Crime and Punishment

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.
a fan
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by a fan »

cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:23 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:26 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:49 am So nobody wants to discuss how to prevent these well organized smash and grab robberies? Maybe when retail stores keep shutting or people get fed up with toothpaste being kept in locked display cases there will be a tipping point? When will they start hunting these thieves down like rabid dogs and prosecuting them as domestic terrorists? That is what they are after all. The government did it to the Jan.6 domestic terrorists. The danger from this new group of domestic terrorists is equally as dangerous. The government should consider prosecuting these crimes as a felony. 20 years in federal prison should get the message across...don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Unless of course some of you folks are comfortable living with this particular brand of domestic terrorism ? :roll:
1. Stop cutting taxes, and invest in American cities and rural America. Return to Clinton era effective tax rates. Trickledown didn't work
2. Move to a European style of education: free college and trade schools. Invest in our people
3. Move to a European style of single payer health care. What we're doing sucks, across the board.

There you go. Do that. Our country is falling apart because we stopped investing in America, and instead, cut taxes and played global cop.
Hard for me to disagree with you so vehemently. America is getting more effed up because a new and younger generation of criminals understand they have immunity from prosecution. When you can pistol whip a person and steal their car and then be given a f***ing appearance ticket when caught because your 14 years old. 😡If you wanna do a big boy crime then your ass should be sent to a big boy prison so you can learn what happens when you act like a big boy criminal
If that’s the real problem—-we aren’t jailing enough people—-why is our incarceration rate about 10 times higher than EU nations…yet this still happens? I’m suggesting, maybe that’s not the real problem. And you have to catch them to throw them in jail.

What are EU nations doing that we aren’t, cradle?
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cradleandshoot
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by cradleandshoot »

a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:35 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:23 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:26 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:49 am So nobody wants to discuss how to prevent these well organized smash and grab robberies? Maybe when retail stores keep shutting or people get fed up with toothpaste being kept in locked display cases there will be a tipping point? When will they start hunting these thieves down like rabid dogs and prosecuting them as domestic terrorists? That is what they are after all. The government did it to the Jan.6 domestic terrorists. The danger from this new group of domestic terrorists is equally as dangerous. The government should consider prosecuting these crimes as a felony. 20 years in federal prison should get the message across...don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Unless of course some of you folks are comfortable living with this particular brand of domestic terrorism ? :roll:
1. Stop cutting taxes, and invest in American cities and rural America. Return to Clinton era effective tax rates. Trickledown didn't work
2. Move to a European style of education: free college and trade schools. Invest in our people
3. Move to a European style of single payer health care. What we're doing sucks, across the board.

There you go. Do that. Our country is falling apart because we stopped investing in America, and instead, cut taxes and played global cop.
Hard for me to disagree with you so vehemently. America is getting more effed up because a new and younger generation of criminals understand they have immunity from prosecution. When you can pistol whip a person and steal their car and then be given a f***ing appearance ticket when caught because your 14 years old. 😡If you wanna do a big boy crime then your ass should be sent to a big boy prison so you can learn what happens when you act like a big boy criminal
If that’s the real problem—-we aren’t jailing enough people—-why is our incarceration rate about 10 times higher than EU nations…yet this still happens? I’m suggesting, maybe that’s not the real problem. And you have to catch them to throw them in jail.

What are EU nations doing that we aren’t, cradle?
We are having a different conversation my friend. Have you ever taken any look at all in regards to crimes being committed by juveniles 16 and under? When you do your homework maybe you will view the issue from a different perspective? This may be anecdotal and isolated to Rochester NY... this past Monday a group of 6 young folks threatened a couple of folks with a hammer and demanded their valuables. They came up empty and drove away in a stolen vehicle. The police spotted their car and a high speed pursuit ensued. After they crashed the car all 6 suspects were apprehended. The 2 oldest were 16 then 15, 14, 13 and 12. I believe one already had a warrant out for his arrest. Everybody else gets an appearance ticket. You have a lot of solutions a Fan. Do you think these utes commiting big boy crimes should be treated like big boys? When your 14 years old and robbing people with a weapon and stealing cars that ain't the same as stealing bubble gum from the corner grocery store. :roll: There have been over 3300 vehicles stolen in the City of Rochester since January. The vast majority of them stolen by yutes 16 or under who watched that stupid TikTok video. These stolen vehicles have also been used as battering rams to smash into buildings at 3 am to grab and go. They even became smart enough to back the cars into these stores. You get 5 minutes to grab whatever you can and your gone long before the police show up. Hell, even if you do get caught all the police can do is give you an appearance ticket and send you on your way. If I had pulled a stunt like that when I was 14 my father would have beaten me to within an inch of my life. When I finally recovered I would have been responsible for paying for the damage I did. Do you a Fan have any understanding how frustrated a working person feels when somebody steals your car for a joyride and you get the bill for a couple of grand in damage that you don't have. These juveniles don't give a chit about the damage they do or the people they harm. How would you feel a Fan if a bunch of young uns broke into your distillery and trashed all of your stills and shut you down because to them it was all good fun? I bet you would be pretty ticked off. If all they received was an appearance ticket and a slap on the wrist because they were 14. Who should pay you restitution or would you just shrug it off and submit a claim to your insurance?
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
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youthathletics
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by youthathletics »

These "Large Gatherings" are now the new "Mostly Peaceful Protests', only this time, they get leave with free prizes. Nice to see how these Mayors work in real time at crime riddles cities. Then diverts (moves the goalpost) like a champ and praises the police. Gonna call it a wash. :lol:

https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/170748 ... 49162?s=20
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
Farfromgeneva
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by Farfromgeneva »

PizzaSnake wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:57 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:48 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:40 pm
6x6 wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:17 pm
youthathletics wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 2:14 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:18 am
youthathletics wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:57 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:19 am So what solution does either party have to stop the gang related smash and grab? So a 100 or so thieves just storm a retail store and grab all the good stuff and go. I went to my Home Depot store yesterday. Their new security measures are impressive. If you wanna buy a new weed whacker they are all behind cages under lock and key. You want one a store associate has to get it for you and escort you and your purchase to the register. To make you feel more secure my Home Depot store has an armed security guard stationed just behind the registers. This is the new world you FLP liberals are introducing to America. Do you liberals have a solution? You all have made it possible. The nation is reaping what liberalism has sown. :roll:
Same idea behind NOT having a Police officer in a school. Think about it, it does not happen in places that hire real local police officers to work security where their state officials discourage this behavior. In DC, plenty of them work side jobs just parking in an apartment complex or at a car lot. Sign and cameras do not do any good, and the closure rate afterwards is quite low. I bet if they were doing this in gun stores things would change.

