JUST the NY "Hush Money"/Election Interference Trial

[dislaxxic]

I suspect we'll be coming back to this thread a lot in 2021 as the worm turns and we (hopefully) begin to put this entire sorry episode behind us.

But accountability IS important, more than anything perhaps, so that the public has the information needed to make informed choices at the ballot box.

Iran-Contra should have been investigated more. The way we got to the 2008 financial meltdown was very murky and essentially NO ONE was ever held accountable. Who feels like THAT one won't happen again? Remember "too big to fail"? What's been "fixed" in that regard since?

The way president Cheney and his vassal Shrub got us into an illegal, immoral war in Iraq...along with the torture regime run by the neocons and conservative warmongers was a big one. In some ways, Obama wishing to "turn the page" on that one without investigation has led us to where we are today.

And BOY..."where we are today"! Absolutely unprecedented. Can we agree that no one wants abuse of power like this to continue after Trump is sent home to Florida?

I would like to have Josh Marshall at Talking Points memo get this thread started with the following post:

Biden Should Commit to it And Trump Should Be Warned: The Cover Ups End in January

The truth is that in the most important respects it doesn’t matter that much whether Roger Stone or Paul Manafort or even Donald Trump spend time in prison. But for public accountability it matters a great deal that we the people know what they did. Seeing public bad actors do time is at best a sugar high of public accountability. It metes out, often against a random array of individuals, what it properly addressed at large by exposure and elections. Exposure lights the road to a better future and gives voters the information they need to ensure accountability at the ballot box.

President Trump has not only consistently abused his powers and conflated his personal interest with the national interest. He has used his vast powers of secrecy to conceal his crimes and betrayals. That should stop the day he leaves office and it can be easily done. It doesn’t rely on the courts or the Congress. The new President will inherit all those powers for his own tenure and all past Presidents. As Trump himself has so failed to understand none of these are his powers. They are the powers of the sitting President.

..

[6ftstick]

I suspect we'll be coming back to this thread a lot in 2021 as the worm turns and we (hopefully) begin to put this entire sorry episode behind us.

But accountability IS important, more than anything perhaps, so that the public has the information needed to make informed choices at the ballot box.

Iran-Contra should have been investigated more. The way we got to the 2008 financial meltdown was very murky and essentially NO ONE was ever held accountable. Who feels like THAT one won't happen again? Remember "too big to fail"? What's been "fixed" in that regard since?

The way president Cheney and his vassal Shrub got us into an illegal, immoral war in Iraq...along with the torture regime run by the neocons and conservative warmongers was a big one. In some ways, Obama wishing to "turn the page" on that one without investigation has led us to where we are today.

And BOY..."where we are today"! Absolutely unprecedented. Can we agree that no one wants abuse of power like this to continue after Trump is sent home to Florida?

I would like to have Josh Marshall at Talking Points memo get this thread started with the following post:

Biden Should Commit to it And Trump Should Be Warned: The Cover Ups End in January

The truth is that in the most important respects it doesn’t matter that much whether Roger Stone or Paul Manafort or even Donald Trump spend time in prison. But for public accountability it matters a great deal that we the people know what they did. Seeing public bad actors do time is at best a sugar high of public accountability. It metes out, often against a random array of individuals, what it properly addressed at large by exposure and elections. Exposure lights the road to a better future and gives voters the information they need to ensure accountability at the ballot box.

President Trump has not only consistently abused his powers and conflated his personal interest with the national interest. He has used his vast powers of secrecy to conceal his crimes and betrayals. That should stop the day he leaves office and it can be easily done. It doesn’t rely on the courts or the Congress. The new President will inherit all those powers for his own tenure and all past Presidents. As Trump himself has so failed to understand none of these are his powers. They are the powers of the sitting President.

..

Jeez just what we need another anti Trump republicans are AzzHolez thread. Not enough places on the forum for that cesentiment.

Take this down. Please!

[MDlaxfan76]

You just promoted it...don't participate in it if you want it to not gain legs.

I don't see any particular need for another thread at this point either, but I see dis' point that there will be a post-election discussion about accountability and he's setting a marker to come back to.

Dis, I'm not sure that Biden wouldn't dilute his heal the country message (which is a winning message) at this point by such a commitment, but I do agree that sunlight is critical to disinfect this stain on America. Maybe there's a way for Biden to do so without it coming across as divisive, however I'd need to think hard about it if I was his campaign strategy advisor.

[dislaxxic]

Marshall makes a cogent point...

My point here is not to rule out prosecutions. That is simply a more complex question with more complicated equities. The winners prosecuting the losers is a dangerous if sometimes necessary tool. We also don’t know what we will find. But review and exposure is something we can and must insist on now. There is no tyranny or injustice in simply having your bad acts revealed. If Trump is driven from office, Trumpism won’t end in January 2021. We’ll still have a whole political party devoted to him and his politics. We will still have the machinery of government which it uses to govern through minority rule. But none of these obstacles to and targets of reform will be surmountable without accountability and exposure for the public catastrophe of the last four years. No standards of public service or resistance to public corruption and abuse can be restored without it.

