All-Americans

D1 Mens Lacrosse
Henpecked
Posts: 1162
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:02 am

Re: All-Americans

Post by Henpecked »

10stone5 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:00 am
xxxxxxx wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:33 pm Defenseman Owen Grant from Delaware is a top three pole in the country, the PLL draft will confirm that later this spring.
Defense is a difficult position to accurately gauge and
compare.
Its seems easier to fall back on the better known names.

If the lacrosse “gurus” could take the time to see what a
dynamic player Grant is, you might see him as
1st or 2nd team AA.
All you need to do is go back and watch Owen Grant play for Team Canada this summer against University of Virginia and the best players on Team USA (LaxSportsNetwork.com still has these games archived). He is a caused turnover machine. He always takes on the opponents top attackman and basically shuts them down. Grant is a one-man clear and instant fast break on any loose ball around the crease as well.

There are a ton of great close defensemen so it is really tough to rate them in order from 1-10. But I believe you will see Grant in the top four defensive picks in the PLL late this spring. Will Bowen, Brett Makar and Gibson Smith have better name recognition, but having watched all of them play, he is on that same level or better.
JBFortunato
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:38 pm

Re: All-Americans

Post by JBFortunato »

Henpecked wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:52 am
10stone5 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:00 am
xxxxxxx wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:33 pm Defenseman Owen Grant from Delaware is a top three pole in the country, the PLL draft will confirm that later this spring.
Defense is a difficult position to accurately gauge and
compare.
Its seems easier to fall back on the better known names.

If the lacrosse “gurus” could take the time to see what a
dynamic player Grant is, you might see him as
1st or 2nd team AA.
All you need to do is go back and watch Owen Grant play for Team Canada this summer against University of Virginia and the best players on Team USA (LaxSportsNetwork.com still has these games archived). He is a caused turnover machine. He always takes on the opponents top attackman and basically shuts them down. Grant is a one-man clear and instant fast break on any loose ball around the crease as well.

There are a ton of great close defensemen so it is really tough to rate them in order from 1-10. But I believe you will see Grant in the top four defensive picks in the PLL late this spring. Will Bowen, Brett Makar and Gibson Smith have better name recognition, but having watched all of them play, he is on that same level or better.
As long as we're talking about Delaware players who should (IMO) have been preseason AAs, how about Mike Robinson? As a sophomore he had 43 goals and 45 GBs in 12 games (versus, for instance, O'Neill who had 45 goals in 17 games - not to crap on O'Neill, he's a great player, but it is an interesting comparison). For my money, Robinson is one of the most exciting players in college lacrosse, can't wait to see what does this season.
blue angels
Posts: 767
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:37 pm

Re: All-Americans

Post by blue angels »

JBFortunato wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:08 am
Henpecked wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:52 am
10stone5 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:00 am
xxxxxxx wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:33 pm Defenseman Owen Grant from Delaware is a top three pole in the country, the PLL draft will confirm that later this spring.
Defense is a difficult position to accurately gauge and
compare.
Its seems easier to fall back on the better known names.

If the lacrosse “gurus” could take the time to see what a
dynamic player Grant is, you might see him as
1st or 2nd team AA.
All you need to do is go back and watch Owen Grant play for Team Canada this summer against University of Virginia and the best players on Team USA (LaxSportsNetwork.com still has these games archived). He is a caused turnover machine. He always takes on the opponents top attackman and basically shuts them down. Grant is a one-man clear and instant fast break on any loose ball around the crease as well.

