2022 Pre Season Top 20

[boredatwork]

My point is that the AQ system eliminates teams that would likely be competitive in the tournament in favor of teams that have no shot at all. You'd like to discuss the merits of each team that I point to as being inappropriately denied a tourney bid. I think that is exactly what the NCAA should do before releasing the tourney field.

Do you think anyone who knows how to spell lacrosse would think that Piedmont (https://piedmontlions.com/sports/mens-l ... edule/2019) was even remotely more likely to make it into the 2019 final 4 than Bates, Endicott, Midd and Colby?

Your point WAS ORIGINALLY that legitimate national championship contenders, teams who could win 5 straight NCAA tournament games, were being left out which I asked for an example.

I don't think there's any argument that there are teams every year getting into the tournament through AQ's that teams not in the tournament would beat handily, no one can argue that. But you are rewarding teams for regular season success, which isn't the end of the world in my opinion

[smoova]

Your point WAS ORIGINALLY that legitimate national championship contenders, teams who could win 5 straight NCAA tournament games, were being left out which I asked for an example.

I don't think there's any argument that there are teams every year getting into the tournament through AQ's that teams not in the tournament would beat handily, no one can argue that. But you are rewarding teams for regular season success, which isn't the end of the world in my opinion

And you don't like my examples. I'll stand by them - particularly Middlebury, which upon further review, took NESCAC champion Tufts to OT in the NESCAC tourney. Tufts beat Williams in OT in the next game/championship. Williams then made the final 4 ...

[Edited to add: Interestingly, a similar thing happened to Middlebury in 2017 - lost to Wesleyan by a goal in the NESCAC championship game. Middlebury didn't make the tourney. Wesleyan made the final 4.]

I think the tourney should assemble the best teams in the nation to play for a championship. The AQ system prevents that from happening to the fullest extent and, in the process, makes a mild mockery of the event. The NCAA doesn't agree, which is fine ... it is, after all, their tourney.

[BIGDAWG]

All this NESCAC bias makes me sick. Outside of Tufts and maybe two others each year, the remaining teams could not compete with the real D3 talent more south and west. At this point the Liberty League is the best conference and should have more of their teams admitted, instead of NESCAC teams that shy away from quality OOC games. You can't get throttled by the top teams in your division and expect to go to the NCAA. Keep admitting smaller AQ schools that have exceptional seasons, because who knows, maybe one will upset a big dawg as we saw last year with Centre over Denison. If you are arguing otherwise, you are simply upset that your sons school or alma mater can't compete in the conference they find themselves in. Stop moving the goalposts, get better.

[boredatwork]

Your point WAS ORIGINALLY that legitimate national championship contenders, teams who could win 5 straight NCAA tournament games, were being left out which I asked for an example.

I don't think there's any argument that there are teams every year getting into the tournament through AQ's that teams not in the tournament would beat handily, no one can argue that. But you are rewarding teams for regular season success, which isn't the end of the world in my opinion

And you don't like my examples. I'll stand by them - particularly Middlebury, which upon further review, took NESCAC champion Tufts to OT in the NESCAC tourney. Tufts beat Williams in OT in the next game/championship. Williams then made the final 4 ...

[Edited to add: Interestingly, a similar thing happened to Middlebury in 2017 - lost to Wesleyan by a goal in the NESCAC championship game. Middlebury didn't make the tourney. Wesleyan made the final 4.]

I think the tourney should assemble the best teams in the nation to play for a championship. The AQ system prevents that from happening to the fullest extent and, in the process, makes a mild mockery of the event. The NCAA doesn't agree, which is fine ... it is, after all, their tourney.

2017 Clarkson beat National runner up RIT....do they deserve to be in the tournament? Or do you only count close losses in the NESCAC?

[smoova]

2017 Clarkson beat National runner up RIT....do they deserve to be in the tournament? Or do you only count close losses in the NESCAC?

The NESCAC is low-hanging fruit because the conference has so many competitive programs, the conference tourney is usually a dogfight, and there are typically one or two strong NESCAC teams shut out of the NCAA tourney every year. I haven't looked at other conferences for material. You asked for 2 examples, now you have them - in the same school no less. I've beaten this horse far past death.

[richard]

Ithaca 2009 might be the poster child for best teams left out, at least if you ask them. Finished 14-2 with a 1 point loss to Naz in the E8 final. They were a really good team that played a crap ooc schedule. They had beaten Naz earlier and they should have known that they needed to win to get in. They didn’t and cried the blues for years after about it. Like BIGDAWG said about the NESCAC teams, play a better ooc schedule. You can’t rely on those wins vs. Ham Tech, Colby, Conn Col, Bowdoin etc to get you in. Annually you can look through their schedules and not be impressed.

[UpperCorner22]

https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... son-top-20

Is this new? Or just a continuation of the silliness they started previously?

[lilax]

Your point WAS ORIGINALLY that legitimate national championship contenders, teams who could win 5 straight NCAA tournament games, were being left out which I asked for an example.

