What is the role of this Forum(Posters) when it comes to Athletes?

[LarryGamLax]

This comes from yesterday's blowup on the Transfer Portal thread when I questioned why a player was transferring from one school to another. The girl's father saw it and came at me hard, but I'm okay with that. However, it should be noted that I never mentioned the school, the conference or what position she played. The father revealed the info about his daughter and I was not good with that at all. I addressed him and the matter in a PM that I wrote very early this morning. I want to keep that matter there.

It did get me thinking about what is the role that we on this Forum play in promoting and growing the game? Justalaxdad suggested that we should celebrate these student-athletes and their accomplishments. I disagree! We should talk about the sport of Lacrosse and all of the nuances involved. We should be able to critique and criticize players and coaches and programs without fear of angering somebody. NJBill was not a Charlotte North fan and he was jumped on by several posters for not being a fan. HE DID NOTHING WRONG! He had issues with CN as a player...and that should have been okay. However, some people felt that they had to defend the honor of women by attacking Bill and his integrity. And let me state once more for the record...he did and said nothing wrong. He didn't name call her, threaten her or her family. He didn't attack her school, her major or where she was from. He pointed out things that he didn't like in her play and used FACTS to back it up. She's an athlete and he critiqued her on Lacrosse...and nothing else.

Having said that...what is our role on this Forum when it comes to the sport and the people who play it and coach it? I haven't done anything differently since the days of LaxPower. I talk about what I know, what I see and give my opinion based on my knowledge and experience. I never said that I am the "preeminent authority" on anything, but I'm also not going to do that fake, false "I dunno nothin" crapola. I'm not built that way and I have zero interest in that kind of puffery. So, can we talk about the sport of Lacrosse(and all that it involves) and not be accused of verbal Assault and Battery?

Let's hear your thoughts and constructive criticisms.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

This comes from yesterday's blowup on the Transfer Portal thread when I questioned why a player was transferring from one school to another. The girl's father saw it and came at me hard, but I'm okay with that. However, it should be noted that I never mentioned the school, the conference or what position she played. The father revealed the info about his daughter and I was not good with that at all. I addressed him and the matter in a PM that I wrote very early this morning. I want to keep that matter there.

It did get me thinking about what is the role that we on this Forum play in promoting and growing the game? Justalaxdad suggested that we should celebrate these student-athletes and their accomplishments. I disagree! We should talk about the sport of Lacrosse and all of the nuances involved. We should be able to critique and criticize players and coaches and programs without fear of angering somebody. NJBill was not a Charlotte North fan and he was jumped on by several posters for not being a fan. HE DID NOTHING WRONG! He had issues with CN as a player...and that should have been okay. However, some people felt that they had to defend the honor of women by attacking Bill and his integrity. And let me state once more for the record...he did and said nothing wrong. He didn't name call her, threaten her or her family. He didn't attack her school, her major or where she was from. He pointed out things that he didn't like in her play and used FACTS to back it up. She's an athlete and he critiqued her on Lacrosse...and nothing else.

Having said that...what is our role on this Forum when it comes to the sport and the people who play it and coach it? I haven't done anything differently since the days of LaxPower. I talk about what I know, what I see and give my opinion based on my knowledge and experience. I never said that I am the "preeminent authority" on anything, but I'm also not going to do that fake, false "I dunno nothin" crapola. I'm not built that way and I have zero interest in that kind of puffery. So, can we talk about the sport of Lacrosse(and all that it involves) and not be accused of verbal Assault and Battery?

Let's hear your thoughts and constructive criticisms.

“We should talk about the sport of Lacrosse and all of the nuances involved. We should be able to critique and criticize players and coaches and programs without fear of angering somebody.”

Well said, Larry.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

This comes from yesterday's blowup on the Transfer Portal thread when I questioned why a player was transferring from one school to another. The girl's father saw it and came at me hard, but I'm okay with that. However, it should be noted that I never mentioned the school, the conference or what position she played. The father revealed the info about his daughter and I was not good with that at all. I addressed him and the matter in a PM that I wrote very early this morning. I want to keep that matter there.

