njbill - 1 Minute (2 Day) Penalty

[Can Opener]

I'll confess. Probably not a surprise to anyone, but I was the one who raised this with the admin when the negativity continued after the warning. I will also confess that I don't feel great about how hard I was whacking NJB on the CN stuff earlier. I wish I knew why, but something about going after female athletes really sets me off. DMac and I once fought a long crusade together against unsubstantiated rumors about the Yale women's team. DMac wound up in the hoosegow and I narrowly escaped as an unindicted co-conspirator. I have zero connection to the Yale program and only a narrow connection to the BC program. I don't know what to say other than it strikes me as a really bad look when grown men are going after young women. I gotta get over that. I guess it's also a little bit of a loss of innocence going on, as I've always found the parents on the sideline of a girls game to be 10X better behaved than the parents watching a boys game. I suppose I hoped that carried over here, but as several folks mentioned, we are well beyond the era where female athletes should be treated as fragile creatures. Very fair point. I have complimented NJB and Larry several times in our exchanges and those were sincere sentiments. We all love lacrosse. It is a big part of my life and of my family's life and I assume it is for them as well. This is supposed to be the fun part of our lives. No need for this stuff to raise blood pressures, since there is plenty of stress outside the fences of youth sports. I'd like to move past any animosity with my fellow competitors and get back to my statistical and Twitter research on BC lacrosse.

[admin]

You weren't the only who reported a post within the thread and... Penalty released...

[DMac]

It was a bum rap and I had poor council.
Plus the Judge was a prick.

The hoosegow? Probably a word I should be familiar with
but I wasn't. I like it, thanks.

Down at the hoosegow the bad boys do hang,
now even njbill's a part of the gang.

[Cletus]

I'm very glad there is less and less tolerance shown for name calling and belittling other members here on the D1 Women's Lacrosse boards. No more mob rules. No more "inner circle" meting out intimidation and threats.

From my perspective, admin makes it very easy to avoid the penalty box because he gives clear warning before he blows the whistle. I've been warned on a couple of occasions myself. It's hard to miss that big white box with ADMIN in black letters when it shows up in any thread. And just like what is stated from the broadcast booth in the women's game frequently by Sheehan Stanwick Burch: Yellow cards are a warning to everyone, not just the player who gets flagged. And so it is here. With each whistle and penalty assigned, a new standard is being set, and the message of zero tolerance is being communicated in no uncertain terms. The environment and atmosphere here is being changed as a result. I think admin and his staff are doing a bang up job at their clearly stated goal:

"Our goal is to make this party enjoyable for everyone."

[MDlaxfan76]

I don't think the severity of the comments is at issue. When the man says cool it, you cool it. If you keep it up, you have only yourself to blame. Can't say you weren't warned.

(And I mean "you" in the general sense.)

Totally agree.
If warned, expect a penalty when next infraction is observed...and that's a good thing for the reasons you describe and as Admin has explained.

Fully in favor.

My observation was more about how serious the actual series of infractions had been, rather tame in comparison to some of the stuff that goes on in other threads. But definitely testy and I see why there was a warning and then flag. No argument.

can opener, it's interesting that you found the parents at boys games to be worse than at girls games (and men's and women's) as I think you may be referring to the dads, not the moms...I thought the moms at my nieces games to be way rougher than most of what we heard from moms at boys games, but dads relatively quiet, and vice versa the men at boys games tended to be more outspoken, unsportsmanlike. Obviously most aren't, but the loudest...

I get it that you feel protective.

Not sure that you need to feel quite the same way about a young woman who just won a national championship and was named the most Outstanding Player and winner of the Tewey. She's on solid ground all on her own. If someone makes a statement akin to 'best ever', that's actually a bit dismissive of other young women who have played the game...likely to be some pushback. That said, I thought the points about stick technology unleashing some aspects to be interesting as well.

Though I would certainly think it would be highly unlikely that she wouldn't be on the US Team, it's not an attack on North to point out that there are other outstanding players who may well be just as deserving and may well be selected instead for specific fit.

It's up to the coaches selecting, posters here are just debating the merits of various selections...as someone who doesn't follow the women's game as closely as many of you, I found the back and forth interesting. Personally, I appreciated all the stats and comparative arguments, history of the game, etc.

I hope that you guys continue such discussions, just without the personal jabs.