Tangential question: it is being reported that Dems are now starting to line up behind the elimination of the filibuster. Agree? Disagree?

I honestly believe that this sort of thing (sunlight and potentially, prosecutions) help create a more informed electorate, unlike that which elected Donald Trump. OF COURSE you'll have partisans like 6ft attempting to turn legitimate accountability into a "witch hunt" pursuing a hoax. Enough of that foolishness...

..

[ABV 8.3%]

I suspect we'll be coming back to this thread a lot in 2021 as the worm turns and we (hopefully) begin to put this entire sorry episode behind us.

But accountability IS important, more than anything perhaps, so that the public has the information needed to make informed choices at the ballot box.

Iran-Contra should have been investigated more. The way we got to the 2008 financial meltdown was very murky and essentially NO ONE was ever held accountable. Who feels like THAT one won't happen again? Remember "too big to fail"? What's been "fixed" in that regard since?

The way president Cheney and his vassal Shrub got us into an illegal, immoral war in Iraq...along with the torture regime run by the neocons and conservative warmongers was a big one. In some ways, Obama wishing to "turn the page" on that one without investigation has led us to where we are today.

And BOY..."where we are today"! Absolutely unprecedented. Can we agree that no one wants abuse of power like this to continue after Trump is sent home to Florida?

I would like to have Josh Marshall at Talking Points memo get this thread started with the following post:

Biden Should Commit to it And Trump Should Be Warned: The Cover Ups End in January

The truth is that in the most important respects it doesn’t matter that much whether Roger Stone or Paul Manafort or even Donald Trump spend time in prison. But for public accountability it matters a great deal that we the people know what they did. Seeing public bad actors do time is at best a sugar high of public accountability. It metes out, often against a random array of individuals, what it properly addressed at large by exposure and elections. Exposure lights the road to a better future and gives voters the information they need to ensure accountability at the ballot box.

President Trump has not only consistently abused his powers and conflated his personal interest with the national interest. He has used his vast powers of secrecy to conceal his crimes and betrayals. That should stop the day he leaves office and it can be easily done. It doesn’t rely on the courts or the Congress. The new President will inherit all those powers for his own tenure and all past Presidents. As Trump himself has so failed to understand none of these are his powers. They are the powers of the sitting President.

..

This is a good sign.......you are getting it now. Blaming him for EVERYTHING, pointing out his endless warts.......is crying wolf. Many stopped listening years ago.

Again, this is a good sign. Even the slighest bit of questioning of Obama kicking the can down the road. For pointing out that POTUSA Obama sided with wall street.....and similar reasons, why he should be blamed. (war on drugs, good band, bad policy )

[Brooklyn]

Accountability for Iran-Contra, the myth of WMD, thousands of Americans killed in the ME, Bush killing Americans thru Katrina, tRUMP killing Americans in Puerto Rico and through the import of infected people who spread deadly diseases? Always remember that being Republican is never having to say you're sorry.

[holmes435]

Trump investigated Hillary long after she lost...

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

the title and first sentence of the article assume that JB has already won.

so i stopped reading at that point

[dislaxxic]

Good catch, sir.

Second and third sentences of first paragraph (since you didn't make it that far...)

"But even if this doesn’t happen in November it will happen one day. Now is the time to plan for accountability for and recovery from the catastrophe of Trumpism."

I wouldn't start banking on a Dem win just yet (not til about midnight on November 3rd, actually)...but it sure looks bad for the ol' Con Dog at this moment, does it?

..

[kramerica.inc]

Speaking of accountability after the fact:

Oklahoma man shoots woman for stealing his Nazi Flag.

How dare he?

How dare she?

Discuss.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/oklahoma-man ... -nazi-flag

[MDlaxfan76]

Speaking of accountability after the fact:

Oklahoma man shoots woman for stealing his Nazi Flag.

How dare he?

How dare she?

Discuss.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/oklahoma-man ... -nazi-flag

shot her running away...20 years.
He'll have plenty of company with the Aryan Brotherhood.

[kramerica.inc]

Speaking of accountability after the fact:

Oklahoma man shoots woman for stealing his Nazi Flag.

How dare he?

How dare she?

Discuss.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/oklahoma-man ... -nazi-flag

shot her running away...20 years.
He'll have plenty of company with the Aryan Brotherhood.

Perhaps. and Most likely.
But after the fact, will she be charged with destruction of, or stealing his property?

[MDlaxfan76]

Speaking of accountability after the fact:

Oklahoma man shoots woman for stealing his Nazi Flag.

How dare he?

How dare she?

Discuss.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/oklahoma-man ... -nazi-flag

shot her running away...20 years.
He'll have plenty of company with the Aryan Brotherhood.

Perhaps. and Most likely.
But after the fact, will she be charged with destruction of, or stealing his property?

At worst a slap on the wrist, community service, but probably will just need to give the flag back or compensate for any damage to it.

Prank.
Which of us wouldn't have been up for such a prank, given some cold ones in our gullet?
Sounds like it was an ongoing prank.

