NCAA reorg imminent

[Typical Lax Dad]

NCAA just approved financial aid legislation changes yesterday which will allow hobart to offer athletic aid.

I had no idea.....they've been playing D1 all this time with no scholarships? Huh.

Yeah they’ve appealed numerous times since the change in 1995 and been denied

I can't believe I didn't know this. Thanks for sharing this.

This is a big deal for Hobart! Congratulations!

Afan,

This is the release our athletics dept out out a couple of days ago about this topic

NCAA votes to allow Hobart lacrosse to give athletic scholarships
1/22/2022 12:05:00 PM

By: Ken DeBolt
Story Links
INDIANAPOLIS—Since Hobart lacrosse moved to Division I in 1995, the Statesmen have been prohibited from offering athletic scholarships by NCAA legislation. This morning, at the NCAA Convention, that changed.

The Liberty League proposal to permit multidivisional institutions to award athletics aid to their Division I student-athletes passed by an overwhelming majority, 388-18. Prior to today's vote, Hobart lacrosse was required to follow all Division I rules except those regarding financial aid. In that case, the program had to follow the stricter, Division III rules which prohibit scholarships based on athletic ability.

"One of the fundamental lessons delivered through sports is the concept of fair play; today's vote puts Hobart lacrosse on even ground when it comes to recruiting," says Hobart and William Smith Colleges President Joyce Jacobsen. "We know the Colleges offer amazing educational opportunities, an elite faculty, top-notch facilities, and dedicated coaches and now we will also be able to offer Division I athletes the same financial aid opportunities that other Division I programs can."

Through closely coordinated efforts by the coaching staff, NCAA compliance staff and financial aid staff, Hobart and William Smith will immediately begin working on implementation and timing of awarding its first athletic scholarship.

"We are excited for the opportunity to offer athletic scholarships to our Division I student-athletes," says Brian Miller, HWS associate vice president and director of athletics and recreation. "We were supportive of this proposal, and today's vote by the Division III membership will help level the playing field for Hobart lacrosse."




There are 10 institutions which compete primarily in Division III, but also sponsor at least one Division I sport. In men's lacrosse, there are two, Hobart and Johns Hopkins University. The Blue Jays remained in Division I even after the creation of Division III men's lacrosse in 1980, and are able to give athletic scholarships under a grandfather clause. Hobart, which reclassified to Division I in 1995 after winning 13 of the first 15 Division III national championships, was not covered under that clause.

In addition to Hobart lacrosse, the legislative change also impacts Franklin & Marshall College (wrestling), Massachusetts Institute of Technology (rowing), Rochester Institute of Technology (men's and women's hockey) and Union College (men's and women's hockey).

In 22 seasons in Division I, Hobart lacrosse has posted a record of 164-193. The Statesmen are 56-50 over the past eight seasons under the leadership of Head Coach Greg Raymond. In the program's Division I era, he has led Hobart to five of the program's seven winning seasons.

The 120th Hobart lacrosse season officially begins Feb. 12, when the Statesmen host Canisius. The Statesmen begin their preseason scrimmage schedule this afternoon with a scrimmage against Michigan. The scrimmage will be played in the Poole Family Sports Dome and spectators will be limited to those already on the teams' pass list.

Limited spectators??!! When did Hobart join the Ivy League?! Draconian….

Oh yeah! Our prior president worked for the diet clinton White House then ran the peace corps before coming to Geneva. They hired a alum from UT to replace him and the professors ran the guy out within a year because he had like professional expectations and standards and wanted to hold faculty accountable and stuff.

Seriously though, the Dome/bubble doesn’t really have seating. It’s used for preseason and maybe first 1-3 games since it was erected a couple of years ago (and the roof collapsed a year after built because we selected the lowest cost GC). More bummed they got rid of the grass at Boswell/Urick field which used to get watered down nicely before lacrosse games-maybe you recall from way back to how slow that grass could be. Balls stayed in bounds a lot that would roll out elsewhere.

But don’t you worry, we all are well practiced in the art of throwing trout at opponents. Don’t need many with that skill set to effectively host opponents.

Email came out today to start fundraising as I guess this dough won’t come from the general endowment but a new athletics fund being set up which was never needed prior to this ruling. Basically need to get around $10-$15mm to endow the 12.5x using the 5% expenditure rule.