Or just put up a no-shoplifting / no-security sign.....that'll work. ;)
The end result is more and more stores can't survive and they close down. The lady I chatted with yesterday at Home Depot just shrugged her shoulders. These thieves are so emboldened they will grab whatever they can that is not locked up in cages and casually waltz right out of the store. HD policy even with armed security is not to confront the thieves. The HD solution is simple, they just pass the cost incurred from the thievery onto their customers. That is a win for the thieves and a win for HD and a huge loss for the consumer. Not that any of the usual suspects on this forum give two chits about that. :roll:
And when they close down, they'll say it was the stores fault. Need more employees like this..... :shock: https://x.com/DailyLoud/status/1706756824043491501?s=20
Not sure about the crime and punishment title regarding this. The employee pops a couple caps at customers over missing fries, she’s arrested and charged for Assault with a Deadly Weapon. She pleads guilty to Deadly Conduct, a lesser charge and receives one year of Deferred Adjudication which she completed. So, no conviction on her record for this. Not sure the company wants more employees like her as they are now being sued by the family.
Pretty sure she was fired.
Personally…I think that if I disagree with a person and they violate anything they should be punished like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a3zWYzARwq0

*Heads up it’s gnarly.
Bobby G was a sick, sick unit. I saw the "uncut" version (which this may be from) in the '90s. Something not right with that one.
Me too! Junior year of HS and it wasn’t even in the 18 and older back room, on a shelf. Didn’t know what I was getting into but I was already a big fan of Vonnegut and Camus and had seen all or lost the Kubrick movies so see Gladwell and uncut and thinking more faces of death than Debbie does Dallas but ended up getting both.

(Of course as a typical upstate kid I had the standard interests as well as the weird ones - sports, girls, cheap kegs in the woods or some poor unsuspecting rich Freshman’s house when they’re parents are out of town, dirty weed, chicken wings, general degeneracy.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
Farfromgeneva
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by Farfromgeneva »

PizzaSnake wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:57 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:48 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:40 pm
6x6 wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:17 pm
youthathletics wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 2:14 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 9:18 am
youthathletics wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:57 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:19 am So what solution does either party have to stop the gang related smash and grab? So a 100 or so thieves just storm a retail store and grab all the good stuff and go. I went to my Home Depot store yesterday. Their new security measures are impressive. If you wanna buy a new weed whacker they are all behind cages under lock and key. You want one a store associate has to get it for you and escort you and your purchase to the register. To make you feel more secure my Home Depot store has an armed security guard stationed just behind the registers. This is the new world you FLP liberals are introducing to America. Do you liberals have a solution? You all have made it possible. The nation is reaping what liberalism has sown. :roll:
Same idea behind NOT having a Police officer in a school. Think about it, it does not happen in places that hire real local police officers to work security where their state officials discourage this behavior. In DC, plenty of them work side jobs just parking in an apartment complex or at a car lot. Sign and cameras do not do any good, and the closure rate afterwards is quite low. I bet if they were doing this in gun stores things would change.

Or just put up a no-shoplifting / no-security sign.....that'll work. ;)
The end result is more and more stores can't survive and they close down. The lady I chatted with yesterday at Home Depot just shrugged her shoulders. These thieves are so emboldened they will grab whatever they can that is not locked up in cages and casually waltz right out of the store. HD policy even with armed security is not to confront the thieves. The HD solution is simple, they just pass the cost incurred from the thievery onto their customers. That is a win for the thieves and a win for HD and a huge loss for the consumer. Not that any of the usual suspects on this forum give two chits about that. :roll:
And when they close down, they'll say it was the stores fault. Need more employees like this..... :shock: https://x.com/DailyLoud/status/1706756824043491501?s=20
Not sure about the crime and punishment title regarding this. The employee pops a couple caps at customers over missing fries, she’s arrested and charged for Assault with a Deadly Weapon. She pleads guilty to Deadly Conduct, a lesser charge and receives one year of Deferred Adjudication which she completed. So, no conviction on her record for this. Not sure the company wants more employees like her as they are now being sued by the family.
Pretty sure she was fired.
Personally…I think that if I disagree with a person and they violate anything they should be punished like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a3zWYzARwq0

*Heads up it’s gnarly.
Bobby G was a sick, sick unit. I saw the "uncut" version (which this may be from) in the '90s. Something not right with that one.
I will add that it’s not as good on violence as Titus (Andronicus) done maybe 20yrs back w Anthony Hopkins, Alan Cumming, Angus McFayden, Famous older female actress who’s name spacing on (excellent) & Harry Lennix rocking Aron the Moore. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xcLGJ0c-X9k

Shakespeare’s bloodiest play. I’m told by a very trustworthy source (my sister who worked with her in the past) that Julie Taymor is a brilliant jerk.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
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Brooklyn
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by Brooklyn »

a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:26 pm
1. Stop cutting taxes*, and invest in American cities and rural America. Return to Clinton era effective tax rates. Trickledown didn't work
2. Move to a European style of education: free college and trade schools. Invest in our people
3. Move to a European style of single payer health care. What we're doing sucks, across the board.

There you go. Do that. Our country is falling apart because we stopped investing in America, and instead, cut taxes and played global cop.

Excellent start. Next step, well, it's an old idea whose time has come once again:



The Full Employment Solution
Truly fixing the American economy requires full employment, as Franklin Roosevelt proposed 74 years ago. And that can't be done through the private sector alone.



https://prospect.org/health/full-employment-solution/


Senator Bernie Sanders is reportedly introducing legislation this week that establishes a program of governmentally provided full employment. Earlier this month, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand tweeted her support for the idea. Senator Cory Booker has a proposal to establish full employment pilot programs in 15 urban and rural areas. With full employment returning to the Democrats' agendas, we are reposting this article, which both sketches the history of the full employment movement and makes the case for reviving it, from our Winter 2018 issue.

