A suggestion about trolling...

[Bart]

A complains on B and B gets a flag. Then aA complains on C and C gets a flag. A complains on D and D gets a flag. Then the forum is not being dictated by those in the forum rather than a single member in the forum.

The "people" of the forum is whittled down to person or a "few" people of the forum. If there are many, I do not know how to define it, posters who are complaining then this is "people. If it is one person then the forum etiquette is not people but person. Again, since we have no idea whom is posting complaints but have to assume it is people and not person.

Agreed. Which is why B, C, and D need to speak up. And, to be fair, A flags B, C, and D and Admin issues a warning or, very often, disagrees with A and does nothing.

But B, C and D may just have thicker skin......and don't report it.

[njbill]

DMac made a suggestion, which I have seconded, that ONW’s personal thread be locked... My two cents.

I guess the lock on his thread would be a punishment for posting elsewhere?

How would that be punishment? I would view punishment as either the issuance of a warning or a suspension. What other punishment does fanlax have? As I understand it, admin does not edit or delete specific posts. Is that not correct?

ONW would not be precluded from posting precisely the same content elsewhere, hopefully on an appropriate thread. His content would not be limited. He would not be censored.

As MD said, it would be a step towards reducing the friction on the board.

Another way of looking at it is that the initial purpose of the singular thread has now run its course. It no longer serves the function it was originally intended for.

So how about a poll in which regular women’s board posters could vote on whether or not to lock the thread? Let the majority rule.

[MDlaxfan76]

... I dunno that locking the thread does anything other than taking his name off a thread, itself clearly an annoyance to others.

And I think that may be the heart of the issue. Trolling is trolling. But is annoying flag-worthy? Can we punish someone for being annoying? Annoying to everybody, that sounds like trolling. But annoying to some, I dunno...

Fair question.
"annoying" being a gentle way to say it, of course.
I do think that the intent to be annoying is troublesome, a form of trolling, but as we know from some of the other trolling behaviors, simply being a bit combative or overly effusive pales in comparison to some other "Putinesque" behaviors.

IMO, what's become problematic on the women's thread is a single poster dominating the volume of posts, rather than an ongoing flow of various highly active posters, and less active posters, contributing to a robust discussion...sometimes combatively, but unless truly over the top, self-regulating.

But what others seem to be saying is that if they respond to the dominant poster negatively, he exaggerates offense, reports them, they get a warning or a penalty. Yes, undoubtedly ignored by Admin sometimes, perhaps even often, as well. We only see when Admin reacts.

I've urged posters to report if they think that ONW is personally attacking in a way that violates...but, like most other posters, I didn't do so yesterday when ONW went hot on my saying his posts were so excessive and 'fawning' to being 'bordering on creepy'. Pretty sure he reported me as well.

I was ok with simply responding to explain myself, as I did in response to your query as well.

On the flip side of fawning have been interchanges that have been about posters saying negative things about a player's character, not simply their play...people take offense and push back that such, in their opinion, shouldn't be said...that can get a little hot. Apparently ONW gets involved in those as well, reporting when the pushback is to him.

Others think the give and take is just fine. Indeed, that pushback is deserved, that ONW has an overly thin skin...while being purposely, intentionally, combative himself.

I'm not on these threads much, given no women family playing currently, but I can see how those who are wish something more could be done about a single poster being intentionally annoying.

[MDlaxfan76]

... At least in my lifetime of experience with lax fans, this is unique.

Based on what you're saying, I'm impressed by ONW. I get it, ONW's annoying. But there's something admirable about his passion for the game.

If this was from a real connection to the game, and simply a super fan, I'd agree 'passion'.

But without such:.

Weird. Strange. Obsessive. Bordering on creepy.

But for a fan site, probably 'admirable' too. Even if creepy...

[njbill]

Actual notice is notice in any context I can think of.

Agreed. And I think Admin would agree, too.

Perhaps you alerted admin to this recent kerfuffle, and he read up on recent posts. The point is, it can be done.

I did not. He knew about the thread because he got a flag. I'm 95% sure.

...if the women’s board is to be moderated differently than the other boards...

