Abolish AQ in the Tournament

[BIGDAWG]

Is it time to start abolishing the AQ conference bids for D3. In the interest of parody and the best teams making it, this seems like a logical next step. Would you rather have Hope College or Washington and Lee in the first round? In reality all the teams in the Centennial could beat up on some of these other programs. D3 lacrosse really has become participation trophy mentality. Good teams should not be punished for playing better competition. Thoughts?

[DeepPocket]

I like this banter to start the season. So go with how you would select the “best” teams then.

[WashedUp06]

Is it time to start abolishing the AQ conference bids for D3. In the interest of parody and the best teams making it, this seems like a logical next step. Would you rather have Hope College or Washington and Lee in the first round? In reality all the teams in the Centennial could beat up on some of these other programs. D3 lacrosse really has become participation trophy mentality. Good teams should not be punished for playing better competition. Thoughts?

In theory, I love the idea of only have the best teams in the playoffs, but this would also have the potential of killing the growth of the game for those AQ conferences. What is the point of playing all season & having a conference playoff if there is no chance at all to go to the big dance! The small, random schools are what make March Madness so great and the chance of the big upset glues millions to the TV. Sure you could take the top 4-5 teams from the top 3-4 conferences and create 1 hell of a tournament, but that diminishes each regular season game and the playoffs for the majority of teams.

The best way to get more of the "worthy" teams in is by expanding the open bid pools and expanding the playoffs in general IMO

[laxdad1434]

Is it time to start abolishing the AQ conference bids for D3. In the interest of parody and the best teams making it, this seems like a logical next step. Would you rather have Hope College or Washington and Lee in the first round? In reality all the teams in the Centennial could beat up on some of these other programs. D3 lacrosse really has become participation trophy mentality. Good teams should not be punished for playing better competition. Thoughts?

In theory, I love the idea of only have the best teams in the playoffs, but this would also have the potential of killing the growth of the game for those AQ conferences. What is the point of playing all season & having a conference playoff if there is no chance at all to go to the big dance! The small, random schools are what make March Madness so great and the chance of the big upset glues millions to the TV. Sure you could take the top 4-5 teams from the top 3-4 conferences and create 1 hell of a tournament, but that diminishes each regular season game and the playoffs for the majority of teams.

The best way to get more of the "worthy" teams in is by expanding the open bid pools and expanding the playoffs in general IMO

No different in D1.

[Laxaholic123]

Is it time to start abolishing the AQ conference bids for D3. In the interest of parody and the best teams making it, this seems like a logical next step. Would you rather have Hope College or Washington and Lee in the first round? In reality all the teams in the Centennial could beat up on some of these other programs. D3 lacrosse really has become participation trophy mentality. Good teams should not be punished for playing better competition. Thoughts?

What is the point of playing all season & having a conference playoff if there is no chance at all to go to the big dance!

I agree, it would diminish the conference playoffs. It gives smaller teams within the conference an opportunity to upset the top team and make the NCAA playoffs if they otherwise wouldn't have (remember HSC 2017?). And it makes beating teams like Lynchburg, Roanoke and HSC in the regular season even more important with less teams having bids.

[UpperCorner22]

Is it time to start abolishing the AQ conference bids for D3. In the interest of parody and the best teams making it, this seems like a logical next step. Would you rather have Hope College or Washington and Lee in the first round? In reality all the teams in the Centennial could beat up on some of these other programs. D3 lacrosse really has become participation trophy mentality. Good teams should not be punished for playing better competition. Thoughts?

What is the point of playing all season & having a conference playoff if there is no chance at all to go to the big dance!

I agree, it would diminish the conference playoffs. It gives smaller teams within the conference an opportunity to upset the top team and make the NCAA playoffs if they otherwise wouldn't have (remember HSC 2017?). And it makes beating teams like Lynchburg, Roanoke and HSC in the regular season even more important with less teams having bids.

I know this will never be implemented - but its a thought... have some of the lower conferences play each other as a "play-in" - like the play-in games in the NCAA basketball tournament - then increase the number of at-large invites to the tournament.

[Jumbo]

I don’t like this idea. With this logic, why even have D3 playoffs? WhY have a D3 national championship? Why don’t you call the D3 national champ, a participation trophy? We all know that no D3 team would beat the D1 champs.
We have D3 lax to grow the game. And D3 champs, to grow the game. If you only had a D3 playoff with the top 16 teams, the sport would struggle to grow. And to your W&L reference, they haven’t been a top 16 team in a few years, so they wouldn’t even be in the tourney

[smoova]

For the reasons other folks have laid out above, I'd rather expand the tourney field (or adopt additional play-in rounds as @UpperCorner22 suggested earlier) than abolish the AQ.

The problem is timing - there isn't enough time between the end of conference tournaments and Memorial Day to fit in 2-3 extra games and the DIII championship game will be cemented on Memorial Day so long as the DI game is there as well.

Once DI breaks the bond with Memorial Day (which I've read is driven primarily by tradition and schools' desire to get kids off campus by June), then it opens up all kinds of flexibility for DIII.

[Nosey Ned]

We have this discussion every year, usually in April when someone’s team from a top conference is on the outside looking in.

The bottom line is the AQ isn’t going away. And it doesn’t matter anyway because the best 4 teams wind up battling it out anyway in the Final Four and the best team that year does win the National Championship. If you open it up to teams that get a “second bite of the apple” you’ll open it up to a debate as to whether the best team did win the Championship. Is it fair to ask a team that’s beaten a particular team twice already, to beat them a third time? IMHO - no it isn’t. And if you give that losing team a third chance and this time they win - are they really the best team in the country?

