Long time coming…

[MDlaxfan76]

The more I think about it I'm really not seeing a downside to extending it through high school. There can still be individual showcase events and prospect days based on grad year.

We are on the same page here, but I see downsides for two groups: (i) wealthy parents would lose an easy way to purchase an advantage for their unexceptional offspring and (ii) college coaches would be forced to evaluate and coach more players who are further from full maturity. As we've both noted up-thread, the entire club lacrosse system exists to serve those two groups.

I think another issue is enforcement. Tournaments can barely run schedules and parking. I am sure anyone with a kid who played club lacrosse would trust clubs completely with "self" regulation. I think it is an issue at youth and needs to be monitored. I think for HS age teams the juice is not worth the squeeze. If a coach wants to watch a team why not just have HS divisions and let kids play where the coaches will be. I think age based HS teams would just make the high dollar showcases and prospect camps the defacto recruiting platform. My son is finished with recruiting so no horse in the race.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJfbRj3L38o

Funny.

On the serious topic, enforcement is actually quite simple, done by most every other sport.
Gotta produce a birth certificate, coaches gather and submit, no birth certificate, no play.
Coaches do so before the season, so not scrambling come game time.
Phony certificate can get coach expelled, team expelled, as well as kid.
Rarely, but sometimes, happens.

We needed to do this with youth football (also needed to validate weight), and I understand that serious soccer requires birth certificates as well.
My understanding is that this is done in most sports.

Can play 'up' but not down.

[OSVAlacrosse]

I think another issue is enforcement. Tournaments can barely run schedules and parking. I am sure anyone with a kid who played club lacrosse would trust clubs completely with "self" regulation. I think it is an issue at youth and needs to be monitored. I think for HS age teams the juice is not worth the squeeze. If a coach wants to watch a team why not just have HS divisions and let kids play where the coaches will be. I think age based HS teams would just make the high dollar showcases and prospect camps the defacto recruiting platform. My son is finished with recruiting so no horse in the race.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJfbRj3L38o

Absolutely - nothing changes at the HS level until the college coaches are forced to change (because they certainly won't demand the change themselves). The juice is only worth the squeeze if folks want lacrosse to improve beyond its current form. I don't like how easy it is for people to purchase the right to have their 17 year old "junior" evaluated against 14 and 15 year-olds whose parents aren't as wealthy or crafty. I recognize and accept that other folks think the current system is just fine.

I've coached teams in at least 10 boom lacrosse tournaments over the years and the Boomtown Classic and Boomerang and still the most fun tournaments my kids ever played. I love those guys and they certainly share my opinion on the shameful nature of the current recruiting scheme.

I would have loved to have my son play in or coach a team in a "boom" tournament. I think they are all out west? Best line of the video: "raise your hand if you think your parents make more than $1M per year."

[kramerica.inc]

It's simple.
Soccer uses birth certificates and you have to submit in the preseason.
Some leagues keep their own book at the lower levels.
There are also approved verification services that do it for cheap/easy if your team travels or plays in lots of tournaments.

[Farfromgeneva]

It's simple.
Soccer uses birth certificates and you have to submit in the preseason.
Some leagues keep their own book at the lower levels.
There are also approved verification services that do it for cheap/easy if your team travels or plays in lots of tournaments.

What does it say about parents that a sport requires seeing birth certificates? Separate discussion but man…when did honor system become a joke

[Laxxal22]

It's simple.
Soccer uses birth certificates and you have to submit in the preseason.
Some leagues keep their own book at the lower levels.
There are also approved verification services that do it for cheap/easy if your team travels or plays in lots of tournaments.

What does it say about parents that a sport requires seeing birth certificates? Separate discussion but man…when did honor system become a joke

Probably 20 years ago when Danny Almonte was throwing mid 70s gas as a 14 year old in The Little League World Series.

[smoova]

What does it say about parents that a sport requires seeing birth certificates? Separate discussion but man…when did honor system become a joke

Oh sweet summer child ... I know you're just getting started in coaching (and I applaud you for doing it), but hold onto your hat - the parent shenanigans you will see over the next 10 years are gonna blow your mind.

[Farfromgeneva]

What does it say about parents that a sport requires seeing birth certificates? Separate discussion but man…when did honor system become a joke

Oh sweet summer child ... I know you're just getting started in coaching (and I applaud you for doing it), but hold onto your hat - the parent shenanigans you will see over the next 10 years are gonna blow your mind.

