January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[a fan]

Here's the thing folks don't get, but I bet China's leaders do: if they invade Taiwan? Taiwan will cease to be the economic and manufacturing engine that it is, rending the invasion pointless.

It's why they haven't invaded. Pretty obvious from where I sit.

So....imho? Let it go. And do what Biden did with the BiPartisan Chips bill: make it so Taiwan isn't the powerhouse for computer chips anymore.

THAT is using our overwhelming GDP to FINALLY outsmart our opponent, instead of using arms in with the idea that weapons and war solves EVERY problem.

...& you were convinced Putin was too broke & weak to invade Ukraine with his rusting army & measly GDP.

He had to institute a draft MONTHS into the invasion. Untrained sacks of meat, thrown into battle.

I was right. You and your fellow "experts" who think you don't need money to wage war were 1000% wrong. And instead of admitting that, horrors, you were wrong about something (oh no! not THAT!), you try and move the goalposts around until you're right in your own mind.

And how do you double down? After lecturing me that Putin doesn't need money to wage war? You then turn around and lecture the forum that the Ukraine war is (wait for it) costing the US military too much money. Money that we don't have.

Cool. Hypocrisy at every turn.

We can't use our overwhelming GDP to match his artillery shell production or produce enough air defenses for Ukraine to knock down his missiles & drones.

If the US got into this directly in a conventional war, we'd wipe Putin out in a matter of weeks. Putin can't beat Ukraine, which is like the Little Brother of the Poor Grammar school losing to Hopkins in

The chips you should be worried about are from Taiwan, not the ones in Biden's shrinkflation snack bag.
When will the chips bill replace what we need from Taiwan ? How long ?
Wait 'til you can't get the replacement parts you need for your business.

We (and you) played this same game with "we HAVE to have Middle East oil". Nope. We don't.

The solution to every problem for you is war. Makes sense, since that's how you were trained to think.

As for my business, like every factory manager who isn't an idiot, I have backups for all critical parts (including chipped components like our burner control system for our boiler) sitting on a shelf, gathering dust. They've been there since we opened our current building 10 years ago. If other business, and especially Fortune 500 companies with billions to burn, don't do that? Blame them, not Taiwan.

It's simple: if we can't get chips from Taiwan, the free market adapts. You will NEVER understand that, and you want the military to intercede any time the free market is threatened. You're a liberal. It's really that simple.

Taiwan shuts down? American plants will pop up. Simple. It's already happening, and naturally, you want to throw stones because Biden has a D by his name. If Trump did this? You'd be on here telling us how cool the Chips Act is.

[a fan]

Ya see, MDLax....Old Salt thinks that ONLY Republicans can meet with Democratically elected leaders. If a Dem does it? Oh, that's bad.

If a R does it? Shut up, and don't complain.

Rinse. Repeat. For EVERYTHING Old Salt "thinks".

(Old Salt crying about how "that was different...." in 3, 2, 1.......)

Old Salt gives one a pass, and the other involving the letter D was bad. Neat how that always works with him, no?

Protip: BOTH meetings were foolish. Call balls and strikes, instead of rooting for R's, and castigating D's for doing the same doggone thing.

This is why our country is circling the drain: if they have a magic R by their name? Everything is sunshine and rainbows.

Wah, wah, wah.
Pelosi's visit caused a military reprisal against Taiwan by the PRC.

That's right. So it would seem that it there's more to this Orban story than "meeting with a Democratically elected leader", as you put it.

There are consequences for both Pelosi and Trump's visits. You know: the WHOLE point.

Biden & Blinken didn't want her to go. I criticized (R)'s for visiting later.

That's right! So then don't come on here and tell us that Trump meeting with Orban is just no big deal, stop complaining.

You are a gutless weasel to name check me when posting to others & lying when speaking on my behalf.
If you have an issue with me, show some stones & address me directly.

Right. You would NEVER call out other poster's ideas without quoting them directly.

I've done it before. So have you. Suddenly, this is an issue? Okay. You have more and more Forum rules every day.

[Kismet]

You are a gutless weasel to name check me when posting to others & lying when speaking on my behalf.
If you have an issue with me, show some stones & address me directly.

Some (of which you are a poster boy) do this every effing day around here and you ignore it and prattle on.
Grow a set yourself and STFU please.

Nobody cares if you're put off about much of anything .

[PizzaSnake]

Here's the thing folks don't get, but I bet China's leaders do: if they invade Taiwan? Taiwan will cease to be the economic and manufacturing engine that it is, rending the invasion pointless.

It's why they haven't invaded. Pretty obvious from where I sit.

So....imho? Let it go. And do what Biden did with the BiPartisan Chips bill: make it so Taiwan isn't the powerhouse for computer chips anymore.

THAT is using our overwhelming GDP to FINALLY outsmart our opponent, instead of using arms in with the idea that weapons and war solves EVERY problem.

...& you were convinced Putin was too broke & weak to invade Ukraine with his rusting army & measly GDP.

He had to institute a draft MONTHS into the invasion. Untrained sacks of meat, thrown into battle.

I was right. You and your fellow "experts" who think you don't need money to wage war were 1000% wrong. And instead of admitting that, horrors, you were wrong about something (oh no! not THAT!), you try and move the goalposts around until you're right in your own mind.