Two years into U.S. involvement in World War II, President Franklin Roosevelt delivered his 1944 State of the Union address, calling for a Second Bill of Rights—by which he meant not just political rights, but economic rights. The wartime economy was firing on all cylinders, bringing the unemployment rate to historic lows, averaging just 1.7 percent from 1943 to 1945. But Roosevelt and his advisers were concerned about maintaining these employment levels and the economic expansion when the war came to a close.

“Necessitous men,” Roosevelt observed, “are not free men.” Those “who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.” Real freedom, he said, freedom to “pursue happiness,” required a “second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all.” For Roosevelt, full citizenship demanded more than the political rights designated in the first ten amendments to the Constitution: It required economic rights as well. Roosevelt outlined them in his speech:

1. The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation.

2. The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation.

3. The right of every family to a decent home.

4. The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health.

5. The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment.

6. The right to a good education.

Roosevelt and his administration turned their attention first to delivering legislation that would achieve full employment, a condition where anyone who wanted a job could find employment. While Roosevelt's Second Bill of Rights, also known as the Economic Bill of Rights, was ambiguous about the mechanisms for reaching and sustaining full employment, the administration forged ahead with the Full Employment Bill of 1945, hammering out the details in the process.

The bill proclaimed that all Americans had the “right to work,” which entailed the right to access “useful, remunerative, regular, and full-time” employment.

Although the bill passed the Senate, it was defeated in the House by Republicans and Southern Democrats who feared the legislation would derail the continued domination of black workers.

A year after President Roosevelt's death, a markedly weaker version of the bill, the Employment Act of 1946, passed Congress and was signed into law by President Truman. The bill lacked many of the key provisions in the original Full Employment Bill of 1945, stripping the provisions that guaranteed a full employment economy or a right to a job.

Roosevelt died before he could establish the economic rights he put forth as a constitutional commitment. In later years, however, prominent politicians and civil rights leaders would build on Roosevelt's vision for economic justice.

The pursuit of economic rights captivated the nation's attention nearly two decades later during the civil rights movement. In 1965, the convener and organizer, respectively, of the great 1963 March on Washington—A. Philip Randolph and Bayard Rustin—and the former New Deal economist Leon Keyserling drafted “Freedom Budgets” that recognized that poverty and unemployment remained a great barrier to opportunity and expressed the need for strong federal action to bring economic equity to all Americans. Martin Luther King Jr. joined this campaign, and before he was assassinated, he planned a new march on Washington, the Poor People's Campaign of 1968, to demand economic rights for all, linking the civil rights movement to a movement for economic rights.

Following King's death, Coretta Scott King and other civil rights leaders continued to campaign for economic rights. Coretta Scott King's actions were pivotal in developing what would become the 1978 Full Employment and Balanced Growth Act, better known as the Humphrey-Hawkins Act, after its Senate sponsor (Minnesota's Hubert Humphrey) and its sponsor in the House (California's Augustus Hawkins). The act, an amendment to the 1946 Employment Act, initially—and boldly—was conceived as a mandate to guarantee full employment through direct government hiring.

At the time, Humphrey remarked that the Employment Act of 1946 had “been conveniently ignored.” To correct this, early versions of the legislation proposed the creation of a federal Job Guarantee Office, which would be tasked with maintaining full employment through direct government hiring. The final version of the bill, however, included language calling for a goal, rather than a mandate, of a 3 percent unemployment rate within five years, and for full employment to be achieved as soon as possible thereafter. Forty years later, the government has failed to achieve the employment targets in any year since the legislation's passage.

Today, despite the recovery from the Great Recession, the problem of inadequate employment continues to plague our society. Not only are there millions more Americans seeking jobs than there are available openings, but many Americans who are working remain in poverty because of woefully inadequate wages.

These conditions warrant the resurrection of a bold idea, an Economic Bill of Rights for all Americans, tailored to the conditions of the 21st century. Below, we turn our attention to the first article of a new Economic Bill of Rights—a federal job guarantee.

Why the need for such a guarantee? First, we invariably have major economic crises that drive people out of work; the most recent episode is the Great Recession. Second, even in “good” economic times, the United States has more people seeking employment than the private sector is willing to employ. And third, not only do we generally have an inadequate number of jobs, but we have a tier of jobs that feature low pay, uncertain hours, and few or no benefits.

What the nation needs is federal legislation that would guarantee employment to every American at non-poverty wages. Similar legislation to what we envision has already been introduced to Congress (H.R. 1000, the Jobs for All Act, which has 29 co-sponsors). In our proposal, we would first establish the National Investment Employment Corps (NIEC), a permanent agency to oversee direct employment of all Americans seeking a job. If individuals were unable to find adequate employment in the private sector, they could turn to the government for employment. In return, the government would provide employment at non-poverty wages. The minimum yearly salary would be at least $24,600, with guaranteed benefits as well.

Provision of a reasonable floor for compensation in the labor market must be a critical feature of the program. If employers are unwilling to provide employment, or are offering terms inferior to those offered under the NIEC, individuals can simply take the public-sector job. However, to provide genuine economic security, workers will need more than a non-poverty wage—they need benefits. The program will include health insurance for full-time workers (35 to 40 hours per week) of the same quality that is received by civil servants and elected officials in the federal government.

Image
https://magazine.columbia.edu/sites/def ... k=zqiILqj3

Such a program, which will transform the labor market as we know it, will come with a price tag. We estimate that the federal job guarantee, inclusive of total compensation, training, and materials, will have an annual cost of about $575 billion, which is nearly 3 percent of GDP. But that will not be the net expense of the program. Since the program functions both as a full employment and as an anti--poverty program, a portion of the expenditures the United States currently devotes to a variety of entitlement programs could be reduced significantly. This would include lower expenditures for unemployment insurance, food stamps, or other types of means-tested social programs.

It is not extraordinarily difficult for governments to fund large-scale programs. The fact that at the outset of the Great Recession, huge amounts of public funds were quickly turned over to the banking community suggests that there is a huge capacity to meet large, new expenses.

How would the program function? The NIEC would be housed under the Department of Labor and administered by the secretary of labor. If individuals want a job, they simply could go to reconfigured unemployment offices.

Under the job guarantee, those offices would become, literally, employment offices, where any applicant could get a job on demand.

