Where have all the Hotbeds gone?

[3rdPersonPlural]

My, how things have changed since I started re-engaging in lacrosse by participating in the departed predecessor site.

Back then, the hotbeds whose graduates dominated the DI college rosters were MIAA, Long Island, and Upstate (and Central) New York, with growing representation from the Philly mainline and DMV and and SW CT. College players from beyond these regions were regarded as athletic freaks who had persevered through dismal competition and team-dad coaching to earn a spot with a competitive college team. Welcome to the sidelines, usually.

I just looked at the Inside Lacrosse HS rankings ( https://www.insidelacrosse.com/recruit ... ational/22 ) -- edit, this is apparently an out-of-date ranking -- and was surprised to see that the top LI High School team (Saint Ants) was ranked at #11. The top MIAA team is #4. I also noticed that ALL teams in the top 25 are private schools, but that’s a different thread. Where’s Manhasset and Garden City and Victor and Yorktown? Where’s Darien and Conestoga and Nisky all those other lacrosse factories that were fixtures in the top 25 for a couple of decades?

So then I looked at DI NCAA scoring (https://www.insidelacrosse.com/league/di/polls/2022, because certainly this list will still be dominated by players from the legacy hotbeds and (of course) Canada. Right?

Top of the ranking charts is U of Maryland. Probably a slew of local boys scoring all those points, right? There’s 1 kid from MD and a kids from Canada (of course) in their top 8 scorers, but the rest are from GA, CA, VA, MA, and NJ.

OK, let’s look at ‘cuse. Their reputation is showcasing Upstate and Canada, with ringers from Long Island and MD. Lo and behold, there is NO Canada in their top scorers and one MD kid (a legacy) in their leaderboard. OR and TX and FL in their top 4. No Long Island talent.

Georgetown has stormed to #2. Their top scorer is from Missouri. Oof!

Virginia has one MD kid in their top 8 (and, of course, a Canadian) but no New Yorkers.

Notre Dame is 'full of Chaminade kids', as Quint Kessenich remarked. Yup. The Kavanaugh brothers are the top 2 scorers, but the rest of the top 8 only includes a freshman from MD as far as hotbeds go. The kid from Malvern PA can be considered a product of a legacy emerging hotbed, if you wish.

Army actually fits my preconceptions. 4 of their top 5 scorers and 5 of their top 8 are from recognized lacrosse factories. So, let’s look at Navy, another region-agnostic team(?): Aw, heck, their top scorer is from Dallas. Really?

Duke is known as a school that finds and features the best. OK, their top scorer is a kid from LI who’s been a legend since middle school, and a Canadian, But their top scorer from the midfield is from....Texas?

The good news is that 'grow the game' has worked. I don't see any bad news, here. Lacrosse at the top level has gotten faster on foot, quicker and more precise in passing, and the schemes are more complex. The rope units are impenetrable unless they make a mistake. There are 20 great goalies instead of 1 or 2 each year getting recruited. It's been 18 years, but 18 years ago when I postulated that the game was too captivating to stay where it was a cultural fixture, there was pushback.

Has the game gone national?

[Jumbo]

The game will continue to grow. 40-50 years ago, it was elite rich white preppies. But as more athletic kids begin to play, the game grows. We are just starting to see black athletes getting into the game. 10 years from now, Florida and Texas will be the last hotbeds.

Kids are so much more athletic today than when I played. My HS was public. Didn’t even win a state championship. And my senior class (1985) had D1 commits to Villanova, Penn state , uva, Towson, USNA. Every kid on my sons HS team is a better player than anyone on my high school team.

[3rdPersonPlural]

The game will continue to grow. 40-50 years ago, it was elite rich white preppies. But as more athletic kids begin to play, the game grows. We are just starting to see black athletes getting into the game. 10 years from now, Florida and Texas will be the last hotbeds.

