Ron Desantis (The Desantis Doctrine)

[old salt]

Buffalo bagels. You and your party are SO full of it, Kram.

You have nominated this man as your party leader for TWELVE YEARS NOW....and you and the rest of your party keep telling us "it's not me....its 'some other guy" who keeps nominating Trump.

Bullsh(t. You are SO FAR IN DENIAL as to where your party is: it's you, OS, YA, and everyone else who claims Trump is an aberration...and his supporters are the same thing as Antifa that have NO FREAKING CLUE what you've done to your Republican Party.

How many times do I have to tell you guys to wake up? What the F will get you to understand that Trump is BY FAR the Republican voters' choice?

And here comes your next steaming pile of cr*p...you guys keep saying this, because you and your party won't take responsibility for ANYTHING you do. It's pathological at this point.

YOU nominated him, Kram. YOUR PARTY. Not the Dems, not the media, not the French of the New Zealanders, or whatever excuse you think makes sense.

Biden and the left did not seem to learn from Hillary calling them deplorables. It became a badge of honor. If Biden keeps offending the moderate republicans, and lumping them in with the MAGA extremists, they will probably vote against the democrats again. Not smart.

Right. And naturally, you don't think that this works in the opposite direction when your team when Trump "lumps everyone in" as hating America.....

Why is it so hard for you guy to take ten seconds, and look in the mirror, and accept that you MIGHT be the problem??

Nah. Impossible. It's the libs and the Dems fault that (checks notes)....oh, right: it's the libs and the dems fault that Republican voters keep nominating Trump.

It's just so stupid. You're WAY too smart to believe this cr*p.

You're doing what Biden and the left is. Labeling. Categorizing. Alienating. Anyone that doesn't agree with you is a maga extremist.

Why do you keep erroneously linking me with Trump? Because I point out that Biden is trash?

Let's check the record.

I voted for McCain.
Then Kasich.
Then Hogan.

When I was a Republican my "guys" kept losing. Kept getting put off, sidelined, and then pushed out by the party. So I even went as far as to write them in. And got lambasted from some of the left- leaning melon heads around here for being "part of the problem."



I'd say I'm one of the few who is part of the solution.

I'm not a Republican. It's not MY party. I am actually a card-carrying Independent.

Until the republicans have something worth supporting I'll remain uninvolved with them.

But let me guess, you voted for Hillary and then Biden twice because they were the "lesser of two evils?" Yes?



If so, please stop trying to lecture me until you have the intestinal fortitude to practice what you preach and stand up to YOUR sh1tty party. Otherwise you're just a hypocrite, perpetuating the problem and supporting your party's lousy candidates.

...that's too much nuance. You're either with him or against him. You gotta be on one team or another, & that makes you responsible for everything they do.

[PizzaSnake]

Buffalo bagels. You and your party are SO full of it, Kram.

You have nominated this man as your party leader for TWELVE YEARS NOW....and you and the rest of your party keep telling us "it's not me....its 'some other guy" who keeps nominating Trump.

Bullsh(t. You are SO FAR IN DENIAL as to where your party is: it's you, OS, YA, and everyone else who claims Trump is an aberration...and his supporters are the same thing as Antifa that have NO FREAKING CLUE what you've done to your Republican Party.

How many times do I have to tell you guys to wake up? What the F will get you to understand that Trump is BY FAR the Republican voters' choice?

And here comes your next steaming pile of cr*p...you guys keep saying this, because you and your party won't take responsibility for ANYTHING you do. It's pathological at this point.

YOU nominated him, Kram. YOUR PARTY. Not the Dems, not the media, not the French of the New Zealanders, or whatever excuse you think makes sense.

Biden and the left did not seem to learn from Hillary calling them deplorables. It became a badge of honor. If Biden keeps offending the moderate republicans, and lumping them in with the MAGA extremists, they will probably vote against the democrats again. Not smart.

Right. And naturally, you don't think that this works in the opposite direction when your team when Trump "lumps everyone in" as hating America.....

