LaxPower Back-Up Stick

What does it mean to be patriotic?

We saw self-proclaimed "patriots" with American flags, Trump flags, Confederate flags, Blue Lives Matter flags altogether as they stormed the Capitol January 6. Same thing when they stormed the Michigan capital earlier...all claiming "patriotism" and calling for "1776"...

We now see the same people attacking the FBI...same people claiming a nefarious Deep State...arguing for "States rights"...

Are these people actually "patriots"?
Wrapping themselves in the flag...
I think not.

Indeed, IMO, the exact opposite of patriotic.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:00 pm What does it mean to be patriotic?

We saw self-proclaimed "patriots" with American flags, Trump flags, Confederate flags, Blue Lives Matter flags altogether as they stormed the Capitol January 6. Same thing when they stormed the Michigan capital earlier...all claiming "patriotism" and calling for "1776"...

We now see the same people attacking the FBI...same people claiming a nefarious Deep State...arguing for "States rights"...

Are these people actually "patriots"?
Wrapping themselves in the flag...
I think not.

Indeed, IMO, the exact opposite of patriotic.

Is it equally as unpatriotic for a group of people to march in the middle of the road shouting PIGS IN A BLANKET.. FRY EM LIKE BACON? Is it equally unpatriotic for the crowd watching the parade to cheer them on? Is it unpatriotic for a bunch of hooligans to surround a police car and dump buckets of water on them and humiliate the officers? Your outrage for what you consider unpatriotic sure is very selective. The sum total of all these embarrassing moments from both sides are a threat to our nation. Too bad your selective outrage is sooo well.. selective. BTW, what problem do you have with Blue Lives Matter??? You bothered by people who support the police and find it convenient to lump them in with all of the other hobgoblins that keep you up at night?? FTR in case you weren't paying attention, Americans have been critical of the FBI since they were led some guy named J Edgar Hoover. It ain't like it's some new fangled phenomenon. It is only recently that being anti FBI has become fashionable again.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:31 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:00 pm What does it mean to be patriotic?

We saw self-proclaimed "patriots" with American flags, Trump flags, Confederate flags, Blue Lives Matter flags altogether as they stormed the Capitol January 6. Same thing when they stormed the Michigan capital earlier...all claiming "patriotism" and calling for "1776"...

We now see the same people attacking the FBI...same people claiming a nefarious Deep State...arguing for "States rights"...

Are these people actually "patriots"?
Wrapping themselves in the flag...
I think not.

Indeed, IMO, the exact opposite of patriotic.

Is it equally as unpatriotic for a group of people to march in the middle of the road shouting PIGS IN A BLANKET.. FRY EM LIKE BACON? Is it equally unpatriotic for the crowd watching the parade to cheer them on? Is it unpatriotic for a bunch of hooligans to surround a police car and dump buckets of water on them and humiliate the officers? Your outrage for what you consider unpatriotic sure is very selective. The sum total of all these embarrassing moments from both sides are a threat to our nation. Too bad your selective outrage is sooo well.. selective. BTW, what problem do you have with Blue Lives Matter??? You bothered by people who support the police and find it convenient to lump them in with all of the other hobgoblins that keep you up at night?? FTR in case you weren't paying attention, Americans have been critical of the FBI since they were led some guy named J Edgar Hoover. It ain't like it's some new fangled phenomenon. It is only recently that being anti FBI has become fashionable again.

Small difference, cradle: the folks you described weren't wrapping themselves in American flags and claiming that they were "patriots".

I could make an argument that what they were protesting was a justified protest (unlike the Big Lie protests), but I certainly wouldn't say that the behaviors you describe are "patriotic".

But they didn't claim that.

As to "Blue Lives Matter", we've been over this...I'm certainly in agreement that police lives matter, and if all that was meant by those wanting to say so was that, I'd have no issue...but that's not what many of those folks mean...it was meant as blue lives matter more than black lives or that 'we don't want to hear about racist police violence'.

Same for "all lives matter"...of course they do, but waving that banner was just a way of saying that white lives matter more than black lives...or...that 'we don't want to hear about racism against blacks by police'...

