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5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:35 am
by LarryGamLax
Did anyone hear the discussion during 2nd or 3rd quarter of last night's UNC vs UVa game about Jamie Ortega being a "5 time All-American"? I found that strange(no such thing in Lacrosse, that I know of) and annoying. Why? Is this another problem created from the COVID season? You have records that were set, broken and challenged as the results from a season that was "wiped out"? Right?
I believe that those things need to be addressed by the NCAA and the individual academic institutions. Players records that were broken, or are on the verge of being tied or broken have played their 4 years and do not get another bite at the apple. Is that fair? Do you see what the "COVID gift year" has done?
What is the solution to this miscarriage?
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:51 am
by OuttaNowhereWregget
You and Ford Frick, Larry.
I don’t pay it no mind. Happens in every sport.
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:53 am
by DMac
Yes, I did, and the answer to the miscarriage was ignored by the NCAA decision makers when the pandemic hit.
The military academies recognized that life goes on despite the curves that are thrown at you in life and their
players are now out fulfilling their obligations around the world with bars on their shoulders. Life went on. There
are gut punches in life which the NCAA wanted to protect their precious commodities from and in their sympathy
move they phuked the whole works up. JMHO.
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:02 am
by Lax101
The 5x AA thing is stupid. How can you be a 5x AA when you get 4 years of eligibility. It's not possible. The stats and record situation is even worse in fall and winter sports that played a full Covid year - sports like BB, volleyball, field hockey etc - unlike lax that played only 7 games in the 1st Covid year. To me it is simple but the NCAA will do nothing. For those players that came back for a 5th year you include the better of their 4th and 5th year for statistical purposes. For most athletes that will be year 5 - certainly for lax.
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:02 am
by Brownlax
LarryGamLax wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:35 am
Did anyone hear the discussion during 2nd or 3rd quarter of last night's UNC vs UVa game about Jamie Ortega being a "5 time All-American"? I found that strange(no such thing in Lacrosse, that I know of) and annoying. Why? Is this another problem created from the COVID season? You have records that were set, broken and challenged as the results from a season that was "wiped out"? Right?
I believe that those things need to be addressed by the NCAA and the individual academic institutions. Players records that were broken, or are on the verge of being tied or broken have played their 4 years and do not get another bite at the apple. Is that fair? Do you see what the "COVID gift year" has done?
What is the solution to this miscarriage?
I know someone did an analysis of how many games Jamie Ortega has played in her 5 years compared to the other record-setting players in the ACC and she has fewer games as of right now than the other players who played 4 years.
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:25 am
by DMac
Doesn't eliminate the fact that she and a whole bunch of players involved in these records and such had an extra year to do it in though.
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:53 am
by LarryGamLax
Brownlax wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:02 am
LarryGamLax wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 10:35 am
Did anyone hear the discussion during 2nd or 3rd quarter of last night's UNC vs UVa game about Jamie Ortega being a "5 time All-American"? I found that strange(no such thing in Lacrosse, that I know of) and annoying. Why? Is this another problem created from the COVID season? You have records that were set, broken and challenged as the results from a season that was "wiped out"? Right?
I believe that those things need to be addressed by the NCAA and the individual academic institutions. Players records that were broken, or are on the verge of being tied or broken have played their 4 years and do not get another bite at the apple. Is that fair? Do you see what the "COVID gift year" has done?
What is the solution to this miscarriage?
I know someone did an analysis of how many games Jamie Ortega has played in her 5 years compared to the other record-setting players in the ACC and she has fewer games as of right now than the other players who played 4 years.
Okay, but Taralyn Naslonski(Rutgers) is the All-Time leading scorer in school history and she has played in 72 games as opposed to Denise Reed(1987-90), who played in 62 games over 4 years. She was the All-Time leading scorer at Rutgers until recently when Naslonski passed her with 10 more games(at this point) under her belt. Nothing against Naslonski, but do you see how this is perceived as unfair? Should Naslonski's record have an asterisk(w/explanation) next to it?