[MDlaxfan76]

But if a warning had been issued, ok, take the flag. Last 'brush' gets the flag.

For sure there was a warning and, after the warning... a poster didn't let it go. What I don't know for sure, but I'd guess was the case, is that there was a complaint from a post-er before Admin issued the warning. Again, I don't know this for sure but I think Admin acts based on objective metrics but also on individual posters subjective experience. So if a poster feels attacked, Admin will take a look and, if reasonable, will ask for the room to cool down.

And I'm in favor of that. We really do want to be able have discussions civilly.

I just read most of that thread and I see how folks got irked with one another. Testy.
And I'm not so sure that Bill was solely not letting 'it go', post warning. Still both jostling.

But this really does pale in comparison to some of the nasty stuff that goes on in other threads, thus my saying 'brush' versus 'slash'. But if the ref warns about 'brushes' then expect a penalty with the next observed 'brush'.

No argument there.

This was minor stuff and I agree, a "brush".
Hell, you and I have had much bigger spats than that (I, of course, being the less gentlemanly) and always managed to kiss and make up. This was a bad call by the official here. No ifs, ands, or buts about that.

Funny, I guess we've had spats, but I must be getting old and senile as I don't recall any punches thrown...maybe like the guys we played against in HS and college, lots of sharp elbows, stick in the ribs, slap check on the exposed area between gloves and arm pads, whack to the back of the legs, hard hit lined up on the sidelines, chatter throughout...but post game at the party all invited and welcomed, laughs...

That said, I don't have with an issue with a closely reffed game, warning and then flag. Warning is the key.
Indeed, I'd prefer that these threads err that direction.

[Cletus]

I don't think the severity of the comments is at issue. When the man says cool it, you cool it. If you keep it up, you have only yourself to blame. Can't say you weren't warned.

(And I mean "you" in the general sense.)

I found the back and forth interesting. Personally, I appreciated all the stats and comparative arguments.

I hope that you guys continue such discussions, just without the personal jabs.

Hear, hear!

[Bart]

You weren't the only who reported a post within the thread and... Penalty released...

Your sandbox, your rules. But........it is ever apparent that some have thicker skin than others here. What some cry is an attack is more a statement of unsupported and informed sports babble. Some post "provocative" statements to stir debate which is just code for acting the internet troll. Then cry foul when their feet are held to the fire.

I find it interesting that what gets labeled as attacking between two anonymous posters often pales in comparison, imho, to what an anonymous poster says about a player or coach. The later gets you thrown in the sin bin while the former praised as just good "sports talk". (we've all done it)

[MDlaxfan76]

You weren't the only who reported a post within the thread and... Penalty released...

Your sandbox, your rules. But........it is ever apparent that some have thicker skin than others here. What some cry is an attack is more a statement of unsupported and informed sports babble. Some post "provocative" statements to stir debate which is just code for acting the internet troll. Then cry foul when their feet are held to the fire.

I find it interesting that what gets labeled as attacking between two anonymous posters often pales in comparison, imho, to what an anonymous poster says about a player or coach. The later gets you thrown in the sin bin while the former praised as just good "sports talk". (we've all done it)

Bart, did you mean the "former"...talk between posters gets you to the 'sin bin'...doghouse...penalty box...and the 'latter' talk about coaches, players etc does not? Or the reverse (as you wrote)?

Seems to me that we simply want people to talk about the topic not attack each other.

LP protected coaches and players as well, but at least IMO this was unevenly administrated, with some coaches getting protected against valid critique while others no protection...seemed like big favoritism going on. And the notion that we could not talk about players and coaches in ways critical seemed over the top...particularly when some of the more serious such topics were off limits unless reported in the press...in a sport where so much was purposely swept under the rug and otherwise ignored by the press unless it burst into view.

I appreciate the light administration we get, but do think we need to keep it civil and appreciate the Admin's process of warning then progressive penalties.

[Bart]

You weren't the only who reported a post within the thread and... Penalty released...

Your sandbox, your rules. But........it is ever apparent that some have thicker skin than others here. What some cry is an attack is more a statement of unsupported and informed sports babble. Some post "provocative" statements to stir debate which is just code for acting the internet troll. Then cry foul when their feet are held to the fire.

