LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Just takes one good moron with a gun…

The social fabric is fraying —-rapidly.

“The parents were arrested, along with one other, as they tried to get to their children to protect them, authorities said. Officers in the Phoenix suburb of El Mirage used a Taser stun gun to stop two of them as they tried to help a man whose own handgun fell to the ground while he was being taken into custody.”

Our system of law and order is cooperative. Once the spirit if cooperation is lost, things get ugly.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... own-school

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:51 am Just takes one good moron with a gun…

The social fabric is fraying —-rapidly.

“The parents were arrested, along with one other, as they tried to get to their children to protect them, authorities said. Officers in the Phoenix suburb of El Mirage used a Taser stun gun to stop two of them as they tried to help a man whose own handgun fell to the ground while he was being taken into custody.”

Our system of law and order is cooperative. Once the spirit if cooperation is lost, things get ugly.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... own-school

Wait until a parent gets shot with an AR in NC or soem other state their proposing to have those guns in schools.

Peaceful assembly? A “confederacy of dunces”?


“Armed supporters of former President Donald Trump protested outside the FBI office in Phoenix, Arizona, on Saturday, Fox 10 Phoenix reported.

The protest, which took place in the morning, follows the agency's raid of Trump's Mar-a-Lago property on Monday.

Outside the FBI office, CNN reported that Trump supporters were carrying handguns and "assault-style weapons." One protester said they were there to protest the "unlawful search" at the Florida property.

Fox 10 Phoenix reported that one person waved a Confederate flag and others held "honor your oath" and "Abolish FBI" signs.”

https://www.businessinsider.com/mar-a-l ... 2022-8?amp

This is all playing right into Bannon's game plan.

DoJ will need to show that there were real national security risks & a legit concern that compromise of the classified matl that was seized would do future grave damage. Was TS/SCI info compromised ? They need to prove conclusively that this was more than Trump's arrogance & carelessness, or this ends for Trump, just as it did for HRC.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:26 am This is all playing right into Bannon's game plan.

DoJ will need to show that there were real national security risks & a legit concern that compromise of the classified matl that was seized would do future grave damage. Was TS/SCI info compromised ? They need to prove conclusively that this was more than Trump's arrogance & carelessness, or this ends for Trump, just as it did for HRC.

As predicted, the bar just got moved (again)...did Trump actually give, sell, the documents to a foreign adversary?

Prove the TS/SCI sources and methods info was actually compromised, else he wins, Bannon wins...Civil War justified...

Come on Salty, it doesn't matter whether Trump's reason to commit criminal acts were his "arrogance & carelessness" (and rampant dishonesty of course), they are criminal acts. Taking the materials might initially be "excused" by arrogance and carelessness, but the refusal to immediately return them is not excusable by any such measure...and the lying about it and fomenting violence, yet again, makes him a clear and present danger to the USA...period, full stop.

I'm going to assume that you don't want that civil war...how in the world can the the DOJ/FBI reveal the contents of TS/SCI info, "prove conclusively", without compromising sources and methods? Who is trusted by Trump cultists and white nationalists to review these materials properly and come out and say 'yup, they are TS/SCI"??? Who is trusted in this world in which people actually buy into the cult?

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:30 pm Outside the FBI office, CNN reported that Trump supporters were carrying handguns and "assault-style weapons." One protester said they were there to protest the "unlawful search" at the Florida property.

Fox 10 Phoenix reported that one person waved a Confederate flag and others held "honor your oath" and "Abolish FBI" signs.”

Ask these geniuses if it was ok for the FBI to pull warrants on Hillary and her server and emails.

We all know what they'd say. "Oh, yeah. That's TOTALLY fine for the FBI to do that. They were just doing their jobs!"

And the revelations that came from these FBI warrants cost Hillary the election. And rightly so. Don't do stupid sh*t, is the moral there.

Did these idiots complain about the FBI "going after Hillary"? F no. They chanted "lock her up".



I'm sick of mollycoddling these mouthbreathing idiots, where reason is just gone. Completely gone. If you don't want to be called a moron? Pretty simple: don't act like one.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:34 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:26 am This is all playing right into Bannon's game plan.

DoJ will need to show that there were real national security risks & a legit concern that compromise of the classified matl that was seized would do future grave damage. Was TS/SCI info compromised ? They need to prove conclusively that this was more than Trump's arrogance & carelessness, or this ends for Trump, just as it did for HRC.

