Long time coming…

[Farfromgeneva]

But the bolded part: are you saying that it was wrong ("insane") for these older kids to be moved up because they were older, held back not for athletics but rather academics? And yet you're saying these are "far more competitive" "prototypical" lacrosse parents...? Or was it "insane" there were so many older kids on that AA team?

Just looking for explanation, not arguing.

I think it's insane boys graduate high school at 19 regularly now regardless of the reason. I understand why parents do it, however. The fact that there were six of ten starters were too old shows how widespread it was. All of those boys will graduate high school at 19. At my high school years ago, there was only one, and he was considered weird. (Turns out he was a good dude.)

As for parent competitiveness, it seems to align with family income. So lacrosse > soccer > basketball = football. It doesn't spill over to the country club sports in the same way. There are more holdbacks for lacrosse followed by basketball. Soccer seems to have the opposite issue where young kids are competing to move up.

Happy to explain more if I'm not being clear. Didn't think you were argumentative at all.

Got it.

At least when I was paying closer attention, most of those who were 19 turned 19 within a month or two of graduation...very rare to see it mid-year. And most of those who one might consider 'older' were summer babies, 'held back' through extra pre-school year instead of pushed ahead and young for class above. Seems like there's more of those happening, and more attention to it is causing more of the 'competitive' parents to make that decision.

and yeah, for many of these parents it's a maybe $20k decision to do another pre-K year in private school.

And it does seem to be a factor...the 3 most heavily recruited lax players in my son's '12 HS class were all summer babies, June, July. The next two, including my son, were fall babies. The lesser recruited were fall and winter, one summer.

But as I wrote earlier, this particular set of kids "played up" throughout the MS and HS years, competing regularly against kids in one or two classes above. It wasn't playing down in that sense.

As you know I’m a pre k “holdback” or repeat year parent with my son being 8/23 birthday and school starting down here 8/1 it felt weird when in the first year of pre K 4-5 kids were turning 5yrs old 1-3 weeks before my son turned 4 socially and emotionally. His sister is 22mo younger with a June Bday (day before mine which rendered my bday irrelevant for the rest of time) but only 1yr apart in school now so it’ll be interesting as they get older to watch how they handle it being on the older and younger side of their classes.

Not quite $20k for the extra year, know I was subsidizing my wifes work income back then vs stay at home as a mom but more like $2,500mo total with like $1,100/mo for pre K in the split so call it an extra $12k or so. Think it made sense for our family but I actually was leaning against repeating pre K exactly because I loathe the super parents who hold their kids back or reclass as teenagers and think that’s doing a disservice to their kids long run. But pulled the trigger on it anyway.

I'm certainly not an opponent. I went to 'Pilot Class" as did my sister, my son, her kids...her son she held back an extra year from the twin daughter as the daughter was clearly very swift in every aspect whereas the son was clearly going to have learning issues (great young man now, but struggled). Made us on the older side but not a full year.

Yeah, maybe $12k in the shorthaul, but when you add up the tuition increases year to year over the following 12 of secondary...adds up. Might be more than $20k overall...and of course, in some jurisdictions even the pre-k year can be $20k +.

Might be $20k here now my son is rising to 5th grade in a week and a half and inflation and such. I just know it was around $2,500/mo for the two and the older pre k one was cheaper (we didn’t get into the Ga state lottery funded free Pre K program that is nice for some here and skews towards lower income but not low income oriented per se).

Out bigger issue now is the two out of class years as young ages.

[LI13]

But the bolded part: are you saying that it was wrong ("insane") for these older kids to be moved up because they were older, held back not for athletics but rather academics? And yet you're saying these are "far more competitive" "prototypical" lacrosse parents...? Or was it "insane" there were so many older kids on that AA team?

Just looking for explanation, not arguing.

I think it's insane boys graduate high school at 19 regularly now regardless of the reason. I understand why parents do it, however. The fact that there were six of ten starters were too old shows how widespread it was. All of those boys will graduate high school at 19. At my high school years ago, there was only one, and he was considered weird. (Turns out he was a good dude.)