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:07 pm
by wlaxphan20
They were probably referring to media outlet (USA Lacrosse Magazine, Inside Lacrosse) All-American awards, because the
IWLCA website specifically states that it did not give out any such awards during the 2019-2020 season (
https://www.iwlca.org/page/show/6419294-2020). If the magazines wanted to give out awards because there was nothing else to talk about due to the season being canceled, fine - they probably did so before it was announced athletes would be getting that year back.
And because the NCAA already had a precedent for deferring eligibility (red shirting), giving those athletes the year back, to me, made sense. The NCAA would likely have received just as much, if not more, backlash if they failed to do so.
Jamie Ortega will also likely never reach the # of games played by Kayla Treanor's or Taylor Cummings's normal, 4 year careers (she can tie Cummings
only if UNC plays a first round game in ACC's and NCAA's) I don't understand how one can say "but they still had an extra year to do it" when you look at the number of games and there really is no clear advantage as far as the number of games played. The discrepancies in number of games played already existed before this COVID year was granted. Just look at the record books: Kelly Larkin & Alyssa Parrella played 72 career games, Shannon Smith played 91, Kristen Kjellman played 81, Katie Rowan played 75, Gail Cummings played 69, and so on and so on.
The number of games played each season is going also to continue to change over the years as the NCAA tournament expands & as conferences add more teams.
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:15 pm
by DMac
Okay, that all makes way too much sense.
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:29 pm
by laxer12
DMac wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:25 am
Doesn't eliminate the fact that she and a whole bunch of players involved in these records and such had an extra year to do it in though.
I don't think 7 or 8 additional games (however many a team played before 2020 was canceled) can constitute as an "extra year" for players.
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:47 pm
by DMac
Truth be told I'm not all that concerned about any of it, it is what it is and that's that. I'm actually glad the players didn't lose out on their college lacrosse experience, it's pretty special in my book. Came at a price for others though, created a log jam, and I don't like that part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCyUOvWBhJE
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:52 pm
by wlaxphan20
DMac wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:47 pm
Truth be told I'm not all that concerned about any of it, it is what it is and that's that. I'm actually glad the players didn't lose out on their college lacrosse experience, it's pretty special in my book. Came at a price for others though, created a log jam, and I don't like that part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCyUOvWBhJE
I agree, the jam it created is unfortunate. The college experience, particularly student-athlete experience, can be a very special one
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:04 pm
by Brownlax
wlaxphan20 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:07 pm
They were probably referring to media outlet (USA Lacrosse Magazine, Inside Lacrosse) All-American awards, because the
IWLCA website specifically states that it did not give out any such awards during the 2019-2020 season (
https://www.iwlca.org/page/show/6419294-2020). If the magazines wanted to give out awards because there was nothing else to talk about due to the season being canceled, fine - they probably did so before it was announced athletes would be getting that year back.
And because the NCAA already had a precedent for deferring eligibility (red shirting), giving those athletes the year back, to me, made sense. The NCAA would likely have received just as much, if not more, backlash if they failed to do so.
Jamie Ortega will also likely never reach the # of games played by Kayla Treanor's or Taylor Cummings's normal, 4 year careers (she can tie Cummings
only if UNC plays a first round game in ACC's and NCAA's) I don't understand how one can say "but they still had an extra year to do it" when you look at the number of games and there really is no clear advantage as far as the number of games played. The discrepancies in number of games played already existed before this COVID year was granted. Just look at the record books: Kelly Larkin & Alyssa Parrella played 72 career games, Shannon Smith played 91, Kristen Kjellman played 81, Katie Rowan played 75, Gail Cummings played 69, and so on and so on.
The number of games played each season is going also to continue to change over the years as the NCAA tournament expands & as conferences add more teams.
+1
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:08 pm
by Seacoaster(1)
DMac wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:15 pm
Okay, that all makes way too much sense.
Wlaxphan20 has a long and storied history of making too much sense.
Re: 5 X All-American???
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:10 pm
by DMac
Kinda like me, eh?
Finding it very hard to keep a straight face here.