And how do you double down? After lecturing me that Putin doesn't need money to wage war? You then turn around and lecture the forum that the Ukraine war is (wait for it) costing the US military too much money. Money that we don't have.

Cool. Hypocrisy at every turn.

We can't use our overwhelming GDP to match his artillery shell production or produce enough air defenses for Ukraine to knock down his missiles & drones.

If the US got into this directly in a conventional war, we'd wipe Putin out in a matter of weeks. Putin can't beat Ukraine, which is like the Little Brother of the Poor Grammar school losing to Hopkins in

The chips you should be worried about are from Taiwan, not the ones in Biden's shrinkflation snack bag.
When will the chips bill replace what we need from Taiwan ? How long ?
Wait 'til you can't get the replacement parts you need for your business.

We (and you) played this same game with "we HAVE to have Middle East oil". Nope. We don't.

The solution to every problem for you is war. Makes sense, since that's how you were trained to think.

As for my business, like every factory manager who isn't an idiot, I have backups for all critical parts (including chipped components like our burner control system for our boiler) sitting on a shelf, gathering dust. They've been there since we opened our current building 10 years ago. If other business, and especially Fortune 500 companies with billions to burn, don't do that? Blame them, not Taiwan.

It's simple: if we can't get chips from Taiwan, the free market adapts. You will NEVER understand that, and you want the military to intercede any time the free market is threatened. You're a liberal. It's really that simple.

Taiwan shuts down? American plants will pop up. Simple. It's already happening, and naturally, you want to throw stones because Biden has a D by his name. If Trump did this? You'd be on here telling us how cool the Chips Act is.

“ I have backups for all critical parts (including chipped components like our burner control system for our boiler) sitting on a shelf, gathering dust.”

I hope you periodically test them.

[PizzaSnake]

Ya see, MDLax....Old Salt thinks that ONLY Republicans can meet with Democratically elected leaders. If a Dem does it? Oh, that's bad.

If a R does it? Shut up, and don't complain.

Rinse. Repeat. For EVERYTHING Old Salt "thinks".

(Old Salt crying about how "that was different...." in 3, 2, 1.......)

Old Salt gives one a pass, and the other involving the letter D was bad. Neat how that always works with him, no?

Protip: BOTH meetings were foolish. Call balls and strikes, instead of rooting for R's, and castigating D's for doing the same doggone thing.

This is why our country is circling the drain: if they have a magic R by their name? Everything is sunshine and rainbows.

Wah, wah, wah.
Pelosi's visit caused a military reprisal against Taiwan by the PRC.

That's right. So it would seem that it there's more to this Orban story than "meeting with a Democratically elected leader", as you put it.

There are consequences for both Pelosi and Trump's visits. You know: the WHOLE point.

Biden & Blinken didn't want her to go. I criticized (R)'s for visiting later.

That's right! So then don't come on here and tell us that Trump meeting with Orban is just no big deal, stop complaining.

You are a gutless weasel to name check me when posting to others & lying when speaking on my behalf.
If you have an issue with me, show some stones & address me directly.

Right. You would NEVER call out other poster's ideas without quoting them directly.

I've done it before. So have you. Suddenly, this is an issue? Okay. You have more and more Forum rules every day.

2025 addenda.

[a fan]

Here's the thing folks don't get, but I bet China's leaders do: if they invade Taiwan? Taiwan will cease to be the economic and manufacturing engine that it is, rending the invasion pointless.

It's why they haven't invaded. Pretty obvious from where I sit.

So....imho? Let it go. And do what Biden did with the BiPartisan Chips bill: make it so Taiwan isn't the powerhouse for computer chips anymore.

THAT is using our overwhelming GDP to FINALLY outsmart our opponent, instead of using arms in with the idea that weapons and war solves EVERY problem.

...& you were convinced Putin was too broke & weak to invade Ukraine with his rusting army & measly GDP.

He had to institute a draft MONTHS into the invasion. Untrained sacks of meat, thrown into battle.

I was right. You and your fellow "experts" who think you don't need money to wage war were 1000% wrong. And instead of admitting that, horrors, you were wrong about something (oh no! not THAT!), you try and move the goalposts around until you're right in your own mind.

And how do you double down? After lecturing me that Putin doesn't need money to wage war? You then turn around and lecture the forum that the Ukraine war is (wait for it) costing the US military too much money. Money that we don't have.

Cool. Hypocrisy at every turn.

We can't use our overwhelming GDP to match his artillery shell production or produce enough air defenses for Ukraine to knock down his missiles & drones.

If the US got into this directly in a conventional war, we'd wipe Putin out in a matter of weeks. Putin can't beat Ukraine, which is like the Little Brother of the Poor Grammar school losing to Hopkins in

The chips you should be worried about are from Taiwan, not the ones in Biden's shrinkflation snack bag.
When will the chips bill replace what we need from Taiwan ? How long ?
Wait 'til you can't get the replacement parts you need for your business.

We (and you) played this same game with "we HAVE to have Middle East oil". Nope. We don't.

The solution to every problem for you is war. Makes sense, since that's how you were trained to think.

As for my business, like every factory manager who isn't an idiot, I have backups for all critical parts (including chipped components like our burner control system for our boiler) sitting on a shelf, gathering dust. They've been there since we opened our current building 10 years ago. If other business, and especially Fortune 500 companies with billions to burn, don't do that? Blame them, not Taiwan.