Why is it so hard for you guy to take ten seconds, and look in the mirror, and accept that you MIGHT be the problem??

Nah. Impossible. It's the libs and the Dems fault that (checks notes)....oh, right: it's the libs and the dems fault that Republican voters keep nominating Trump.

It's just so stupid. You're WAY too smart to believe this cr*p.

You're doing what Biden and the left is. Labeling. Categorizing. Alienating. Anyone that doesn't agree with you is a maga extremist.

Why do you keep erroneously linking me with Trump? Because I point out that Biden is trash?

Let's check the record.

I voted for McCain.
Then Kasich.
Then Hogan.

When I was a Republican my "guys" kept losing. Kept getting put off, sidelined, and then pushed out by the party. So I even went as far as to write them in. And got lambasted from some of the left- leaning melon heads around here for being "part of the problem."



I'd say I'm one of the few who is part of the solution.

I'm not a Republican. It's not MY party. I am actually a card-carrying Independent.

Until the republicans have something worth supporting I'll remain uninvolved with them.

But let me guess, you voted for Hillary and then Biden twice because they were the "lesser of two evils?" Yes?



If so, please stop trying to lecture me until you have the intestinal fortitude to practice what you preach and stand up to YOUR sh1tty party. Otherwise you're just a hypocrite, perpetuating the problem and supporting your party's lousy candidates.

...that's too much nuance. You're either with him or against him. You gotta be on one team or another, & that makes you responsible for everything they do.

Nuance?

Okay, so what are you doing to break the duopoly? ‘Cause if you do nothing, then it does remain a choice between the two. Seems like an obvious choice to me.

All of this alternative, third-party, voting my conscience is nice, if bullshite.

So, Biden or Trump (presuming he secures the Repub nomination)?

[a fan]

I keep hearing talk of "MAGA extreme republicans." Biden said it. Now we're seeing it parroted here. I see those MAGA extremists, the die-hard "Trump is the savior" people as a very small minority.
They 100 percent exist and are a cult. But no more prevalent, pervasive or offensive as the left whack-jobs.

Buffalo bagels. You and your party are SO full of it, Kram.

You have nominated this man as your party leader for TWELVE YEARS NOW....and you and the rest of your party keep telling us "it's not me....its 'some other guy" who keeps nominating Trump.

Bullsh(t. You are SO FAR IN DENIAL as to where your party is: it's you, OS, YA, and everyone else who claims Trump is an aberration...and his supporters are the same thing as Antifa that have NO FREAKING CLUE what you've done to your Republican Party.

How many times do I have to tell you guys to wake up? What the F will get you to understand that Trump is BY FAR the Republican voters' choice?


And here comes your next steaming pile of cr*p...you guys keep saying this, because you and your party won't take responsibility for ANYTHING you do. It's pathological at this point.

YOU nominated him, Kram. YOUR PARTY. Not the Dems, not the media, not the French of the New Zealanders, or whatever excuse you think makes sense.

Biden and the left did not seem to learn from Hillary calling them deplorables. It became a badge of honor. If Biden keeps offending the moderate republicans, and lumping them in with the MAGA extremists, they will probably vote against the democrats again. Not smart.

Right. And naturally, you don't think that this works in the opposite direction when your team when Trump "lumps everyone in" as hating America.....

Why is it so hard for you guy to take ten seconds, and look in the mirror, and accept that you MIGHT be the problem??

Nah. Impossible. It's the libs and the Dems fault that (checks notes)....oh, right: it's the libs and the dems fault that Republican voters keep nominating Trump.

It's just so stupid. You're WAY too smart to believe this cr*p.

You're doing what Biden and the left is. Labeling. Categorizing. Alienating. Anyone that doesn't agree with you is a maga extremist.

Nope. Show me where I said that? What I said was that you and the others here are registered Republicans. If TrumpFans are extremists as you and the rest here insist, answer one question:

How has Trump been your nominee for 12 years? And this time, like last time, it's not even close.

If what you and OS are claiming was true? Not only would Trump not be the nominee....he'd get 20% of the vote.