I don't think there's any argument that there are teams every year getting into the tournament through AQ's that teams not in the tournament would beat handily, no one can argue that. But you are rewarding teams for regular season success, which isn't the end of the world in my opinion

And you don't like my examples. I'll stand by them - particularly Middlebury, which upon further review, took NESCAC champion Tufts to OT in the NESCAC tourney. Tufts beat Williams in OT in the next game/championship. Williams then made the final 4 ...

[Edited to add: Interestingly, a similar thing happened to Middlebury in 2017 - lost to Wesleyan by a goal in the NESCAC championship game. Middlebury didn't make the tourney. Wesleyan made the final 4.]

I think the tourney should assemble the best teams in the nation to play for a championship. The AQ system prevents that from happening to the fullest extent and, in the process, makes a mild mockery of the event. The NCAA doesn't agree, which is fine ... it is, after all, their tourney.

Those Middlebury teams are terrible examples. Neither team deserved to make the playoffs.

The 2017 team finished 9-9 with a loss to a terrible 3-12 Colby team and were blown out 28-12 by National Runner Up RIT. They went 4-7 against teams that made the NCAA playoffs.

The 2019 team finished with a losing record of 8-9. They went 2-6 against teams that made the NCAA playoffs with were again blown out by the national runner up, this time Amherst, 23-12.

[smoova]

Your point WAS ORIGINALLY that legitimate national championship contenders, teams who could win 5 straight NCAA tournament games, were being left out which I asked for an example.

I don't think there's any argument that there are teams every year getting into the tournament through AQ's that teams not in the tournament would beat handily, no one can argue that. But you are rewarding teams for regular season success, which isn't the end of the world in my opinion

And you don't like my examples. I'll stand by them - particularly Middlebury, which upon further review, took NESCAC champion Tufts to OT in the NESCAC tourney. Tufts beat Williams in OT in the next game/championship. Williams then made the final 4 ...

[Edited to add: Interestingly, a similar thing happened to Middlebury in 2017 - lost to Wesleyan by a goal in the NESCAC championship game. Middlebury didn't make the tourney. Wesleyan made the final 4.]

I think the tourney should assemble the best teams in the nation to play for a championship. The AQ system prevents that from happening to the fullest extent and, in the process, makes a mild mockery of the event. The NCAA doesn't agree, which is fine ... it is, after all, their tourney.

Those Middlebury teams are terrible examples. Neither team deserved to make the playoffs.

The 2017 team finished 9-9 with a loss to a terrible 3-12 Colby team and were blown out 28-12 by National Runner Up RIT. They went 4-7 against teams that made the NCAA playoffs.

The 2019 team finished with a losing record of 8-9. They went 2-6 against teams that made the NCAA playoffs with were again blown out by the national runner up, this time Amherst, 23-12.

"Deserve" is such an interesting word. Setting aside the fact that I wasn't asked to trot out "deserving" teams, I can probably agree that ~.500 teams with "terrible" losses may not be favored to get in (even if they're markedly trending up at the end of the year).

But, uh oh ... https://piedmontlions.com/sports/mens-l ... edule/2019

[ah23]

I feel like the very obvious answer for tournament balance is that there need to be SOME AQs, but there should also be enough Pool C/at-large bids to include teams from competitive conferences that have multiple teams capable of making deep runs. I don't think there's anything particularly special about conferences themselves; winning some rinky dink conference that includes seven teams with new programs doesn't (in my opinion) make a team deserving of an automatic tournament slot. Why should SUNY Poly go instead of Union or Williams? How does that make any sense? My general view is that there has to be a balance between growing the game and keeping the tournament competitive.

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As for the absurdly ignorant "tHe nEsCaC iS oVeRrAteD aNd dOeSnt sChEdUle OoC gAmEs" comment:

• Tufts has scheduled multiple nationally ranked OOC teams literally every single season for the last decade. Stevens/Ithaca/Gettysburg in 2020, Stevens/Stevenson every year from 2012-2019, Cortland in 2019/2018, multiple games against WNE

• Amherst scheduled RIT/Cortland/WNE in 2020 and numerous other years. They have gone to the Mustang Classic in multiple consecutive years: they faced RIT/F&M in 2019, Denison/RIT in 2018, and Lynchburg/RIT in 2017

• Williams has played 3/4 of Union/RPI/Stevens/Colorado College in every single season since 2017, and played 2/4 in 2016. They have also played WNE multiple times in that time span

• Bates has started their season against RIT in each of the last three seasons, and has also played perennial CCC champ WNE in each of those seasons. They play RIT/York/WNE/Babson - three conference champions - this season

• Middlebury had Union/RPI scheduled in 2020, St. Lawrence/Dickinson/Union in 2019, St. Lawrence/Denison in 2018, and St. Lawrence/RIT in both 2017 and 2016

• Wesleyan played Lynchburg/Cortland in 2019, Roanoke in 2018, and Union in 2017

Plenty of room for disagreement/discussion on this site, but people who add nothing and are only here to troll should really find a different hobby.

[DeepPocket]

https://www.si.com/college/2022/01/20/n ... ball-money

Good read here on recent NCAA meetings. Touches on AQs, budget disparities, and adding a new division. Although focused mainly on the DI football implications, the financial structure issue and proposed changes discussed would have effects across all divisions, permitting each division to adapt their own rule set.