There are a ton of great close defensemen so it is really tough to rate them in order from 1-10. But I believe you will see Grant in the top four defensive picks in the PLL late this spring. Will Bowen, Brett Makar and Gibson Smith have better name recognition, but having watched all of them play, he is on that same level or better.
As long as we're talking about Delaware players who should (IMO) have been preseason AAs, how about Mike Robinson? As a sophomore he had 43 goals and 45 GBs in 12 games (versus, for instance, O'Neill who had 45 goals in 17 games - not to crap on O'Neill, he's a great player, but it is an interesting comparison). For my money, Robinson is one of the most exciting players in college lacrosse, can't wait to see what does this season.
I am anything but a Duke fan, but if you are going to compare stats, you have to consider level of competition and the teams Duke played were far better than those Delaware played. Any way, this list is pretty meaningless and no one needs to become exorcised over their favorite player's exclusion. Certainly, many of the players listed will reappear at the end, but many others will not.............
laxreference
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Contact:

Re: All-Americans

Post by laxreference »

HopFan16 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:45 pm I'd have gone with Naso or Stathakis for 3rd team FOGO instead of Cole. You know, someone who actually faced a tough schedule of opposing faceoff guys. Cole beat up on a very weak schedule last year.

Not a lot of standout LSMs after the first two obvious guys.

Vermont's McConvey should probably be on there somewhere.
Accurate take on the FOGO situation. My Faceoff Elo model showed that Cole actually had a down year considering who he was going up against. He's going to need to regain the '20 form if he's going to earn that 3rd spot.

Keep an eye out for Tommy Burke (UVM) as well. Won 68.9% and is currently sitting with a 1662 career fElo rating (1500 is average). He took a big leap between '20 and '21. If he takes even a moderate step forward this year, he'll be in the conversation for AA.
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bananas
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:39 pm

Re: All-Americans

Post by bananas »

HopFan16 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:45 pm I'd have gone with Naso or Stathakis for 3rd team FOGO instead of Cole. You know, someone who actually faced a tough schedule of opposing faceoff guys. Cole beat up on a very weak schedule last year.

Not a lot of standout LSMs after the first two obvious guys.

Vermont's McConvey should probably be on there somewhere.
Just a preseason list but surprised that will change but the greek freak , Naso and Burke were not one of the fogos selected .Individual brilliance matters but so should level of competition and team success . Tired of fake defaults , some more worthy defenders. Guess UVA just defends well in championship games. Got another tiresome default at mid on 1st team and a few below. List should motivate Cornell and a few b10 teams .McConvey did deserve consideration and so do a few others. For RU, expecting Sprock and Kamish to have AA worthy seasons . If RU has another top ten season then they and perhaps even a Jean Felix and Russo receive some consideration at year end. Admit Rall was a surprise choice as ton of lsm standouts notably Kennedy, Farrare, Johnson, Report, Legget . Kirst was very worthy, made such a huge difference to RU and getting him back is BIGLY HUGE , be interesting to see how the 1st team goalie fares with tougher schedule this year . Current protocols affecting players and team play, want to see all at their best so keeping fingers crossed that much better come start of lax season.
backerzone
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 8:30 am

Re: All-Americans

Post by backerzone »

10stone5 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:45 am Sam Shafer is definitely in the mix for 1st 2nd 3rd teams,
All American, anyone who watched the Denver game knows
that,

Mike Adler, is back for another year,
a guy like Shafer,
maybe not the best numbers but visually, very appealing,
capable of spectacular saves.
Ader was 49% in the ACC games- no way he's an AA- those games wouldn't even get to OT with Kirst or Entenmann. PR campaign.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32425
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All-Americans

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

bananas wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:03 pm
HopFan16 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:45 pm I'd have gone with Naso or Stathakis for 3rd team FOGO instead of Cole. You know, someone who actually faced a tough schedule of opposing faceoff guys. Cole beat up on a very weak schedule last year.

Not a lot of standout LSMs after the first two obvious guys.

Vermont's McConvey should probably be on there somewhere.
Just a preseason list but surprised that will change but the greek freak , Naso and Burke were not one of the fogos selected .Individual brilliance matters but so should level of competition and team success . Tired of fake defaults , some more worthy defenders. Guess UVA just defends well in championship games. Got another tiresome default at mid on 1st team and a few below. List should motivate Cornell and a few b10 teams .McConvey did deserve consideration and so do a few others. For RU, expecting Sprock and Kamish to have AA worthy seasons . If RU has another top ten season then they and perhaps even a Jean Felix and Russo receive some consideration at year end. Admit Rall was a surprise choice as ton of lsm standouts notably Kennedy, Farrare, Johnson, Report, Legget . Kirst was very worthy, made such a huge difference to RU and getting him back is BIGLY HUGE , be interesting to see how the 1st team goalie fares with tougher schedule this year . Current protocols affecting players and team play, want to see all at their best so keeping fingers crossed that much better come start of lax season.
+1
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
Seahawk
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: All-Americans