I find it interesting that what gets labeled as attacking between two anonymous posters often pales in comparison, imho, to what an anonymous poster says about a player or coach. The later gets you thrown in the sin bin while the former praised as just good "sports talk". (we've all done it)

Bart, did you mean the "former"...talk between posters gets you to the 'sin bin'...doghouse...penalty box...and the 'latter' talk about coaches, players etc does not? Or the reverse (as you wrote)?

Seems to me that we simply want people to talk about the topic not attack each other.

LP protected coaches and players as well, but at least IMO this was unevenly administrated, with some coaches getting protected against valid critique while others no protection...seemed like big favoritism going on. And the notion that we could not talk about players and coaches in ways critical seemed over the top...particularly when some of the more serious such topics were off limits unless reported in the press...in a sport where so much was purposely swept under the rug and otherwise ignored by the press unless it burst into view.

I appreciate the light administration we get, but do think we need to keep it civil and appreciate the Admin's process of warning then progressive penalties.

Attack players or coaches…. Your good. “Attack” anonymous poster. Off to the sin bin. I use attack against anonymous poster loosely

[Cletus]

Of course that's not his best line in this scene. The one about lighting up like a pinball machine is for the ages.

The suppressed (stunned? turned on?) expressions that pass over the face of Nurse Pilbow upon hearing that line is a fine bit of acting.

[Cletus]

I'm very glad there is less and less tolerance shown for name calling and belittling other members here on the D1 Women's Lacrosse boards. No more mob rules. No more "inner circle" meting out intimidation and threats.

From my perspective, admin makes it very easy to avoid the penalty box because he gives clear warning before he blows the whistle. I've been warned on a couple of occasions myself. It's hard to miss that big white box with ADMIN in black letters when it shows up in any thread. And just like what is stated from the broadcast booth in the women's game frequently by Sheehan Stanwick Burch: Yellow cards are a warning to everyone, not just the player who gets flagged. And so it is here. With each whistle and penalty assigned, a new standard is being set, and the message of zero tolerance is being communicated in no uncertain terms. The environment and atmosphere here is being changed as a result. I think admin and his staff are doing a bang up job at their clearly stated goal:

"Our goal is to make this party enjoyable for everyone."

Something else being cracked down on these boards is the macho thing. It's just another form of intimidation--to question anothers manhood, or toughness, or whatever one might refer to it as. I think all of us have experienced this in one form or another growing up male in America. There's always a group of toughs (read: bullies) in school, and life after school, who will call you names and try to intimidate you if you're not inclined as a pugilist, or if you don't measure up to what they consider tough or manly, if you don't fall in with them and their way of thinking. It's immature and childish. A lot of macho, chest-pounding bullsh*t that should have ended in grade school. Might Makes Right. That sentiment has no place at FanLax. Bullies and Intimidators aren't welcome here. Thank goodness for that.

“…we are called…to meet the challenge of a principle which, if it were to prevail, would be fatal to any civilized order in the world… Such a principle, stripped of all disguise, is surely the mere primitive doctrine that ‘might is right’. …if this principle were established throughout the world, the freedom of our own country … would be in danger. But far more than this -- the peoples of the world would be kept in the bondage of fear, and all hopes of settled peace and of the security of justice and liberty … would be ended."

--King George VI in Britain's declaration of war against Hitler's Nazi Germany.

[DMac]

The only question that remains now is how big of a mountain you're going to try to build from this mole hill. Kristalmighty, we're now into Nazi Germany because a couple of people had a little spat on an anonymous forum and another didn't like the way he was treated. Certainly appears to me is if you've got everything pretty much just the way you want it and have become Admin's fair haired boy so how 'bout you just give it a rest and move on at this point.

[Cletus]

The only question that remains now is how big of a mountain you're going to try to build from this mole hill. Kristalmighty, we're now into Nazi Germany because a couple of people had a little spat on an anonymous forum and another didn't like the way he was treated. Certainly appears to me is if you've got everything pretty much just the way you want it and have become Admin's fair haired boy so how 'bout you just give it a rest and move on at this point.

Happy Father's Day, DMac. I hope you get a chance to connect with your kids today. I hope they remind you of something you did or said that has been a blessing to them--and by extension, you.

[Cletus]

The only question that remains now is how big of a mountain you're going to try to build from this mole hill. Kristalmighty, we're now into Nazi Germany because a couple of people had a little spat on an anonymous forum and another didn't like the way he was treated.