Luckily I played football in college and still lift and my coaching style is a assistant/S&C coach-all energy, positive but loud and firm. Intense. Not by design but I think they aren’t messing with me.

[smoova]

What does it say about parents that a sport requires seeing birth certificates? Separate discussion but man…when did honor system become a joke

Oh sweet summer child ... I know you're just getting started in coaching (and I applaud you for doing it), but hold onto your hat - the parent shenanigans you will see over the next 10 years are gonna blow your mind.

Luckily I played football in college and still lift and my coaching style is a assistant/S&C coach-all energy, positive but loud and firm. Intense. Not by design but I think they aren’t messing with me.

I admire your attitude and wish you the best of luck!

[Farfromgeneva]

What does it say about parents that a sport requires seeing birth certificates? Separate discussion but man…when did honor system become a joke

Oh sweet summer child ... I know you're just getting started in coaching (and I applaud you for doing it), but hold onto your hat - the parent shenanigans you will see over the next 10 years are gonna blow your mind.

Luckily I played football in college and still lift and my coaching style is a assistant/S&C coach-all energy, positive but loud and firm. Intense. Not by design but I think they aren’t messing with me.

I admire your attitude and wish you the best of luck!

As soon as I posted the prior I’m sure I set myself up to catch a future attempted murder charge on a parent within five years. Realize that I knocked hard on that wood.

[MA Lax Fan]

What does it say about parents that a sport requires seeing birth certificates? Separate discussion but man…when did honor system become a joke

Oh sweet summer child ... I know you're just getting started in coaching (and I applaud you for doing it), but hold onto your hat - the parent shenanigans you will see over the next 10 years are gonna blow your mind.

Luckily I played football in college and still lift and my coaching style is a assistant/S&C coach-all energy, positive but loud and firm. Intense. Not by design but I think they aren’t messing with me.

I admire your attitude and wish you the best of luck!

What does it say about parents that a sport requires seeing birth certificates? Separate discussion but man…when did honor system become a joke

Oh sweet summer child ... I know you're just getting started in coaching (and I applaud you for doing it), but hold onto your hat - the parent shenanigans you will see over the next 10 years are gonna blow your mind.

Luckily I played football in college and still lift and my coaching style is a assistant/S&C coach-all energy, positive but loud and firm. Intense. Not by design but I think they aren’t messing with me.

Anyone who declares themselves as an “alpha” coach and backs it up with “parents won’t mess with me” should have tons of success.

[Farfromgeneva]

What does it say about parents that a sport requires seeing birth certificates? Separate discussion but man…when did honor system become a joke

Oh sweet summer child ... I know you're just getting started in coaching (and I applaud you for doing it), but hold onto your hat - the parent shenanigans you will see over the next 10 years are gonna blow your mind.

Luckily I played football in college and still lift and my coaching style is a assistant/S&C coach-all energy, positive but loud and firm. Intense. Not by design but I think they aren’t messing with me.

I admire your attitude and wish you the best of luck!

What does it say about parents that a sport requires seeing birth certificates? Separate discussion but man…when did honor system become a joke

Oh sweet summer child ... I know you're just getting started in coaching (and I applaud you for doing it), but hold onto your hat - the parent shenanigans you will see over the next 10 years are gonna blow your mind.

Luckily I played football in college and still lift and my coaching style is a assistant/S&C coach-all energy, positive but loud and firm. Intense. Not by design but I think they aren’t messing with me.

Anyone who declares themselves as an “alpha” coach and backs it up with “parents won’t mess with me” should have tons of success.

So you double quoted that and ignored the one right above you eh??

[MDlaxfan76]

I may have recommended this before, but we found the Positive Coaching Alliance training to be very helpful, especially in preparing oneself for the gauntlet of nutso parents and coaches, whether in your own league or team or those of opponents.

Worth the effort.

https://positivecoach.org

[Farfromgeneva]

I may have recommended this before, but we found the Positive Coaching Alliance training to be very helpful, especially in preparing oneself for the gauntlet of nutso parents and coaches, whether in your own league or team or those of opponents.

Worth the effort.

https://positivecoach.org

Yes and thanks again.