Villanova has managed with 6. Hobart will be fine.

[Farfromgeneva]

NCAA just approved financial aid legislation changes yesterday which will allow hobart to offer athletic aid.

I had no idea.....they've been playing D1 all this time with no scholarships? Huh.

Yeah they’ve appealed numerous times since the change in 1995 and been denied

I can't believe I didn't know this. Thanks for sharing this.

This is a big deal for Hobart! Congratulations!

Afan,

This is the release our athletics dept out out a couple of days ago about this topic

NCAA votes to allow Hobart lacrosse to give athletic scholarships
1/22/2022 12:05:00 PM

By: Ken DeBolt
Story Links
INDIANAPOLIS—Since Hobart lacrosse moved to Division I in 1995, the Statesmen have been prohibited from offering athletic scholarships by NCAA legislation. This morning, at the NCAA Convention, that changed.

The Liberty League proposal to permit multidivisional institutions to award athletics aid to their Division I student-athletes passed by an overwhelming majority, 388-18. Prior to today's vote, Hobart lacrosse was required to follow all Division I rules except those regarding financial aid. In that case, the program had to follow the stricter, Division III rules which prohibit scholarships based on athletic ability.

"One of the fundamental lessons delivered through sports is the concept of fair play; today's vote puts Hobart lacrosse on even ground when it comes to recruiting," says Hobart and William Smith Colleges President Joyce Jacobsen. "We know the Colleges offer amazing educational opportunities, an elite faculty, top-notch facilities, and dedicated coaches and now we will also be able to offer Division I athletes the same financial aid opportunities that other Division I programs can."

Through closely coordinated efforts by the coaching staff, NCAA compliance staff and financial aid staff, Hobart and William Smith will immediately begin working on implementation and timing of awarding its first athletic scholarship.

"We are excited for the opportunity to offer athletic scholarships to our Division I student-athletes," says Brian Miller, HWS associate vice president and director of athletics and recreation. "We were supportive of this proposal, and today's vote by the Division III membership will help level the playing field for Hobart lacrosse."




There are 10 institutions which compete primarily in Division III, but also sponsor at least one Division I sport. In men's lacrosse, there are two, Hobart and Johns Hopkins University. The Blue Jays remained in Division I even after the creation of Division III men's lacrosse in 1980, and are able to give athletic scholarships under a grandfather clause. Hobart, which reclassified to Division I in 1995 after winning 13 of the first 15 Division III national championships, was not covered under that clause.

In addition to Hobart lacrosse, the legislative change also impacts Franklin & Marshall College (wrestling), Massachusetts Institute of Technology (rowing), Rochester Institute of Technology (men's and women's hockey) and Union College (men's and women's hockey).

In 22 seasons in Division I, Hobart lacrosse has posted a record of 164-193. The Statesmen are 56-50 over the past eight seasons under the leadership of Head Coach Greg Raymond. In the program's Division I era, he has led Hobart to five of the program's seven winning seasons.

The 120th Hobart lacrosse season officially begins Feb. 12, when the Statesmen host Canisius. The Statesmen begin their preseason scrimmage schedule this afternoon with a scrimmage against Michigan. The scrimmage will be played in the Poole Family Sports Dome and spectators will be limited to those already on the teams' pass list.

Limited spectators??!! When did Hobart join the Ivy League?! Draconian….

Oh yeah! Our prior president worked for the diet clinton White House then ran the peace corps before coming to Geneva. They hired a alum from UT to replace him and the professors ran the guy out within a year because he had like professional expectations and standards and wanted to hold faculty accountable and stuff.

Seriously though, the Dome/bubble doesn’t really have seating. It’s used for preseason and maybe first 1-3 games since it was erected a couple of years ago (and the roof collapsed a year after built because we selected the lowest cost GC). More bummed they got rid of the grass at Boswell/Urick field which used to get watered down nicely before lacrosse games-maybe you recall from way back to how slow that grass could be. Balls stayed in bounds a lot that would roll out elsewhere.

But don’t you worry, we all are well practiced in the art of throwing trout at opponents. Don’t need many with that skill set to effectively host opponents.