As predicted, the bar just got moved (again)...did Trump actually give, sell, the documents to a foreign adversary?

Prove the TS/SCI sources and methods info was actually compromised, else he wins, Bannon wins...Civil War justified...

Come on Salty, it doesn't matter whether Trump's reason to commit criminal acts were his "arrogance & carelessness" (and rampant dishonesty of course), they are criminal acts. Taking the materials might initially be "excused" by arrogance and carelessness, but the refusal to immediately return them is not excusable by any such measure...and the lying about it and fomenting violence, yet again, makes him a clear and present danger to the USA...period, full stop.

I'm going to assume that you don't want that civil war...how in the world can the the DOJ/FBI reveal the contents of TS/SCI info, "prove conclusively", without compromising sources and methods? Who is trusted by Trump cultists and white nationalists to review these materials properly and come out and say 'yup, they are TS/SCI"??? Who is trusted in this world in which people actually buy into the cult?

Moving the bar ? The title of this thread is "Reap the Whirlwind".
I'm telling you what it will take to prevent the growing whirlwind.
The Congressional Gang of 8 exists for situations just like this.
Schiff is making accusations that could only be valid if he's been read in.
Fellow G-of-8 members Rubio & Turner are clamoring for info.
The DoJ can't raid a former President & future candidate's residence, then just let these accusations to hang in the air, without releasing evidence that justifies the raid, or violence is more likely to ensue.
A lot more non-specific info can be released without compromising TS/SCI matl.
That's being used as an excuse to allow all sorts of sinister accusations to be conjured up, which will fire up the crazies on both sides..

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:22 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:34 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:26 am This is all playing right into Bannon's game plan.

DoJ will need to show that there were real national security risks & a legit concern that compromise of the classified matl that was seized would do future grave damage. Was TS/SCI info compromised ? They need to prove conclusively that this was more than Trump's arrogance & carelessness, or this ends for Trump, just as it did for HRC.

As predicted, the bar just got moved (again)...did Trump actually give, sell, the documents to a foreign adversary?

Prove the TS/SCI sources and methods info was actually compromised, else he wins, Bannon wins...Civil War justified...

Come on Salty, it doesn't matter whether Trump's reason to commit criminal acts were his "arrogance & carelessness" (and rampant dishonesty of course), they are criminal acts. Taking the materials might initially be "excused" by arrogance and carelessness, but the refusal to immediately return them is not excusable by any such measure...and the lying about it and fomenting violence, yet again, makes him a clear and present danger to the USA...period, full stop.

I'm going to assume that you don't want that civil war...how in the world can the the DOJ/FBI reveal the contents of TS/SCI info, "prove conclusively", without compromising sources and methods? Who is trusted by Trump cultists and white nationalists to review these materials properly and come out and say 'yup, they are TS/SCI"??? Who is trusted in this world in which people actually buy into the cult?

Moving the bar ? The title of this thread is "Reap the Whirlwind".
I'm telling you what it will take to prevent the growing whirlwind.
The Congressional Gang of 8 exists for situations just like this.
Schiff is making accusations that could only be valid if he's been read in.
Fellow G-of-8 members Rubio & Turner are clamoring for info.
The DoJ can't raid a former President & future candidate's residence, then just let these accusations to hang in the air, without releasing evidence that justifies the raid, or violence is more likely to ensue.
A lot more non-specific info can be released without compromising TS/SCI matl.
That's being used as an excuse to allow all sorts of sinister accusations to be conjured up, which will fire up the crazies on both sides..

We already know enough to know that Trump violated federal law with respect to the scores of boxes of documents removed from his property. Were he not a former president, the decision to indict would be clear and simple (yes, indict).

But there is a lot of prosecutorial discretion here, and it is unprecedented to indict a former president. The prosecutorial calculus is not so straightforward, although it should be in an ideal world.

DocBarrister

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:30 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:22 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:34 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:26 am This is all playing right into Bannon's game plan.

DoJ will need to show that there were real national security risks & a legit concern that compromise of the classified matl that was seized would do future grave damage. Was TS/SCI info compromised ? They need to prove conclusively that this was more than Trump's arrogance & carelessness, or this ends for Trump, just as it did for HRC.

As predicted, the bar just got moved (again)...did Trump actually give, sell, the documents to a foreign adversary?