Seriously though in town Atlanta lacrosse is so thin and the area is pretty dominated by suburban areas that the parents in our league are all pretty chill. And I’ve found as a generalization, especially below HS, that the parents and related in the burbs seem to have fewer other important things in their lives than their kids winning early by hook or crook. We got beat up all year in 4/5th grade by teams who all had many 12-13yr olds. No home field so we traveled 35-50 min to games all season. They’d hack the ‘ish out of our kids despite already having a 6-18” advantage yet our one third grader who was 2/3 my sons size never avoided being in the middle of a GB battler usually on the ground but regularly grabbing the ball or the two kids who when we’d usually give up a 3-4 goal run in losing most 7-2, 9-4 type games (clearing was a major issue, hated doing it but occasionally run my beat kids at D and would have my more intelligent ones play mid and switch on clears by seasons end)

I had many opposing team parents wanting a piece of me but I only cares about the safety, enjoyment and effort of mine and anything that gets in that way is a problem that has to go through me. Last game of the season we were really at a dbag spot and their parents are whining about their 6’ goalie being touched but we’re in relentlessly hacking away at our kids, couldn’t blame the ref he tossed one boy and called many but it was impossible to call it all. Walked over towards the stands where two of my dads were and declared loudly, “this is why I hate the suburbs” which has a few of their parents taking umbrage but mine weren’t going to take their stuff after that and had them sit back down. So I’m ok so far just need to get their skills up because I learned after the season that this is building the system in town for the future of the APS programs. And…I didn’t think I could ever care much about other peoples kids once I had my own (or before that if I’m being honest) but even the rat f**k ones constantly in my ear about me getting stuck with the 8:30am Saturday practice slot as if that was my choice…

Appreciate all the insights and help I could glean around here. I’m a reformed Hobart football player who just happened to get into lacrosse by virtue of having mostly lacrosse friends there so better than many around Atlanta but not experienced like most in the mid Atlantic, CNY or LI. Just a “towel waiver” who taught them the last game about Tewaarton and the concept of little brother of war and hope half or more make it part of their lives through HS, learn teamwork and life skills from it and have fun.

[kramerica.inc]

What does it say about parents that a sport requires seeing birth certificates? Separate discussion but man…when did honor system become a joke

Oh sweet summer child ... I know you're just getting started in coaching (and I applaud you for doing it), but hold onto your hat - the parent shenanigans you will see over the next 10 years are gonna blow your mind.

Luckily I played football in college and still lift and my coaching style is a assistant/S&C coach-all energy, positive but loud and firm. Intense. Not by design but I think they aren’t messing with me.

I admire your attitude and wish you the best of luck!

As soon as I posted the prior I’m sure I set myself up to catch a future attempted murder charge on a parent within five years. Realize that I knocked hard on that wood.

Good luck indeed. You’ll need it.

The youth lax culture is terrible. And the more I am around the clubs and tourneys, I am really starting to hate the sport I loved for so long

I put it at the feet of the clubs and USL. It went downhill sharply with early recruiting. Never recovered.

There is a chance for it all to change now, but I won’t believe it until it happens.

Decisions are being made with our sport SOLELY with a few small, greedy, parasitic businesses in mind, not for the kids.

USL and others know it, but they allow it to happen. Meanwhile the sport goes in the toilet. Lacrosse will remain a tiny niche sport as long as a few tournament directors and club owners laziness and “wants” are prioritized over the kids and the game.

Any other sport would make a decision based on what is right for the game and safe for the kids. The clubs would be fine if this change happened, they wouldn’t lose money. They just don’t want to … because they are lazy.

It’s why many of them got into lax in the first place- Because they are lazy lax guys, and only know … lax. Too lazy, dull or unimaginative to do anything else after college.

[Farfromgeneva]

What does it say about parents that a sport requires seeing birth certificates? Separate discussion but man…when did honor system become a joke

Oh sweet summer child ... I know you're just getting started in coaching (and I applaud you for doing it), but hold onto your hat - the parent shenanigans you will see over the next 10 years are gonna blow your mind.

Luckily I played football in college and still lift and my coaching style is a assistant/S&C coach-all energy, positive but loud and firm. Intense. Not by design but I think they aren’t messing with me.

I admire your attitude and wish you the best of luck!

As soon as I posted the prior I’m sure I set myself up to catch a future attempted murder charge on a parent within five years. Realize that I knocked hard on that wood.

Good luck indeed. You’ll need it.

The youth lax culture is terrible. And the more I am around the clubs and tourneys, I am really starting to hate the sport I loved for so long

I put it at the feet of the clubs and USL. It went downhill sharply with early recruiting. Never recovered.

There is a chance for it all to change now, but I won’t believe it until it happens.

Decisions are being made with our sport SOLELY with a few small, greedy, parasitic businesses in mind, not for the kids.