So, back to my question, does waving the American flag necessarily mean you are a patriot?

does waving the American flag necessarily mean you are a patriot?

There's nothing even remotely patriotic about delusional right wingers such as those traitors who stormed the Capitol on January 6, attack Federal officials, refuse to pay their taxes, or who kiss up to traitor tRump. They trample on the Constitution, the ideals of freedom, democracy and equal justice for all. Flag waiving reichsters are nothing more than a hate filled cult whose chief desire is to destroy the USA under the guise of "patriotism".

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:47 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:31 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:00 pm What does it mean to be patriotic?

We saw self-proclaimed "patriots" with American flags, Trump flags, Confederate flags, Blue Lives Matter flags altogether as they stormed the Capitol January 6. Same thing when they stormed the Michigan capital earlier...all claiming "patriotism" and calling for "1776"...

We now see the same people attacking the FBI...same people claiming a nefarious Deep State...arguing for "States rights"...

Are these people actually "patriots"?
Wrapping themselves in the flag...
I think not.

Indeed, IMO, the exact opposite of patriotic.

Is it equally as unpatriotic for a group of people to march in the middle of the road shouting PIGS IN A BLANKET.. FRY EM LIKE BACON? Is it equally unpatriotic for the crowd watching the parade to cheer them on? Is it unpatriotic for a bunch of hooligans to surround a police car and dump buckets of water on them and humiliate the officers? Your outrage for what you consider unpatriotic sure is very selective. The sum total of all these embarrassing moments from both sides are a threat to our nation. Too bad your selective outrage is sooo well.. selective. BTW, what problem do you have with Blue Lives Matter??? You bothered by people who support the police and find it convenient to lump them in with all of the other hobgoblins that keep you up at night?? FTR in case you weren't paying attention, Americans have been critical of the FBI since they were led some guy named J Edgar Hoover. It ain't like it's some new fangled phenomenon. It is only recently that being anti FBI has become fashionable again.

Small difference, cradle: the folks you described weren't wrapping themselves in American flags and claiming that they were "patriots".

I could make an argument that what they were protesting was a justified protest (unlike the Big Lie protests), but I certainly wouldn't say that the behaviors you describe are "patriotic".

But they didn't claim that.

As to "Blue Lives Matter", we've been over this...I'm certainly in agreement that police lives matter, and if all that was meant by those wanting to say so was that, I'd have no issue...but that's not what many of those folks mean...it was meant as blue lives matter more than black lives or that 'we don't want to hear about racist police violence'.

Same for "all lives matter"...of course they do, but waving that banner was just a way of saying that white lives matter more than black lives...or...that 'we don't want to hear about racism against blacks by police'...

So, back to my question, does waving the American flag necessarily mean you are a patriot?

Your the guy who just lumped Blue Lives Matter people into your group of folks you differentiate. The folks screaming pigs in a blanket were no different than the folks who stormed the capital. Both groups are the very worst of what our freedom allows us. It doesn't matter if you wrap yourself in a flag or march down the road advocating killing police officers. Both groups represent the most vile, disgusting beliefs of people who claim to be patriots. You made a noble attempt to try and spin what you said. IMO your disdain towards one group is toned down by your acceptance of another. IMO if these groups of FRW nut jobs had marched to the capital steps and vented their anger they would be doing what any American has the right to do. It is when some of them decided to break down the doors that those people became traitors.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:31 pm Is it equally as unpatriotic for a group of people to march in the middle of the road shouting PIGS IN A BLANKET.. FRY EM LIKE BACON?

Citing grievances to those in power is the most patriotic thing an American can do, Cradle. Sans violence, of course. Our country was literally built on this principle.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:31 pm Americans have been critical of the FBI since they were led some guy named J Edgar Hoover. It ain't like it's some new fangled phenomenon. It is only recently that being anti FBI has become fashionable again.

What's new is that American conservatives are critical of law enforcement.

It was the Vietnam era libs who didn't trust the FBI.

From the time I purchased my first house in 1982 until about three years ago I flew an American flag on my home every day it didn’t rain. Every day my flag came down before dusk and every one of them has been properly disposed of. I cringe every time I pass a flag that’s wall mounted with its field on the right, i.e. wrong, side.