Kids are so much more athletic today than when I played. My HS was public. Didn’t even win a state championship. And my senior class (1985) had D1 commits to Villanova, Penn state , uva, Towson, USNA. Every kid on my sons HS team is a better player than anyone on my high school team.

I played on a founders league and then a NESCAC team in the late '70's. I have officiated Middle School games between teams that could have obliterated either squad if the size/speed differential could be accounted for. Sometimes, these 14 year olds are from Texas or Colorado or Ohio or Florida. Some, of course, are from the legacy hotbeds.

Again, the good news is that the game has grown. Hallelujah!

[random observer]

My, how things have changed since I started re-engaging in lacrosse by participating in the departed predecessor site.

Back then, the hotbeds whose graduates dominated the DI college rosters were MIAA, Long Island, and Upstate New York, with growing representation from the Philly mainline and DMV and and SW CT. Players from beyond these regions were regarded as athletic freaks who had persevered through dismal competition and team-dad coaching to earn a spot with a competitive college team. Welcome to the sidelines, usually.

I just looked at the Inside Lacrosse HS rankings ( https://www.insidelacrosse.com/recruit ... ational/22 ) -- edit, this is apparently an out-of-date ranking -- and was surprised to see that the top LI High School team (Saint Ants) was ranked at #11. The top MIAA team is #4. I also noticed that ALL teams in the top 25 are private schools, but that’s a different thread. Where’s Manhasset and Garden City and Victor and Yorktown? Where’s Darien and Conestoga and Nisky all those other lacrosse factories that were fixtures in the top 25 for a couple of decades?

So then I looked at DI NCAA scoring (https://www.insidelacrosse.com/league/di/polls/2022, because certainly this list will still be dominated by players from the legacy hotbeds and (of course) Canada. Right?

Top of the ranking charts is U of Maryland. Probably a slew of local boys scoring all those points, right? There’s 1 kid from MD and a kids from Canada (of course) in their top 8 scorers, but the rest are from GA, CA, VA, MA, and NJ.

OK, let’s look at ‘cuse. Their reputation is showcasing Upstate and Canada, with ringers from Long Island and MD. Lo and behold, there is NO Canada in their top scorers and one MD kid (a legacy) in their leaderboard. OR and TX and FL in their top 4. No Long Island talent.

Georgetown has stormed to #2. Their top scorer is from Missouri. Oof!

Virginia has one MD kid in their top 8 (and, of course, a Canadian) but no New Yorkers.

Notre Dame is 'full of Chaminade kids', as Quint Kessenich remarked. Yup. The Kavanaugh brothers are the top 2 scorers, but the rest of the top 8 only includes a freshman from MD as far as hotbeds go. The kid from Malvern PA can be considered a product of a legacy emerging hotbed, if you wish.

Army actually fits my preconceptions. 4 of their top 5 scorers and 5 of their top 8 are from recognized lacrosse factories. So, let’s look at Navy, another region-agnostic team(?): Aw, heck, their top scorer is from Dallas. Really?

Duke is known as a school that finds and features the best. OK, their top scorer is a kid from LI who’s been a legend since middle school, and a Canadian, But their top scorer from the midfield is from....Texas?

The good news is that 'grow the game' has worked. I don't see any bad news, here. Lacrosse at the top level has gotten faster on foot, quicker and more precise in passing, and the schemes are more complex. The rope units are impenetrable unless they make a mistake. There are 20 great goalies instead of 1 or 2 each year getting recruited. It's been 18 years, but 18 years ago when I postulated that the game was too captivating to stay where it was a cultural fixture, there was pushback.

Has the game gone national?

Those are IL's computer rankings. There's not much transparency in how they work, and the system is missing a ton of game scores so it won't be entirely accurate even if the system's logic is sound. The website themselves doesn't really advertise it yet, focusing more on their human-run rankings.

Nonetheless there are a few factors at play. First and foremost, the game is growing. Second, some of the traditional hotbeds have gone through down spells or seen their best players get poached by these national prep factories.