Post by Seahawk »

Recency bias as only 2 Ivies are noted. I can’t believe more won’t show up at the end of the season even with all the transfers out.
10stone5
Posts: 7475
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:29 pm

Re: All-Americans

Post by 10stone5 »

blue angels wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:34 am
JBFortunato wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:08 am
Henpecked wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:52 am
10stone5 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:00 am
xxxxxxx wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:33 pm Defenseman Owen Grant from Delaware is a top three pole in the country, the PLL draft will confirm that later this spring.
Defense is a difficult position to accurately gauge and
compare.
Its seems easier to fall back on the better known names.

If the lacrosse “gurus” could take the time to see what a
dynamic player Grant is, you might see him as
1st or 2nd team AA.
All you need to do is go back and watch Owen Grant play for Team Canada this summer against University of Virginia and the best players on Team USA (LaxSportsNetwork.com still has these games archived). He is a caused turnover machine. He always takes on the opponents top attackman and basically shuts them down. Grant is a one-man clear and instant fast break on any loose ball around the crease as well.

There are a ton of great close defensemen so it is really tough to rate them in order from 1-10. But I believe you will see Grant in the top four defensive picks in the PLL late this spring. Will Bowen, Brett Makar and Gibson Smith have better name recognition, but having watched all of them play, he is on that same level or better.
As long as we're talking about Delaware players who should (IMO) have been preseason AAs, how about Mike Robinson? As a sophomore he had 43 goals and 45 GBs in 12 games (versus, for instance, O'Neill who had 45 goals in 17 games - not to crap on O'Neill, he's a great player, but it is an interesting comparison). For my money, Robinson is one of the most exciting players in college lacrosse, can't wait to see what does this season.
I am anything but a Duke fan, but if you are going to compare stats, you have to consider level of competition and the teams Duke played were far better than those Delaware played. Any way, this list is pretty meaningless and no one needs to become exorcised over their favorite player's exclusion. Certainly, many of the players listed will reappear at the end, but many others will not.............
Level of competition, sure.
But, the CAA teams played twice each, so there’s that.

Michael Robinson and Owen Grant have the same issue,
so so many top players at their positions.

Though really, the goal is,
get back to the NCAAs for the Hens.
Laxfan#1969
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:23 pm

Re: All-Americans

Post by Laxfan#1969 »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:27 pm
bananas wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:03 pm
HopFan16 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:45 pm I'd have gone with Naso or Stathakis for 3rd team FOGO instead of Cole. You know, someone who actually faced a tough schedule of opposing faceoff guys. Cole beat up on a very weak schedule last year.

Not a lot of standout LSMs after the first two obvious guys.

Vermont's McConvey should probably be on there somewhere.
Just a preseason list but surprised that will change but the greek freak , Naso and Burke were not one of the fogos selected .Individual brilliance matters but so should level of competition and team success . Tired of fake defaults , some more worthy defenders. Guess UVA just defends well in championship games. Got another tiresome default at mid on 1st team and a few below. List should motivate Cornell and a few b10 teams .McConvey did deserve consideration and so do a few others. For RU, expecting Sprock and Kamish to have AA worthy seasons . If RU has another top ten season then they and perhaps even a Jean Felix and Russo receive some consideration at year end. Admit Rall was a surprise choice as ton of lsm standouts notably Kennedy, Farrare, Johnson, Report, Legget . Kirst was very worthy, made such a huge difference to RU and getting him back is BIGLY HUGE , be interesting to see how the 1st team goalie fares with tougher schedule this year . Current protocols affecting players and team play, want to see all at their best so keeping fingers crossed that much better come start of lax season.
+1
+2

Good post...you are correct on Sprock (Mid) and Kamish (SSDM). They are both legit.