As for parent competitiveness, it seems to align with family income. So lacrosse > soccer > basketball = football. It doesn't spill over to the country club sports in the same way. There are more holdbacks for lacrosse followed by basketball. Soccer seems to have the opposite issue where young kids are competing to move up.

Happy to explain more if I'm not being clear. Didn't think you were argumentative at all.

Have the same experience. Graduated HS in 2006 and a kid was considered "old" if they were born in 1987 AT ALL. We only had one kid I can remember who was born in June of '87 and was thus 19 at graduation.

Now, my son is a rising first grader who won't turn 6 until late September. Most of the kids he plays sports with in his grade are already 7 and some have been for several months. It's a big change.

[KI Dock Bar]

As a life long educator, I always encourage parents who have summer birthday boys to consider holding them back from kindergarten because boys typically mature later than girls. They graduate HS at 18 and turn 19 that summer - absolutely nothing wrong with that. Why would you put your child at a disadvantage if they are not ready for school? This has nothing to do with athletics, this is an academic, educational decision. For some in the lower socio-economic class this is not as much of an option, because sending their child to school provides full time daycare, if you will. The issue I have is parents who for reasons other than academics, ie. athletics hold their child back after they complete 8th grade. Most of these are red-shirts/holdbacks that serve no purpose other than to provide their parents an avenue to improve their social standing within their peer group. Sad, sad, story.

[coda]

As the father of a kid who was young for his class and spent years playing summer/fall events against players who were 24+ months older, I am pretty biased against the current play-down/reclass racket.

This sounds like a step in the right direction, but the club lacrosse scene exists to please wealthy parents and college coaches ... and those folks will do just about anything to secure the meanest advantage for their desperately average progeny/team.

IMO, nothing will change until the college coaches are only permitted to recruit at age-based tournaments/showcases ... and we all know how miserable those guys are at self discipline ... *cough* early recruiting *cough* ...

I'm hopeful, but not optimistic, this this new initiative will drive real change.

It’s really this. It won’t change until recruiting changes. Youth is an asset in college football. Lot of that is the redshirt year and effects of college S&C on kids. Lax coaches don’t recruit like that. They are ultimate consumer, so they are going to decide this issue

[Hoxwurth]

It’s really this. It won’t change until recruiting changes. Youth is an asset in college football. Lot of that is the redshirt year and effects of college S&C on kids. Lax coaches don’t recruit like that. They are ultimate consumer, so they are going to decide this issue

Youth is an asset in soccer and basketball because the professional leagues value potential growth. In those sports, college coaches want draft validation. Today, lax coaches don't have that same pressure. Until they do, D1 talent should consider reclassing.

Which makes me wonder, have PG years fallen out of favor or am I just out of the loop?

[Laxxal22]

Youth is an asset in soccer and basketball because the professional leagues value potential growth. In those sports, college coaches want draft validation. Today, lax coaches don't have that same pressure. Until they do, D1 talent should consider reclassing.

Which makes me wonder, have PG years fallen out of favor or am I just out of the loop?

A few of the top public school players from Massachusetts are doing a PG year at West 1 schools before heading off to D1 programs, and I assume that's the case with most northeastern states, so it doesn't seem like PG schools are hurting to fill their slots. I think that for families of significant means they are going private/reclassing their boys after 7th-10th grade to get that advantage of an extra year earlier on in the process. A lot of seniors at non PG private schools with strong athletics are PG aged, and for kids with Sept/Oct birthdays double reclasses (or a reclass with a PG year at the end) can be on the table.

[oldbartman]

When do the "big" summer recruiting tournaments end? It seems there has been a lot of them in a relatively short time.

[justanotherperson]

When do the "big" summer recruiting tournaments end? It seems there has been a lot of them in a relatively short time.