So...explain how he got nominated again? You can't. But by all means, give me your answer.

Why do you keep erroneously linking me with Trump? Because I point out that Biden is trash?

Because he's the clear leader of your party. How come you don't play this game with libs and Dems?

"Kramerica, YOU are the reason Biden is the Dem nominee....every time you call him trash, move voters flock to Biden"

Do you NOT understand how the above line of thinking is stupid?

Let's check the record.

I voted for McCain.
Then Kasich.
Then Hogan.

Again: there's no way you and Old Salt don't get how this is toddler logic.

A. You're telling me that Trump isn't your fault, and the "proof" you're giving me is that you didn't vote for him.

B. How the F doesn't this apply to the Dems and Libs....they didn't vote for him, either.

C. You're telling me that you don't get how idiotic this logic is?

I'd say I'm one of the few who is part of the solution.

I'm not a Republican. It's not MY party. I am actually a card-carrying Independent.

Now your logic is even WORSE. You understand, with no problem, that Trump ain't your fault because you never
voted for him, and are an Indie, like me.....yet at the same time, you're blaming "a different group that didn't vote for Trump"
for the "reason" why we have Trump. Come on. This is absurd, and you know it.

You did what I told others to do: leave the party, and tell your reps why. Bravo! That's the right path.

But let me guess, you voted for Hillary and then Biden twice because they were the "lesser of two evils?" Yes?

This silliness again.

Kram, primer on how POTUS elections work:

1. Each Party makes their nominations. Voters from each party are responsible for their nomination for President.

2. Then there's the Presidential Election.

#1 is solely the responsibility of Republican voters who's numbers overwhelm any indie vote. Not the libs. Not the media. Not the boogey man or whatever excuse you and other want to hand me. It's on the Republican voters. And contrary to your claims, Trump does NOT have fringe support from Republican voters. He kicked the sh*t out of the field, and then some. So sorry, checking the scoreboard instead of your imagination, your claim that TrumpNation is a sliver of Republican voters is demonstrably absurd.

#2 is when your "lesser of two evils" vote kicks in. It's a total logic fail to conflate #2, with #1.

If so, please stop trying to lecture me until you have the intestinal fortitude to practice what you preach and stand up to YOUR sh1tty party.

A. it ain't my party

B. I love it how you think your blame-logic ONLY applies to Trump.

You keep calling Biden trash, yes? "Therefore" YOU are responsible for Biden getting nominated for Dem POTUS.

Read that out loud: Kram is responsible for the Dems nominating Biden "because" you keep calling him names. It's a badge of honor (or some dumb thing) that you are calling Biden trash, and that's driving Dem voters to nominate him.


I'm betting you finally get how DUMB this logic is that you're using to claim that ANYTHING but Republican votes for Trump made him the R nominee for President.

[a fan]

...that's too much nuance. You're either with him or against him. You gotta be on one team or another, & that makes you responsible for everything they do.

You're responsible for Biden's nomination. And Hillary's.

Dem voters didn't have thing one to do with nominating Bill and Obama. That was you and your fellow Republicans who said bad things about them...forcing Dem voters to put them on the POTUS ballot.

You're on the hook for every choice those Presidents made, OS. It's YOUR fault that we got Obamacare.

So freaking stupid. Keep it up.

[MDlaxfan76]

Buffalo bagels. You and your party are SO full of it, Kram.

You have nominated this man as your party leader for TWELVE YEARS NOW....and you and the rest of your party keep telling us "it's not me....its 'some other guy" who keeps nominating Trump.

Bullsh(t. You are SO FAR IN DENIAL as to where your party is: it's you, OS, YA, and everyone else who claims Trump is an aberration...and his supporters are the same thing as Antifa that have NO FREAKING CLUE what you've done to your Republican Party.

How many times do I have to tell you guys to wake up? What the F will get you to understand that Trump is BY FAR the Republican voters' choice?

And here comes your next steaming pile of cr*p...you guys keep saying this, because you and your party won't take responsibility for ANYTHING you do. It's pathological at this point.