[kramerica.inc]

Agree. But it's hard to laugh away drunken actions as much these days, when people are held accountable for drunken disorderlies and DUIs on a regular basis.
Probably a life-lesson for her too.

[seacoaster]

Speaking of accountability after the fact:

Oklahoma man shoots woman for stealing his Nazi Flag.

How dare he?

How dare she?

Discuss.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/oklahoma-man ... -nazi-flag

shot her running away...20 years.
He'll have plenty of company with the Aryan Brotherhood.

Perhaps. and Most likely.
But after the fact, will she be charged with destruction of, or stealing his property?

Not much to talk about, right? Isn't this exactly the sort of thing that the world of law enforcement is supposed to help us manage. "A lady just stole my flag. Her name is Mrs. McGillicuddy, and I would like to shoot her, but that's completely disproportionate to the offense, maybe especially because my flag is the banner of the worst sort of evil the world has ever seen. So, please help me out."

She sure did get a lesson in private property values, though. Sad story all the way around.

[seacoaster]

Good catch, sir.

Second and third sentences of first paragraph (since you didn't make it that far...)

"But even if this doesn’t happen in November it will happen one day. Now is the time to plan for accountability for and recovery from the catastrophe of Trumpism."

I wouldn't start banking on a Dem win just yet (not til about midnight on November 3rd, actually)...but it sure looks bad for the ol' Con Dog at this moment, does it?

..

The plan for accountability for and recovery from the Trump years is in the ballot box: remove those complicit in the weakening of the rule of law, valued institutions, etc. I am really reluctant to get behind, or urge Biden to act on, an initiative to use the Courts to bring these people to account, even that f*ck Jared.

[kramerica.inc]

Good catch, sir.

Second and third sentences of first paragraph (since you didn't make it that far...)

"But even if this doesn’t happen in November it will happen one day. Now is the time to plan for accountability for and recovery from the catastrophe of Trumpism."

I wouldn't start banking on a Dem win just yet (not til about midnight on November 3rd, actually)...but it sure looks bad for the ol' Con Dog at this moment, does it?

..

The plan for accountability for and recovery from the Trump years is in the ballot box: remove those complicit in the weakening of the rule of law, valued institutions, etc. I am really reluctant to get behind, or urge Biden to act on, an initiative to use the Courts to bring these people to account, even that f*ck Jared.

Good luck getting many of these judges to indict the people who gave them their jobs.

But on the other hand, dragging people through a worthless political trial that yields no results is what the democrats do best these days.

[seacoaster]

Good catch, sir.

Second and third sentences of first paragraph (since you didn't make it that far...)

"But even if this doesn’t happen in November it will happen one day. Now is the time to plan for accountability for and recovery from the catastrophe of Trumpism."

I wouldn't start banking on a Dem win just yet (not til about midnight on November 3rd, actually)...but it sure looks bad for the ol' Con Dog at this moment, does it?

..

The plan for accountability for and recovery from the Trump years is in the ballot box: remove those complicit in the weakening of the rule of law, valued institutions, etc. I am really reluctant to get behind, or urge Biden to act on, an initiative to use the Courts to bring these people to account, even that f*ck Jared.

Good luck getting many of these judges to indict the people who gave them their jobs.

But on the other hand, dragging people through a worthless political trial that yields no results is what the democrats do best these days.

Well, couple things Cosmo. First, I am actually saying I really hope nothing like a trial of one’s political foes happens. It is the hallmark of a completed, mature banana republic.

And second, judges don’t indict. Prosecutors and grand juries do that. We can agree to disagree on the Democrats supposed proclivity to do it.

[jhu72]

The most important thing is to see that no president ever again is allowed to accumulate to himself the power Trump has while flaunting the laws and conventions of the US. The best way to do that is vote every mother f*ing Trumpnista republican out of federal office as a start. They have stood for nothing other than allowing Trump to flaunt the laws and conventions of the US government. They have done nothing but support his corruption. It's time congress started to do their job, and you clearly can't do that with f*ing Trumpnista republicans in the way. Then put in place actual federal laws with serious penalties for the behaviors of the executive that Trump has exhibited and flaunted. If SCOTUS won't act, its time to make it impossible for them not to act.

The AG has to be 100% independent of scum bag politicians regardless of party in power. We need no more scum bags like Barr in that office, ever.

While this is going on, real, respectable republicans, real conservatives, the few that are left, need to get their party under control. Send the sh!thouse rats back to where they came from. The Trumpnista bags of sh!t can form their own party of racists, xenophobes, misogynists and knuckle draggers.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

Good catch, sir.

Second and third sentences of first paragraph (since you didn't make it that far...)

"But even if this doesn’t happen in November it will happen one day. Now is the time to plan for accountability for and recovery from the catastrophe of Trumpism."

I wouldn't start banking on a Dem win just yet (not til about midnight on November 3rd, actually)...but it sure looks bad for the ol' Con Dog at this moment, does it?

..

of course- im on record on that topic. he'd have to win every swing state and maybe still not enough.

i meant more that if we assume the polls have JB that far ahead, we have short memories!