It's preseason...so some of this will change
jrn19
Posts: 2286
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 10:41 pm

Re: All-Americans

Post by jrn19 »

lorin wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:29 am
jrn19 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:38 pm
lorin wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:25 pm
Matnum PI wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:34 pm USA Lacrosse Magazine's 2022 Division I Men's Preseason All-Americans

FIRST TEAM
A — Chris Gray, North Carolina
A — Pat Kavanagh, Notre Dame
A — Connor Shellenberger, Virginia
M — Sam Handley, Penn
M — Jack Hannah, Denver
M — Nakeie Montgomery, Duke
D — Will Bowen, Georgetown
D — Brett Makar, Maryland
D — Marcus Hudgins, Army
FO — Mike Sisselberger, Lehigh
LSM — Ryan McNulty, Loyola
SSDM — Connor Maher, North Carolina
G — Owen McElroy, Georgetown

SECOND TEAM
A — Matt Moore, Virginia
A — Brennan O'Neill, Duke
A — Logan Wisnauskas, Maryland
M — Graham Bundy, Georgetown
M — Tucker Dordevic, Syracuse
M — Kyle Long, Maryland
D — George Baughan, Princeton
D — Chris Fake, Yale
D — Gibson Smith, Georgetown
FO — Petey LaSalla, Virginia
LSM — Tyler Carpenter, Duke
SSDM — Roman Puglise, Maryland
G — Liam Entenmann, Notre Dame

THIRD TEAM
A — Matt Brandau, Yale
A — Brendan Nichtern, Army
A — Asher Nolting, High Point
M — Matt Campbell, Virginia
M — Brendan Curry, Syracuse
M — Jonathan Donville, Maryland
D — Arden Cohen, Notre Dame
D — Owen Grant, Delaware
D — Cam Wyers, Loyola
FO — Zach Cole, St. Joseph's
LSM — Ethan Rall, Rutgers
SSDM — Ryan Hallenbeck, Notre Dame
G — Colin Kirst, Rutgers
List it a Joke how the hell is O’Neill second team, base on D1play only
As always, these things are as much projections for what you will do as what you have done. It’s a preseason list. If you just want what they’ve done in college before; that’s what last years end of season list was for
Makes no sense Notling average 4. 71 per game freshmen year Oneil 3.23. Notling averages 5.2 over four years
Yes and they’re projecting that at the end of this year O’Neill will be putting up better #’s than Nolting. If you just want to go off past #’s look up the 2021 all american team
jrn19
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Re: All-Americans

Post by jrn19 »

Seahawk wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:03 pm Recency bias as only 2 Ivies are noted. I can’t believe more won’t show up at the end of the season even with all the transfers out.
Not sure that’s recency bias as much as they literally haven’t played a game for 2 years
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: All-Americans

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

jrn19 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:08 pm
Seahawk wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:03 pm Recency bias as only 2 Ivies are noted. I can’t believe more won’t show up at the end of the season even with all the transfers out.
Not sure that’s recency bias as much as they literally haven’t played a game for 2 years
The 4 selected played last year?
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
molo
Posts: 1989
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:14 pm

Re: All-Americans

Post by molo »

Matt Campbell of Villanova is undoubtedly a player Virginia would love to have. Wrong V, IL.
lorin
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Re: All-Americans

Post by lorin »

jrn19 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:07 pm
lorin wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:29 am
jrn19 wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:38 pm
lorin wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:25 pm
Matnum PI wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:34 pm USA Lacrosse Magazine's 2022 Division I Men's Preseason All-Americans

FIRST TEAM
A — Chris Gray, North Carolina
A — Pat Kavanagh, Notre Dame
A — Connor Shellenberger, Virginia
M — Sam Handley, Penn
M — Jack Hannah, Denver
M — Nakeie Montgomery, Duke
D — Will Bowen, Georgetown
D — Brett Makar, Maryland
D — Marcus Hudgins, Army
FO — Mike Sisselberger, Lehigh
LSM — Ryan McNulty, Loyola
SSDM — Connor Maher, North Carolina
G — Owen McElroy, Georgetown

