed historically)

Im not picking any fights I just think blaming the new guy an outsider quickly doesn’t make sense or at least isn’t very thoughtful. Someone pointed out maybe Kram that the problem is larger than one person and that’s most likely correct but folks like easy buttons I guess. Just see hysterical talk here. And trusting a parent posting while their kid is in the team is a shaky proposition hopefully you understand.

Maybe MVA is not what he was. Maybe Charlie isn’t. You ever see someone get stale 20yrs into a gig even a talented person because I have all over the place. But I think you guys all need to look a lot deeper and may be disappointed if you just swap ACs and things don’t improve.

BTW don’t know what would be different but the NCAa has refused to allow Hobart to give scholarships since they were effectively forced to move to D1 in 1995. Have appealed for same status as Hop as the only other grandfathered lacrosse school and if you know real lacrosse history you know half Hobart’s D3 schedule in the 80s was D1 teams. we’ve made kids pay full freight the whole
Time until now. I know of a few we were the #2 and it flat out came down to
Money w couldn’t offer who were 4 stars. Only now that the NIL world exists did they allow us to give scholarships. Some people like a little complain at Rutgers who doesn’t know his head from his a** likes to take baby shots as a clear non athlete draping himself in others glory but folks who care about lacrosse history typically appreciate what Hobart has had to do just to be at this level and to make occasional playoffs and everything. Else with the wind in their faces. Shared conferees w Loyola and both been in PL, I’d think there’s a lot of reasons to appreciate each others programs but I know kids and people under 30 think things like that hip hop started in 2014…”man I don’t know who all y’all are!”

https://youtu.be/XmuGBNBBu3A?si=DEDvUL5zUWm-q1Na

I played for Toomey and have a few small annoyances with some things he does and doesn't do with the program. But he has a proven method and system and type of player that he looks for and that has won him a national title at a somewhat niche school. I have not.

I can tell you the school will NOT remove Toomey because of what he has done for the college and how he runs his program. It meshes with the school's mission and vision for a Mid-sized Catholic University. He does a great job with the boys off the field. And that has value to the university. It's his job for as long as he wants it. Period.

I also understand that fans are calling for MVA's head, because it's more palatable than calling for Toomey's.

The angst on these boards comes in to play because Toomey is incredibly loyal to the other coaches on staff. And MVA is the newest addition and the downturn in the offense coincides with his arrival. But mind you, the downturn comes on the heels of a national title and Pat Spencer. So is MVA getting stale or underperforming? Maybe. Maybe he just doesn't have the talent he had at UVA. So the critique on the lack of development could have legs.

I just don't think a change happens unless MVA retires.

Additionally, there are also a lot of hurt feelings on this board. Are they really parents of players? Maybe. But given the history here, I'd put more money on former players who didn't measure up in MVA's eyes. Either way, take those personal critiques with a grain of salt.

I agree with you that Toomey will not loose his job. At some point, as you know because we played for Charlie, he is not going to tolerate the subpar or mediocre performance of the offense. Sometimes shaking things up is a good thing. I like the idea of the self scout, or having an outside entity, scout and you use the data to improve. The offensive woes lies with MVA.

"But given the history here, I'd put more money on former players who didn't measure up in MVA's eyes." This is conjecture, you have no idea who these former players are, if they played or did not play. What we do see is that there is a wide variety of viewpoints on MVA, all from different perspectives, which do not make them wrong.

[Formerhound]

Nice win today against a bad LaFayette team. Love the fact that changes were made and boys responded. Minicus with 9 points. James, Poitras and Heuston with 3 each. Freshman Trent Turner with his first game action with a goal and assist (both when game was close). Dixon with an early goal. Maybe Van is reading this site (doubt it). Let’s go on a win streak as the Patriot League is wide open.

[QuestionMark]

How is the Patriot League wide open?

[old salt]

How is the Patriot League wide open?

...any of the 6 teams most likely to qualify for the PLT could win the AQ. Approaching Ivy-like parity.

The ' hounds looked like the old Loyola today, Lafayette is not a bad team.