It did get me thinking about what is the role that we on this Forum play in promoting and growing the game? Justalaxdad suggested that we should celebrate these student-athletes and their accomplishments. I disagree! We should talk about the sport of Lacrosse and all of the nuances involved. We should be able to critique and criticize players and coaches and programs without fear of angering somebody. NJBill was not a Charlotte North fan and he was jumped on by several posters for not being a fan. HE DID NOTHING WRONG! He had issues with CN as a player...and that should have been okay. However, some people felt that they had to defend the honor of women by attacking Bill and his integrity. And let me state once more for the record...he did and said nothing wrong. He didn't name call her, threaten her or her family. He didn't attack her school, her major or where she was from. He pointed out things that he didn't like in her play and used FACTS to back it up. She's an athlete and he critiqued her on Lacrosse...and nothing else.

Having said that...what is our role on this Forum when it comes to the sport and the people who play it and coach it? I haven't done anything differently since the days of LaxPower. I talk about what I know, what I see and give my opinion based on my knowledge and experience. I never said that I am the "preeminent authority" on anything, but I'm also not going to do that fake, false "I dunno nothin" crapola. I'm not built that way and I have zero interest in that kind of puffery. So, can we talk about the sport of Lacrosse(and all that it involves) and not be accused of verbal Assault and Battery?

Let's hear your thoughts and constructive criticisms.

Question for you Larry – you mentioned multiple posters going after, indeed ‘attacking’ njbill regarding his (ridiculous) position on Charlotte North. I remember only one making personal attacks.

[Lax101]

I agree 100 percent with the original post. I also don't think anything inappropriate was done or said yesterday. Critiquing players and coaches and voicing opinions about all aspects of the game is what makes this site interesting.

[PhantomLax99]

I was confused when I saw this new thread on the forum today. It sounded like Larry was attacked by the father of a player for speaking the truth, and as someone who values being able to speak his mind, it angered me. I went back and read the thread (as EVERYONE should do) and have to say, Larry, YOU were in the wrong. While being able to critique players is acceptable, you falsely claimed to have known this player and her recruiting process and suggested the coaches didn't do their jobs when recruiting her. Larry... really? The emojis and sarcastic undertones didn't help either. I understand that you want to critique players and express ideas of not agreeing with their styles, but after reading numerous posts by you, you do not accept when a.) you are wrong, and b.) that others have different opinions and styles. To answer your question, the role of this forum is to talk about lacrosse and further the game. It is NOT to bash players, disrespect them, or try and prove that your methods are the best/ only way. If you are allowed to critique players in such a way, you need to be ok with people who disagree with you and who call you out when you cross a line, which is exactly what Justalaxdad did. I do agree that we should not only be celebrating the athletes but also discussing the game. However, a discussion is when both sides trade opinions, not try and prove who is right or spread misinformation. I hope you let this go. You were wrong, it's in the past, and this conversation should have ended in the last thread.

[@inthe8m]

I was confused when I saw this new thread on the forum today. It sounded like Larry was attacked by the father of a player for speaking the truth, and as someone who values being able to speak his mind, it angered me. I went back and read the thread (as EVERYONE should do) and have to say, Larry, YOU were in the wrong. While being able to critique players is acceptable, you falsely claimed to have known this player and her recruiting process and suggested the coaches didn't do their jobs when recruiting her. Larry... really? The emojis and sarcastic undertones didn't help either. I understand that you want to critique players and express ideas of not agreeing with their styles, but after reading numerous posts by you, you do not accept when a.) you are wrong, and b.) that others have different opinions and styles. To answer your question, the role of this forum is to talk about lacrosse and further the game. It is NOT to bash players, disrespect them, or try and prove that your methods are the best/ only way. If you are allowed to critique players in such a way, you need to be ok with people who disagree with you and who call you out when you cross a line, which is exactly what Justalaxdad did. I do agree that we should not only be celebrating the athletes but also discussing the game. However, a discussion is when both sides trade opinions, not try and prove who is right. I hope you let this go. You were wrong, it's in the past, and this conversation should have ended in the last thread.