It's simple: if we can't get chips from Taiwan, the free market adapts. You will NEVER understand that, and you want the military to intercede any time the free market is threatened. You're a liberal. It's really that simple.

Taiwan shuts down? American plants will pop up. Simple. It's already happening, and naturally, you want to throw stones because Biden has a D by his name. If Trump did this? You'd be on here telling us how cool the Chips Act is.

“ I have backups for all critical parts (including chipped components like our burner control system for our boiler) sitting on a shelf, gathering dust.”

I hope you periodically test them.

We do, thanks! Well, the ones with electronics, that is. And update them when they become obsolete......off the top of my head, we've done that three times.

We're hitting our 25th anniversary. Every mature and experienced business/factory operates like this in 2024. All map out critical paths and the pieces of equipment involved, lead times, risk of down time, etc. We just finished replacing all of our pressure relief valves, for example. After we replace them with fresh valves.....our supplier takes them in, refurbishes them, and and sends them back. This gives us full tested spares on the shelf, ready to go, and keeps the guys happy knowing we're doing everything we can to keep the floor safe from accidents.

What's great are the unbelievably simple to use Maintenance softwares out there that lets you program out your maintenance and/or cataloguing and testing using your phones. Spent the last three years slowly cataloguing every component in our shop, when it needs to be cleaned/tested/maintained/replaced. Pictures are included, as well as three separate sources and current pricing for when they need to be replaced. We update these sources and pricing every other year.

It's IMMENSELY helpful to have daily/monthly/yearly software reminders of all these tasks, so we can easily and quickly distribute the work throughout the year. Sure wasn't like this when I started!

[old salt]

Here's the thing folks don't get, but I bet China's leaders do: if they invade Taiwan? Taiwan will cease to be the economic and manufacturing engine that it is, rending the invasion pointless.

It's why they haven't invaded. Pretty obvious from where I sit.

So....imho? Let it go. And do what Biden did with the BiPartisan Chips bill: make it so Taiwan isn't the powerhouse for computer chips anymore.

THAT is using our overwhelming GDP to FINALLY outsmart our opponent, instead of using arms in with the idea that weapons and war solves EVERY problem.

...& you were convinced Putin was too broke & weak to invade Ukraine with his rusting army & measly GDP.

He had to institute a draft MONTHS into the invasion. Untrained sacks of meat, thrown into battle.

I was right. You and your fellow "experts" who think you don't need money to wage war were 1000% wrong. And instead of admitting that, horrors, you were wrong about something (oh no! not THAT!), you try and move the goalposts around until you're right in your own mind.

And how do you double down? After lecturing me that Putin doesn't need money to wage war? You then turn around and lecture the forum that the Ukraine war is (wait for it) costing the US military too much money. Money that we don't have.

Cool. Hypocrisy at every turn.

We can't use our overwhelming GDP to match his artillery shell production or produce enough air defenses for Ukraine to knock down his missiles & drones.

If the US got into this directly in a conventional war, we'd wipe Putin out in a matter of weeks. Putin can't beat Ukraine, which is like the Little Brother of the Poor Grammar school losing to Hopkins in

The chips you should be worried about are from Taiwan, not the ones in Biden's shrinkflation snack bag.
When will the chips bill replace what we need from Taiwan ? How long ?
Wait 'til you can't get the replacement parts you need for your business.

We (and you) played this same game with "we HAVE to have Middle East oil". Nope. We don't.

The solution to every problem for you is war. Makes sense, since that's how you were trained to think.

As for my business, like every factory manager who isn't an idiot, I have backups for all critical parts (including chipped components like our burner control system for our boiler) sitting on a shelf, gathering dust. They've been there since we opened our current building 10 years ago. If other business, and especially Fortune 500 companies with billions to burn, don't do that? Blame them, not Taiwan.

It's simple: if we can't get chips from Taiwan, the free market adapts. You will NEVER understand that, and you want the military to intercede any time the free market is threatened. You're a liberal. It's really that simple.

Taiwan shuts down? American plants will pop up. Simple. It's already happening, and naturally, you want to throw stones because Biden has a D by his name. If Trump did this? You'd be on here telling us how cool the Chips Act is.

A draft is no big deal. Most countries at war have conscription. Ukraine banned military aged men from leaving the country.
Russia is still not fully mobilized for war.

I've not complained about the $$$ for providing defensive military aid to UKraine in the form of US made weapons & munitions. It's the $$$ to run their govt that bothers me. EU countries who can't provide military aid can provide the nonmilitary aid. I've crIticized the waste of weapons, munitions & soldiers in failed offensive operations which the West's defense industrial base still can't sustain.

You seem to forget US auto & appliance production shutting down for chip shortages. I'm not for a war to save Taiwan. I'm for deterring a war for Taiwan by SELLING them US made weapons & maintaining "strategic ambiguity" with our military presence. We can't maintain that if we're not there & don't help arm Taiwan.

I don't name check you in posts where I don't quote you, so you know I'm doing it.
I may not read every post you make where you misrepresent my position.

[old salt]

You are a gutless weasel to name check me when posting to others & lying when speaking on my behalf.
If you have an issue with me, show some stones & address me directly.

Some (of which you are a poster boy) do this every effing day around here and you ignore it and prattle on.
Grow a set yourself and STFU please.

Nobody cares if you're put off about much of anything .