Prove the TS/SCI sources and methods info was actually compromised, else he wins, Bannon wins...Civil War justified...

Come on Salty, it doesn't matter whether Trump's reason to commit criminal acts were his "arrogance & carelessness" (and rampant dishonesty of course), they are criminal acts. Taking the materials might initially be "excused" by arrogance and carelessness, but the refusal to immediately return them is not excusable by any such measure...and the lying about it and fomenting violence, yet again, makes him a clear and present danger to the USA...period, full stop.

I'm going to assume that you don't want that civil war...how in the world can the the DOJ/FBI reveal the contents of TS/SCI info, "prove conclusively", without compromising sources and methods? Who is trusted by Trump cultists and white nationalists to review these materials properly and come out and say 'yup, they are TS/SCI"??? Who is trusted in this world in which people actually buy into the cult?

Moving the bar ? The title of this thread is "Reap the Whirlwind".
I'm telling you what it will take to prevent the growing whirlwind.
The Congressional Gang of 8 exists for situations just like this.
Schiff is making accusations that could only be valid if he's been read in.
Fellow G-of-8 members Rubio & Turner are clamoring for info.
The DoJ can't raid a former President & future candidate's residence, then just let these accusations to hang in the air, without releasing evidence that justifies the raid, or violence is more likely to ensue.
A lot more non-specific info can be released without compromising TS/SCI matl.
That's being used as an excuse to allow all sorts of sinister accusations to be conjured up, which will fire up the crazies on both sides..

We already know enough to know that Trump violated federal law with respect to the scores of boxes of documents removed from his property. Were he not a former president, the decision to indict would be clear and simple (yes, indict).

But there is a lot of prosecutorial discretion here, and it is unprecedented to indict a former president. The prosecutorial calculus is not so straightforward, although it should be in an ideal world.

DocBarrister

Oh really ? You know enough to indict who -- a ham sandwich or a former President & future candidate.
...who has millions of fired up, angry supporters who already see him as a martyr.

“Future Candidate”? Don’t mean doodlie squat, Old Soviet. Is not and SHOULD NOT be an issue in this type of RICO prosecution. You think the news is bad now, your head hasn’t really begun to spin yet, comrade. Stay closely tuned.

..

dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:03 pm “Future Candidate”? Don’t mean doodlie squat, Old Soviet. Is not and SHOULD NOT be an issue in this type of RICO prosecution. You think the news is bad now, your head hasn’t really begun to spin yet, comrade. Stay closely tuned.

It means everything. Otherwise, it'd be just another Sandy nothingBerger, Petraeus wheel book review with his biographer/mistress, Deutch's home computer document dump, or Clinton's yoga email mixup.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:11 pm

dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:03 pm “Future Candidate”? Don’t mean doodlie squat, Old Soviet. Is not and SHOULD NOT be an issue in this type of RICO prosecution. You think the news is bad now, your head hasn’t really begun to spin yet, comrade. Stay closely tuned.

It means everything. Otherwise, it'd be just another Sandy nothingBerger, Petraeus wheel book review with his biographer/mistress, Deutch's home computer document dump, or Clinton's yoga email mixup.

Actually? I agree with Old Salt here. If Trump is running for President next year? The Feds have to leave him alone UNLESS it's the easiest prosecution the world has ever seen. And I'm pretty sure it's not said layup.

Because if you don't get that conviction? That's a serious problem for our democracy.

Trump knows this, of course.

Same reason Comey didn't go after Hillary during an election campaign. Comey was right to do that. And Hillary paid the price for her games.....so in the end, Justice prevailed, and Hillary is gone.

I'll be stunned if the DoJ presses charges. Get the documents back, and move on.

a fan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:23 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:11 pm

dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:03 pm “Future Candidate”? Don’t mean doodlie squat, Old Soviet. Is not and SHOULD NOT be an issue in this type of RICO prosecution. You think the news is bad now, your head hasn’t really begun to spin yet, comrade. Stay closely tuned.

It means everything. Otherwise, it'd be just another Sandy nothingBerger, Petraeus wheel book review with his biographer/mistress, Deutch's home computer document dump, or Clinton's yoga email mixup.

Actually? I agree with Old Salt here. If Trump is running for President next year? The Feds have to leave him alone UNLESS it's the easiest prosecution the world has ever seen. And I'm pretty sure it's not said layup.