Agree 100% on bolded items.

[fourtyfive]

I think criticism is fine. I believe for people to even care enough to gossip on here is good for the sport because obviously shows people are interested in women’s lacrosse. I think the issue is a lot of you present your opinions on players transfer decisions etc. as facts when you don’t even know the player or the whole truth. just stop presenting your opinion on a situation as a fact cause I promise you 99% of the time you’re wrong and that’s why you have family members coming for you as you should.

[Bart]

It did get me thinking about what is the role that we on this Forum play in promoting and growing the game? Justalaxdad suggested that we should celebrate these student-athletes and their accomplishments. I disagree! We should talk about the sport of Lacrosse and all of the nuances involved. We should be able to critique and criticize players and coaches and programs without fear of angering somebody.

Did you write this with a straight face? Not anger anyone? C'mon Larry....how many times has it been said this is a niche sport with a very small following. Several times by you if I am not mistaken. You want people to make judgemental, condescending often harsh opinions on an athlete or coach and not have people get angry? Good bet if you are writing something condescending or boorish about a player of coach it is going to be read by someone on this forum who knows that person personally and guess what? They may get mad and take that poster out back the woodshed.....like yesterday.

From the cheap seats, it does not really appear most people do not post things out of fear of angering anyone anyhow. Lots of things said about players and coaches here that I could see people getting plenty mad at if they know the target personally. A poster wants to be provocative, speak his/her mind and be harsh when he/she feels warranted........go ahead. Just don't expect people you pi$$ off to sit back and just smile. I for one welcome a response from a person like Justlaxdad.........kind of puts alot of posts in perspective.

[tothedraw]

I think commenting on why players transfer leads to a lot of speculation and negative discussion (as fourtyfive said). The majority of us don't know why individual players make very individual decisions. Discussing why that wouldn't be the choice we/our child would make is ok territory. The - she isn't the best in her conference at her position, why does she think she'll be the best in new conference- was a bit much. Maybe she wants to be the best she can be and felt the switch would push her to that.

Sometimes these threads have a hard time balancing empowering players/promoting the sport and giving honest critique. If you're going to say something personal, expect responses you don't like.

[DMac]

To not recognize, and take into consideration when posting in the wlax world, that you're treading in sensitive territory in a small world, is a surefire way to draw some ire. I'm one of few who had no girls in the family who played lacrosse (to clarify, only because there were no girls born in my family) but this community is pretty well connected, nearly all have Special Ds who play the game and/or have played the game themselves. Post whatever you want but recognize the risk of consequences being a fired up and piszed off mother/father (you're going to hear from Daddy ),/brother/sister, coming on with a few words for you. It's a small world. Just a word to the wise, don't ever, and ever is appropriate here, as in never ever, mention anything about a player's legs. There's an immediate conviction of lewd and lascivious behavior there. Just lettin' ya know.
Had to calm my old man down a bit when my kids where coming up, had to remind him that everyone around him was the parent of a kid out there and most of these people know each other. Wlax world isn't a whole lot different.

[howdyyall]

I think commenting on why players transfer leads to a lot of speculation and negative discussion (as fourtyfive said). The majority of us don't know why individual players make very individual decisions. Discussing why that wouldn't be the choice we/our child would make is ok territory. The - she isn't the best in her conference at her position, why does she think she'll be the best in new conference- was a bit much. Maybe she wants to be the best she can be and felt the switch would push her to that.

Sometimes these threads have a hard time balancing empowering players/promoting the sport and giving honest critique. If you're going to say something personal, expect responses you don't like.