The specific types of work undertaken in the program would be developed in conjunction with local and state governments. The needs of a rural community in West Virginia may be different from the community needs in the city of Milwaukee. Local and state governments would work with the federal government to develop jobs that would serve the needs of specific communities while taking into consideration what would be appropriate for workers in need in the region. Ultimate administrative authority and funding would be provided at the federal level, and priority would be given to the most distressed communities and to infrastructure projects in areas with the most need.

We envision an array of jobs that would address both our nation's physical and human infrastructure needs. Such a program could rebuild our crumbling roads and bridges, and could provide such services as elder care and child care. Imagine if the government mobilized resources to provide universal, high-quality elder care. Its positive impact would not be limited to the direct recipients of the service, but it could also reduce dramatically the stress, time, and monetary expenses now borne by relatives who have to provide or pay for all of the care work themselves.

Beyond building roads, bridges, schools, and other public infrastructure, the program could also play a fundamental role in transforming areas of our economy, hastening, for instance, a transition to a “green,” decarbonized economy.

One of the major benefits of such a program is its transformative effect on the U.S. economy, away from low-wage work toward decent jobs for all. The program would reshape the power dynamics between labor and capital, enabling workers to have more bargaining power by removing the threat of unemployment. This would likely lead to a shift in income away from capital towards labor. Corporations and their shareholders do stand to incur a loss on that score.

On the other hand, the federal job guarantee will reduce business costs by extending and maintaining the nation's human and physical infrastructure and creating greater demand for the products of America's businesses. Both of these effects will benefit the private sector's bottom line, providing at least a partial offset to the impact of the job guarantee on labor's bargaining position.

The federal job guarantee not only will chart a direct route to full employment, but also to decent and dignified employment for all Americans. At long last, it will make the right to a job a reality.




Sadly, this solution has been rejected by those right wing nitwits who control Congress and the economy. Congress has full authority to create this legislation under the Commerce Clause so that there is absolutely no chance of any court declaring it unconstitutional. The solution to all of the USA's problems have been available all along. There simply is no excuse for unemployment, poverty, homelessness, crime, degenerating infrastructure, and people dying due to lack of healthcare. Delusional right wingers are always obsessed with the idea that Democrats are to blame for society's ills. But as everybody knows but may be too afraid to admit ~ it's the right wingers who are responsible for the mess we see every day.

Everybody, and I mean everybody, knows it.





*remove ALL tax shelters and use the capital to end the nation's debt
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
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Brooklyn
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by Brooklyn »

Suspect in Maine shooting spree found dead:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/li ... #rcrd23582


Just announced on Alex Wagner's show.

Shooting suspect is dead, law enforcement officials say


A former Army reservist suspected of killing 18 people in mass shootings in Lewiston, Maine, has been found dead, four senior law enforcement officials tell NBC News.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
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Brooklyn
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by Brooklyn »

violent day in Tampa:




Too bad society side steps issues such as this and prefers to waste another $165 billion in Russia-Ukraine & Israel. Somehow the lives of those people are of greater significance to the pols in Washington DC and to so many others in this society. Small wonder why our problems continue unsolved.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
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cradleandshoot
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by cradleandshoot »

It took longer than I thought but someone in prison finally took a whack at killing Derek Chauvin. They didn't kill him this time but good ole Derek is a dead man walking. I wonder what the price on his head is?
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by Farfromgeneva »

About three packs of Mack.
Same sword they knight you they gon' good night you with
Thats' only half if they like you
That ain't even the half what they might do
Don't believe me, ask Michael
See Martin, Malcolm
See Jesus, Judas; Caesar, Brutus
See success is like suicide
PizzaSnake
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by PizzaSnake »

Land of the free, home of the brave…

“The Colorado officer who stopped Elijah McClain in 2019 and placed him in a neck hold was reinstated to the Aurora police department and will receive $200,000 in back pay, city officials said on Monday.”

“On 24 August 2019, McClain was walking home from buying iced tea at a convenience store and listening to music on headphones when a driver passing by called police, reporting that McClain “looks sketchy” and “might be a good person or a bad person”. McClain was wearing a ski mask, which he used to keep warm due to being anemic.

Although the 911 caller made clear that he did not see any weapons and that he was not in danger, nor was anyone else, police quickly responded with extreme force.

Woodyard was the first to confront McClain, body-camera footage showed, immediately grabbing him and shouting: “I have a right to stop you because you’re being suspicious.” Two other police officers, Randy Roedema and Jason Rosenblatt, soon arrived and with Woodyard surrounded him. McClain responded: “I’m an introvert. Please respect the boundaries that I’m speaking … I’m going home.”

The three forced McClain to the ground and placed him in a neck hold, while putting their combined body weight on top of him. McClain said “I can’t breathe” at least seven times. He vomited and lost and regained consciousness. The officers claimed that McClain, who was 5ft 7in and 140lbs , had “incredible strength” and falsely alleged he was “on something”. Paramedics who arrived injected him with 500mg of ketamine, a sedative. McClain then suffered a heart attack and never awoke.

McClain’s final words included pleas to the officers, saying: “I’m so sorry. I have no gun. I don’t do that stuff. I don’t do any fighting … I don’t even kill flies! I don’t eat meat … I respect all life … Forgive me! All I was trying to do was become better.”

In the immediate aftermath, local officials claimed his cause of death could not be determined and that no charges would be filed, but after significant backlash, the coroner released a revised autopsy with the cause of death listed as “complications of ketamine administration following forcible restraint”. An independent investigation also determined police had no legal basis to stop McClain.

Woodyard took the stand in his trial and said he put McClain in a neck hold because he feared for his life.”

Maybe Woodyard shouldn’t be a police officer if he is so afraid.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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youthathletics
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by youthathletics »

A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
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cradleandshoot
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by cradleandshoot »

a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:35 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:23 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:26 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:49 am So nobody wants to discuss how to prevent these well organized smash and grab robberies? Maybe when retail stores keep shutting or people get fed up with toothpaste being kept in locked display cases there will be a tipping point? When will they start hunting these thieves down like rabid dogs and prosecuting them as domestic terrorists? That is what they are after all. The government did it to the Jan.6 domestic terrorists. The danger from this new group of domestic terrorists is equally as dangerous. The government should consider prosecuting these crimes as a felony. 20 years in federal prison should get the message across...don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Unless of course some of you folks are comfortable living with this particular brand of domestic terrorism ? :roll:
1. Stop cutting taxes, and invest in American cities and rural America. Return to Clinton era effective tax rates. Trickledown didn't work
2. Move to a European style of education: free college and trade schools. Invest in our people
3. Move to a European style of single payer health care. What we're doing sucks, across the board.