The women's board is not moderated differently. It's 100% the same as every other forum. I'm not sure why you think it's moderated differently. It sounds like you're asking for it to be moderated differently.

Perhaps you are saying it is not moderated differently in that admin only takes action if a post is reported regardless of which board is involved. But I think it is moderated differently in terms of what constitutes actionable language.

I mentioned this example already today, but in the avalanche of posts, maybe it got lost. A couple of days ago 0NW reported a post in which he was called “tedious.” Admin issued a warning against personal attacks. I can’t imagine that if someone on the men’s or politics board called someone “tedious,” and the post got reported, that that poster would’ve been issued a warning.

That is what I mean by “moderated differently.” Things said on this board draw warnings when if the exact same thing was said on the men’s or politics board, it would not.

[Brownlax]

I probably should have just walked on by. But I think the little video clips are annoying -- and probably intended, at some level, to annoy. Maybe you could keep them for your private thread and not burden the rest of us with them elsewhere? I know: you get to do what you want within the "Charter." I just think you are unnecessarily tedious. Have a good day.

Now that's just your preference Seacoaster, and you know it. Matnum P.I. uses GIF's all the time, right out in the open, all over the site. Indeed, it was he who inspired me to use them in the first place. You don't like GIF's and YouTube video clips--fine. That's your opinion which you are entitled to. But don't read ulterior motives into them and speak for the whole when it comes to how I choose to use them. That's annoying and unnecessarily tedious. As Matnum expressed in another place--the GIF/YT video clip expresses it much better than I choose to with words in a given context. That's my right and privilege as a card carrying member of FanLax.

Yes, I mentioned that your default to virtually any criticism of advice is that you "'get to do what you want within the "Charter.'" It's part of what makes you tedious. And I'm being kind.

So which is it--you criticizing and advising me against my use of video clips? Or asserting my right to express myself the way I choose within the rules on Fanlax? Your original comments were regarding my use of video clips.

You know Seacoaster--since you feel entitled to continue to make personal attacks against me--I'll offer a little feedback to you. What makes you tedious are your condescending, nasty comments. It is a subtle form of bullying and intimidation--plain and simple. I don't appreciate it.

ONW - please go back to your own post - PLEASE. You are so over the top annoying that you are literally ruining the Fan Lax experience for so many people.

[njbill]

... I dunno that locking the thread does anything other than taking his name off a thread, itself clearly an annoyance to others.

And I think that may be the heart of the issue. Trolling is trolling. But is annoying flag-worthy? Can we punish someone for being annoying? Annoying to everybody, that sounds like trolling. But annoying to some, I dunno...

Fair question.
"annoying" being a gentle way to say it, of course.
I do think that the intent to be annoying is troublesome, a form of trolling, but as we know from some of the other trolling behaviors, simply being a bit combative or overly effusive pales in comparison to some other "Putinesque" behaviors.

IMO, what's become problematic on the women's thread is a single poster dominating the volume of posts, rather than an ongoing flow of various highly active posters, and less active posters, contributing to a robust discussion...sometimes combatively, but unless truly over the top, self-regulating.

But what others seem to be saying is that if they respond to the dominant poster negatively, he exaggerates offense, reports them, they get a warning or a penalty. Yes, undoubtedly ignored by Admin sometimes, perhaps even often, as well. We only see when Admin reacts.

I've urged posters to report if they think that ONW is personally attacking in a way that violates...but, like most other posters, I didn't do so yesterday when ONW went hot on my saying his posts were so excessive and 'fawning' to being 'bordering on creepy'. Pretty sure he reported me as well.

I was ok with simply responding to explain myself, as I did in response to your query as well.

On the flip side of fawning have been interchanges that have been about posters saying negative things about a player's character, not simply their play...people take offense and push back that such, in their opinion, shouldn't be said...that can get a little hot. Apparently ONW gets involved in those as well, reporting when the pushback is to him.

Others think the give and take is just fine. Indeed, that pushback is deserved, that ONW has an overly thin skin...while being purposely, intentionally, combative himself.

I'm not on these threads much, given no women family playing currently, but I can see how those who are wish something more could be done about a single poster being intentionally annoying.

This is well said.