Win your AQ or have a great Conference Tournament and/or an impressive OOC record and make it impossible to leave you out. If you can’t do that you aren’t the best team in the country anyway!!! That’s what the tournament is all about in the end - crown a deserving National Champion. With the current setup, whoever wins it definitely deserves it. IMHO

[smoova]

The bottom line is the AQ isn’t going away. And it doesn’t matter anyway because the best 4 teams wind up battling it out anyway in the Final Four and the best team that year does win the National Championship. If you open it up to teams that get a “second bite of the apple” you’ll open it up to a debate as to whether the best team did win the Championship. Is it fair to ask a team that’s beaten a particular team twice already, to beat them a third time? IMHO - no it isn’t. And if you give that losing team a third chance and this time they win - are they really the best team in the country?

Wesleyan has entered the chat ... https://athletics.wesleyan.edu/sports/m ... edule/2018

[Jumbo]

The bottom line is the AQ isn’t going away. And it doesn’t matter anyway because the best 4 teams wind up battling it out anyway in the Final Four and the best team that year does win the National Championship. If you open it up to teams that get a “second bite of the apple” you’ll open it up to a debate as to whether the best team did win the Championship. Is it fair to ask a team that’s beaten a particular team twice already, to beat them a third time? IMHO - no it isn’t. And if you give that losing team a third chance and this time they win - are they really the best team in the country?

Wesleyan has entered the chat ... https://athletics.wesleyan.edu/sports/m ... edule/2018

Dam. They took care of #1,#2, and #3 in a row to win the title.

[smoova]

The bottom line is the AQ isn’t going away. And it doesn’t matter anyway because the best 4 teams wind up battling it out anyway in the Final Four and the best team that year does win the National Championship. If you open it up to teams that get a “second bite of the apple” you’ll open it up to a debate as to whether the best team did win the Championship. Is it fair to ask a team that’s beaten a particular team twice already, to beat them a third time? IMHO - no it isn’t. And if you give that losing team a third chance and this time they win - are they really the best team in the country?

Wesleyan has entered the chat ... https://athletics.wesleyan.edu/sports/m ... edule/2018

Dam. They took care of #1,#2, and #3 in a row to win the title.

And lost twice to Tufts during the regular season before knocking them off in the tourney ...

[Nosey Ned]

The bottom line is the AQ isn’t going away. And it doesn’t matter anyway because the best 4 teams wind up battling it out anyway in the Final Four and the best team that year does win the National Championship. If you open it up to teams that get a “second bite of the apple” you’ll open it up to a debate as to whether the best team did win the Championship. Is it fair to ask a team that’s beaten a particular team twice already, to beat them a third time? IMHO - no it isn’t. And if you give that losing team a third chance and this time they win - are they really the best team in the country?

Wesleyan has entered the chat ... https://athletics.wesleyan.edu/sports/m ... edule/2018

Dam. They took care of #1,#2, and #3 in a row to win the title.

And lost twice to Tufts during the regular season before knocking them off in the tourney ...

Kinda kills my 2 losses to same team argument. But hey, I still think that is tough pill for Tufts to swallow - I’m sure they felt “why them again”. But Wesleyan also proves my point. They made the Tournament because of their success in the regular season and NESCAC Tournament and made the committee give them an at large. Like I said, play your way in and they did.

AQ format isn’t going away.

[Jumbo]

Strongest team at the end of the season is the champ

[Nosey Ned]

Strongest team at the end of the season is the champ

As it should be … and I think the strongest teams (read all teams with legit chance to win it all) do make the tournament as it’s constructed now.

Just curious because I can’t even remember what I had for breakfast. Were the Tufts faithful up in arms at the time for having to face them a 3rd time? Did they claim a 4th game should be played?

[SixBySix]

In reality all the teams in the Centennial could beat up on some of these other programs.

Tell me you didn't watch any McDaniel games last year without telling me you didn't watch any McDaniel games last year...

[Leonard Washington]

Is it time to start abolishing the AQ conference bids for D3.

No

In the interest of parody and the best teams making it, this seems like a logical next step.

If you are one of the best teams in the country, then win your AQ or upgrade your schedule and grab a couple wins that way

Would you rather have Hope College or Washington and Lee in the first round?

I'd like to have both, especially if they take care of their own business

In reality all the teams in the Centennial could beat up on some of these other programs.

I will refer to the recent post by SixbySix

D3 lacrosse really has become participation trophy mentality.

If I am reading between the lines then I guess ALL of DIII sports have been giving participation trophies and seems like that trend has been going on for a while now

Good teams should not be punished for playing better competition.

So I guess "good teams" should be rewarded for not handling their business and losing to better competition. Noted

[tiger_fan]

I choose to believe that BIGDAWG is playing a joke on all of us.

He did say "in the interest of parody" not parity, hahaha!

[MDlacrosse45]

BIGDAWG is just a Salisbury fan who has refused to believe they are no longer the Alphas of D3 lacrosse

[dp68]

Moot argument. The issue of weak tourney entries from "undeserving" conferences exists for all college men's and women's sports from D1 down to JUCO. This argument comes up for all sports every year. In particular, D3 football usually pits a horrible AQ entrant against Mount Union or North Central in the first round, and the game is unwatchable.

But the NCAA wants inclusion and growth, so none of this will ever change, no matter how many strong teams get left out of the playoffs in favor of AQ entrants, who are basically cannon fodder for the top seeds. Also, the odds of expanding the playoffs are so long they're not even worth mentioning. While playoff expansion on the D3 level would be fun, and it would solve the "powerhouses left out" issue, it will never happen. There are no revenue generating sports on the D2 and D3 levels. The NCAA loses money on our tournaments and has little reason to expand the fields. As the number of teams and conferences grow, the NCAA will expand the field to keep up, but they will do so by adding more AQ's for new conferences. The at-large bids won't keep pace.