There you go. Do that. Our country is falling apart because we stopped investing in America, and instead, cut taxes and played global cop.
Hard for me to disagree with you so vehemently. America is getting more effed up because a new and younger generation of criminals understand they have immunity from prosecution. When you can pistol whip a person and steal their car and then be given a f***ing appearance ticket when caught because your 14 years old. 😡If you wanna do a big boy crime then your ass should be sent to a big boy prison so you can learn what happens when you act like a big boy criminal
If that’s the real problem—-we aren’t jailing enough people—-why is our incarceration rate about 10 times higher than EU nations…yet this still happens? I’m suggesting, maybe that’s not the real problem. And you have to catch them to throw them in jail.

What are EU nations doing that we aren’t, cradle?
I'm focused on a very specific criminal activity. In NYS the powers that be are giving under 16 old alleged criminals every benefit of the doubt. Short of planting an axe in the back of someones head if your under 16 you get slap on the wrist and an appearance ticket. That is what these yutes figured out very quickly. A tik tok video of how to steal KIA and HYUNDIA vehicles created a perfect storm for young wanna be future Attica inmates to hone their craft with no consequence or repercussions. A serious question directed at you a Fan. So who compensates the victims of these juvenile delinquents? The person whose KIA was stolen and crashed then totaled has to pay for it with money they don't have. An odd fact is these KIA owners are not wealthy people. They just wanted a reliable, safe and inexpensive vehicle. I don't know if this new trend in juvenile criminal behavior bothers you at all? These yutes understand it perfectly. I'm gonna back track a bit my man. Who compensates the owner whose car was totaled and other damage that totals 1000s of dollars? The culprit knows he/she will never be held accountable.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
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MDlaxfan76
Posts: 25945
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:03 am
a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:35 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:23 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:26 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:49 am So nobody wants to discuss how to prevent these well organized smash and grab robberies? Maybe when retail stores keep shutting or people get fed up with toothpaste being kept in locked display cases there will be a tipping point? When will they start hunting these thieves down like rabid dogs and prosecuting them as domestic terrorists? That is what they are after all. The government did it to the Jan.6 domestic terrorists. The danger from this new group of domestic terrorists is equally as dangerous. The government should consider prosecuting these crimes as a felony. 20 years in federal prison should get the message across...don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Unless of course some of you folks are comfortable living with this particular brand of domestic terrorism ? :roll:
1. Stop cutting taxes, and invest in American cities and rural America. Return to Clinton era effective tax rates. Trickledown didn't work
2. Move to a European style of education: free college and trade schools. Invest in our people
3. Move to a European style of single payer health care. What we're doing sucks, across the board.

There you go. Do that. Our country is falling apart because we stopped investing in America, and instead, cut taxes and played global cop.
Hard for me to disagree with you so vehemently. America is getting more effed up because a new and younger generation of criminals understand they have immunity from prosecution. When you can pistol whip a person and steal their car and then be given a f***ing appearance ticket when caught because your 14 years old. 😡If you wanna do a big boy crime then your ass should be sent to a big boy prison so you can learn what happens when you act like a big boy criminal
If that’s the real problem—-we aren’t jailing enough people—-why is our incarceration rate about 10 times higher than EU nations…yet this still happens? I’m suggesting, maybe that’s not the real problem. And you have to catch them to throw them in jail.

What are EU nations doing that we aren’t, cradle?
I'm focused on a very specific criminal activity. In NYS the powers that be are giving under 16 old alleged criminals every benefit of the doubt. Short of planting an axe in the back of someones head if your under 16 you get slap on the wrist and an appearance ticket. That is what these yutes figured out very quickly. A tik tok video of how to steal KIA and HYUNDIA vehicles created a perfect storm for young wanna be future Attica inmates to hone their craft with no consequence or repercussions. A serious question directed at you a Fan. So who compensates the victims of these juvenile delinquents? The person whose KIA was stolen and crashed then totaled has to pay for it with money they don't have. An odd fact is these KIA owners are not wealthy people. They just wanted a reliable, safe and inexpensive vehicle. I don't know if this new trend in juvenile criminal behavior bothers you at all? These yutes understand it perfectly. I'm gonna back track a bit my man. Who compensates the owner whose car was totaled and other damage that totals 1000s of dollars? The culprit knows he/she will never be held accountable.
Your Governor has a point of view on this specific issue: https://www.governor.ny.gov/programs/ta ... -car-theft

as does NYC Mayor : https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor ... rk-city#/0

doesn't sound like "immunity" to me...

Do you think that European countries are more harsh on juvenile car theft than the US, or New York?
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cradleandshoot
Posts: 14043
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Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by cradleandshoot »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:29 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:03 am
a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:35 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:23 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:26 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:49 am So nobody wants to discuss how to prevent these well organized smash and grab robberies? Maybe when retail stores keep shutting or people get fed up with toothpaste being kept in locked display cases there will be a tipping point? When will they start hunting these thieves down like rabid dogs and prosecuting them as domestic terrorists? That is what they are after all. The government did it to the Jan.6 domestic terrorists. The danger from this new group of domestic terrorists is equally as dangerous. The government should consider prosecuting these crimes as a felony. 20 years in federal prison should get the message across...don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Unless of course some of you folks are comfortable living with this particular brand of domestic terrorism ? :roll:
1. Stop cutting taxes, and invest in American cities and rural America. Return to Clinton era effective tax rates. Trickledown didn't work
2. Move to a European style of education: free college and trade schools. Invest in our people
3. Move to a European style of single payer health care. What we're doing sucks, across the board.

There you go. Do that. Our country is falling apart because we stopped investing in America, and instead, cut taxes and played global cop.
Hard for me to disagree with you so vehemently. America is getting more effed up because a new and younger generation of criminals understand they have immunity from prosecution. When you can pistol whip a person and steal their car and then be given a f***ing appearance ticket when caught because your 14 years old. 😡If you wanna do a big boy crime then your ass should be sent to a big boy prison so you can learn what happens when you act like a big boy criminal
If that’s the real problem—-we aren’t jailing enough people—-why is our incarceration rate about 10 times higher than EU nations…yet this still happens? I’m suggesting, maybe that’s not the real problem. And you have to catch them to throw them in jail.