YOU nominated him, Kram. YOUR PARTY. Not the Dems, not the media, not the French of the New Zealanders, or whatever excuse you think makes sense.

Biden and the left did not seem to learn from Hillary calling them deplorables. It became a badge of honor. If Biden keeps offending the moderate republicans, and lumping them in with the MAGA extremists, they will probably vote against the democrats again. Not smart.

Right. And naturally, you don't think that this works in the opposite direction when your team when Trump "lumps everyone in" as hating America.....

Why is it so hard for you guy to take ten seconds, and look in the mirror, and accept that you MIGHT be the problem??

Nah. Impossible. It's the libs and the Dems fault that (checks notes)....oh, right: it's the libs and the dems fault that Republican voters keep nominating Trump.

It's just so stupid. You're WAY too smart to believe this cr*p.

You're doing what Biden and the left is. Labeling. Categorizing. Alienating. Anyone that doesn't agree with you is a maga extremist.

Why do you keep erroneously linking me with Trump? Because I point out that Biden is trash?

Let's check the record.

I voted for McCain.
Then Kasich.
Then Hogan.

When I was a Republican my "guys" kept losing. Kept getting put off, sidelined, and then pushed out by the party. So I even went as far as to write them in. And got lambasted from some of the left- leaning melon heads around here for being "part of the problem."



I'd say I'm one of the few who is part of the solution.

I'm not a Republican. It's not MY party. I am actually a card-carrying Independent.

Until the republicans have something worth supporting I'll remain uninvolved with them.

But let me guess, you voted for Hillary and then Biden twice because they were the "lesser of two evils?" Yes?



If so, please stop trying to lecture me until you have the intestinal fortitude to practice what you preach and stand up to YOUR sh1tty party. Otherwise you're just a hypocrite, perpetuating the problem and supporting your party's lousy candidates.

...that's too much nuance. You're either with him or against him. You gotta be on one team or another, & that makes you responsible for everything they do.

Whether we like it or not, our system demands a final binary choice. We either support voting for an imperfect person or we enable a worse option to win. A non vote or third party vote is the latter. I’ve done the latter and I regret it. I contributed to the criticism of Hillary, and despite my distaste, should have been more clear that Trump was much, much worse and needed to be defeated. I misread the probability of a Trump victory and wasn’t adequately serious about the necessity of stopping him. I didn’t believe so many people would be taken in by his con, and I underestimated the underlying fears, resentments about our changing world demographically and socially. I understand it better now and won’t underestimate it again.

Pointing out the imperfections of the better person is only useful insofar as the contrast is clarified as nevertheless in the favor of the better person. ‘Yes, she’s not perfect, but he’s much worse’.

That’s where you guys miss the boat. Constant and predictable criticism of the opponent of Trump, and constant and predictable excuses and deflections of responsibility for Trump’s much worse flaws are, whether you mean to or not, a permission structure for Trump supporters.

He needs to be defeated, even if by a tree stump.

[a fan]

Whether we like it or not, our system demands a final binary choice. We either support voting for an imperfect person or we enable a worse option to win. A non vote or third party vote is the latter. I’ve done the latter and I regret it.

Conflating the general election with the Republican nomination. The "lesser of two evils" plays no role whatsoever in the nomination of Trump to be the Republican nominee for President.

It's on Republican voters to choose between Trump and Haley and Densantis.

Biden is a Democrat. Hilarious that I have to point this out. Biden has NOTHING to do with who Republicans choose in their nomination process.

Biden ain't on the Republican nomination ballot, fellas.

[MDlaxfan76]

Whether we like it or not, our system demands a final binary choice. We either support voting for an imperfect person or we enable a worse option to win. A non vote or third party vote is the latter. I’ve done the latter and I regret it.

Conflating the general election with the Republican nomination. The "lesser of two evils" plays no role whatsoever in the nomination of Trump to be the Republican nominee for President.

It's on Republican voters to choose between Trump and Haley and Densantis.