You don't get it. I don't call out other posters without quoting them, so they will see it.
...like you wondering what I might think of something.
I don't have the time or inclination to read every post in this toxic forum.
If you want to know what I think about something, quote me & ask me, so I will see it.
Otherwise, it's just gutless cheap shots.

[Kismet]

You are a gutless weasel to name check me when posting to others & lying when speaking on my behalf.
If you have an issue with me, show some stones & address me directly.

Some (of which you are a poster boy) do this every effing day around here and you ignore it and prattle on.
Grow a set yourself and STFU please.

Nobody cares if you're put off about much of anything .

You don't get it. I don't call out other posters without quoting them, so they will see it.
...like you wondering what I might think of something.
I don't have the time or inclination to read every post in this toxic forum.
If you want to know what I think about something, quote me & ask me, so I will see it.
Otherwise, it's just gutless cheap shots.

Got it Trumpelthinskin

Trouble with asking you is that you often don't answer.

[a fan]

A draft is no big deal. Most countries at war have conscription. Ukraine banned military aged men from leaving the country.
Russia is still not fully mobilized for war.

If we called a draft after invading Iraq or Afghanistan, you're telling me that that would "be no big deal"? Please. And the Iraqis were far more dangerous than the Ukrainians sans US help.

I've not complained about the $$$ for providing defensive military aid to UKraine in the form of US made weapons & munitions.

Buffalo bagels. You have criticized the cost of helping Ukraine that MULTIPLE times. I can pull up the posts if you're really that bored.

But that's 100% gaslighting and besides the point. The point, as you very well know, and are trying to avoid, is: you need money, lots of it, to wage war and invade (and hold) nations. Even this lowly distiller has read enough from Herodotus, Clausewitz, et. al to figure that out. Empires collapse all the time by overextending their war ambitions. I TRIED to tell you this with Putin, and you wouldn't hear it.

But now the Ukraine is running out of stuff, you want to come back and pretend you didn't reject the need for money to wage war when it applied to Putin. You're on here telling us that "you need GDP and money for war" ONLY applies to the US and Ukraine. It's silly. Just admit you made a wrong call, and move on. I don't understand why you struggle to do that. I can't go a week on this forum without saying something that's wrong. Heck, just a few days ago, i was sure that a Costas interview was AI. Whoops. Admit error, and move on. Who cares?

You seem to forget US auto & appliance production shutting down for chip shortages.

I'm not forgetting a thing. How'd we do in that shortage? Fine. We did just fine. GDP was up, and we did fine.

There's a MASSIVE difference between wants and needs, and military wonks can't seem to learn that lesson, no matter how many times they confuse the two, leading to sh(tty long (and even short) term decisions. America shouldn't act like they're a Fortune 500 CEO where they cater to the quarter. They should ALWAYS think long term. Something, for example, Putin has miserably failed at....

I'm not for a war to save Taiwan. I'm for deterring a war for Taiwan by SELLING them US made weapons & maintaining "strategic ambiguity" with our military presence. We can't maintain that if we're not there & don't help arm Taiwan.

You are absolutely prepping for war to save Taiwan. Come ON. What the F do you think "strategic ambiguity" means, if there's 0% chance America will go to war if Taiwan is invaded. Come on man, you're smarter than this.

And what's up next that you feign surprise at, even though we've seen this play out over, and over and over again?

Mission Creep.

Mission creep that leads to a sh*t-ton of unforeseen consequences. Not the least of which are popping bases in countries, that are followed by guys like you who tell us "oh, we can NEVER leave now". I'm SICK of military wonks being unable to think past their nose when cobbling together strategies.

I don't name check you in posts where I don't quote you, so you know I'm doing it.
I may not read every post you make where you misrepresent my position.

Look, I'll be more careful in the future if it bothers you.

But dude: you cite others, and make fun of posters in general without naming them or directly quoting them ALL THE TIME. We ALL do. Fail to see the harm, but I'll work on it.

[old salt]

You are a gutless weasel to name check me when posting to others & lying when speaking on my behalf.
If you have an issue with me, show some stones & address me directly.

Some (of which you are a poster boy) do this every effing day around here and you ignore it and prattle on.
Grow a set yourself and STFU please.

Nobody cares if you're put off about much of anything .

You don't get it. I don't call out other posters without quoting them, so they will see it.
...like you wondering what I might think of something.
I don't have the time or inclination to read every post in this toxic forum.
If you want to know what I think about something, quote me & ask me, so I will see it.
Otherwise, it's just gutless cheap shots.

Got it Trumpelthinskin

Trouble with asking you is that you often don't answer.

I probably don't see it. If you quote me, I'll get a notification.
If I don't see it, I can't respond.

[old salt]

A draft is no big deal. Most countries at war have conscription. Ukraine banned military aged men from leaving the country.
Russia is still not fully mobilized for war.

If we called a draft after invading Iraq or Afghanistan, you're telling me that that would "be no big deal"? Please. And the Iraqis were far more dangerous than the Ukrainians sans US help.

I've not complained about the $$$ for providing defensive military aid to UKraine in the form of US made weapons & munitions.

Buffalo bagels. You have criticized the cost of helping Ukraine that MULTIPLE times. I can pull up the posts if you're really that bored.