What are EU nations doing that we aren’t, cradle?
I'm focused on a very specific criminal activity. In NYS the powers that be are giving under 16 old alleged criminals every benefit of the doubt. Short of planting an axe in the back of someones head if your under 16 you get slap on the wrist and an appearance ticket. That is what these yutes figured out very quickly. A tik tok video of how to steal KIA and HYUNDIA vehicles created a perfect storm for young wanna be future Attica inmates to hone their craft with no consequence or repercussions. A serious question directed at you a Fan. So who compensates the victims of these juvenile delinquents? The person whose KIA was stolen and crashed then totaled has to pay for it with money they don't have. An odd fact is these KIA owners are not wealthy people. They just wanted a reliable, safe and inexpensive vehicle. I don't know if this new trend in juvenile criminal behavior bothers you at all? These yutes understand it perfectly. I'm gonna back track a bit my man. Who compensates the owner whose car was totaled and other damage that totals 1000s of dollars? The culprit knows he/she will never be held accountable.
Your Governor has a point of view on this specific issue: https://www.governor.ny.gov/programs/ta ... -car-theft

as does NYC Mayor : https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor ... rk-city#/0

doesn't sound like "immunity" to me...

Do you think that European countries are more harsh on juvenile car theft than the US, or New York?
So who compensates the innocent people victimized by these thefts??? These are people who work hard and live paycheck to paycheck. They can't afford the thousands of dollars these joyrides are costing them. Who pays them back???? Do you even give a chit?? I doubt you have to drive a KIA now so you??? Wait... I forgot, you live in one of those elite rich person enclaves that you don't even have to lock your front door at night. You ain't gotta worry about your KIA being hotwired in front of your house. You do understand these same young juvenile delinquents have been arrested over and over. You do understand that by law the victims don't even know the suspects name. You do understand the victims will never be compensated for their losses. You understand that out of respect for their youth and to protect their anonymity they will never have to pay restitution for the damage they caused. That tab gets handed over to the victim of the crime, not that that is a problem to you, you're so safe you don't even have to lock your doors at night, unlike 99.99% of the rest of America. Yet you can still relate??? :roll: :roll: :roll:
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 25945
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:55 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:29 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:03 am
a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:35 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:23 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:26 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:49 am So nobody wants to discuss how to prevent these well organized smash and grab robberies? Maybe when retail stores keep shutting or people get fed up with toothpaste being kept in locked display cases there will be a tipping point? When will they start hunting these thieves down like rabid dogs and prosecuting them as domestic terrorists? That is what they are after all. The government did it to the Jan.6 domestic terrorists. The danger from this new group of domestic terrorists is equally as dangerous. The government should consider prosecuting these crimes as a felony. 20 years in federal prison should get the message across...don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Unless of course some of you folks are comfortable living with this particular brand of domestic terrorism ? :roll:
1. Stop cutting taxes, and invest in American cities and rural America. Return to Clinton era effective tax rates. Trickledown didn't work
2. Move to a European style of education: free college and trade schools. Invest in our people
3. Move to a European style of single payer health care. What we're doing sucks, across the board.

There you go. Do that. Our country is falling apart because we stopped investing in America, and instead, cut taxes and played global cop.
Hard for me to disagree with you so vehemently. America is getting more effed up because a new and younger generation of criminals understand they have immunity from prosecution. When you can pistol whip a person and steal their car and then be given a f***ing appearance ticket when caught because your 14 years old. 😡If you wanna do a big boy crime then your ass should be sent to a big boy prison so you can learn what happens when you act like a big boy criminal
If that’s the real problem—-we aren’t jailing enough people—-why is our incarceration rate about 10 times higher than EU nations…yet this still happens? I’m suggesting, maybe that’s not the real problem. And you have to catch them to throw them in jail.

What are EU nations doing that we aren’t, cradle?
I'm focused on a very specific criminal activity. In NYS the powers that be are giving under 16 old alleged criminals every benefit of the doubt. Short of planting an axe in the back of someones head if your under 16 you get slap on the wrist and an appearance ticket. That is what these yutes figured out very quickly. A tik tok video of how to steal KIA and HYUNDIA vehicles created a perfect storm for young wanna be future Attica inmates to hone their craft with no consequence or repercussions. A serious question directed at you a Fan. So who compensates the victims of these juvenile delinquents? The person whose KIA was stolen and crashed then totaled has to pay for it with money they don't have. An odd fact is these KIA owners are not wealthy people. They just wanted a reliable, safe and inexpensive vehicle. I don't know if this new trend in juvenile criminal behavior bothers you at all? These yutes understand it perfectly. I'm gonna back track a bit my man. Who compensates the owner whose car was totaled and other damage that totals 1000s of dollars? The culprit knows he/she will never be held accountable.
Your Governor has a point of view on this specific issue: https://www.governor.ny.gov/programs/ta ... -car-theft

as does NYC Mayor : https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor ... rk-city#/0

doesn't sound like "immunity" to me...

Do you think that European countries are more harsh on juvenile car theft than the US, or New York?
So who compensates the innocent people victimized by these thefts??? These are people who work hard and live paycheck to paycheck. They can't afford the thousands of dollars these joyrides are costing them. Who pays them back???? Do you even give a chit?? I doubt you have to drive a KIA now so you??? Wait... I forgot, you live in one of those elite rich person enclaves that you don't even have to lock your front door at night. You ain't gotta worry about your KIA being hotwired in front of your house. You do understand these same young juvenile delinquents have been arrested over and over. You do understand that by law the victims don't even know the suspects name. You do understand the victims will never be compensated for their losses. You understand that out of respect for their youth and to protect their anonymity they will never have to pay restitution for the damage they caused. That tab gets handed over to the victim of the crime, not that that is a problem to you, you're so safe you don't even have to lock your doors at night, unlike 99.99% of the rest of America. Yet you can still relate??? :roll: :roll: :roll:
I have car insurance cradle, don't you?

Of course it's a serious problem, as both of the links I provided make clear is the view of your Governor and the NYC Mayor.

I asked a serious question, cradle, as to whether you think European countries treat juvenile car theft more harshly than we do in the US, or New York? That was the topic being discussed.

