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I am hearing too many unsavory rumors for my liking.

Is it unrealistic to think women's lacrosse is immune?
Is it just enough under the radar to have recruiting violations be part of the norm?
Transfer portals full of players with extra eligibility, larger rosters, coaching changes(especially assistants), powerful club directors, wealthy parents, etc...all the ingredients are there.

Dasher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:09 pm I am hearing too many unsavory rumors for my liking.

Is it unrealistic to think women's lacrosse is immune?
Is it just enough under the radar to have recruiting violations be part of the norm?
Transfer portals full of players with extra eligibility, larger rosters, coaching changes(especially assistants), powerful club directors, wealthy parents, etc...all the ingredients are there.

Like who, for instance? Where’s the smoke where there may be a fire?

I hesitated to post this because I knew people would want it to get granular. Looking to keep this at a higher level. Not gonna start any rumors, but I think the topic is open for us to discuss in the daylight.

Have any programs been disciplined for anything other than ministerial issues by the NCAA in the past?

Dasher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:18 pm I hesitated to post this because I knew people would want it to get granular. Looking to keep this at a higher level. Not gonna start any rumors, but I think the topic is open for us to discuss in the daylight.

Have any programs been disciplined for anything other than ministerial issues by the NCAA in the past?

If there’s no smoke, what’s the use?

NO!
Our sport is still very much a niche sport. Other than us already in the world of this sport, outside of us no one cares very much.
If they start laying odds on Women's Lax at your local Sportsbook, then it could become an issue. Don't bet on that happening.

Sailing, crew are rather nitchey sports...nothing would surprise me these days

TNLAX wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:19 pm Sailing, crew are rather nitchey sports...nothing would surprise me these days

Wait...there was a Sailing and Crew scandal?? When?

LarryGamLax wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:25 pm

TNLAX wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:19 pm Sailing, crew are rather nitchey sports...nothing would surprise me these days

Wait...there was a Sailing and Crew scandal?? When?

It was a part of the Operation Varsity Blues admissions scandal, the sailing program at Stanford specifically. I think there were some for squash as well (not at Stanford, but other schools).

Dasher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:18 pm I hesitated to post this because I knew people would want it to get granular. Looking to keep this at a higher level. Not gonna start any rumors, but I think the topic is open for us to discuss in the daylight.

Have any programs been disciplined for anything other than ministerial issues by the NCAA in the past?

I understand wanting to keep it at a higher level, but could you at least specify how similar to Operation Varsity Blues we are talking? Are these rumors around non-athletes being named as lacrosse recruits and never spending a minute with the team once on campus? Or is the bribery/violation that is rumored being done for a kid who actually plays?

I think it's more of using a roster spot for a kid who doesn't meet a coach's standards for any reason outside of lacrosse. Donations, nepotism, influence come to mind.

Dasher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:16 pm I think it's more of using a roster spot for a kid who doesn't meet a coach's standards for any reason outside of lacrosse. Donations, nepotism, influence come to mind.

This is fairly common on the men's side. The larger the recruiting class, the more opportunity there is to take a kid or two for reasons other than ability. Players and payers ...

Dasher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:16 pm I think it's more of using a roster spot for a kid who doesn't meet a coach's standards for any reason outside of lacrosse. Donations, nepotism, influence come to mind.

I see. Yeah, I can see it being a possibility, especially considering how small the lacrosse community is. If news about it came out, I don't think I would be as surprised as the Varsity Blues scandal where the kids straight up never played the sport before and were complete frauds. I think club coaches feel the same pressure to a certain extent as well. Influence comes in all shapes and sizes. A kid whose parents are athletic administrators at schools or on boards for local rec leagues and have access to field usage and scheduling can be hard to ignore. Obviously, that example is for youth and club coaches. Do I think this is rampant? No, and I hope it's not, but realistically I think it's possible that it's probably happened a few times.

I think there are flyers taken on kids on the women's side. If you have a choice of marginal players that may never hit the field, do you take one with influence? Possibly.

I hope that the pay to play or pay to be accepted doesn't become part of that, but I am not naive enough to think it doesn't happen somewhere.