SECOND TEAM
A — Matt Moore, Virginia
A — Brennan O'Neill, Duke
A — Logan Wisnauskas, Maryland
M — Graham Bundy, Georgetown
M — Tucker Dordevic, Syracuse
M — Kyle Long, Maryland
D — George Baughan, Princeton
D — Chris Fake, Yale
D — Gibson Smith, Georgetown
FO — Petey LaSalla, Virginia
LSM — Tyler Carpenter, Duke
SSDM — Roman Puglise, Maryland
G — Liam Entenmann, Notre Dame

THIRD TEAM
A — Matt Brandau, Yale
A — Brendan Nichtern, Army
A — Asher Nolting, High Point
M — Matt Campbell, Virginia
M — Brendan Curry, Syracuse
M — Jonathan Donville, Maryland
D — Arden Cohen, Notre Dame
D — Owen Grant, Delaware
D — Cam Wyers, Loyola
FO — Zach Cole, St. Joseph's
LSM — Ethan Rall, Rutgers
SSDM — Ryan Hallenbeck, Notre Dame
G — Colin Kirst, Rutgers
List it a Joke how the hell is O’Neill second team, base on D1play only
As always, these things are as much projections for what you will do as what you have done. It’s a preseason list. If you just want what they’ve done in college before; that’s what last years end of season list was for
Makes no sense Notling average 4. 71 per game freshmen year Oneil 3.23. Notling averages 5.2 over four years
Yes and they’re projecting that at the end of this year O’Neill will be putting up better #’s than Nolting. If you just want to go off past #’s look up the 2021 all american team
So O’Neil is the only pick they are projecting on, everyone else is based on past performance, FYI high school is over the only stats that count are D1 stats and in passed years 3.2 PPG freshmen year would not put u on second team AA. I am sure he will have a great year put he hasn’t yet.
keno in reno
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Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:28 pm

Re: All-Americans

Post by keno in reno »

Am I missing something, but where is the guy who transformed UVA from a mediocre February squad to the # 1 team in the country....Cole Kastner? Is he playing hoops or hurt? Schellenberger got all the props, deservedly so, for dominating the tournament on the offensive side, but Kastner had an equal impact on D
keno in reno
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:28 pm

Re: All-Americans

Post by keno in reno »

also curious what part of Montgomery's last season merits 2022 first team all american
stupefied
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Re: All-Americans

Post by stupefied »

keno in reno wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:37 pm Am I missing something, but where is the guy who transformed UVA from a mediocre February squad to the # 1 team in the country....Cole Kastner? Is he playing hoops or hurt? Schellenberger got all the props, deservedly so, for dominating the tournament on the offensive side, but Kastner had an equal impact on D
Must have been a UVA quota . Saustad covers the ones but somehow always gets overlooked, Sallade is underrated dm, Cormier scores wherever he stationed. Cuse had poor year but Kennedy and Hiltz should have been somewhere on list , latter will join Shellenberfger being a AA the next three years and maybe Shultz. Montgomery gets first team while Naso and Robertson get passed over. Robinson gets discounted by Hens softer schedule but deserving Grant didnt so would argue Robinson is deserving too. Know someone besides Gray will emerge at UNC , same with Kavanaugh and ND . Nolting gets his pts but also sets turnover records doing so, twelve turnovers agaisnt UVA is crazy . Shame Rogers only had one year at High Pt.
molo
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:14 pm

Re: All-Americans

Post by molo »

Should have said Lax Mag, not Il.
jrn19
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Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 10:41 pm

Re: All-Americans

Post by jrn19 »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:33 pm
jrn19 wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:08 pm
Seahawk wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 2:03 pm Recency bias as only 2 Ivies are noted. I can’t believe more won’t show up at the end of the season even with all the transfers out.
Not sure that’s recency bias as much as they literally haven’t played a game for 2 years
The 4 selected played last year?
It’ll have been 2 years pretty much since Fake and Baughan played. Same for Handley.
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