But you instead decide to attack me personally. Sigh.

ok, yes, in the mid 80's when we lived in the transitional neighborhood of the South End of Boston, 5 blocks from Roxbury, and in which our block was half burned out shells and the rest between us and Mass Ave (demarcation to Roxbury), we had a 1980 Toyota Corolla I'd bought as we left college. No garage, had to park on the street. That car was broken into 3 times, windows smashed, door lock broken...the last one was a smashed in window, despite all the thieves needed to do was open the door...stole the AM radio...I can't imagine they got more than 5 dollars for it...we called it "thieves in training", didn't bother to open the door...pain in the butt and the police certainly weren't particularly exercised about it...

We had a purse snatch and grab one evening as we walked home from dinner, guy put his knee into my wife's back and took off...I'd been opening the door for my wife and her mother who was visiting...dummy, I took after him in my hard shoes from work, him in sneakers...chased and chased, down an alley! (what was I going to do if he turned around with a knife or gun), but I was falling behind; he eventually dropped the purse when two gay guys walking into their home blew a police whistle...police were there in one minute. I got in the police car to see if we could spot him, no luck. When they took our statements, we each had a different description of the guy (who we had passed on the sidewalk a few moments before the grab), different ethnicity, different color clothes...eyewitness testimony...

Our home was multiple times broken into. The last set was when we were out of town for a week, 4 nights in a row alarm went off and police responded. In each case, the thieves had entered from the rear, cutting the padlock, (we had the bottom 3 floors of a brownstone) and then pulled the metal gate across the back doors making it look closed. Police came to front door and found no break in then went to back. Meanwhile thieves fled out back. On fourth night, police got smart and sent one car to rear, one to front. Two guys were carrying a tv out and putting it in their trunk. Police confronted, one ran and one policeman followed, other was tackled by one cop, had him by the leg, the perp yelling something in Spanish, then the leg popped off...yes, popped off, artificial limb. Cop telling us this story was very funny, you can imagine his shock holding a leg, perp yelling even more.

On this we did prosecute, though we were never able to recover any stolen goods...law says police can't assume the perps they caught had stolen the prior two nights so no probable cause to search their apartment, garage, girlfriend's place etc...argh...drug addicts needing to feed their addiction...there was no expected restitution possible.

so, yeah, I can empathize.
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 4340
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

Speaking of punishment:

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/d ... 3-full.pdf

The defamation verdict cannot be set aside in bankruptcy...happily. Creditors hounding his seditious a** until he dies.
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 14043
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by cradleandshoot »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:37 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:55 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:29 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:03 am
a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 2:35 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 1:23 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:26 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:49 am So nobody wants to discuss how to prevent these well organized smash and grab robberies? Maybe when retail stores keep shutting or people get fed up with toothpaste being kept in locked display cases there will be a tipping point? When will they start hunting these thieves down like rabid dogs and prosecuting them as domestic terrorists? That is what they are after all. The government did it to the Jan.6 domestic terrorists. The danger from this new group of domestic terrorists is equally as dangerous. The government should consider prosecuting these crimes as a felony. 20 years in federal prison should get the message across...don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Unless of course some of you folks are comfortable living with this particular brand of domestic terrorism ? :roll:
1. Stop cutting taxes, and invest in American cities and rural America. Return to Clinton era effective tax rates. Trickledown didn't work
2. Move to a European style of education: free college and trade schools. Invest in our people
3. Move to a European style of single payer health care. What we're doing sucks, across the board.

There you go. Do that. Our country is falling apart because we stopped investing in America, and instead, cut taxes and played global cop.
Hard for me to disagree with you so vehemently. America is getting more effed up because a new and younger generation of criminals understand they have immunity from prosecution. When you can pistol whip a person and steal their car and then be given a f***ing appearance ticket when caught because your 14 years old. 😡If you wanna do a big boy crime then your ass should be sent to a big boy prison so you can learn what happens when you act like a big boy criminal
If that’s the real problem—-we aren’t jailing enough people—-why is our incarceration rate about 10 times higher than EU nations…yet this still happens? I’m suggesting, maybe that’s not the real problem. And you have to catch them to throw them in jail.

What are EU nations doing that we aren’t, cradle?
I'm focused on a very specific criminal activity. In NYS the powers that be are giving under 16 old alleged criminals every benefit of the doubt. Short of planting an axe in the back of someones head if your under 16 you get slap on the wrist and an appearance ticket. That is what these yutes figured out very quickly. A tik tok video of how to steal KIA and HYUNDIA vehicles created a perfect storm for young wanna be future Attica inmates to hone their craft with no consequence or repercussions. A serious question directed at you a Fan. So who compensates the victims of these juvenile delinquents? The person whose KIA was stolen and crashed then totaled has to pay for it with money they don't have. An odd fact is these KIA owners are not wealthy people. They just wanted a reliable, safe and inexpensive vehicle. I don't know if this new trend in juvenile criminal behavior bothers you at all? These yutes understand it perfectly. I'm gonna back track a bit my man. Who compensates the owner whose car was totaled and other damage that totals 1000s of dollars? The culprit knows he/she will never be held accountable.
Your Governor has a point of view on this specific issue: https://www.governor.ny.gov/programs/ta ... -car-theft

as does NYC Mayor : https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor ... rk-city#/0

doesn't sound like "immunity" to me...

Do you think that European countries are more harsh on juvenile car theft than the US, or New York?
So who compensates the innocent people victimized by these thefts??? These are people who work hard and live paycheck to paycheck. They can't afford the thousands of dollars these joyrides are costing them. Who pays them back???? Do you even give a chit?? I doubt you have to drive a KIA now so you??? Wait... I forgot, you live in one of those elite rich person enclaves that you don't even have to lock your front door at night. You ain't gotta worry about your KIA being hotwired in front of your house. You do understand these same young juvenile delinquents have been arrested over and over. You do understand that by law the victims don't even know the suspects name. You do understand the victims will never be compensated for their losses. You understand that out of respect for their youth and to protect their anonymity they will never have to pay restitution for the damage they caused. That tab gets handed over to the victim of the crime, not that that is a problem to you, you're so safe you don't even have to lock your doors at night, unlike 99.99% of the rest of America. Yet you can still relate??? :roll: :roll: :roll:
I have car insurance cradle, don't you?

Of course it's a serious problem, as both of the links I provided make clear is the view of your Governor and the NYC Mayor.