[Farfromgeneva]

The game will continue to grow. 40-50 years ago, it was elite rich white preppies. But as more athletic kids begin to play, the game grows. We are just starting to see black athletes getting into the game. 10 years from now, Florida and Texas will be the last hotbeds.

Kids are so much more athletic today than when I played. My HS was public. Didn’t even win a state championship. And my senior class (1985) had D1 commits to Villanova, Penn state , uva, Towson, USNA. Every kid on my sons HS team is a better player than anyone on my high school team.

This is a mistake with respect to CNY/WNY. If anything they’ve declined because they are so poor and can’t afford all those expensive IL loved travel clubs and events. I think to a meaningful degree this is true or LI as well. With respect to NE and Mid Atlantic more true.

The world is flat. All those upstate NY kids of yesterday got the heck out of CNY and live elsewhere now.

[3rdPersonPlural]

The game will continue to grow. 40-50 years ago, it was elite rich white preppies. But as more athletic kids begin to play, the game grows. We are just starting to see black athletes getting into the game. 10 years from now, Florida and Texas will be the last hotbeds.

Kids are so much more athletic today than when I played. My HS was public. Didn’t even win a state championship. And my senior class (1985) had D1 commits to Villanova, Penn state , uva, Towson, USNA. Every kid on my sons HS team is a better player than anyone on my high school team.

This is a mistake with respect to CNY/WNY. If anything they’ve declined because they are so poor and can’t afford all those expensive IL loved travel clubs and events. I think to a meaningful degree this is true or LI as well. With respect to NE and Mid Atlantic more true.

The world is flat. All those upstate NY kids of yesterday got the heck out of CNY and live elsewhere now.

You're being snarky again, FFG, but the core of your point is accurate.

CNY/WNY youth teams show up at tournaments without all the nouveau bling (never a team-logo'd tent for the catered nosh or flashy team swag...) and sometimes without a concentration of eye-popping athletes, but they play smart and disciplined and thoughtful lacrosse. When they're on offense the ball stays in the air and off the grass. When they are on D the defense is aggressive and (a blessing for the officials) disciplined. They usually have a great goalkeeper but sometimes they don't and in the opinion of the refs (yeah....we talk) are the best teams with a losing record.

I suspect that the moniker 'hotbed' will evolve to mean 'a region where normal culture for regular folks includes lacrosse' and CNY/WNY will be the poster child for this.

[3rdPersonPlural]

My, how things have changed since I started re-engaging in lacrosse by participating in the departed predecessor site.

Back then, the hotbeds whose graduates dominated the DI college rosters were MIAA, Long Island, and Upstate New York, with growing representation from the Philly mainline and DMV and and SW CT. Players from beyond these regions were regarded as athletic freaks who had persevered through dismal competition and team-dad coaching to earn a spot with a competitive college team. Welcome to the sidelines, usually.

I just looked at the Inside Lacrosse HS rankings ( https://www.insidelacrosse.com/recruit ... ational/22 ) -- edit, this is apparently an out-of-date ranking -- and was surprised to see that the top LI High School team (Saint Ants) was ranked at #11. The top MIAA team is #4. I also noticed that ALL teams in the top 25 are private schools, but that’s a different thread. Where’s Manhasset and Garden City and Victor and Yorktown? Where’s Darien and Conestoga and Nisky all those other lacrosse factories that were fixtures in the top 25 for a couple of decades?

So then I looked at DI NCAA scoring (https://www.insidelacrosse.com/league/di/polls/2022, because certainly this list will still be dominated by players from the legacy hotbeds and (of course) Canada. Right?

Top of the ranking charts is U of Maryland. Probably a slew of local boys scoring all those points, right? There’s 1 kid from MD and a kids from Canada (of course) in their top 8 scorers, but the rest are from GA, CA, VA, MA, and NJ.