Email came out today to start fundraising as I guess this dough won’t come from the general endowment but a new athletics fund being set up which was never needed prior to this ruling. Basically need to get around $10-$15mm to endow the 12.5x using the 5% expenditure rule.

Villanova has managed with 6. Hobart will be fine.

I would’ve paid for Ben Reeves family to live at Atlantis for four years if that would’ve kept him committed to Bart.

[Can Opener]

NCAA just approved financial aid legislation changes yesterday which will allow hobart to offer athletic aid.

I had no idea.....they've been playing D1 all this time with no scholarships? Huh.

Yup.. the NC$$ has been sticking it to Hobart (for lacrosse) since we moved to D I. It will be interesting to see how it works. Being able to compete for talent on a level field is a HUGE plus. This ruling helps RIT & Union for men's ice hockey.

D3 schools “playing up” is quite prevalent in ski racing. The Williams, Bates, Colby, St. Mike’s, St. Lawrence, Plymouth State and Middlebury ski teams all compete in NCAA D1. Hard to imagine the NESCACs will allow scholarships, however.

[Farfromgeneva]

I think skiing is like sailing where it’s all mashed together. We compete w like GTown in sailing but it’s not officially D1 or mixed. The Stanford sailing coach who was selling admission slots to affluent folks (John Vandermoer) was a FR buddy of mine at Hobart and a very good sailor himself.

The following are schools that field NCAA affiliated ski teams. The NCAA holds a single, all-division championship for men, and a single, all-division championship for women.

There are three NCAA affiliated ski conferences: the Central Collegiate Ski Association, Eastern Intercollegiate Ski Association and Rocky Mountain Intercollegiate Ski Association. The conferences consist of Division I, Division II, Division III,[1][2] and some non-NCAA affiliated teams which compete as guests. Some teams compete in the United States Collegiate Ski and Snowboard Association[3] which is not affiliated with the NCAA.

There are 7 conferences with 200 teams competing in college sailing. The conferences within ICSA schedule and administer regattas within their established regions:[17]

Middle Atlantic Intercollegiate Sailing Association (MAISA)
Midwest Collegiate Sailing Association (MCSA)
New England Intercollegiate Sailing Association (NEISA)
Northwest Intercollegiate Sailing Association (NWICSA)
Pacific Coast Collegiate Sailing Conference (PCCSC)
South Atlantic Intercollegiate Sailing Association (SAISA)
Southeastern Intercollegiate Sailing Association (SEISA)

Each conference is supervised by a Graduate Secretary and an Executive Committee, which comprises both graduate and undergraduate students. Both the Graduate Secretary and the Executive Committee are elected by representatives from each school in the conference. Each conference conducts local and intersectional regattas and holds district championships in both the fall and the spring.

[HooDat]

Come on; don't tell me that HooDat's thought experiment was not fun.

I thought so!

oooooh. Got it. I gotta say, I have NO IDEA how the Schools sort all this out. Only thing that makes sense to me: do nothing. Let the NIL do its thing, and go right about with their business. Status quo is quite lucrative for everyone involved, as far as I can see.

Anything other that is too complicated for this guy to envision.

I would have thought so too, but someone in the thread linked to an article implied to me that the "haves" were grumbling about having to share money with the "have nots" and so more changes are expected. Alumni are going to want a return on their NIL investments and you can't have teams like Cincinnati messing that up...!

[Farfromgeneva]

I’m fascinated on how the pro forma economics of a school split looks and who eats the infrastructure capex that still has a long way to go to be paid for.

[FMUBart]

Re: Hobart's Boswell Grass Field...the field was never watered down, just wasn't mowed. The best story was Richie Moran coming out for warm ups and demanding the field be cut or he wouldn't play the game. In order to placate Richie, Coach U had the grounds crew "mow" the field--except they were instructed to not put the blades down! Hobart always considered themselves a physical, hard-working team that excelled on getting the ball off the ground. The grass corners of Boswell were shin-high, while the middle of the field was often cement like dirt(the "Boswell bounce")!
Another story was: during a game vs UMass, a ball was loose in the corner...well, suddenly there were 3 balls in 3 different players sticks--refs killed the play and ended up doing a faceoff in the corner(yes, before the AP rule, f/o's could be done anywhere).