But that's 100% gaslighting and besides the point. The point, as you very well know, and are trying to avoid, is: you need money, lots of it, to wage war and invade (and hold) nations. Even this lowly distiller has read enough from Herodotus, Clausewitz, et. al to figure that out. Empires collapse all the time by overextending their war ambitions. I TRIED to tell you this with Putin, and you wouldn't hear it.

But now the Ukraine is running out of stuff, you want to come back and pretend you didn't reject the need for money to wage war when it applied to Putin. You're on here telling us that "you need GDP and money for war" ONLY applies to the US and Ukraine. It's silly. Just admit you made a wrong call, and move on. I don't understand why you struggle to do that. I can't go a week on this forum without saying something that's wrong. Heck, just a few days ago, i was sure that a Costas interview was AI. Whoops. Admit error, and move on. Who cares?

You seem to forget US auto & appliance production shutting down for chip shortages.

I'm not forgetting a thing. How'd we do in that shortage? Fine. We did just fine. GDP was up, and we did fine.

There's a MASSIVE difference between wants and needs, and military wonks can't seem to learn that lesson, no matter how many times they confuse the two, leading to sh(tty long (and even short) term decisions. America shouldn't act like they're a Fortune 500 CEO where they cater to the quarter. They should ALWAYS think long term. Something, for example, Putin has miserably failed at....

I'm not for a war to save Taiwan. I'm for deterring a war for Taiwan by SELLING them US made weapons & maintaining "strategic ambiguity" with our military presence. We can't maintain that if we're not there & don't help arm Taiwan.

You are absolutely prepping for war to save Taiwan. Come ON. What the F do you think "strategic ambiguity" means, if there's 0% chance America will go to war if Taiwan is invaded. Come on man, you're smarter than this.

And what's up next that you feign surprise at, even though we've seen this play out over, and over and over again?

Mission Creep.

Mission creep that leads to a sh*t-ton of unforeseen consequences. Not the least of which are popping bases in countries, that are followed by guys like you who tell us "oh, we can NEVER leave now". I'm SICK of military wonks being unable to think past their nose when cobbling together strategies.

I don't name check you in posts where I don't quote you, so you know I'm doing it.
I may not read every post you make where you misrepresent my position.

Look, I'll be more careful in the future if it bothers you.

But dude: you cite others, and make fun of posters in general without naming them or directly quoting them ALL THE TIME. We ALL do. Fail to see the harm, but I'll work on it.

Dating back to 2014, I've stated numerous times that I support defensive US-made military aid. You just don't get the distinction. The rest is your gaslighting.

Re Taiwan & strategic ambiguity, you clearly don't understand the concept of deterrence & how it has worked in the past.
It's how we won the Cold War.

The last time we fully mobilized for war was Vietnam. We needed & had a draft then.
My limits on military aid to Ukraine are to prevent mission creep & to end the slaughter before we are drawn in.
You may recall, I objected to our involvement in Ukraine as far back as 2004 in my posts about the Finlandization of Ukraine.

If you name check me, quote me so I see it & can respond.

[Kismet]

You are a gutless weasel to name check me when posting to others & lying when speaking on my behalf.
If you have an issue with me, show some stones & address me directly.

Some (of which you are a poster boy) do this every effing day around here and you ignore it and prattle on.
Grow a set yourself and STFU please.

Nobody cares if you're put off about much of anything .

You don't get it. I don't call out other posters without quoting them, so they will see it.
...like you wondering what I might think of something.
I don't have the time or inclination to read every post in this toxic forum.
If you want to know what I think about something, quote me & ask me, so I will see it.
Otherwise, it's just gutless cheap shots.

Got it Trumpelthinskin

Trouble with asking you is that you often don't answer.

I probably don't see it. If you quote me, I'll get a notification.
If I don't see it, I can't respond.

You actually miss quite a lot around here.

[a fan]

Dating back to 2014, I've stated numerous times that I support defensive US-made military aid. You just don't get the distinction. The rest is your gaslighting.

Oh, yes I do. For one, they give us money. For the other, we give it out for free. That's it. That's the distinction.

You want the distinction to be larger than that. It's not. Sorry.

Re Taiwan & strategic ambiguity, you clearly don't understand the concept of deterrence & how it has worked in the past.
It's how we won the Cold War.

Right. If the Soviets invaded NATO, what would have happened? THAT is deterrence.

In order for strategic ambiguity to work, there has to be---at a minimum--- a decent chance that we will respond militarily Please, try and tell me otherwise. This ain't complicated math, Old Salt: if there is ZERO chance will will respond to a Chinese invasion, where the firetruck do you think the "ambiguity" lies?

Go ahead and school me. I'll wait.

The last time we fully mobilized for war was Vietnam. We needed & had a draft then.

No. The last time the US FULLY mobilized was WWII. Vietnam? We went about our daily lives at home.

My limits on military aid to Ukraine are to prevent mission creep & to end the slaughter before we are drawn in.

Oh, I know. That's what you military wonks ALWAYS say. BEFORE the mission creep shows up. It's how we got to the total logic fail where you told me that we could never leave Afghanistan.

And you military wonks also conveniently forget that these involvement last through MULTIPLE Presidents. You know: the guy who's in charge of deciding how to handle "mission creep". Changes in Admin. is one of the biggest reasons we get the mission creep. See: Nixon and Vietnam.

You'll never learn this lesson, and neither will American military wonks who think in weeks and months, not decades and centuries.