OK, let’s look at ‘cuse. Their reputation is showcasing Upstate and Canada, with ringers from Long Island and MD. Lo and behold, there is NO Canada in their top scorers and one MD kid (a legacy) in their leaderboard. OR and TX and FL in their top 4. No Long Island talent.

Georgetown has stormed to #2. Their top scorer is from Missouri. Oof!

Virginia has one MD kid in their top 8 (and, of course, a Canadian) but no New Yorkers.

Notre Dame is 'full of Chaminade kids', as Quint Kessenich remarked. Yup. The Kavanaugh brothers are the top 2 scorers, but the rest of the top 8 only includes a freshman from MD as far as hotbeds go. The kid from Malvern PA can be considered a product of a legacy emerging hotbed, if you wish.

Army actually fits my preconceptions. 4 of their top 5 scorers and 5 of their top 8 are from recognized lacrosse factories. So, let’s look at Navy, another region-agnostic team(?): Aw, heck, their top scorer is from Dallas. Really?

Duke is known as a school that finds and features the best. OK, their top scorer is a kid from LI who’s been a legend since middle school, and a Canadian, But their top scorer from the midfield is from....Texas?

The good news is that 'grow the game' has worked. I don't see any bad news, here. Lacrosse at the top level has gotten faster on foot, quicker and more precise in passing, and the schemes are more complex. The rope units are impenetrable unless they make a mistake. There are 20 great goalies instead of 1 or 2 each year getting recruited. It's been 18 years, but 18 years ago when I postulated that the game was too captivating to stay where it was a cultural fixture, there was pushback.

Has the game gone national?

Those are IL's computer rankings. There's not much transparency in how they work, and the system is missing a ton of game scores so it won't be entirely accurate even if the system's logic is sound. The website themselves doesn't really advertise it yet, focusing more on their human-run rankings.

Nonetheless there are a few factors at play. First and foremost, the game is growing. Second, some of the traditional hotbeds have gone through down spells or seen their best players get poached by these national prep factories.

Yeah. When LP closed down, they had almost 2500 teams that they tracked. IL has 1600, and I can't fathom that the game had shrunk that much.

I think the point that you're getting to is that public High Schools proudly field teams made up from their student body who are gleaned from a geographic footprint. This is why the term 'hotbed' had meaning. In a community where kids grow up with sticks in their hands and goals at elementary schools, their HS teams are going to be good, some teams will be world beaters, and some will play great lax but not win as much.

This is the natural ebb and flow.

But ALL top 25 are privates? Teams that can (but, of course, don't) recruit and jigger their admission policy and financial aid desk to ensure an exceptional team are excelling at a game?

Maybe 'grow the game' hasn't produced the results we anticipated.

[Farfromgeneva]

The game will continue to grow. 40-50 years ago, it was elite rich white preppies. But as more athletic kids begin to play, the game grows. We are just starting to see black athletes getting into the game. 10 years from now, Florida and Texas will be the last hotbeds.

Kids are so much more athletic today than when I played. My HS was public. Didn’t even win a state championship. And my senior class (1985) had D1 commits to Villanova, Penn state , uva, Towson, USNA. Every kid on my sons HS team is a better player than anyone on my high school team.

This is a mistake with respect to CNY/WNY. If anything they’ve declined because they are so poor and can’t afford all those expensive IL loved travel clubs and events. I think to a meaningful degree this is true or LI as well. With respect to NE and Mid Atlantic more true.

The world is flat. All those upstate NY kids of yesterday got the heck out of CNY and live elsewhere now.

You're being snarky again, FFG, but the core of your point is accurate.

CNY/WNY youth teams show up at tournaments without all the nouveau bling (never a team-logo'd tent for the catered nosh or flashy team swag...) and sometimes without a concentration of eye-popping athletes, but they play smart and disciplined and thoughtful lacrosse. When they're on offense the ball stays in the air and off the grass. When they are on D the defense is aggressive and (a blessing for the officials) disciplined. They usually have a great goalkeeper but sometimes they don't and in the opinion of the refs (yeah....we talk) are the best teams with a losing record.