Biden is a Democrat. Hilarious that I have to point this out. Biden has NOTHING to do with who Republicans choose in their nomination process.

Biden ain't on the Republican nomination ballot, fellas.

Just to be clear, did you think I disagree or not understand?

[a fan]

Whether we like it or not, our system demands a final binary choice. We either support voting for an imperfect person or we enable a worse option to win. A non vote or third party vote is the latter. I’ve done the latter and I regret it.

Conflating the general election with the Republican nomination. The "lesser of two evils" plays no role whatsoever in the nomination of Trump to be the Republican nominee for President.

It's on Republican voters to choose between Trump and Haley and Densantis.

Biden is a Democrat. Hilarious that I have to point this out. Biden has NOTHING to do with who Republicans choose in their nomination process.

Biden ain't on the Republican nomination ballot, fellas.

Just to be clear, did you think I disagree or not understand?

I think that the folks you are discussing this with don't understand.

Otherwise? They said mean things about Biden. Using their hair-brained logic, Biden's choices as President are their responsibility, since they are the ones who forced the Dem voters to nominate him by denigrating Biden and his voters.

So dumb. Yet they won't relent. "Nothing is my fault, mommy"....that's what we're getting here.

[MDlaxfan76]

Yes, Republicans are responsible for Trump, not Dems.

Speaking personally, My party affinity has actually grown to opposition. Opposition to the controlling faction, MAGA Trump cult. They now dominate. I’m in the 25-30% who would vote against him in a primary ( I voted Kasich like Kram) and in the 5% or so who have and will vote against him in the general.

I will also vote Democrat in any national race until MAGA no longer dominates, and I will vote Democrat against any MAGA candidate locally.

I voted Hogan twice, but then Moore given the MAGA nut job the state GOP put up.

Are all Republicans responsible for Trump and MAGA? No.

[a fan]

Are all Republicans responsible for Trump and MAGA? No.

They are in the sense that they didn't come up with a better leader to nominate for POTUS, and they were given three times to do it.

OS and Kram have no difficulty blaming the Dems for Hillary, Obama, and Biden.

It would never occur to them to blame the Republicans or Conservatives for the Dem POTUS nominees of the last 20 years. You will find that NO ONE made that asinine claim anywhere. Gee, I wonder why?

Which just shows you what partisanship does to the brains of otherwise reasonable people.

[Seacoaster(1)]

"Constant and predictable criticism of the opponent of Trump, and constant and predictable excuses and deflections of responsibility for Trump’s much worse flaws are, whether you mean to or not, a permission structure for Trump supporters."

Exactly right, and well said. And the denouement is happening, maybe literally, as I type this post. Bending the knee; falling in line; scurrying to catch up with the vanguard and likes of Stephen Miller, Kash Patel and Charlie Kirk. Off ramp after off ramp -- impeachment for attempting to bribe another nation into making up dirt on a domestic political opponent; inciting and standing by while a mob attacked the Capitol and deliberately impeded the transfer of power from one elected official to another; indictments; civil liability and damages for sexual assault -- and all to say nothing about his regular everyday racism and demonization of 52% of our fellow citizens. The cowardice of the GOP stands in a special league of its own. For Republicans in Congress, it is "debase for the base," without which none of them will get through a primary. Trump is the symbol of the malicious, cruel, xenophobic movement that binds GOP politicians to a base that simply wants destructive revenge.

Here is a post from the Leader of this movement:

"Anyone listening to Nikki “Nimrada” Haley’s wacked out speech last night, would think that she won the Iowa Primary. She didn’t, and she couldn’t even beat a very flawed Ron DeSanctimonious, who’s out of money, and out of hope. Nikki came in a distant THIRD! She said she would never run against me, “he was a great President,” and she should have followed her own advice. Now she’s stuck with WEAK POLICIES, and a VERY STRONG MAGA BASE, and there’s just nothing she can do!"

Later he called her "Nimbra." He trotted out the birtherism against her in another post. He mocks disabled people. He mocks veterans who gave their lives or were maimed in the course of their service. Most of us are "vermin." Immigrants taint our blood.