Dasher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:16 pm I think it's more of using a roster spot for a kid who doesn't meet a coach's standards for any reason outside of lacrosse. Donations, nepotism, influence come to mind.

Teams have been known to take highly academic kids with limited lax skills in order to help with the team's academic index...not sure that qualifies under Op varsity blues.

8meterPA wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:41 pm

Dasher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:16 pm I think it's more of using a roster spot for a kid who doesn't meet a coach's standards for any reason outside of lacrosse. Donations, nepotism, influence come to mind.

Teams have been known to take highly academic kids with limited lax skills in order to help with the team's academic index...not sure that qualifies under Op varsity blues.

I actually had a similar comment on my post but deleted it because I didn’t think it was relevant as it didn’t involve bribery, but it’s still recruiting kids for reasons beyond the sport. I’m glad you mentioned it.

8meterPA wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:41 pm

Dasher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:16 pm I think it's more of using a roster spot for a kid who doesn't meet a coach's standards for any reason outside of lacrosse. Donations, nepotism, influence come to mind.

Teams have been known to take highly academic kids with limited lax skills in order to help with the team's academic index...not sure that qualifies under Op varsity blues.

Sure but that’s totally different then what was going on with the Varsity Blues scam. Those families paid a guy to create completely fake athletic credentials and then paid off the coaches of the sport they pretended to be involved in to help them get admitted.

There are definitely small violations here and there that happen and are routinely overlooked but i wouldn't say it's wide spread or nefarious. clever manipulations of the scholarship allotments, and other stuff dealing with grades as other posters have suggested are examples. These are super easy to get away with in a sport like women's lacrosse because no one really pays attention unless it's egregious. Even then, i'd say 95% of college lacrosse coaches are honorable people and have alot of respect for the game to engage in anything nefarious. Violations have to be connected to something major or other sports for them to come to light. The Club lacrosse scene on the other hand..oh boy..

Kleizaster wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:10 pm The Club lacrosse scene on the other hand..oh boy..

I was actually reminded of this when OP mentioned club directors I was thinking that they’re probably facing the same thing. Influence comes in all shapes and sizes. If a kid has a parent who’s an AD or coach at a high school or is on the board of a local rec league and has access to fields & the scheduling of events on those fields, it can be hard to overlook. And that’s just one example…I realize many club coaches are high school coaches, but if they aren’t, field time for practices can be competitive and/or pricey in some areas.

I reckon that with the child admitted under such circumstances would be found out way sooner than later based upon how parents of players above and below average scrutinize anything and everything about the sports environment of their child. A "no name talent" that no other parent has heard or seen of appearing on roster would create one heckuva tsunami.

INTERESTING TAKE FROM THE STANFORD SAILING COACH ON HOW THE SCHOOL VIEWED THE SINGER DONATIONS---During all his coaching years, he had never gotten a call from a recruiter before, and “it wasn’t even on my radar to be alert or protective,” he told The Post. He was aware of scandals in other sports, like the NCAA men’s basketball corruption scandal of 2017, when the FBI arrested college coaches for bribery and money laundering. “But that would never happen to a sport like sailing or water polo,” he said.

Stanford didn’t offer much guidance on the subject, he said. The school’s Athletics Director, Bernard Muir, only congratulated him on the considerable donations, Vandemoer claims, and asked vague questions like, “You didn’t do anything for it, right?”

“I’d received zero training about the ethics or legality of donations,” Vandemoer writes. “My assumption, mistaken I now know, was that any major contribution would trigger a thorough investigation.” Instead, when he mentioned the six-figure donations to top officials at Stanford, “they were like, ‘This is good! Keep going!’”

8meterPA wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:41 pm

Dasher wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:16 pm I think it's more of using a roster spot for a kid who doesn't meet a coach's standards for any reason outside of lacrosse. Donations, nepotism, influence come to mind.

Teams have been known to take highly academic kids with limited lax skills in order to help with the team's academic index...not sure that qualifies under Op varsity blues.

Not Op Varsity Blues. But it does qualify for smart coaching.

I will just come out and say it…you see that in Men’s Basketball ALL THE TIME. Those 3-4 white guys at the end of the bench…yep. Sad but true.