I suspect that the moniker 'hotbed' will evolve to mean 'a region where normal culture for regular folks includes lacrosse' and CNY/WNY will be the poster child for this.

Sorry can’t help it I guess or maybe it’s the way I write vs speak when face to face. But was making a real point. I grew up in upstate and Ma very loyal to CNY even if I got out of there after college as fast as possible myself. But also watched the kids of many Hobart greats from the 70s and 80s go elsewhere for college and part of it was that the kids were coming from NJ, NYC/LI, Fairfield Co and the greater Boston area rather than Corning East, West Genny, Salamanca.

Binghamton was never much of a lacrosse HS, Vestal and Endicott (as well as Chennago valley) had some but section 4 historically was more dominated by the horse heads/Corning/Elmira area more to the west. As much as Binghamton has regressed those towns west have spiraled worse, I still have family in Steuben Co so I’ve seen it tragically too much. Something like 70% of the kids in Bath are on free and reduced lunches.

[Farfromgeneva]

The game will continue to grow. 40-50 years ago, it was elite rich white preppies. But as more athletic kids begin to play, the game grows. We are just starting to see black athletes getting into the game. 10 years from now, Florida and Texas will be the last hotbeds.

Kids are so much more athletic today than when I played. My HS was public. Didn’t even win a state championship. And my senior class (1985) had D1 commits to Villanova, Penn state , uva, Towson, USNA. Every kid on my sons HS team is a better player than anyone on my high school team.

This is a mistake with respect to CNY/WNY. If anything they’ve declined because they are so poor and can’t afford all those expensive IL loved travel clubs and events. I think to a meaningful degree this is true or LI as well. With respect to NE and Mid Atlantic more true.

The world is flat. All those upstate NY kids of yesterday got the heck out of CNY and live elsewhere now.

You're being snarky again, FFG, but the core of your point is accurate.

CNY/WNY youth teams show up at tournaments without all the nouveau bling (never a team-logo'd tent for the catered nosh or flashy team swag...) and sometimes without a concentration of eye-popping athletes, but they play smart and disciplined and thoughtful lacrosse. When they're on offense the ball stays in the air and off the grass. When they are on D the defense is aggressive and (a blessing for the officials) disciplined. They usually have a great goalkeeper but sometimes they don't and in the opinion of the refs (yeah....we talk) are the best teams with a losing record.

I suspect that the moniker 'hotbed' will evolve to mean 'a region where normal culture for regular folks includes lacrosse' and CNY/WNY will be the poster child for this.

I of course included the reservation areas and NA dominant spots around the finger lakes and WNY.

You know anything about section 4? We’ve got a kid coming in from Johnson City who was I believe the first Jr Aa in section 4 history named Cade Dino. I hear he’s a athlete but needs to continue to refine his skills. Hoping to hear more before next spring on his game.

[OSVAlacrosse]

I think the key missing from the discussion is the impact of COVID and summer and club ball. Kids that did not play club missed almost two full seasons, kids that play club did not miss a beat. They gap in talent is now wider than ever. Some good public school programs manage to get 4-5 club players on a team and they dominate public school teams that don't. Private schools scout and recruit through the clubs and the good coaches know who to get. As far as a hotbed area, DC has the best team in the Country because the coach managed to get more kids from the better clubs. However, in the summer, teams from CA, TX, GA will all get to up the bar by competing with top competition so even if the HS teams dont face that level they are prepared for it through the summer club circuit.

[kramerica.inc]

My, how things have changed since I started re-engaging in lacrosse by participating in the departed predecessor site.

Back then, the hotbeds whose graduates dominated the DI college rosters were MIAA, Long Island, and Upstate New York, with growing representation from the Philly mainline and DMV and and SW CT. Players from beyond these regions were regarded as athletic freaks who had persevered through dismal competition and team-dad coaching to earn a spot with a competitive college team. Welcome to the sidelines, usually.