Compare Reagan: “I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and have lived here, even though some time back they may have entered illegally.”

"We call ourselves a nation of immigrants, and that’s truly what we are. We have drawn people from every corner of the Earth. We’re composed of virtually every race and religion, and not in small numbers, but large. We have a statue in New York Harbor that speaks of this, a statue of a woman holding a torch of welcome to those who enter our country to become Americans. She has greeted millions upon millions of immigrants to our country. She welcomes them still. She represents our open door.

All of the immigrants who came to us brought their own music, literature, customs, and ideas. And the marvelous thing, a thing of which we’re proud, is they did not have to relinquish these things in order to fit in. In fact, what they brought to America became American. And this diversity has more than enriched us; it has literally shaped us."

That was the GOP of my youth, with which I disagreed on myriad policies, but which wasn't cruel, nasty and policy free.

This spiral is owned by the GOP and the citizens who say, as Chris Sununu and countless others do, that they loath Trump, hate the rhetoric, etc., etc., but will vote for him anyway if he is the nominee. Small people cowering to a polluted, deplorable base. No need for "nuance." If the cruel racism works for you, keep propping him up.

[MDlaxfan76]

Are all Republicans responsible for Trump and MAGA? No.

They are in the sense that they didn't come up with a better leader to nominate for POTUS, and they were given three times to do it.

OS and Kram have no difficulty blaming the Dems for Hillary, Obama, and Biden.

It would never occur to them to blame the Republicans or Conservatives for the Dem POTUS nominees of the last 20 years. You will find that NO ONE made that asinine claim anywhere. Gee, I wonder why?

Which just shows you what partisanship does to the brains of otherwise reasonable people.

Yes, partisanship becomes unreasonable. Scrambles logic.

But I disagree re ‘all’, as, though many are enablers, some actively combat and are willing to cross party lines to continue the combat if they lose that first battle in the primaries.

But I do understand your logic challenge to some of our fellow posters.

[MDlaxfan76]

"Constant and predictable criticism of the opponent of Trump, and constant and predictable excuses and deflections of responsibility for Trump’s much worse flaws are, whether you mean to or not, a permission structure for Trump supporters."

Exactly right, and well said. And the denouement is happening, maybe literally, as I type this post. Bending the knee; falling in line; scurrying to catch up with the vanguard and likes of Stephen Miller, Kash Patel and Charlie Kirk. Off ramp after off ramp -- impeachment for attempting to bribe another nation into making up dirt on a domestic political opponent; inciting and standing by while a mob attacked the Capitol and deliberately impeded the transfer of power from one elected official to another; indictments; civil liability and damages for sexual assault -- and all to say nothing about his regular everyday racism and demonization of 52% of our fellow citizens. The cowardice of the GOP stands in a special league of its own. For Republicans in Congress, it is "debase for the base," without which none of them will get through a primary. Trump is the symbol of the malicious, cruel, xenophobic movement that binds GOP politicians to a base that simply wants destructive revenge.

Here is a post from the Leader of this movement:

"Anyone listening to Nikki “Nimrada” Haley’s wacked out speech last night, would think that she won the Iowa Primary. She didn’t, and she couldn’t even beat a very flawed Ron DeSanctimonious, who’s out of money, and out of hope. Nikki came in a distant THIRD! She said she would never run against me, “he was a great President,” and she should have followed her own advice. Now she’s stuck with WEAK POLICIES, and a VERY STRONG MAGA BASE, and there’s just nothing she can do!"

Later he called her "Nimbra." He trotted out the birtherism against her in another post. He mocks disabled people. He mocks veterans who gave their lives or were maimed in the course of their service. Most of us are "vermin." Immigrants taint our blood.

Compare Reagan: “I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and have lived here, even though some time back they may have entered illegally.”