Lots of interesting thoughts posted on this thread…one question I have is where is the demarcation line between Womens lacrosse and say, college football or Men’s college basketball, or any other college sport. Are we supposed to treat different sports differently. Should the preeminent Womens lacrosse forum be treated by its posters any different than the preeminent SEC football thread, as one example?

[tothedraw]

My first thought is that when a big time men's football or b-ball player announces a transfer there have already been multiple press conferences, interviews, internet and talk radio chats about who,when and why. They are monetized sports with huge professional dollar implications and the expectation going in is the spotlight is bright.

We are discussing a niche women's sport. They are different.

That being said, I'm not against criticism or playing favorites. IMO what is being dissected is assumption of personal motivation.

[wlaxphan20]

My first thought is that when a big time men's football or b-ball player announces a transfer there have already been multiple press conferences, interviews, internet and talk radio chats about who, when and why. They are monetized sports with huge professional dollar implications and the expectation going in is the spotlight is bright.

We are discussing a niche women's sport. They are different.

That being said, I'm not against criticism or playing favorites. IMO what is being dissected is assumption of personal motivation.

I agree. This was well worded.

[hmmm]

This comes from yesterday's blowup on the Transfer Portal thread when I questioned why a player was transferring from one school to another. The girl's father saw it and came at me hard, but I'm okay with that. However, it should be noted that I never mentioned the school, the conference or what position she played. The father revealed the info about his daughter and I was not good with that at all. I addressed him and the matter in a PM that I wrote very early this morning. I want to keep that matter there.

It did get me thinking about what is the role that we on this Forum play in promoting and growing the game? Justalaxdad suggested that we should celebrate these student-athletes and their accomplishments. I disagree! We should talk about the sport of Lacrosse and all of the nuances involved. We should be able to critique and criticize players and coaches and programs without fear of angering somebody. NJBill was not a Charlotte North fan and he was jumped on by several posters for not being a fan. HE DID NOTHING WRONG! He had issues with CN as a player...and that should have been okay. However, some people felt that they had to defend the honor of women by attacking Bill and his integrity. And let me state once more for the record...he did and said nothing wrong. He didn't name call her, threaten her or her family. He didn't attack her school, her major or where she was from. He pointed out things that he didn't like in her play and used FACTS to back it up. She's an athlete and he critiqued her on Lacrosse...and nothing else.

Having said that...what is our role on this Forum when it comes to the sport and the people who play it and coach it? I haven't done anything differently since the days of LaxPower. I talk about what I know, what I see and give my opinion based on my knowledge and experience. I never said that I am the "preeminent authority" on anything, but I'm also not going to do that fake, false "I dunno nothin" crapola. I'm not built that way and I have zero interest in that kind of puffery. So, can we talk about the sport of Lacrosse(and all that it involves) and not be accused of verbal Assault and Battery?

Let's hear your thoughts and constructive criticisms.

For the most part I agree with you, but in terms of yesterdays post you left out the fact that you briefly trained the player who then chose that your program wasn't right for her. You then went on the question her skill level and the recruiting ability of the ACC coaches that chose to bring her in. This wreaks of vindictiveness and making a personal attack on a player that you had a professional relationship seems unethical to me. No you didn't mention the player, school, position, etc. But of course that information is going to come out in short order in such a small community of people. I have no problem with critiquing teams and players as long at is constructive and not personal. Your post yesterday seemed to cross the line into personal. Questioning motives for transfers is a slippery slope. Pretending to have personal knowledge of a player and of such motives when you do not is even worse.

[LarryGamLax]

This comes from yesterday's blowup on the Transfer Portal thread when I questioned why a player was transferring from one school to another. The girl's father saw it and came at me hard, but I'm okay with that. However, it should be noted that I never mentioned the school, the conference or what position she played. The father revealed the info about his daughter and I was not good with that at all. I addressed him and the matter in a PM that I wrote very early this morning. I want to keep that matter there.