I just looked at the Inside Lacrosse HS rankings ( https://www.insidelacrosse.com/recruit ... ational/22 ) -- edit, this is apparently an out-of-date ranking -- and was surprised to see that the top LI High School team (Saint Ants) was ranked at #11. The top MIAA team is #4. I also noticed that ALL teams in the top 25 are private schools, but that’s a different thread. Where’s Manhasset and Garden City and Victor and Yorktown? Where’s Darien and Conestoga and Nisky all those other lacrosse factories that were fixtures in the top 25 for a couple of decades?

So then I looked at DI NCAA scoring (https://www.insidelacrosse.com/league/di/polls/2022, because certainly this list will still be dominated by players from the legacy hotbeds and (of course) Canada. Right?

Top of the ranking charts is U of Maryland. Probably a slew of local boys scoring all those points, right? There’s 1 kid from MD and a kids from Canada (of course) in their top 8 scorers, but the rest are from GA, CA, VA, MA, and NJ.

OK, let’s look at ‘cuse. Their reputation is showcasing Upstate and Canada, with ringers from Long Island and MD. Lo and behold, there is NO Canada in their top scorers and one MD kid (a legacy) in their leaderboard. OR and TX and FL in their top 4. No Long Island talent.

Georgetown has stormed to #2. Their top scorer is from Missouri. Oof!

Virginia has one MD kid in their top 8 (and, of course, a Canadian) but no New Yorkers.

Notre Dame is 'full of Chaminade kids', as Quint Kessenich remarked. Yup. The Kavanaugh brothers are the top 2 scorers, but the rest of the top 8 only includes a freshman from MD as far as hotbeds go. The kid from Malvern PA can be considered a product of a legacy emerging hotbed, if you wish.

Army actually fits my preconceptions. 4 of their top 5 scorers and 5 of their top 8 are from recognized lacrosse factories. So, let’s look at Navy, another region-agnostic team(?): Aw, heck, their top scorer is from Dallas. Really?

Duke is known as a school that finds and features the best. OK, their top scorer is a kid from LI who’s been a legend since middle school, and a Canadian, But their top scorer from the midfield is from....Texas?

The good news is that 'grow the game' has worked. I don't see any bad news, here. Lacrosse at the top level has gotten faster on foot, quicker and more precise in passing, and the schemes are more complex. The rope units are impenetrable unless they make a mistake. There are 20 great goalies instead of 1 or 2 each year getting recruited. It's been 18 years, but 18 years ago when I postulated that the game was too captivating to stay where it was a cultural fixture, there was pushback.

Has the game gone national?

Those are IL's computer rankings. There's not much transparency in how they work, and the system is missing a ton of game scores so it won't be entirely accurate even if the system's logic is sound. The website themselves doesn't really advertise it yet, focusing more on their human-run rankings.

Nonetheless there are a few factors at play. First and foremost, the game is growing. Second, some of the traditional hotbeds have gone through down spells or seen their best players get poached by these national prep factories.

Yeah. When LP closed down, they had almost 2500 teams that they tracked. IL has 1600, and I can't fathom that the game had shrunk that much.

I think the point that you're getting to is that public High Schools proudly field teams made up from their student body who are gleaned from a geographic footprint. This is why the term 'hotbed' had meaning. In a community where kids grow up with sticks in their hands and goals at elementary schools, their HS teams are going to be good, some teams will be world beaters, and some will play great lax but not win as much.

This is the natural ebb and flow.

But ALL top 25 are privates? Teams that can (but, of course, don't) recruit and jigger their admission policy and financial aid desk to ensure an exceptional team are excelling at a game?

Maybe 'grow the game' hasn't produced the results we anticipated.

LaxPower hasn't gone anywhere.
It's just called LaxNumbers now.
And they are tracking about 4k high school programs:

https://www.laxnumbers.com/ratings.php?y=2022&v=3000
3961

[random observer]

My, how things have changed since I started re-engaging in lacrosse by participating in the departed predecessor site.