"We call ourselves a nation of immigrants, and that’s truly what we are. We have drawn people from every corner of the Earth. We’re composed of virtually every race and religion, and not in small numbers, but large. We have a statue in New York Harbor that speaks of this, a statue of a woman holding a torch of welcome to those who enter our country to become Americans. She has greeted millions upon millions of immigrants to our country. She welcomes them still. She represents our open door.

All of the immigrants who came to us brought their own music, literature, customs, and ideas. And the marvelous thing, a thing of which we’re proud, is they did not have to relinquish these things in order to fit in. In fact, what they brought to America became American. And this diversity has more than enriched us; it has literally shaped us."

That was the GOP of my youth, with which I disagreed on myriad policies, but which wasn't cruel, nasty and policy free.

This spiral is owned by the GOP and the citizens who say, as Chris Sununu and countless others do, that they loath Trump, hate the rhetoric, etc., etc., but will vote for him anyway if he is the nominee. Small people cowering to a polluted, deplorable base. No need for "nuance." If the cruel racism works for you, keep propping him up.

Yes, those who ‘bend the knee’, whether in cowardice or in greed for power and favor, are fully complicit.

While we need a viable alternative to the opposing party, MAGA GOP adherence ain’t the answer.

[cradleandshoot]

So when the internal political conflict between Biden and trump gets hashed out how does either person ultimately deal with the tempest in a teapot in the ME? All the teeth gnashing and hand wringing won't matter a hill of beans if the ME blows up in the worlds face. A full blown all out shooting war will be catastrophic for the entire world. Has either candidate said what their plan is? Does either candidate even have a plan? The situation can't be ignored. It isn't like it is going to go away all on its own.

[old salt]

OS and Kram have no difficulty blaming the Dems for Hillary, Obama, and Biden.

It would never occur to them to blame the Republicans or Conservatives for the Dem POTUS nominees of the last 20 years. You will find that NO ONE made that asinine claim anywhere. Gee, I wonder why?

Which just shows you what partisanship does to the brains of otherwise reasonable people.

You waste a lot of page space with your childish, churlish rants & cut/paste games.
Discussion killers. Too long, tedious, & petty to even read, let alone merit a detailed response.

Some of us think our vote should count for something & aren't inclined to waste it when it doesn't.
Look at the value of an Independent or crossover Dem vote in NH right now, or Iowa caucus-goers.
They can keep Haley alive in the GOP race or set her up for a spot on a No Label's ticket or as Trump's running mate & successor.
The rest of us are just spectators, unless we vote in a battleground swing state, or a credible poll asks us.
Opinions expressed in this small forum are even more irrelevant than those in other social media.

[a fan]

OS and Kram have no difficulty blaming the Dems for Hillary, Obama, and Biden.

It would never occur to them to blame the Republicans or Conservatives for the Dem POTUS nominees of the last 20 years. You will find that NO ONE made that asinine claim anywhere. Gee, I wonder why?

Which just shows you what partisanship does to the brains of otherwise reasonable people.

You waste a lot of page space with your childish, churlish rants & cut/paste games.

Right. And you never dot hat, of course.

Discussion killers.

You don't want discussions. You want to post, and have everyone agree with everything you write. And if we don't? You yell
at us for "posting wrong".....it's too long. It's tedious. It's whatever excuse you can come up with to not consider that your fellow posters may be right, and you're wrong.

Have you EVER, even once, changed your mind about a subject discussed here, and said so in writing?

But sure, you want discussions, and I don't. GTFO of here with your nonsense.

You have two choices with you: agree with what you post, or ignore what you post. Because if you disagree with Old Salt? You get mad, and tell us we're all bad.

The rest of us are just spectators,

Yeah, you're lying here. Flat out lying.

You told us that the Libs and Dems specifically ARE NOT spectators. You told us that THEY are why Trump is your nominee. Several times. And mocked anyone who dared to point out how stupid your logic is.

And here you are, yelling at me again....why? Because your reasoning on this issue isn't fit for a toddler, let alone a man with your CV.

Republicans are why we have Trump. That's it. It's that complicated. Please, try and dazzle me with your logic, or better yet, your ad hominem attacks.