And yes, Richie--among others-- ducked his fair share of lake trout!!

[Farfromgeneva]

Re: Hobart's Boswell Grass Field...the field was never watered down, just wasn't mowed. The best story was Richie Moran coming out for warm ups and demanding the field be cut or he wouldn't play the game. In order to placate Richie, Coach U had the grounds crew "mow" the field--except they were instructed to not put the blades down! Hobart always considered themselves a physical, hard-working team that excelled on getting the ball off the ground. The grass corners of Boswell were shin-high, while the middle of the field was often cement like dirt(the "Boswell bounce")!
Another story was: during a game vs UMass, a ball was loose in the corner...well, suddenly there were 3 balls in 3 different players sticks--refs killed the play and ended up doing a faceoff in the corner(yes, before the AP rule, f/o's could be done anywhere).

And yes, Richie--among others-- ducked his fair share of lake trout!!

Try playing a frozen late Oct/early Nov football game on it!

Ever sled down the hill from McCormick before the built the hillside all up?

But those were the days. When our SID was a batboy for the Geneva Cubs and Pete Harnish was pitching for the Newark Orioles…

[a fan]

I’m fascinated on how the pro forma economics of a school split looks and who eats the infrastructure capex that still has a long way to go to be paid for.

+1

[HooDat]

I’m fascinated on how the pro forma economics of a school split looks and who eats the infrastructure capex that still has a long way to go to be paid for.

+1

Ultimately the answer is the same: alumni and/or ESPN.

But I will let you decide which pays for the infrastructure and which one is paying for the coaches exorbitant salaries.

[Farfromgeneva]

I’m fascinated on how the pro forma economics of a school split looks and who eats the infrastructure capex that still has a long way to go to be paid for.

+1

Ultimately the answer is the same: alumni and/or ESPN.

But I will let you decide which pays for the infrastructure and which one is paying for the coaches exorbitant salaries.

Guess to a certain extent alumni = taxpayer. Thinking of like Ga State or Appalachian State who’ve move to FBS more recently and invested heavily. Maybe some of those alum dollars wouldn’t otherwise flow to the school but at least some portion likely would’ve and will have to be replaced by state coffers I would bet. Not that hard to make the case that even if they belong separately that there is some responsibility of the football first schools to the rest even if there wasn’t some written formal commitment and you could argue NIL is akin to a Material Adverse Change.

[HooDat]

If any of this ends up with the "haves" creating a separate "semi-pro" league, teams that were just breaking in, or overspending on the hope of NCAA profit sharing are going to be up the creek as it were.

[HooDat]

But each school is technically on their own.

Can of worms on that front.

But if you are Bama, or Georgia, or Texas - there is a lot of money you are giving away to Appalachian State for very little good reason.

Now the NCAA (aka what is left if the haves high-tail it for semi-pro land) holds two cards: March Madness and the "Olympic" sports.

[Farfromgeneva]

But each school is technically on their own.

Can of worms on that front.

But if you are Bama, or Georgia, or Texas - there is a lot of money you are giving away to Appalachian State for very little good reason.

Now the NCAA (aka what is left if the haves high-tail it for semi-pro land) holds two cards: March Madness and the "Olympic" sports.

I mean I always thought state schools were subsidized education for residents first and foremost. Have many many UVA friends that deny there’s any value or benefit and never was to being a state school and should just be private though I find it specious and always preferred the NY/CA model to allocating resources to their higher Ed systems. What about a Michigan or MSU who just paid out mid 9 figure settlements that surely are going to be funded in part or whole by the taxpayer complicates then leaving any other FBS state schools in that state behind. Similarly w Penn St if Pitt got left behind. Similarly w Penn St if Pitt got left behind. Texas and Florida would have similar issues.

So like UGA boning Ga State and Ga Southern (maybe even Ga Tech) seems pretty complicated. UNC/Duke leaving App behind similarly.

[HooDat]

funded in part or whole by the taxpayer complicates then leaving any other FBS state schools in that state behind

interesting point. Not sure how big this "payable" is, but the one way I could see it being solved is some kind of tax or "seller note" that let's the "haves" buy their way out by helping the state out of that hole.