Back then, the hotbeds whose graduates dominated the DI college rosters were MIAA, Long Island, and Upstate New York, with growing representation from the Philly mainline and DMV and and SW CT. Players from beyond these regions were regarded as athletic freaks who had persevered through dismal competition and team-dad coaching to earn a spot with a competitive college team. Welcome to the sidelines, usually.

I just looked at the Inside Lacrosse HS rankings ( https://www.insidelacrosse.com/recruit ... ational/22 ) -- edit, this is apparently an out-of-date ranking -- and was surprised to see that the top LI High School team (Saint Ants) was ranked at #11. The top MIAA team is #4. I also noticed that ALL teams in the top 25 are private schools, but that’s a different thread. Where’s Manhasset and Garden City and Victor and Yorktown? Where’s Darien and Conestoga and Nisky all those other lacrosse factories that were fixtures in the top 25 for a couple of decades?

So then I looked at DI NCAA scoring (https://www.insidelacrosse.com/league/di/polls/2022, because certainly this list will still be dominated by players from the legacy hotbeds and (of course) Canada. Right?

Top of the ranking charts is U of Maryland. Probably a slew of local boys scoring all those points, right? There’s 1 kid from MD and a kids from Canada (of course) in their top 8 scorers, but the rest are from GA, CA, VA, MA, and NJ.

OK, let’s look at ‘cuse. Their reputation is showcasing Upstate and Canada, with ringers from Long Island and MD. Lo and behold, there is NO Canada in their top scorers and one MD kid (a legacy) in their leaderboard. OR and TX and FL in their top 4. No Long Island talent.

Georgetown has stormed to #2. Their top scorer is from Missouri. Oof!

Virginia has one MD kid in their top 8 (and, of course, a Canadian) but no New Yorkers.

Notre Dame is 'full of Chaminade kids', as Quint Kessenich remarked. Yup. The Kavanaugh brothers are the top 2 scorers, but the rest of the top 8 only includes a freshman from MD as far as hotbeds go. The kid from Malvern PA can be considered a product of a legacy emerging hotbed, if you wish.

Army actually fits my preconceptions. 4 of their top 5 scorers and 5 of their top 8 are from recognized lacrosse factories. So, let’s look at Navy, another region-agnostic team(?): Aw, heck, their top scorer is from Dallas. Really?

Duke is known as a school that finds and features the best. OK, their top scorer is a kid from LI who’s been a legend since middle school, and a Canadian, But their top scorer from the midfield is from....Texas?

The good news is that 'grow the game' has worked. I don't see any bad news, here. Lacrosse at the top level has gotten faster on foot, quicker and more precise in passing, and the schemes are more complex. The rope units are impenetrable unless they make a mistake. There are 20 great goalies instead of 1 or 2 each year getting recruited. It's been 18 years, but 18 years ago when I postulated that the game was too captivating to stay where it was a cultural fixture, there was pushback.

Has the game gone national?

Those are IL's computer rankings. There's not much transparency in how they work, and the system is missing a ton of game scores so it won't be entirely accurate even if the system's logic is sound. The website themselves doesn't really advertise it yet, focusing more on their human-run rankings.

Nonetheless there are a few factors at play. First and foremost, the game is growing. Second, some of the traditional hotbeds have gone through down spells or seen their best players get poached by these national prep factories.

Yeah. When LP closed down, they had almost 2500 teams that they tracked. IL has 1600, and I can't fathom that the game had shrunk that much.

I think the point that you're getting to is that public High Schools proudly field teams made up from their student body who are gleaned from a geographic footprint. This is why the term 'hotbed' had meaning. In a community where kids grow up with sticks in their hands and goals at elementary schools, their HS teams are going to be good, some teams will be world beaters, and some will play great lax but not win as much.

This is the natural ebb and flow.