[Bananas4Lax3]

Not sure why everyone gets so upset about AQs. There are AQs in every sport at every division for the NCAA tournament. Mens basketball has AQs and half of the games are blowouts in the first round, it is also the most popular and most watched college sporting event in the country.

[UpperCorner22]

Not sure why everyone gets so upset about AQs. There are AQs in every sport at every division for the NCAA tournament. Mens basketball has AQs and half of the games are blowouts in the first round, it is also the most popular and most watched college sporting event in the country.

Because they have AQ's for 50% of the spots... not 80% of the spots. Hence 50% of the teams are chosen by the NCAA committee because they actually belong there.

[ah23]

Not sure why everyone gets so upset about AQs. There are AQs in every sport at every division for the NCAA tournament. Mens basketball has AQs and half of the games are blowouts in the first round, it is also the most popular and most watched college sporting event in the country.

Because they have AQ's for 50% of the spots... not 80% of the spots. Hence 50% of the teams are chosen by the NCAA committee because they actually belong there.

It's actually even worse than that.

• March Madness has 32 AQs and 36 at-large selections, or about 47%.

• This past season, the D-III lacrosse championship had 28 AQs and 3 at-large selections (1 Pool B slot, 2 Pool C slots). That is 90%.

The issue is not that AQs exist; it's that they are vastly overrepresented in the D-III tournament field. That leaves good teams at home, turns the tournament's early rounds into a series of glorified scrimmages, and creates an imbalance between the North and South halves of the bracket.

[CapitanFan]

Those 2021at-larges (CNU, Colorado College, and Stevenson) performed well and earned their bids. I agree that the pool C bids should increase. What is the reason the tournament + pool B/C does not expand? Is it purely financial? I know many teams/schools if included would absorb the cost. My guess is there are too many regulations to navigate.

[ReturnOfTheWAC]

Those 2021at-larges (CNU, Colorado College, and Stevenson) performed well and earned their bids. I agree that the pool C bids should increase. What is the reason the tournament + pool B/C does not expand? Is it purely financial? I know many teams/schools if included would absorb the cost. My guess is there are too many regulations to navigate.

Last year the tournament bracket shrunk due to covid

This year the bracket has actually expanded to 38 total teams(I believe pre pandemic the bracket was 36)

I could be wrong but the bracket breakdown is

27 Pool A(Automatic Qualifier)
1 Pool B
10 Pool C(at large bids)

I think that teams who are eligible for pool b bids can also be eligible for pool c bids because Salisbury and CNU now play in a non auto bid conference. My assumption is one of them will eat up a pool b and the other will take a pool c bid.

Again could be way off but this is what my son explained to me

[DeepPocket]

Interesting DIII proposals at the NCAA convention.

Reduction on number of teams to form a single sport conference from 7 to 6. -Adopted

Reduction on number of teams in conference to qualify for an NCAA tournament AQ from 7 to 6 -Adopted

Allowing DIII schools with a DI sport to apply DI financial assistance (I interpret that to be scholarships). - Adopted

[InsiderRoll]

Interesting DIII proposals at the NCAA convention.

Reduction on number of teams to form a single sport conference from 7 to 6. -Adopted

Reduction on number of teams in conference to qualify for an NCAA tournament AQ from 7 to 6 -Adopted

Allowing DIII schools with a DI sport to apply DI financial assistance (I interpret that to be scholarships). - Adopted

Any word on the D-III redshirt proposal? That world make a drastic impact.

[DeepPocket]

Interesting DIII proposals at the NCAA convention.

Reduction on number of teams to form a single sport conference from 7 to 6. -Adopted

Reduction on number of teams in conference to qualify for an NCAA tournament AQ from 7 to 6 -Adopted

Allowing DIII schools with a DI sport to apply DI financial assistance (I interpret that to be scholarships). - Adopted

Any word on the D-III redshirt proposal? That world make a drastic impact.

Proposal 3 was that if a student athlete competed at ANY time during the traditional season that would constitute using a season of eligibility. It’s status - Referred (as opposed to Adopted or Defeated). So perhaps it will be revisited later.

[JPAtlantic]

Interesting DIII proposals at the NCAA convention.

Reduction on number of teams to form a single sport conference from 7 to 6. -Adopted

Reduction on number of teams in conference to qualify for an NCAA tournament AQ from 7 to 6 -Adopted

Allowing DIII schools with a DI sport to apply DI financial assistance (I interpret that to be scholarships). - Adopted

Any insights on what schools might make the move to D1 for lacrosse only (Allowing DIII schools with a DI sport to apply DI financial assistance)?

Naturally Hobart will take advantage of this on some level - they should have been able to from the start like JHU has always done.

I don't see NESCAC, W&L, Haverford, Swarthmore, etc. taking advantage of this since they mostly emulate whatever the Ivys do.

York, RIT, CNU, Salisbury, Lynchburg, Gettysburg, Stevenson could easily make the jump to D1 and make an impact.