I asked a serious question, cradle, as to whether you think European countries treat juvenile car theft more harshly than we do in the US, or New York? That was the topic being discussed.

But you instead decide to attack me personally. Sigh.

ok, yes, in the mid 80's when we lived in the transitional neighborhood of the South End of Boston, 5 blocks from Roxbury, and in which our block was half burned out shells and the rest between us and Mass Ave (demarcation to Roxbury), we had a 1980 Toyota Corolla I'd bought as we left college. No garage, had to park on the street. That car was broken into 3 times, windows smashed, door lock broken...the last one was a smashed in window, despite all the thieves needed to do was open the door...stole the AM radio...I can't imagine they got more than 5 dollars for it...we called it "thieves in training", didn't bother to open the door...pain in the butt and the police certainly weren't particularly exercised about it...

We had a purse snatch and grab one evening as we walked home from dinner, guy put his knee into my wife's back and took off...I'd been opening the door for my wife and her mother who was visiting...dummy, I took after him in my hard shoes from work, him in sneakers...chased and chased, down an alley! (what was I going to do if he turned around with a knife or gun), but I was falling behind; he eventually dropped the purse when two gay guys walking into their home blew a police whistle...police were there in one minute. I got in the police car to see if we could spot him, no luck. When they took our statements, we each had a different description of the guy (who we had passed on the sidewalk a few moments before the grab), different ethnicity, different color clothes...eyewitness testimony...

Our home was multiple times broken into. The last set was when we were out of town for a week, 4 nights in a row alarm went off and police responded. In each case, the thieves had entered from the rear, cutting the padlock, (we had the bottom 3 floors of a brownstone) and then pulled the metal gate across the back doors making it look closed. Police came to front door and found no break in then went to back. Meanwhile thieves fled out back. On fourth night, police got smart and sent one car to rear, one to front. Two guys were carrying a tv out and putting it in their trunk. Police confronted, one ran and one policeman followed, other was tackled by one cop, had him by the leg, the perp yelling something in Spanish, then the leg popped off...yes, popped off, artificial limb. Cop telling us this story was very funny, you can imagine his shock holding a leg, perp yelling even more.

On this we did prosecute, though we were never able to recover any stolen goods...law says police can't assume the perps they caught had stolen the prior two nights so no probable cause to search their apartment, garage, girlfriend's place etc...argh...drug addicts needing to feed their addiction...there was no expected restitution possible.

so, yeah, I can empathize.
The point sailed right over your head scooter. These people's car insurance won't cover a tiny fraction of the damage done to their cars. They are effed out of thousands of dollars, they lose their cars until repairs are made the yutes who steal these cars do so as part of a game. Different KIA boys from different neighborhoods have a friendly competition as to who can steal more cars. Your memory fails you old sod. I'm not taking a personal attack at you. You boldly stated awhile back, I believe on the gun thread that you felt safe enough in your neighborhood that you felt no need to lock your door at night. I believe you even mentioned a barking dog in the house nearby. Do you leave your doors unlocked at night?? I don't give a chit about crimes committed against you 40 years ago, let's fast forward to what is happening today. 40 years ago I was robbed and stabbed in my leg. I'm lucky, today the same thieves might have just shot me in the head. You ever been robbed and stabbed old boy? The experience always stays with you. Sorry I digress, the discussion was about innocent people victimized by young teenagers who will never be held accountable for the crimes they commit. In your simplistic mind your so naive to think their auto insurance will cover their financial loss or compensate them for the inconvenience and time lost at work. You can't ignore what happens to their auto rates once you make a claim. You've been living in wonder land for too long old sod. Why don't you take a bike ride into realville someday. You know those neighborhoods where people have to lock their front doors at night :roll:
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
njbill
Posts: 6887
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:35 am

Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by njbill »

sc, do you know if the bankruptcy stay applies to the plaintiffs’ attempts at execution? My guess is that it does.
Does that prevent them from registering their judgments in New York? If they were able to move very quickly, maybe they have already done that. Don’t know if under New York law a judgment creditor must file additional paperwork to perfect a lien on real property after the judgment is registered. If so, the bankruptcy might prevent the plaintiffs from doing that.

Not a completely applicable analogy to be sure, but a fully secured creditor, such as a mortgagee, cannot proceed with foreclosure if its mortgagee files for bankruptcy without bankruptcy court approval (pretty sure about that).

One thing this filing should do is smoke out Rudy’s actual assets.

Not sure what New York law says about his ability to protect his principal residence. I think in some states (Florida?) a debtor can protect their principal residence, even if it’s a mansion.

His petition says he owes about $1 million in taxes to the IRS and New York. My understanding is the taxes will get paid first.

Will be interesting to see how Rudy treats the DC judgment creditors in his chapter 11 plan. One would think they are going to see at least some cash out of the bankruptcy proceeding.

And, yes, if the judgment is not dischargeable, it will live on after the bankruptcy. But what realistic possibility is there that Rudy will be accumulating substantial assets in the time he has left above ground?
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 4340
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: Crime and Punishment

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

njbill wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:49 pm sc, do you know if the bankruptcy stay applies to the plaintiffs’ attempts at execution? My guess is that it does.
Does that prevent them from registering their judgments in New York? If they were able to move very quickly, maybe they have already done that. Don’t know if under New York law a judgment creditor must file additional paperwork to perfect a lien on real property after the judgment is registered. If so, the bankruptcy might prevent the plaintiffs from doing that.

Not a completely applicable analogy to be sure, but a fully secured creditor, such as a mortgagee, cannot proceed with foreclosure if its mortgagee files for bankruptcy without bankruptcy court approval (pretty sure about that).

One thing this filing should do is smoke out Rudy’s actual assets.

Not sure what New York law says about his ability to protect his principal residence. I think in some states (Florida?) a debtor can protect their principal residence, even if it’s a mansion.

His petition says he owes about $1 million in taxes to the IRS and New York. My understanding is the taxes will get paid first.

Will be interesting to see how Rudy treats the DC judgment creditors in his chapter 11 plan. One would think they are going to see at least some cash out of the bankruptcy proceeding.

And, yes, if the judgment is not dischargeable, it will live on after the bankruptcy. But what realistic possibility is there that Rudy will be accumulating substantial assets in the time he has left above ground?
Probably. The debt will be non-dischargeable. But plaintiffs won’t be able to collect during his case.
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