You may recall, I objected to our involvement in Ukraine as far back as 2004 in my posts about the Finlandization of Ukraine.

Oh, I do. But you're leaving out that you changed your mind when Trump sent arms and training to them. You supported the move. And bragged about it later as saving Ukraine's bacon. That is "involvement", my man. More specifically "military involvement".

You changed your mind, which you are allowed to do, of course.

[PizzaSnake]

Here's the thing folks don't get, but I bet China's leaders do: if they invade Taiwan? Taiwan will cease to be the economic and manufacturing engine that it is, rending the invasion pointless.

It's why they haven't invaded. Pretty obvious from where I sit.

So....imho? Let it go. And do what Biden did with the BiPartisan Chips bill: make it so Taiwan isn't the powerhouse for computer chips anymore.

THAT is using our overwhelming GDP to FINALLY outsmart our opponent, instead of using arms in with the idea that weapons and war solves EVERY problem.

...& you were convinced Putin was too broke & weak to invade Ukraine with his rusting army & measly GDP.

He had to institute a draft MONTHS into the invasion. Untrained sacks of meat, thrown into battle.

I was right. You and your fellow "experts" who think you don't need money to wage war were 1000% wrong. And instead of admitting that, horrors, you were wrong about something (oh no! not THAT!), you try and move the goalposts around until you're right in your own mind.

And how do you double down? After lecturing me that Putin doesn't need money to wage war? You then turn around and lecture the forum that the Ukraine war is (wait for it) costing the US military too much money. Money that we don't have.

Cool. Hypocrisy at every turn.

We can't use our overwhelming GDP to match his artillery shell production or produce enough air defenses for Ukraine to knock down his missiles & drones.

If the US got into this directly in a conventional war, we'd wipe Putin out in a matter of weeks. Putin can't beat Ukraine, which is like the Little Brother of the Poor Grammar school losing to Hopkins in

The chips you should be worried about are from Taiwan, not the ones in Biden's shrinkflation snack bag.
When will the chips bill replace what we need from Taiwan ? How long ?
Wait 'til you can't get the replacement parts you need for your business.

We (and you) played this same game with "we HAVE to have Middle East oil". Nope. We don't.

The solution to every problem for you is war. Makes sense, since that's how you were trained to think.

As for my business, like every factory manager who isn't an idiot, I have backups for all critical parts (including chipped components like our burner control system for our boiler) sitting on a shelf, gathering dust. They've been there since we opened our current building 10 years ago. If other business, and especially Fortune 500 companies with billions to burn, don't do that? Blame them, not Taiwan.

It's simple: if we can't get chips from Taiwan, the free market adapts. You will NEVER understand that, and you want the military to intercede any time the free market is threatened. You're a liberal. It's really that simple.

Taiwan shuts down? American plants will pop up. Simple. It's already happening, and naturally, you want to throw stones because Biden has a D by his name. If Trump did this? You'd be on here telling us how cool the Chips Act is.

“ I have backups for all critical parts (including chipped components like our burner control system for our boiler) sitting on a shelf, gathering dust.”

I hope you periodically test them.

We do, thanks! Well, the ones with electronics, that is. And update them when they become obsolete......off the top of my head, we've done that three times.

We're hitting our 25th anniversary. Every mature and experienced business/factory operates like this in 2024. All map out critical paths and the pieces of equipment involved, lead times, risk of down time, etc. We just finished replacing all of our pressure relief valves, for example. After we replace them with fresh valves.....our supplier takes them in, refurbishes them, and and sends them back. This gives us full tested spares on the shelf, ready to go, and keeps the guys happy knowing we're doing everything we can to keep the floor safe from accidents.

What's great are the unbelievably simple to use Maintenance softwares out there that lets you program out your maintenance and/or cataloguing and testing using your phones. Spent the last three years slowly cataloguing every component in our shop, when it needs to be cleaned/tested/maintained/replaced. Pictures are included, as well as three separate sources and current pricing for when they need to be replaced. We update these sources and pricing every other year.

It's IMMENSELY helpful to have daily/monthly/yearly software reminders of all these tasks, so we can easily and quickly distribute the work throughout the year. Sure wasn't like this when I started!

Last year I was replacing the gas valves in my fireplace inserts (sealed units, so no heat loss up the chimney), and was fascinated to discover the "shelf life" of gas valves (well, the ones I needed). Not surprisingly, a lot of "expired" items available at lower prices... Interesting that those can even be sold. It's all fun and cheap goods until someone's house explodes, I guess...

Caveat emptor? Oh, and I guess there is no role for government regulation, eh?

Using any BOM systems? How is the cyber-hygiene of your facilities? Know where your COTS vendors get their components? Remember the log4j fiasco? And that was relatively benign.

[PizzaSnake]

Dating back to 2014, I've stated numerous times that I support defensive US-made military aid. You just don't get the distinction. The rest is your gaslighting.

Oh, yes I do. For one, they give us money. For the other, we give it out for free. That's it. That's the distinction.

You want the distinction to be larger than that. It's not. Sorry.

Re Taiwan & strategic ambiguity, you clearly don't understand the concept of deterrence & how it has worked in the past.
It's how we won the Cold War.

Right. If the Soviets invaded NATO, what would have happened? THAT is deterrence.