I now only fly the flag on national holidays or days of mourning. I can’t get past the sadness and anger that I feel that the patriotic act of flying our flag has been commandeered by MAGATs and all they stand for. I no longer fly the flag on an “average” day because I don’t want to give others who feel as I do the idea that I may be a MAGAT.

SCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:00 pm From the time I purchased my first house in 1982 until about three years ago I flew an American flag on my home every day it didn’t rain. Every day my flag came down before dusk and every one of them has been properly disposed of. I cringe every time I pass a flag that’s wall mounted with its field on the right, i.e. wrong, side.

I now only fly the flag on national holidays or days of mourning. I can’t get past the sadness and anger that I feel that the patriotic act of flying our flag has been commandeered by MAGATs. I no longer fly the flag on an “average” day because I don’t want to give others who feel as I do the idea that I may be a MAGAT.

What''s weird is that if you ask the MAGA crowd, they hate the Federal Government. So why fly the flag that represents said government?

Why not your State flag?

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:31 pm
Is it equally as unpatriotic for a group of people to march in the middle of the road shouting PIGS IN A BLANKET.. FRY EM LIKE BACON?

tRump and his ilk applauded the use of the death penalty on the Central Park Five though they were innocent. To this day they have never taken it back.

a fan

What's new is that American conservatives are critical of law enforcement.

It was the Vietnam era libs who didn't trust the FBI.

During Vietnam era the FBI employed COINTELPRO to disrupt peaceful protests and to smear anyone who dared challenge the legality of the treasonous war on Vietnam. Today FBI is not using that part to smear anyone or to disrupt peaceful protests. Unlike back then, today they are merely doing their job the right way for once. That's what upset the treasonous right wing America haters.

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:02 pm What''s weird is that if you ask the MAGA crowd, they hate the Federal Government. So why fly the flag that represents said government?

Whiplash alert :
First you say it's patriotic to protest against the Federal Government
then you question the patriotism of protesters who fly the US flag.

The fact that you think the US flag represents only the Federal government shines through in your opinions & perspective,
...while you try to inflict your whacked out state's laws on the rest of the United States.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:31 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:02 pm What''s weird is that if you ask the MAGA crowd, they hate the Federal Government. So why fly the flag that represents said government?

Whiplash alert :
First you say it's patriotic to protest against the Federal Government
then you question the patriotism of protesters who fly the US flag.

Who's putting words into who's mouth now?

Didn't say it was unpatriotic to fly the flag.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:31 pm The fact that you think the US flag represents only the Federal government shines through in your opinions & perspective,

Yes. It does. Because thats what it is. Literally. It's the flag of the United States of America...the Federal Government. Codified in our Federal Laws. Codified in our US Constitution.

What do YOU think it represents? And please, by all means, make flowery poetic stuff up.

I can't put the US flag on my spirits bottles. Did you know that? Can you guess as to why?

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:31 pm ...while you try to inflict your whacked out state's laws on the rest of the United States.

I can't even guess as to what the heck you're complaining about here.

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:38 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:31 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:02 pm What''s weird is that if you ask the MAGA crowd, they hate the Federal Government. So why fly the flag that represents said government?

Whiplash alert :
First you say it's patriotic to protest against the Federal Government
then you question the patriotism of protesters who fly the US flag.

Who's putting words into who's mouth now?

Didn't say it was unpatriotic to fly the flag.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:31 pm The fact that you think the US flag represents only the Federal government shines through in your opinions & perspective,

Yes. It does. Because thats what it is. Literally. It's the flag of the United States of America...the Federal Government. Codified in our Federal Laws. Codified in our US Constitution.

What do YOU think it represents? And please, by all means, make flowery poetic stuff up.

I can't put the US flag on my spirits bottles. Did you know that? Can you guess as to why?

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:31 pm ...while you try to inflict your whacked out state's laws on the rest of the United States.

I can't even guess as to what the heck you're complaining about here.

Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:45 pm Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?

Nope. In America? We wear what we want. It's the 1st amendment for a reason.

Stand for the flag on the national anthem, as I do? Patriotic.