Because if you don't get that conviction? That's a serious problem for our democracy.

Trump knows this, of course.

Same reason Comey didn't go after Hillary during an election campaign. Comey was right to do that. And Hillary paid the price for her games.....so in the end, Justice prevailed, and Hillary is gone.

I'll be stunned if the DoJ presses charges. Get the documents back, and move on.

+1, very well stated. I'm surprised they seized his passport. That is unusual seeing he has not been charged with any crime.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:19 am

a fan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:23 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:11 pm

dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:03 pm “Future Candidate”? Don’t mean doodlie squat, Old Soviet. Is not and SHOULD NOT be an issue in this type of RICO prosecution. You think the news is bad now, your head hasn’t really begun to spin yet, comrade. Stay closely tuned.

It means everything. Otherwise, it'd be just another Sandy nothingBerger, Petraeus wheel book review with his biographer/mistress, Deutch's home computer document dump, or Clinton's yoga email mixup.

Actually? I agree with Old Salt here. If Trump is running for President next year? The Feds have to leave him alone UNLESS it's the easiest prosecution the world has ever seen. And I'm pretty sure it's not said layup.

Because if you don't get that conviction? That's a serious problem for our democracy.

Trump knows this, of course.

Same reason Comey didn't go after Hillary during an election campaign. Comey was right to do that. And Hillary paid the price for her games.....so in the end, Justice prevailed, and Hillary is gone.

I'll be stunned if the DoJ presses charges. Get the documents back, and move on.

+1, very well stated. I'm surprised they seized his passport. That is unusual seeing he has not been charged with any crime.

Not unusual at all. His passports were taken, filtered by FBI agents (as not necessary to the scope of the investigation), and returned to him. Naturally, Trump forgot to tell the world about the return of the passports, which, in any event, remain government property throughout their effective life.

a fan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:23 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:11 pm

dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:03 pm “Future Candidate”? Don’t mean doodlie squat, Old Soviet. Is not and SHOULD NOT be an issue in this type of RICO prosecution. You think the news is bad now, your head hasn’t really begun to spin yet, comrade. Stay closely tuned.

It means everything. Otherwise, it'd be just another Sandy nothingBerger, Petraeus wheel book review with his biographer/mistress, Deutch's home computer document dump, or Clinton's yoga email mixup.

Actually? I agree with Old Salt here. If Trump is running for President next year? The Feds have to leave him alone UNLESS it's the easiest prosecution the world has ever seen. And I'm pretty sure it's not said layup.

Because if you don't get that conviction? That's a serious problem for our democracy.

Trump knows this, of course.

Same reason Comey didn't go after Hillary during an election campaign. Comey was right to do that. And Hillary paid the price for her games.....so in the end, Justice prevailed, and Hillary is gone.

I'll be stunned if the DoJ presses charges. Get the documents back, and move on.

Today's filing to keep the affadavit sealed suggests possible connections with the former DOPUS and all of the other investigations going on hard to totally rule out a connection with other cases they are working on.

They returned his passports apparently before he squawked. Wouldn't surprise me if that's how he found out they took them. Two were expired. BTW passports are the property of the US Government and not the holder. They also appear to have an independent team of investigators looking through everything to determine if there are any other documents that are not directly related to the initial search including any attorney/client privileged materials, if any.


Turns out FBI interviewed Top White House Lawyers About Missing Trump Documents back in the spring. Pat Cipollone and Patrick Philbin are the most senior people who worked for Mr. Trump who are known to have been interviewed in the investigation into the former president’s handling of classified material.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/16/us/p ... s-fbi.html

Do have to love all of the double standards now being invoked as opposed to what was espoused in the past when the targets were different.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:22 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:34 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:26 am This is all playing right into Bannon's game plan.

DoJ will need to show that there were real national security risks & a legit concern that compromise of the classified matl that was seized would do future grave damage. Was TS/SCI info compromised ? They need to prove conclusively that this was more than Trump's arrogance & carelessness, or this ends for Trump, just as it did for HRC.

As predicted, the bar just got moved (again)...did Trump actually give, sell, the documents to a foreign adversary?

Prove the TS/SCI sources and methods info was actually compromised, else he wins, Bannon wins...Civil War justified...