In order for strategic ambiguity to work, there has to be---at a minimum--- a decent chance that we will respond militarily Please, try and tell me otherwise. This ain't complicated math, Old Salt: if there is ZERO chance will will respond to a Chinese invasion, where the firetruck do you think the "ambiguity" lies?

Go ahead and school me. I'll wait.

The last time we fully mobilized for war was Vietnam. We needed & had a draft then.

No. The last time the US FULLY mobilized was WWII. Vietnam? We went about our daily lives at home.

My limits on military aid to Ukraine are to prevent mission creep & to end the slaughter before we are drawn in.

Oh, I know. That's what you military wonks ALWAYS say. BEFORE the mission creep shows up. It's how we got to the total logic fail where you told me that we could never leave Afghanistan.

And you military wonks also conveniently forget that these involvement last through MULTIPLE Presidents. You know: the guy who's in charge of deciding how to handle "mission creep". Changes in Admin. is one of the biggest reasons we get the mission creep. See: Nixon and Vietnam.

You'll never learn this lesson, and neither will American military wonks who think in weeks and months, not decades and centuries.

You may recall, I objected to our involvement in Ukraine as far back as 2004 in my posts about the Finlandization of Ukraine.

Oh, I do. But you're leaving out that you changed your mind when Trump sent arms and training to them. You supported the move. And bragged about it later as saving Ukraine's bacon. That is "involvement", my man. More specifically "military involvement".

You changed your mind, which you are allowed to do, of course.

"La donna è mobile"

[a fan]

Last year I was replacing the gas valves in my fireplace inserts (sealed units, so no heat loss up the chimney), and was fascinated to discover the "shelf life" of gas valves (well, the ones I needed). Not surprisingly, a lot of "expired" items available at lower prices... Interesting that those can even be sold. It's all fun and cheap goods until someone's house explodes, I guess...

Solenoids shouldn't be used as direct valves.....yet that's what they use in the States for gas valves.

Using any BOM systems? How is the cyber-hygiene of your facilities?

Stellar. They're offline and don't connect to the internet. Never have. Pretty simple way to keep them away from hackers.

Know where your COTS vendors get their components? Remember the log4j fiasco? And that was relatively benign.

Nephew has a Computer Engineering degree, and took care of system security during Covid, when he couldn't go out and interview for his 1st job out of college. We're in good shape, thanks!

[PizzaSnake]

Last year I was replacing the gas valves in my fireplace inserts (sealed units, so no heat loss up the chimney), and was fascinated to discover the "shelf life" of gas valves (well, the ones I needed). Not surprisingly, a lot of "expired" items available at lower prices... Interesting that those can even be sold. It's all fun and cheap goods until someone's house explodes, I guess...

Solenoids shouldn't be used as direct valves.....yet that's what they use in the States for gas valves.

Using any BOM systems? How is the cyber-hygiene of your facilities?

Stellar. They're offline and don't connect to the internet. Never have. Pretty simple way to keep them away from hackers.

Know where your COTS vendors get their components? Remember the log4j fiasco? And that was relatively benign.

Nephew has a Computer Engineering degree, and took care of system security during Covid, when he couldn't go out and interview for his 1st job out of college. We're in good shape, thanks!

Ask him about Stuxnet. Systems don't have to be connected to the Internet to be vulnerable. Just takes a little sloppy hygiene (use of USB or other media to update the sequestered systems and there is a problem). Now, I'm not saying you have a fleet of gas centrifuges, but, things are not as straightforward as one might believe (or wish). Or that you are as sloppy as the Colonial Pipeline clowns.

"Stuxnet attacked Windows systems using an unprecedented four zero-day attacks (plus the CPLINK vulnerability and a vulnerability used by the Conficker worm[63]). It is initially spread using infected removable drives such as USB flash drives,[21][45] which contain Windows shortcut files to initiate executable code.[64] The worm then uses other exploits and techniques such as peer-to-peer remote procedure call (RPC) to infect and update other computers inside private networks that are not directly connected to the Internet."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet#C ... m_security

If someone or some entity wants in, you aren't going to stop them. Ever.

Question is, does anyone want into your systems? Probably not, but you never know.

[a fan]

Last year I was replacing the gas valves in my fireplace inserts (sealed units, so no heat loss up the chimney), and was fascinated to discover the "shelf life" of gas valves (well, the ones I needed). Not surprisingly, a lot of "expired" items available at lower prices... Interesting that those can even be sold. It's all fun and cheap goods until someone's house explodes, I guess...

Solenoids shouldn't be used as direct valves.....yet that's what they use in the States for gas valves.

Using any BOM systems? How is the cyber-hygiene of your facilities?

Stellar. They're offline and don't connect to the internet. Never have. Pretty simple way to keep them away from hackers.

Know where your COTS vendors get their components? Remember the log4j fiasco? And that was relatively benign.

Nephew has a Computer Engineering degree, and took care of system security during Covid, when he couldn't go out and interview for his 1st job out of college. We're in good shape, thanks!

Ask him about Stuxnet. Systems don't have to be connected to the Internet to be vulnerable. Just takes a little sloppy hygiene (use of USB or other media to update the sequestered systems and there is a problem). Now, I'm not saying you have a fleet of gas centrifuges, but, things are not as straightforward as one might believe (or wish). Or that you are as sloppy as the Colonial Pipeline clowns.