[old salt]

Rant, rant, rant.

It's very conducive to mutually informative & thought provoking conversation.

[a fan]

Rant, rant, rant.

It's very conducive to mutually informative & thought provoking conversation.

Right. Because that's what you want.

Want what you want? Easy to do.

Old Salt, you're right and so is the National Review: it IS the Dems and Libs fault why we have Trump. Republicans like you have NOTHING to do with who you nominate to be your Republican choice for President.

There's your idea of a discussion and an exchange of ideas. And that's what you're gonna get from now on, easy peasy.

[Farfromgeneva]

Are all Republicans responsible for Trump and MAGA? No.

They are in the sense that they didn't come up with a better leader to nominate for POTUS, and they were given three times to do it.

OS and Kram have no difficulty blaming the Dems for Hillary, Obama, and Biden.

It would never occur to them to blame the Republicans or Conservatives for the Dem POTUS nominees of the last 20 years. You will find that NO ONE made that asinine claim anywhere. Gee, I wonder why?

Which just shows you what partisanship does to the brains of otherwise reasonable people.

The only other Republican to be nominated three times is Richard Nixon…

Once, ok. Second time-he was incumbent. This time…just stop with the bs.

[Farfromgeneva]

DeSantis unloads on Trump right after endorsing him
Zachary Basu
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis may have endorsed former President Trump, but his rhetoric since dropping out of the GOP presidential race on Sunday suggests their bitter rivalry is far from over.

Why it matters: Most Republicans who have gone through phases of Trump skepticism or opposition — including candidates for president this cycle — ultimately end up "kissing the ring," as DeSantis himself described it.

Sen. Tim Scott (R-S.C), Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) and Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.) are among the latest examples.
But for DeSantis — whose promising campaign was crushed by relentless, often deeply personal attacks from Trump and his allies — the wounds appear too fresh to go quietly.
Driving the news: Just one day after dropping out of the race, DeSantis publicly vowed to veto a Republican proposal to authorize the use of Florida's tax dollars to pay Trump's legal bills.

On Tuesday, with the New Hampshire primary set to determine whether Trump will romp to the nomination, DeSantis appeared on "The Steve Deace Show" to sound the alarm about the man he just endorsed.
The Florida governor claimed that after months of boosting Trump as a "juggernaut" who will defeat President Biden, the "corporate media" has "flipped" to warning of the former president's vulnerabilities.

Screenshot via X
What they're saying: "I think that was part of the reason the turnout was low [in Iowa], because people had been told it's a fait accompli," DeSantis said. "Trump's up so much in the polls, he's got the nomination."

"It's a huge warning sign for Republicans nationally, based on what we saw in Iowa," he continued, citing lifelong conservatives he spoke to who said they couldn't bring themselves to vote for Trump again.
"So he's got to figure out a way to solve that. I think there's an enthusiasm problem overall."
Regarding New Hampshire, DeSantis cast doubt on some experts' predictions that there would be "record turnout."

"To the extent that turnout's up, it's probably going to be up amongst the more liberal voters who are coming out," DeSantis suggested.
He went on to hammer Trump for his handling of COVID and lamented that "no one else wanted to talk about" the pandemic during the campaign.
"This was one of the biggest events in our life. And yet we had one candidate who was the president at the start of it, and when he'd get interviewed, no one would even ask him questions about it!"
The intrigue: DeSantis saved fire for his former Republican colleagues in Congress, blasting them for what he called "failure theater."

"I would always ask audiences, 'Republicans took the House in 2022. Have you noticed a difference in anything that's happening?' And I never had anyone raise their hand and say things are better as a result," he said.
The vast majority of Republicans in Congress have endorsed Trump, with more expected to follow suit after New Hampshire.
What to watch: DeSantis, who is only 45 and will remain governor of Florida until 2026, was asked whether he would run again for president in 2028.

"We'll see what kind — if we have a country left by 2028," he quipped.
"I viewed '24 as really a hinge point in American history, and if we don't get it right, I don't know what it's going to look like in the future."