Come on Salty, it doesn't matter whether Trump's reason to commit criminal acts were his "arrogance & carelessness" (and rampant dishonesty of course), they are criminal acts. Taking the materials might initially be "excused" by arrogance and carelessness, but the refusal to immediately return them is not excusable by any such measure...and the lying about it and fomenting violence, yet again, makes him a clear and present danger to the USA...period, full stop.

I'm going to assume that you don't want that civil war...how in the world can the the DOJ/FBI reveal the contents of TS/SCI info, "prove conclusively", without compromising sources and methods? Who is trusted by Trump cultists and white nationalists to review these materials properly and come out and say 'yup, they are TS/SCI"??? Who is trusted in this world in which people actually buy into the cult?

Moving the bar ? The title of this thread is "Reap the Whirlwind".
I'm telling you what it will take to prevent the growing whirlwind.
The Congressional Gang of 8 exists for situations just like this.
Schiff is making accusations that could only be valid if he's been read in.
Fellow G-of-8 members Rubio & Turner are clamoring for info.
The DoJ can't raid a former President & future candidate's residence, then just let these accusations to hang in the air, without releasing evidence that justifies the raid, or violence is more likely to ensue.
A lot more non-specific info can be released without compromising TS/SCI matl.
That's being used as an excuse to allow all sorts of sinister accusations to be conjured up, which will fire up the crazies on both sides..

1. The first bolded part is just dumb. They can and did. And it was under legal authority and you can be convicted of a crime for hubris. That’s what the entire DUI industry is built on.
2. The second bolded is what the Reps do every single day. The part not bolded is the equivalent of “the very fine people on both sides” in Charlottesville. Seriously anyone as concerned about a bunch of effete liberal doing damage and hurting me vs. Oath Keepra and Proud Boys is out to lunch. Or been watching the training scene for Will Smith early in Men in Black where he shoots the schoolgirl with books instead of the predators.

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:30 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:22 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:34 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:26 am This is all playing right into Bannon's game plan.

DoJ will need to show that there were real national security risks & a legit concern that compromise of the classified matl that was seized would do future grave damage. Was TS/SCI info compromised ? They need to prove conclusively that this was more than Trump's arrogance & carelessness, or this ends for Trump, just as it did for HRC.

As predicted, the bar just got moved (again)...did Trump actually give, sell, the documents to a foreign adversary?

Prove the TS/SCI sources and methods info was actually compromised, else he wins, Bannon wins...Civil War justified...

Come on Salty, it doesn't matter whether Trump's reason to commit criminal acts were his "arrogance & carelessness" (and rampant dishonesty of course), they are criminal acts. Taking the materials might initially be "excused" by arrogance and carelessness, but the refusal to immediately return them is not excusable by any such measure...and the lying about it and fomenting violence, yet again, makes him a clear and present danger to the USA...period, full stop.

I'm going to assume that you don't want that civil war...how in the world can the the DOJ/FBI reveal the contents of TS/SCI info, "prove conclusively", without compromising sources and methods? Who is trusted by Trump cultists and white nationalists to review these materials properly and come out and say 'yup, they are TS/SCI"??? Who is trusted in this world in which people actually buy into the cult?

Moving the bar ? The title of this thread is "Reap the Whirlwind".
I'm telling you what it will take to prevent the growing whirlwind.
The Congressional Gang of 8 exists for situations just like this.
Schiff is making accusations that could only be valid if he's been read in.
Fellow G-of-8 members Rubio & Turner are clamoring for info.
The DoJ can't raid a former President & future candidate's residence, then just let these accusations to hang in the air, without releasing evidence that justifies the raid, or violence is more likely to ensue.
A lot more non-specific info can be released without compromising TS/SCI matl.
That's being used as an excuse to allow all sorts of sinister accusations to be conjured up, which will fire up the crazies on both sides..

We already know enough to know that Trump violated federal law with respect to the scores of boxes of documents removed from his property. Were he not a former president, the decision to indict would be clear and simple (yes, indict).

But there is a lot of prosecutorial discretion here, and it is unprecedented to indict a former president. The prosecutorial calculus is not so straightforward, although it should be in an ideal world.

DocBarrister

The conflation of prosecution and let enforcement around here is massive. I’ve probably made that mistake or at least not clarified the difference since a comment at some point. It’s also used as a weapon by combining the two in order to create conspiracies where none exist.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:48 pm

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:30 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:22 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:34 am

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:26 am This is all playing right into Bannon's game plan.