[Farfromgeneva]

funded in part or whole by the taxpayer complicates then leaving any other FBS state schools in that state behind

interesting point. Not sure how big this "payable" is, but the one way I could see it being solved is some kind of tax or "seller note" that let's the "haves" buy their way out by helping the state out of that hole.

In the distressed debt world they call that a “hope note”…

It’s sort of front and center here because Ga State has invested huge in football here in Atlanta, even bought the old Braves stadium when those carpetbagging suburban money stealers moved the team to the new ballpark in the suburbs.

But imagine UCF getting left behind being one of the largest state schools in the country if UF/FSU left them behind…

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... ke-alabama

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia ... s_football

*side note: the dude who funded the first $10mm for Ga St, Parker petit is much more of a criminal than Uncle Luther ever was…

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.co ... utType=amp

[Farfromgeneva]

Bit on NIL for athletics broadly

NIL may be too big to fail

Jeff Tracy
Jeff Tracy

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Illustration of hands holding a paintbrush, hammer, and measuring tape up against the NCAA logo.
Illustration: Aïda Amer/Axios
The NCAA D-I Board of Directors on Monday updated its name, image and likeness (NIL) guidelines for the first time since NIL launched last July, specifically targeting recruiting violations by booster-led entities called "collectives."

Why it matters: The original guidelines haven't been enforced as is, and the landscape surrounding NIL has evolved so rapidly in the past 10 months that the NCAA's latest move may be too little, too late.

What they're saying: "Whether it's possible to unring the bell, it remains to be seen," Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby told SI. "Seems to me we would have been infinitely better off had we gone ahead and implemented the guardrails [from the start]."

Catch up quick: Not long after athletes signed the first wave of NIL deals last summer, groups of boosters began pooling their money and formed companies — called collectives — to facilitate NIL deals for athletes at the schools they support.

The problem? It appears many of those deals were NIL in name only, and were instead meant to induce recruits into signing with the boosters' school.
That practice has always been a recruiting violation when carried out by individual boosters; Monday's new guidelines merely expanded the definition of booster to include collectives.
State of play: The NCAA said its crackdown will be retroactive, meaning it may investigate particularly egregious violations from the past 10 months, but that its primary focus is on the future.

Yes, but: That's easier said than done, as industry consensus seems to be that pretty much any enforcement will trigger legal challenges that would be incredibly difficult for the NCAA to win.

For starters, many collectives track their deals through platforms like Opendorse, with built-in compliance checks. Plus, boosters are by definition deep-pocketed, and are also protected by various state laws, per SI.
Then there's the legal precedent from last year that paved the way for these changes, when the U.S. Supreme Court's unanimous decision for Shawne Alston said restrictions by the NCAA on student-athlete compensation would violate antitrust law.
The big picture: The NCAA's biggest fear with NIL was the likelihood of people exploiting loopholes that turned it into "pay for play," and that may be exactly what's happened.

The question now is whether the NCAA's rededication to enforcement will be enough to turn the tide.

[1766]

Very little chance that the NCAA is going to stop pay for play under the guise of NIL.

[jersey shore lax]

Owner of a business signs an advertising deal with a high school athlete, coincidently the high school kid decides to attend the business owners favorite college. I can not imagine the NCAA trying to stop that and if it went to court and they lost it totally takes the mask off of this practice.

[PizzaSnake]

funded in part or whole by the taxpayer complicates then leaving any other FBS state schools in that state behind

interesting point. Not sure how big this "payable" is, but the one way I could see it being solved is some kind of tax or "seller note" that let's the "haves" buy their way out by helping the state out of that hole.

In the distressed debt world they call that a “hope note”…

It’s sort of front and center here because Ga State has invested huge in football here in Atlanta, even bought the old Braves stadium when those carpetbagging suburban money stealers moved the team to the new ballpark in the suburbs.

But imagine UCF getting left behind being one of the largest state schools in the country if UF/FSU left them behind…

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... ke-alabama

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia ... s_football

*side note: the dude who funded the first $10mm for Ga St, Parker petit is much more of a criminal than Uncle Luther ever was…

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.co ... utType=amp

“those carpetbagging suburban money stealers”