I am referring to the larger issue of bullying and intimidation and insults on these boards, not just what went on between CO and Jersey. Nazi Germany is a perfect example of what happens when Might Makes Right. Stalin's regime, Idi Amin's Uganda, Japan in the 30's-40's are others. When members are attacked, insulted, belittled and/or intimidated--that's not a mole hill. Being on the receiving end is no fun--for anyone, in any forum, in any walk of life.

Certainly appears to me is if you've got everything pretty much just the way you want it and have become Admin's fair haired boy so how 'bout you just give it a rest and move on at this point.

More insults and attempts at intimidation right here.

That's what I'm speaking out against, and I will continue to speak out against it until it's gone from FanLax. Reading back through this topic, I find it encouraging that there are others speaking out against personal insults and attacks too, who are also in support of admin and his enforcement of the FanLax charter statement. To characterize this as "you've got everything pretty much just the way you want it and have become Admin's fair haired boy" ignores and trivializes the wishes of other members who disapprove of personal attacks and intimidation, not to mention what admin has stated as the goal for FL: "to make this party enjoyable for everyone."

When people are able to give their opinions and perspectives here without being insulted, I'll "give it a rest and move on".

[Bart]

I'm very glad there is less and less tolerance shown for name calling and belittling other members here on the D1 Women's Lacrosse boards. No more mob rules. No more "inner circle" meting out intimidation and threats.

From my perspective, admin makes it very easy to avoid the penalty box because he gives clear warning before he blows the whistle. I've been warned on a couple of occasions myself. It's hard to miss that big white box with ADMIN in black letters when it shows up in any thread. And just like what is stated from the broadcast booth in the women's game frequently by Sheehan Stanwick Burch: Yellow cards are a warning to everyone, not just the player who gets flagged. And so it is here. With each whistle and penalty assigned, a new standard is being set, and the message of zero tolerance is being communicated in no uncertain terms. The environment and atmosphere here is being changed as a result. I think admin and his staff are doing a bang up job at their clearly stated goal:

"Our goal is to make this party enjoyable for everyone."

Something else being cracked down on these boards is the macho thing. It's just another form of intimidation--to question anothers manhood, or toughness, or whatever one might refer to it as. I think all of us have experienced this in one form or another growing up male in America. There's always a group of toughs (read: bullies) in school, and life after school, who will call you names and try to intimidate you if you're not inclined as a pugilist, or if you don't measure up to what they consider tough or manly, if you don't fall in with them and their way of thinking. It's immature and childish. A lot of macho, chest-pounding bullsh*t that should have ended in grade school. Might Makes Right. That sentiment has no place at FanLax. Bullies and Intimidators aren't welcome here. Thank goodness for that.

“…we are called…to meet the challenge of a principle which, if it were to prevail, would be fatal to any civilized order in the world… Such a principle, stripped of all disguise, is surely the mere primitive doctrine that ‘might is right’. …if this principle were established throughout the world, the freedom of our own country … would be in danger. But far more than this -- the peoples of the world would be kept in the bondage of fear, and all hopes of settled peace and of the security of justice and liberty … would be ended."

--King George VI in Britain's declaration of war against Hitler's Nazi Germany.

Nice to see Goodwin’s Law is alive and well

[seacoaster]

I'm not sure we will see Bill back on the boards. I hope we do, but the penalty here was unwarranted.

[Cletus]

I'm not sure we will see Bill back on the boards. I hope we do, but the penalty here was unwarranted.

njbill telling another post-er, "You have an unhealthy, unnatural infatuation with this young woman. You pour over her stats again and again. You check her social media. And you call me creepy?" Not a personal attack?...

As Mr. No points out above, this warranted a penalty because it was indeed a personal attack, and more to the point, it prompted a direct warning by admin.

[DMac]

Nice to see Goodwin’s Law is alive and well

Absolutely love this, thank you.

[seacoaster]

I'm not sure we will see Bill back on the boards. I hope we do, but the penalty here was unwarranted.

njbill telling another post-er, "You have an unhealthy, unnatural infatuation with this young woman. You pour over her stats again and again. You check her social media. And you call me creepy?" Not a personal attack?...

As Mr. No points out above, this warranted a penalty because it was indeed a personal attack, and more to the point, it prompted a direct warning by admin.

We're going to have to agree to disagree, or just disagree here. Consistency is an important part of developing rules, and this penalty was -- again, in my view -- unwarranted if you look across the boards and the various discussions taking place.