DoJ will need to show that there were real national security risks & a legit concern that compromise of the classified matl that was seized would do future grave damage. Was TS/SCI info compromised ? They need to prove conclusively that this was more than Trump's arrogance & carelessness, or this ends for Trump, just as it did for HRC.

As predicted, the bar just got moved (again)...did Trump actually give, sell, the documents to a foreign adversary?

Prove the TS/SCI sources and methods info was actually compromised, else he wins, Bannon wins...Civil War justified...

Come on Salty, it doesn't matter whether Trump's reason to commit criminal acts were his "arrogance & carelessness" (and rampant dishonesty of course), they are criminal acts. Taking the materials might initially be "excused" by arrogance and carelessness, but the refusal to immediately return them is not excusable by any such measure...and the lying about it and fomenting violence, yet again, makes him a clear and present danger to the USA...period, full stop.

I'm going to assume that you don't want that civil war...how in the world can the the DOJ/FBI reveal the contents of TS/SCI info, "prove conclusively", without compromising sources and methods? Who is trusted by Trump cultists and white nationalists to review these materials properly and come out and say 'yup, they are TS/SCI"??? Who is trusted in this world in which people actually buy into the cult?

Moving the bar ? The title of this thread is "Reap the Whirlwind".
I'm telling you what it will take to prevent the growing whirlwind.
The Congressional Gang of 8 exists for situations just like this.
Schiff is making accusations that could only be valid if he's been read in.
Fellow G-of-8 members Rubio & Turner are clamoring for info.
The DoJ can't raid a former President & future candidate's residence, then just let these accusations to hang in the air, without releasing evidence that justifies the raid, or violence is more likely to ensue.
A lot more non-specific info can be released without compromising TS/SCI matl.
That's being used as an excuse to allow all sorts of sinister accusations to be conjured up, which will fire up the crazies on both sides..

We already know enough to know that Trump violated federal law with respect to the scores of boxes of documents removed from his property. Were he not a former president, the decision to indict would be clear and simple (yes, indict).

But there is a lot of prosecutorial discretion here, and it is unprecedented to indict a former president. The prosecutorial calculus is not so straightforward, although it should be in an ideal world.

DocBarrister

Oh really ? You know enough to indict who -- a ham sandwich or a former President & future candidate.
...who has millions of fired up, angry supporters who already see him as a martyr.

I’m a potential future candidate for president. Free for all!!

a fan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:23 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:11 pm

dislaxxic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:03 pm “Future Candidate”? Don’t mean doodlie squat, Old Soviet. Is not and SHOULD NOT be an issue in this type of RICO prosecution. You think the news is bad now, your head hasn’t really begun to spin yet, comrade. Stay closely tuned.

It means everything. Otherwise, it'd be just another Sandy nothingBerger, Petraeus wheel book review with his biographer/mistress, Deutch's home computer document dump, or Clinton's yoga email mixup.

Actually? I agree with Old Salt here. If Trump is running for President next year? The Feds have to leave him alone UNLESS it's the easiest prosecution the world has ever seen. And I'm pretty sure it's not said layup.

Because if you don't get that conviction? That's a serious problem for our democracy.

Trump knows this, of course.

Same reason Comey didn't go after Hillary during an election campaign. Comey was right to do that. And Hillary paid the price for her games.....so in the end, Justice prevailed, and Hillary is gone.

I'll be stunned if the DoJ presses charges. Get the documents back, and move on.

He created the situation. Another way to destroy our prominence in the world. Dope.

Ok, I disagree with most of the above.

It looks to me like they are going to indict, and it will indeed be slam dunk.
(on the evidence, not necessarily the jury, but likely overwhelming evidence)

They made clear why they're not releasing the affidavit because this is an ongoing investigation, so this was not just about retrieving these documents.

The only thing I'm wondering about (in terms of timing of indictment) is whether that ongoing investigation involves even more nefarious activities than the violations expressed in the warrant (these are slam dunk provable). But it's entirely possible that they already have strong basis to believe that Trump actually revealed classified information to others...if so, that's a much bigger case.

I don't think Trump's various claims/defenses (ie they were de-classified) are remotely going to worry the prosecutors.

Nor do I think they are going to be intimidated into not indicting by the threats of violence, indeed that may be all the more reason to follow through on the clearly provable crimes. Failing to indict is the loss of democracy and the rule of law...it would be a capitulation to the fascism threat.