USL and others know it, but they allow it to happen. Meanwhile the sport goes in the toilet. Lacrosse will remain a tiny niche sport as long as a few tournament directors and club owners laziness and “wants” are prioritized over the kids and the game.

Any other sport would make a decision based on what is right for the game and safe for the kids. The clubs would be fine if this change happened, they wouldn’t lose money. They just don’t want to … because they are lazy.

It’s why many of them got into lax in the first place- Because they are lazy lax guys, and only know … lax. Too lazy, dull or unimaginative to do anything else after college.

That's where as much as I loathe the PLL currently as it's constructed having another outlet, especially now that sales and trading jobs on the street, which are a lot of golf and high energy, personality driven gigs have disappeared, is important. So it's not just a place to hide out in the real world for the uninitiated.

https://lnc-partners.com/lnc-partners-e ... i9-sports/

"we run sports" (not the kids or their families - says it all) - https://threestep.com/
https://juggernautcap.com/

https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/ ... 3#overview

Roark is in my backyard - https://www.ussportscamps.com/news/yout ... -i9-sports

[smoova]

Good luck indeed. You’ll need it.

The youth lax culture is terrible. And the more I am around the clubs and tourneys, I am really starting to hate the sport I loved for so long

I put it at the feet of the clubs and USL. It went downhill sharply with early recruiting. Never recovered.

There is a chance for it all to change now, but I won’t believe it until it happens.

Decisions are being made with our sport SOLELY with a few small, greedy, parasitic businesses in mind, not for the kids.

USL and others know it, but they allow it to happen. Meanwhile the sport goes in the toilet. Lacrosse will remain a tiny niche sport as long as a few tournament directors and club owners laziness and “wants” are prioritized over the kids and the game.

Any other sport would make a decision based on what is right for the game and safe for the kids. The clubs would be fine if this change happened, they wouldn’t lose money. They just don’t want to … because they are lazy.

It’s why many of them got into lax in the first place- Because they are lazy lax guys, and only know … lax. Too lazy, dull or unimaginative to do anything else after college.

USL is powerless because virtually all of the summer/fall clubs/tournaments operate outside its sphere of influence: the more rules the USL rolls out, the more irrelevant it becomes. The real power brokers in modern lacrosse are the college coaches. If they actually cared about the future of the sport, they'd limit recruiting to events sponsored/approved by USA Lacrosse. But they won't do that for the same reason they needed the women to save them from the early recruiting death spiral.

[kramerica.inc]

I hear that all the time with this topic. "USL is powerless."

With that, I agree. They are 100% powerless. But their main goal is to drive forward with best practices and positive messaging.

Check out their website. They most certainly have priorities and messaging that they are pushing. ALL THE TIME.

Youth safety, competitive balance, and real sport growth are not priorities. Or this would have been mentioned 3 years ago when early recruiting was nixed. I see lots of topics on the cover of USL magazine. None EVER mention the biggest issue facing our sport.

USL is wisely pushing diversity, equity and inclusion. It's needed in the sport. I just can't believe that they don't realize that overall safety, fairness and competitive balance are step #1 for DEI.

[kramerica.inc]

What does it say about parents that a sport requires seeing birth certificates? Separate discussion but man…when did honor system become a joke

Oh sweet summer child ... I know you're just getting started in coaching (and I applaud you for doing it), but hold onto your hat - the parent shenanigans you will see over the next 10 years are gonna blow your mind.

Luckily I played football in college and still lift and my coaching style is a assistant/S&C coach-all energy, positive but loud and firm. Intense. Not by design but I think they aren’t messing with me.

I admire your attitude and wish you the best of luck!

As soon as I posted the prior I’m sure I set myself up to catch a future attempted murder charge on a parent within five years. Realize that I knocked hard on that wood.

Good luck indeed. You’ll need it.

The youth lax culture is terrible. And the more I am around the clubs and tourneys, I am really starting to hate the sport I loved for so long

I put it at the feet of the clubs and USL. It went downhill sharply with early recruiting. Never recovered.

There is a chance for it all to change now, but I won’t believe it until it happens.

Decisions are being made with our sport SOLELY with a few small, greedy, parasitic businesses in mind, not for the kids.

USL and others know it, but they allow it to happen. Meanwhile the sport goes in the toilet. Lacrosse will remain a tiny niche sport as long as a few tournament directors and club owners laziness and “wants” are prioritized over the kids and the game.