It did get me thinking about what is the role that we on this Forum play in promoting and growing the game? Justalaxdad suggested that we should celebrate these student-athletes and their accomplishments. I disagree! We should talk about the sport of Lacrosse and all of the nuances involved. We should be able to critique and criticize players and coaches and programs without fear of angering somebody. NJBill was not a Charlotte North fan and he was jumped on by several posters for not being a fan. HE DID NOTHING WRONG! He had issues with CN as a player...and that should have been okay. However, some people felt that they had to defend the honor of women by attacking Bill and his integrity. And let me state once more for the record...he did and said nothing wrong. He didn't name call her, threaten her or her family. He didn't attack her school, her major or where she was from. He pointed out things that he didn't like in her play and used FACTS to back it up. She's an athlete and he critiqued her on Lacrosse...and nothing else.

Having said that...what is our role on this Forum when it comes to the sport and the people who play it and coach it? I haven't done anything differently since the days of LaxPower. I talk about what I know, what I see and give my opinion based on my knowledge and experience. I never said that I am the "preeminent authority" on anything, but I'm also not going to do that fake, false "I dunno nothin" crapola. I'm not built that way and I have zero interest in that kind of puffery. So, can we talk about the sport of Lacrosse(and all that it involves) and not be accused of verbal Assault and Battery?

Let's hear your thoughts and constructive criticisms.

For the most part I agree with you, but in terms of yesterdays post you left out the fact that you briefly trained the player who then chose that your program wasn't right for her. You then went on the question her skill level and the recruiting ability of the ACC coaches that chose to bring her in. This wreaks of vindictiveness and making a personal attack on a player that you had a professional relationship seems unethical to me. No you didn't mention the player, school, position, etc. But of course that information is going to come out in short order in such a small community of people. I have no problem with critiquing teams and players as long at is constructive and not personal. Your post yesterday seemed to cross the line into personal. Questioning motives for transfers is a slippery slope. Pretending to have personal knowledge of a player and of such motives when you do not is even worse.

Absolutely ridiculous! Since I didn't give any specifics about the player, the info as to who it is would NOT have come out because the vague description could have been a number of players. The fact is that justalaxdad went live on the Forum to get at me instead of going through the PM. When we were in the LaxPower era and I had a problem with people that was personal, I always used the PM route. JALxD could have done that as well, but he went public and opened up the door.

You said "Questioning motives for Transfers is a slippery slope". I say Questioning motives for Female Transfers is a new slippery slope in Lacrosse. On the Men's side, in almost every sport, when guys transfer the first question is WHY? It's discussed, bandied back and forth...and then people move on. You want it to be different for females? I'm going to do it just like I would a male.

Did you ever think that I didn't mention that she had briefly been a client because I wasn't trying to put her name out there? That's EXACTLY why I didn't say anything about that, BUT JALxD did. And show me where "you think" the post became personal. Site line and verse please.

Okay, this will be my final word on this. You guys are welcome to continue to go at me without fear that I will run to admin like CAN OPENER did. I have no need for that kind of cheap sideshow action.

[LarryGamLax]

My first thought is that when a big time men's football or b-ball player announces a transfer there have already been multiple press conferences, interviews, internet and talk radio chats about who, when and why. They are monetized sports with huge professional dollar implications and the expectation going in is the spotlight is bright.

We are discussing a niche women's sport. They are different.

That being said, I'm not against criticism or playing favorites. IMO what is being dissected is assumption of personal motivation.

I agree. This was well worded.

We are talking COLLEGIATE ATHLETE, right? If you really believe in equality, then I didn't use a different set of rules when it came to talking about this transfer. Again, I divulged NO personal information about the athlete in my original post, but many seem to have missed that.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Way back in the 2019's when a poster named Badlands was active, he wrote a couple of eloquent posts that are relevant to this topic.