My own view is different in one respect. I do not like reporting posts. I have never done it, other than in a public post. I recognize, however, that others disagree with that, and that it is their right to use the reporting function on FanLax.

My preference is to fight my own battles and that other posters do the same.

In the past, ONW (or maybe it was one of his other aliases) expressly acknowledged that he intentionally trolls at times. I have cited that post a couple of times in the past, but won’t take the time today to find it.

If he attacks me, I won’t report the post, but I want to be able to respond in kind. To me, it seems to be the height of hypocrisy for him to report my post when I am simply responding to his attack.

There is no question that ONW is intentionally provocative and beyond at times. As I have said before, if you repeatedly say provocative things, you have to expect to get provocative responses. What sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander.

ONW does not simply use the report button to report posts directed at him which he finds offensive. Recently, he reported a post of mine that was not directed at him and did not deal with his favorite team (Boston College) or favorite player (Charlotte North).

I got a warning about personal attacks. The person to whom I directed my post did not report my post and did not express offense to it.

It would be one thing if ONW were simply acting as the Puritanical schoolmarm, reporting any and all uses of bad words, but that is not what he was doing. Rather, he did that simply to get at me. I considered it to be a personal attack. No, I don’t want 0NW warned or suspended, but I want to be able to respond, as I have done. I know ONW is not acting as the neutral hall monitor because he does not report offensive posts (e.g., from Can Opener) when he agrees with them.

[Matnum PI]

I mentioned this example already today, but in the avalanche of posts, maybe it got lost. A couple of days ago 0NW reported a post in which he was called “tedious.”...when if the exact same thing was said on the men’s or politics board, it would not.

That is true. First off, it was a warning. Just not that big a deal. Added to that, I'm sure Admin was issuing the warning so the discussion wouldn't escalate. i.e. tedious about njbill, i don't think that would've gotten a warning. tedious about ONW... Very different. Deservedly or not, ONW gets a lot of people's fur up. And we want to avoid this.

[Matnum PI]

I do think that the intent to be annoying is troublesome, a form of trolling...

I agree wholeheartedly. Jimmy is annoying and he's doing it on purpose, that's trolling. Jimmy is annoying and he genuinely can't help it, I have empathy for that guy. Obviously that's the black and white and, like in most of life, there are grays. But I think your word, in tent, is critical to how I'm experiencing this. I'm not convinced that Jimmy is intentionally annoying.

[Matnum PI]

...In the past, ONW (or maybe it was one of his other aliases) expressly acknowledged that he intentionally trolls at times. I have cited that post a couple of times in the past, but won’t take the time today to find it...

Yup. And he's served some time in the penalty box. Related to something else you said (which isn't quoted above), FWIW, from what i've seen and understand, when two posters are fighting, Admin will issue a warning. He fully recognizes that two posters are fighting and does not act. Warning and then, whether A or B or both, whoever conti9nues to fight, that poster gets the penalty. FWIW.

[njbill]

Hmm. So there is a double standard. I don’t think that’s a good thing.

[njbill]

...In the past, ONW (or maybe it was one of his other aliases) expressly acknowledged that he intentionally trolls at times. I have cited that post a couple of times in the past, but won’t take the time today to find it...

Yup. And he's served some time in the penalty box. Related to something else you said (which isn't quoted above), FWIW, from what i've seen and understand, when two posters are fighting, Admin will issue a warning. He fully recognizes that two posters are fighting and does not act. Warning and then, whether A or B or both, whoever conti9nues to fight, that poster gets the penalty. FWIW.

I think he only went in once.

If I have understood correctly what you have said, admin only steps in if one of the fighters reports one of the posts. If one fighter is a reporter and the other is not, the reporter has an advantage in my view.

I think you would acknowledge that, but say that is the way FanLax operates.

My operating protocol would be if two posters are fighting, let them continue to fight it out. If a third-party poster is so disgusted by the back-and-forth that he or she makes a report, perhaps then admin could step in. It just seems wrong that one, perhaps thin skinned, poster gets relief from admin for engaging in precisely the same type of conduct he complains about. Yeah, I know, press the report button . . . .

[MDlaxfan76]

I do think that the intent to be annoying is troublesome, a form of trolling...