Don't stand for the flag and the national anthem because you're unhappy with our government? Patriotic.

You didn't answer my question: what does the US Flag Represent?

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:45 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:38 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:31 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:02 pm What''s weird is that if you ask the MAGA crowd, they hate the Federal Government. So why fly the flag that represents said government?

Whiplash alert :
First you say it's patriotic to protest against the Federal Government
then you question the patriotism of protesters who fly the US flag.

Who's putting words into who's mouth now?

Didn't say it was unpatriotic to fly the flag.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:31 pm The fact that you think the US flag represents only the Federal government shines through in your opinions & perspective,

Yes. It does. Because thats what it is. Literally. It's the flag of the United States of America...the Federal Government. Codified in our Federal Laws. Codified in our US Constitution.

What do YOU think it represents? And please, by all means, make flowery poetic stuff up.

I can't put the US flag on my spirits bottles. Did you know that? Can you guess as to why?

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:31 pm ...while you try to inflict your whacked out state's laws on the rest of the United States.

I can't even guess as to what the heck you're complaining about here.

Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?

I’ll answer that. In 2016 when that gear first entered the scene, no. Now that it has become the symbol to allegiance/idolatry of a person who wants to be king, yes.

Edit to add - in deference to afan’s response that I didn’t see before posting this, my position is that wearing MAGA c-rap while legal and for which people are entitled to, is unpatriotic.

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:51 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:45 pm Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?

Nope. In America? We wear what we want. It's the 1st amendment for a reason.

Stand for the flag on the national anthem, as I do? Patriotic.

Don't stand for the flag and the national anthem because you're unhappy with our government? Patriotic.

You didn't answer my question: what does the US Flag Represent?

It represents many things to different people.
When I see it, I think of all those who sacrificed & gave their lives in service to it.
That's who I think about when standing for the national anthem,
so I guess that's what it represents to me.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:59 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:51 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:45 pm Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?

Nope. In America? We wear what we want. It's the 1st amendment for a reason.

Stand for the flag on the national anthem, as I do? Patriotic.

Don't stand for the flag and the national anthem because you're unhappy with our government? Patriotic.

You didn't answer my question: what does the US Flag Represent?

It represents many things to different people.
When I see it, I think of all those who sacrificed & gave their lives in service to it.
That's who I think about when standing for the national anthem,
so I guess that's what it represents to me.

And that's cool! The problem, as you likely know....is that people are projecting as to what it means to them, and then holding every other American accountable to their personal view of what the flag represents. Which is absurd, of course. You don't get to tell someone else what the flag means to you. Part of the deal, my man.

Therefore, some get offended because they think the US Flag represents our troops...and those that have died protecting American interests.....and they think of that when someone doesn't stand for the flag and the national anthem. Those who kneel for the anthem aren't doing it to disrespect our troops...and if anyone bothered to ask those kneeling, they'd tell you that on the spot. But folks that are offended by kneeling like to pretend that they don't know that...and get offended.

Others, as SCLax points out, can think all sorts of negative things about the flag. And get offended when someone else flys the flag. They, too, are wrong.

The point? Don't assume that your understanding of what the flag means is the same for everyone else.....cause it's likely not.

As for me, as I said---it's literally the symbol of the Federal Government. And I love our government. I voted for my representatives for over 30 years now. I love the Constitution. I actually love Washington DC, and all its glory, mistakes, imperfections, selfishness, hypocrisy and corruption. There's a mess of things we need to fix, yep. And what those things are are different for all of us.

And I love that I can tell my Federal government to F right off, because I despise some that they have done...without consequence !!!

Man, we really need some fall ball or something.

Might want to check out the student athletes on the SEC Network.
Florida v Stanford w-volleyball.
Damn.

DMac wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:31 pm Man, we really need some fall ball or something.

I actually think we're getting somewhere here, to be honest.

But yeah----lacrosse please!

DMac wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:31 pm Man, we really need some fall ball or something.

Might want to check out the student athletes on the SEC Network.
Florida v Stanford w-volleyball.
Damn.

Had a feeling my question would strike a nerve or two.

Meet the Stanford student athlete, Sami, 6' 6" and good. Geezuz H!!!