"Stuxnet attacked Windows systems using an unprecedented four zero-day attacks (plus the CPLINK vulnerability and a vulnerability used by the Conficker worm[63]). It is initially spread using infected removable drives such as USB flash drives,[21][45] which contain Windows shortcut files to initiate executable code.[64] The worm then uses other exploits and techniques such as peer-to-peer remote procedure call (RPC) to infect and update other computers inside private networks that are not directly connected to the Internet."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet#C ... m_security

If someone or some entity wants in, you aren't going to stop them. Ever.

Question is, does anyone want into your systems? Probably not, but you never know.

Really appreciate the warning, but I think you're having delusions of grandeur on my behalf. We're a tiny family company with just 6 FTE's. No one cares about us enough to hack via thumbdrives.

To top it off, my 70+ yo Mom and Brother handle the books. She was an office manager when we were kids...and now that she's retired, she loves coming in a couple days a week to help clean up the accounting. She says it makes her feel young, and the crew loves having her around.

We're not worth anyone's time, in short. If you're gonna break laws, you want to go a LOT bigger than our little company. We're tiny fish in an ocean of potential hacking targets.

[old salt]

Dating back to 2014, I've stated numerous times that I support defensive US-made military aid. You just don't get the distinction. The rest is your gaslighting.

Oh, yes I do. For one, they give us money. For the other, we give it out for free. That's it. That's the distinction.
You want the distinction to be larger than that. It's not. Sorry.
Given your simplistic perspective, you refuse to see a distinction.
Another distinction re. Ukraine -- I'm ok with defensive weapons vs offensive.
Another distinction is that the weapons be US made (economic impact) & the bonus of fresher/modernized inventory when we donate from our stock of weapons & munitions & replenish our inventory in the process. I don't approve of aid soley for those reasons.
You've cited our obligation under the Budapest Memorandum. Had we not fomented revolution & regime change in Ukraine in 2004 & 2014, & invited them into the EU & NATO, I'd tell Ukraine they're on their own. We lead them down the primrose path, we can't abandon them now, as much as I'd otherwise like to. Our meddling in their internal affairs got them to this point. It would be wrong to abandon them now. We need to help them assure their survival as a nation, not to recover their lost territory which they failed to defend. How many times do I need to explain my position before you stop misrepresenting it ?

Re Taiwan & strategic ambiguity, you clearly don't understand the concept of deterrence & how it has worked in the past.
It's how we won the Cold War.

Right. If the Soviets invaded NATO, what would have happened? THAT is deterrence.
The presence of >340,000 our forces, stationed in Europe & deployed to defend NATO's E flank was deterrence, just as our forces in S Korea are. We've discussed the tripwire effect before. That's why we again have US tanks back in Europe, deployed along NATO's E flank.
In order for strategic ambiguity to work, there has to be---at a minimum--- a decent chance that we will respond militarily Please, try and tell me otherwise. This ain't complicated math, Old Salt: if there is ZERO chance will will respond to a Chinese invasion, where the firetruck do you think the "ambiguity" lies?
Go ahead and school me. I'll wait.
Our potential response in WPac does not necessarily need to be all out war. It could be actions limited to break a naval blockade. The threat posed by our attack subs alone may be enough.

The last time we fully mobilized for war was Vietnam. We needed & had a draft then.

No. The last time the US FULLY mobilized was WWII. Vietnam? We went about our daily lives at home.
No -- it's the last time we needed conscription to meet our manpower needs. We could not have fielded the force levels we mobilized & deployed, soley with volunteers. If you were serving or sweating out the draft, it was not your daily life at home.

My limits on military aid to Ukraine are to prevent mission creep & to end the slaughter before we are drawn in.

Oh, I know. That's what you military wonks ALWAYS say. BEFORE the mission creep shows up. It's how we got to the total logic fail where you told me that we could never leave Afghanistan.
And you military wonks also conveniently forget that these involvement last through MULTIPLE Presidents. You know: the guy who's in charge of deciding how to handle "mission creep". Changes in Admin. is one of the biggest reasons we get the mission creep. See: Nixon and Vietnam.
You'll never learn this lesson, and neither will American military wonks who think in weeks and months, not decades and centuries.
...& you're too stubborn to acknowledge the cost v benefit of the small residual forces we deployed to maintain stability our final year in Afghanistan & still have in Iraq/Syria vs the cost & risk of conducting large scale combat ops.

You may recall, I objected to our involvement in Ukraine as far back as 2004 in my posts about the Finlandization of Ukraine.

Oh, I do. But you're leaving out that you changed your mind when Trump sent arms and training to them. You supported the move. And bragged about it later as saving Ukraine's bacon. That is "involvement", my man. More specifically "military involvement".
No, another lie about my position. I was for sending limited defensive aid after the seizure of Crimea & the Donbas enclaves in 2014. (recall our discussions about the 2016 RNC vs DNC platdoems). I jeered Obama for just sending blankets & MRE's. The Javelins, NVG's, sniper rifles, radios & trainers provided under Trump enabled the Ukrainians to repel the 2022 invasion, save Kyiv & clawback much of the territory initially lost.
You changed your mind, which you are allowed to do, of course.
No. I've responded to dynamic events as they transpired from 2014 - 2024. You should try it.
That's why I'm pissed that we've blundered back into another Cold War by trying to extend NATO & the EU into the heartland of historic Mother Russia.