This was in the Would BC have won with a better coach topic:

"A related point is if you had asked the question about Gait would so many people have been offended or upset about the question? My guess is no. Why? Because he’s a man — a big, tough man. AWW is a woman (albeit an obviously tough woman), and I’ve observed a paternalistic sentiment that seems to pervade this wlax board. People ask similar questions— in fact just state the same type of question as fact — all the time on the men’s board about male coaches without the same offense taken. I’m not saying we should start being brutally harsh with female coaches and players. I’m just noting what I think is a clear difference in tone and attitude toward men and women in sports.

This is a point I’ve made before, but I’ll continue to make the observation as it occurs to me because I’m intrigued by gender issues in sports."

And this from a critique of the 2019 BC v NC NCAA semifinal TV broadcast:

"I was interested that he (Jon "Stugotz" Weiner) seemed much more willing than SSB to call out players by name and criticize their play. He strongly criticized OF’s potential game winner but SSB explicitly stated that she’d rather compliment the goalie, and that was just one example. Even though he coaches the girls’ game, his bio says he’s a sports radio personality, which suggests to me that he usually discusses men’s sports. That contrast was interesting to me as I’ve often observed how much gentler announcers tend to be when discussing the play of female college players than male players (and how there seems to be some paternalistic protectionist tone on this board as compared to the men’s board). I think commentators should be fair, but if we are promoting women’s sports we should present them as tough and strong, which they are, and not undermine that message by treating them like little girls. If a guy makes a terrible play, we have no problem saying he did. Same should apply for his sister."

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Since I didn't give any specifics about the player, the info as to who it is would NOT have come out because the vague description could have been a number of players. The fact is that justalaxdad went live on the Forum to get at me instead of going through the PM. When we were in the LaxPower era and I had a problem with people that was personal, I always used the PM route. JALxD could have done that as well, but he went public and opened up the door.

This isn't getting enough consideration. Larry was called out as if he did publish personal information; and a re-reading of his original post clearly shows he didn't.

[Justalaxdad]

Since I didn't give any specifics about the player, the info as to who it is would NOT have come out because the vague description could have been a number of players. The fact is that justalaxdad went live on the Forum to get at me instead of going through the PM. When we were in the LaxPower era and I had a problem with people that was personal, I always used the PM route. JALxD could have done that as well, but he went public and opened up the door.

This isn't getting enough consideration. Larry was called out as if he did publish personal information; and a re-reading of his original post clearly shows he didn't.

ONW - come on, let’s not act like you and others don’t learn about all these transfers as soon as the teams announce them and once it is, you will know her name and teams involved, so yes Larry did attack her with his comments - like “she’s not even the best in her conference, how in the hell will she suddenly blossom at the new school”, eye roll and laughing emojis, etc…Fine, but at that point Larry put HIMSELF out there for rebuttal and he doesn’t want to debate it from that point on and wants to takes it to PM, and that’s his prerogative. Truth is, in the past few days, many people have disagreed with Larry and told him he was out of line, but yet he keeps coming back at them IN THE PUBLIC FORUM in his typical “I’m right, I have the facts”, condescending way and not on PMs. Why? Because he will argue till the sun goes down when he thinks he’s right, but he takes it to PM when he knows he’s wrong in an attempt to silence the ensuing conversation.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

ONW - come on, let’s not act like you and others don’t learn about all these transfers as soon as the teams announce them and once it is, you will know her name and teams involved, so yes Larry did attack her with his comments - like “she’s not even the best in her conference, how in the hell will she suddenly blossom at the new school”, eye roll and laughing emojis, etc…Fine, but at that point Larry put HIMSELF out there for rebuttal and he doesn’t want to debate it from that point on and wants to takes it to PM, and that’s his prerogative. Truth is, in the past few days, many people have disagreed with Larry and told him he was out of line, but yet he keeps coming back at them IN THE PUBLIC FORUM in his typical “I’m right, I have the facts”, condescending way and not on PMs. Why? Because he will argue till the sun goes down when he thinks he’s right, but he takes it to PM when he knows he’s wrong in an attempt to silence the ensuing conversation.

You make compelling points. Well said.