NLF and NAL were back to back weeks with NAL just concluding. I dont think there are anymore "big" ones as we have entered the summer snooze period for lacrosse. Unless you count New Balance (under Armour) in maryland at the end of this week as a big tournament. Lake Placid is next week but seems more like a fun event rather than recruiting event

Showcase wise, Lacrosse Masters has one this week and then Elite 100 up at Endicott. There are a few prospect days as well through the beginning of August

[oldbartman]

When do the "big" summer recruiting tournaments end? It seems there has been a lot of them in a relatively short time.

NLF and NAL were back to back weeks with NAL just concluding. I dont think there are anymore "big" ones as we have entered the summer snooze period for lacrosse. Unless you count New Balance (under Armour) in maryland at the end of this week as a big tournament. Lake Placid is next week but seems more like a fun event rather than recruiting event

Showcase wise, Lacrosse Masters has one this week and then Elite 100 up at Endicott. There are a few prospect days as well through the beginning of August

Thanks JustAP. Though I have seen coaches up at the Lake Placid tournament watching the "youth" games on Monday & Tuesday. Some stay on and play later in the week. It's funny watching the coaches play doing all the things they tell their players not to do.

[Laxxal22]

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but this seems to have the most talk about "recruiting" of the active threads on here.

I listened to the Inside Lacrosse podcast this morning with Terry Foy talking Lars Tiffany about the recruiting process. He asked how many players they have on their list at the start of a recruiting cycle. Lars said it depended on where he's been but at Brown it was around 60 and at UVA it's only 25! From the nature of the conversation I'd guess that players towards the bottom of the UVA list don't get offers most years. Interesting insight into how competitive it is to get onto a perennial Final Four roster, and that's before you start competing for playing time.

[smoova]

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but this seems to have the most talk about "recruiting" of the active threads on here.

I listened to the Inside Lacrosse podcast this morning with Terry Foy talking Lars Tiffany about the recruiting process. He asked how many players they have on their list at the start of a recruiting cycle. Lars said it depended on where he's been but at Brown it was around 60 and at UVA it's only 25! From the nature of the conversation I'd guess that players towards the bottom of the UVA list don't get offers most years. Interesting insight into how competitive it is to get onto a perennial Final Four roster, and that's before you start competing for playing time.

When you're virtually assured that every offer will be accepted, you don't need a very long list.

[3rdPersonPlural]

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but this seems to have the most talk about "recruiting" of the active threads on here.

I listened to the Inside Lacrosse podcast this morning with Terry Foy talking Lars Tiffany about the recruiting process. He asked how many players they have on their list at the start of a recruiting cycle. Lars said it depended on where he's been but at Brown it was around 60 and at UVA it's only 25! From the nature of the conversation I'd guess that players towards the bottom of the UVA list don't get offers most years. Interesting insight into how competitive it is to get onto a perennial Final Four roster, and that's before you start competing for playing time.

When you're virtually assured that every offer will be accepted, you don't need a very long list.

I dunno....If I have an offer from Yale and Virginia and Duke, which do I pick?

[middleAgedBear]

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but this seems to have the most talk about "recruiting" of the active threads on here.

I listened to the Inside Lacrosse podcast this morning with Terry Foy talking Lars Tiffany about the recruiting process. He asked how many players they have on their list at the start of a recruiting cycle. Lars said it depended on where he's been but at Brown it was around 60 and at UVA it's only 25! From the nature of the conversation I'd guess that players towards the bottom of the UVA list don't get offers most years. Interesting insight into how competitive it is to get onto a perennial Final Four roster, and that's before you start competing for playing time.

I just listened to Andy Shay's podcast with Terry Foy. Some interesting takeaways...his staff looks at lots of youtube highlights, but the ads at the start of a 'certain sports highlight video company' are too long/doesn't have time to deal with those. Also, on his watchlist of 2026s (which they start sifting through in Nov 2023 once the madness of 2025s 9/1+ has settled), there are about 150 attack, 200 middies, and 150 d. I was surprised they track that many players, seems incredibly unwieldy. Also said kids (or parents) of 27s and 28s are emailing him. Advice to them - 'don't do that, enjoy your summer'