I agree wholeheartedly. Jimmy is annoying and he's doing it on purpose, that's trolling. Jimmy is annoying and he genuinely can't help it, I have empathy for that guy. Obviously that's the black and white and, like in most of life, there are grays. But I think your word, in tent, is critical to how I'm experiencing this. I'm not convinced that Jimmy is intentionally annoying.

So...my logic re intent is that ONW knew that he'd annoyed numerous other posters, he acknowledged that...and he knew that he likes to post a lot more than other posters do, which some found to be annoying as well.

so, he created a special thread, named as his thread, and proposed to only post there, so as to not annoy others...the logic was spelled out...by him.

and it was working. He was posting a lot, but few arguments were breaking out between him and others, people could view his posts easily, or avoid them easily...peace reigned on the land...

He then decided (intent) to change his mind, fully cognizant that this decision would bother others, and he then expresses outrage that anyone is unhappy about it...etc, etc.

That's intent to annoy.

Is it a compulsion? Is it an obsession?
Does it matter?

[njbill]

Deservedly or not, ONW gets a lot of people's fur up. And we want to avoid this.

Perhaps, then, focus on the action and not the reaction.

How to avoid people getting their fur up? Certainly one way is for ONW to stop saying things that get people’s fur up. You have to concede that the majority sentiment on the women’s board is that he does. I noted in the past that when a large number of people who live in different parts of the country and who don’t know one another reach the same conclusion, that has to mean something.

I think he is intentionally trying to get furs up (he has acknowledged as much in the past), although it sounds like you may disagree.

To me, the “intentional” aspect of this has some significance and should play a role in how the problem is remedied.

Honestly, it is flabbergasting to me that FanLax evidently has a practice whereby if ONW is called something (tedious), admin issues a warning, but if another poster is called the same thing, no warning will ensue.

Look, it’s not the biggest problem in the world, but I find it exasperating.

[Matnum PI]

Hmm. So there is a double standard. I don’t think that’s a good thing.

I'm not following. Where's the double standard?

[Matnum PI]

Yeah, I know, press the report button . . . .

[Matnum PI]

That's intent to annoy.

Jimmy annoys people at school. Just not a popular kid. So he homeschools for a year. Then comes back. Is his coming back intent to annoy? I dunno. Maybe but doesn't strike me as provable without more information.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Yeah, I know, press the report button . . . .

[MDlaxfan76]

Hmm. So there is a double standard. I don’t think that’s a good thing.

I'm not following. Where's the double standard?

NJBill wrote:
Honestly, it is flabbergasting to me that FanLax evidently has a practice whereby if ONW is called something (tedious), admin issues a warning, but if another poster is called the same thing, no warning will ensue.

Look, it’s not the biggest problem in the world, but I find it exasperating.

Does that answer your question above?
I understand that your point is that if the other poster doesn't like being called 'tedious', they can ask for a flag to be thrown...but sheesh, "tedious"?

[MDlaxfan76]

That's intent to annoy.

Jimmy annoys people at school. Just not a popular kid. So he homeschools for a year. Then comes back. Is his coming back intent to annoy? I dunno. Maybe but doesn't strike me as provable without more information.

Interesting analogy.

Jimmy had incessant behaviors that others found annoying. Kicking the kid in front of him, making fun of another kid, making googly eyes at another, interrupting class over and over and over again...other kids get annoyed and tell him to knock it off...Jimmy goes to teacher and complains that he's "being bullied".

It continues. But then he comes up with a solution that allows him to act the same way, but now in his own very special classroom, named by him, after him.

Jimmy didn't homeschool, he just went into another classroom where others were free to join him, or not.

He told those he'd been annoying that he wouldn't come back to their classroom, would leave them alone, acknowledging that he'd been annoying, but wanted to continue to do the same behavior...but just not in their faces everyday, unless they chose to visit him.

Peace reigns.

He then decides to go back into their classroom, telling the others there that he doesn't care if he's annoying them, has every right to do so, and goes right back to asking teacher to punish others who get annoyed when he kicks someone and they say stop.

Yes, intent.
Maybe compulsion. Maybe obsession.
But that doesn't mean no intent.