Any other sport would make a decision based on what is right for the game and safe for the kids. The clubs would be fine if this change happened, they wouldn’t lose money. They just don’t want to … because they are lazy.

It’s why many of them got into lax in the first place- Because they are lazy lax guys, and only know … lax. Too lazy, dull or unimaginative to do anything else after college.

That's where as much as I loathe the PLL currently as it's constructed having another outlet, especially now that sales and trading jobs on the street, which are a lot of golf and high energy, personality driven gigs have disappeared, is important. So it's not just a place to hide out in the real world for the uninitiated.

https://lnc-partners.com/lnc-partners-e ... i9-sports/

"we run sports" (not the kids or their families - says it all) - https://threestep.com/
https://juggernautcap.com/

https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/ ... 3#overview

Roark is in my backyard - https://www.ussportscamps.com/news/yout ... -i9-sports

Wow. Eye opening. Interesting to see who's driving this.

Quite telling of the priorities.

[smoova]

I hear that all the time with this topic. "USL is powerless."

With that, I agree. They are 100% powerless. But their main goal is to drive forward with best practices and positive messaging.

Check out their website. They most certainly have priorities and messaging that they are pushing. ALL THE TIME.

Youth safety, competitive balance, and real sport growth are not priorities. Or this would have been mentioned 3 years ago when early recruiting was nixed. I see lots of topics on the cover of USL magazine. None EVER mention the biggest issue facing our sport.

USL is wisely pushing diversity, equity and inclusion. It's needed in the sport. I just can't believe that they don't realize that overall safety, fairness and competitive balance are step #1 for DEI.

USL leadership is wise enough to push only those priorities that are not overtly offensive to the real power brokers.

FFG is correct - there is now serious money in the youth sports racket, but the racket itself exists to serve college coaches (particularly in lacrosse). If the coaches change the rules, the market and the money will adapt.

[OSVAlacrosse]

I hear that all the time with this topic. "USL is powerless."

With that, I agree. They are 100% powerless. But their main goal is to drive forward with best practices and positive messaging.

Check out their website. They most certainly have priorities and messaging that they are pushing. ALL THE TIME.

Youth safety, competitive balance, and real sport growth are not priorities. Or this would have been mentioned 3 years ago when early recruiting was nixed. I see lots of topics on the cover of USL magazine. None EVER mention the biggest issue facing our sport.

USL is wisely pushing diversity, equity and inclusion. It's needed in the sport. I just can't believe that they don't realize that overall safety, fairness and competitive balance are step #1 for DEI.

USL leadership is wise enough to push only those priorities that are not overtly offensive to the real power brokers.

FFG is correct - there is now serious money in the youth sports racket, but the racket itself exists to serve college coaches (particularly in lacrosse). If the coaches change the rules, the market and the money will adapt.

Having just completed the recruiting process with my son, I have watched a group of kids develop and commit to college programs. For the most part, the system works. The kids who worked the hardest and were the strongest players ended up getting college looks and offers. Most if not all of these kids started in a youth rec league which was low cost and low travel. As the years went by the better kids wanted better competition and went to stronger clubs, the competition was better and by the time HS evaluation started they all knew who the better players were. This is easy for the coaches as they know which clubs are attracting the top players and they can go to one place and see several kids at the same event. That is the value they bring. Why would college coaches want anything to change? Only about 3% of players get a D1 offer and only 7% of players play in college. What should college coaches change? Does enforcing an age requirement help them? The HS event was open to all ages.

Youth lacrosse is a whole different story. Our recreational league was age based but still had two year gaps. We could still see a huge player v. much smaller player who was almost 24 months younger. Is that a safety issue? Not sure how you work around that. As far as competitive balance isn't that the opposite of what the club is trying to achieve? They create the best club they can. Many even make national teams. I think we could create a system like a youth rec league with two year gaps and "fair" competition base on A, B, C levels like a rec program. This would be fair and inclusive. Problem is the parents will find a way to get the best players together and game the system. The same is true for basketball and football why would lacrosse be different? The sport of lacrosse is not all about college recruiting so I am not sure the college coaches are the ones needed to fix it. The real problem is that our youth program (NVYLL) was the largest in all of US lacrosse when I started coaching at the youth level and now it is shrinking fast. It used to be tough to make the A team now they have trouble fielding two teams. We have more clubs and far fewer players trying out for these clubs. The market supply and demand will cause the: True lacrosse, NLF, 3 Step, Madlax, folks ect to re-think the system as they are the only ones that can change the system.