But ALL top 25 are privates? Teams that can (but, of course, don't) recruit and jigger their admission policy and financial aid desk to ensure an exceptional team are excelling at a game?

Maybe 'grow the game' hasn't produced the results we anticipated.

LaxPower hasn't gone anywhere.
It's just called LaxNumbers now.
And they are tracking about 4k high school programs:

https://www.laxnumbers.com/ratings.php?y=2022&v=3000
3961

Laxnumbers IMO has the best computer rankings currently available for the high school level, but it's not without its flaws. It is my understanding (and please correct me if I'm mistaken) that lax numbers is not a simple rebrand of the Laxpower algorithm, which was so robust that many state associations used it for playoff seedings.

[kramerica.inc]

I don’t know for sure, but it certainly seems very similar to the laxpower formula. Will be interesting to see if it gives a championship rating “bonus” like laxpower did.

[Nigel]

Wait, this is a lacrosse topic? I thought it was about global warming...er, climate change.

[Farfromgeneva]

Wait, this is a lacrosse topic? I thought it was about global warming...er, climate change.

The upstate NY kids are praying for global warming from October to April every year.

[Jumbo]

The game will continue to grow. 40-50 years ago, it was elite rich white preppies. But as more athletic kids begin to play, the game grows. We are just starting to see black athletes getting into the game. 10 years from now, Florida and Texas will be the last hotbeds.

Kids are so much more athletic today than when I played. My HS was public. Didn’t even win a state championship. And my senior class (1985) had D1 commits to Villanova, Penn state , uva, Towson, USNA. Every kid on my sons HS team is a better player than anyone on my high school team.

This is a mistake with respect to CNY/WNY. If anything they’ve declined because they are so poor and can’t afford all those expensive IL loved travel clubs and events. I think to a meaningful degree this is true or LI as well. With respect to NE and Mid Atlantic more true.

The world is flat. All those upstate NY kids of yesterday got the heck out of CNY and live elsewhere now.

I think what is really happening is kids today are not as tough as year ago. They aren’t outside in the cold New England winters practicing. Maryland south has the advantage. Kids are outside getting better in Feb and March. NE kids are inside watching hockey

[kramerica.inc]

The game will continue to grow. 40-50 years ago, it was elite rich white preppies. But as more athletic kids begin to play, the game grows. We are just starting to see black athletes getting into the game. 10 years from now, Florida and Texas will be the last hotbeds.

Kids are so much more athletic today than when I played. My HS was public. Didn’t even win a state championship. And my senior class (1985) had D1 commits to Villanova, Penn state , uva, Towson, USNA. Every kid on my sons HS team is a better player than anyone on my high school team.

This is a mistake with respect to CNY/WNY. If anything they’ve declined because they are so poor and can’t afford all those expensive IL loved travel clubs and events. I think to a meaningful degree this is true or LI as well. With respect to NE and Mid Atlantic more true.

The world is flat. All those upstate NY kids of yesterday got the heck out of CNY and live elsewhere now.

I think what is really happening is kids today are not as tough as year ago. They aren’t outside in the cold New England winters practicing. Maryland south has the advantage. Kids are outside getting better in Feb and March. NE kids are inside watching hockey

Artificial turf has made players soft.
No muddy creases, no losing cleats, no pockets full of dirt when you throw, no weird or lucky bouncers.
They took all the fun out of it.

[Slim]

Completely agree, Kramerica! Bring back the grass fields, fresh cut grass, ruts and c lumps, the odd bouncers, the mud, the longer cleats, fewer ACLs, less shin splints/stress fractures, etc.

[Farfromgeneva]

Completely agree, Kramerica! Bring back the grass fields, fresh cut grass, ruts and c lumps, the odd bouncers, the mud, the longer cleats, fewer ACLs, less shin splints/stress fractures, etc.

Make the vast majority of kids who play college lacrosse get jobs in the real world rather than feed off parents anxiety in the club and camp circuit.

[Slim]

Spot on, FarfromGeneva!