influence of Men's game good for Women’s Lacrosse?

[LaxGuy17]

This is a subject I think whose time has come to discuss. Rule changes, improved athleticism and training, increased physicality, influence of men’s coaches (good or bad) all are factors in the changing the way women’s lacrosse is played at the highest level. I think women’s lacrosse has reached a level in the past 6-8 years that has permanently changed the game. The past 2-3 years though, I believe have quietly seen not just change but fundamental shifts in the way the women’s game is now played. The game is faster, more athletic, more physically demanding than ever. But the biggest changes I see now among the top teams is in the way the game is played. The influence of men’s offensive concepts, box lacrosse techniques and changes in shooting have slowly crept into the game. Watch the pick and rolls run by NU, the offball work by Md and UNC and how they dodge to create doubles and pass to open cutters, and how SU runs their weave and players shoot off and around defenders and you will see what I mean. My question to this Forum is...are these changes good or bad for the women’s game? Thoughts?

[LaxDad23]

Okay, I’ll bite. In my opinion, they make the games more interesting to watch, as teams evolve from purely dodging or feeding type offenses. There is as much coming from basketball as from the men’s game – IMHO. Even with good defensive position, I think it is getting harder on defenses as shots now come from all angles – ¾’s, side armed, golfed. All possible through more athleticism, stick skills, etc.
As a fan and a parent of a D1 player, I like -- and appreciate -- the strategy and athleticism together makes for a more enjoyable than watching a ‘dodge-fest’.

[LaxGuy17]

Okay, I’ll bite. In my opinion, they make the games more interesting to watch, as teams evolve from purely dodging or feeding type offenses. There is as much coming from basketball as from the men’s game – IMHO. Even with good defensive position, I think it is getting harder on defenses as shots now come from all angles – ¾’s, side armed, golfed. All possible through more athleticism, stick skills, etc.
As a fan and a parent of a D1 player, I like -- and appreciate -- the strategy and athleticism together makes for a more enjoyable than watching a ‘dodge-fest’.

Agree with your thoughts, especially the basketball influence. The game is becoming much more fan and TV friendly and will help expand the game. The only part I think needs to be dealt with is the shooting off the defenders. As a parent of a D1 defender and a middie, I can tell you they get clipped on the follow through more than it looks and I worry about concussions.

[LaxDad23]

Agreed. I saw many shots that were literally over the head of the defender which were not called.

[DMac]

One could argue that the possession clock is the single biggest factor that has brought wlax closer to mlax (Ironic that the mlaxers took their cue from the wlaxers on that), it's no longer a game of leisure, there's a little different sense of urgency in the game, it has to be played at a faster pace with a much more of a get the ball to the cage mentality. The possession clock has not only made the girls play a different game, I'd argue it has let them. Lot of factors involved for sure. As for the hoops comparison, I've always seen mlax and hoops as the same game, just a little more roughness allowed in one of them than the other (Naismith was a lax boy, hoops is a soft cousin).

[spartanslynx]

I like that players not only score by driving to the rim.
Outside shots is rearly what gets defenders hurt but rather when get followthrough-slap in tight.

The arc and the 3-second rule is still what make wlax different. Slides are tough for the D and when cutter gets a break into the arc, it's hard to pick her up.
The middle being unclogged makes for some great passing plays.

One thing from mlax is a rise in alley dodges with jump shots to the far pipe.

Different offenses and plays with athleticism and game IQ are great for wlax, no matter where the ifnluence is from.

[LaxGuy17]

Well said. Honestly it will be hard to compete in the Top.5 the next few years if you aren’t able to pick and roll, pass to beat a zone, etc. The one area of women’s lacrosse I think is completely neglected is the fast break. The extra defender makes it harder than men’s but somebody tell me which team has schemed a women’s fast break well.

[wlaxnut]

Fast break?

https://youtu.be/YUjWN7xYukE

[spartanslynx]

Fast break?

https://youtu.be/YUjWN7xYukE

That is a riding fast break and fun to see.

But if the D causes a turnover it will be a 5v4 break. Those are not converted so often. And teams are often taught to foul the fast break.
I think transition fouls should result in a yellow cards every time it is a numbers advantage.

[8meterPA]

Fast break?

https://youtu.be/YUjWN7xYukE

That is a riding fast break and fun to see.

But if the D causes a turnover it will be a 5v4 break. Those are not converted so often. And teams are often taught to foul the fast break.
I think transition fouls should result in a yellow cards every time it is a numbers advantage.

Or give them a free position shot, sort of like intentional foul in basketball on fast break results in 2 free throws. The ability of a defender to have unlimited fouls does bug me.

[spartanslynx]

Going back to if the topic of if the influence of mlax is good.

The games are similar at it's core

Wlax is a more pure version. When you get bet in wlax it is harder to use "cheap trick" like pushing to get back a step or throw a desperation check.

It only is natrual that wlax takes parts from mlax now that stick tech has made ball control easier.

[LaxGuy17]

I like the concept but hard to officiate. Would have to be releasable.

[Delco Transplant]

I didn't want to start a new thread and this seemed the best thread to raise this question. My apologies if this has been previously addressed/discussed. In men's lacrosse there are 10 players on the field (9 field and 1 goalie). In women's lacrosse there are 12 players on the field (11 field and 1 goalie). Why do fully funded Division I men's programs have 12.6 scholarship and women's programs only have 12 scholarships?

[seacoaster]

Influence of the men's game is, in my view, basically a bad thing for women's lacrosse. And women's lacrosse can start working against the deep crosse pockets now, instead of lamenting it in ten years.

[wlaxnut]

Influence of the men's game is, in my view, basically a bad thing for women's lacrosse. And women's lacrosse can start working against the deep crosse pockets now, instead of lamenting it in ten years.

Hear, hear!

[LaxDad23]

1a and 1b for me are the shot clock and free movement. Free movement has made the game much more enjoyable to watch and according to DD more fun to play.

I thought free movement would lead to more use of middie lines and more substitution like the men's game. Neither of those seem to have happened. Not sure if coaching strategy hasn't evolved or the depth just isn't there. Unless it is a blow out most teams only use 15-17 players per game.

[Dr. Tact]

1a and 1b for me are the shot clock and free movement. Free movement has made the game much more enjoyable to watch and according to DD more fun to play.

I thought free movement would lead to more use of middie lines and more substitution like the men's game. Neither of those seem to have happened. Not sure if coaching strategy hasn't evolved or the depth just isn't there. Unless it is a blow out most teams only use 15-17 players per game.

Free movement!!!! Shot clock

There are a few teams that fly the box with D/O middies, but the full hockey line change just isn't happening in the games I've seen.

[wlaxnut]

This isn't precisely the correct place to put this but it's the closest I could come up with without scrolling back too far.

Due in part to my anticipation for the beginning of the women's lacrosse season opener this coming Friday, I looked at the 4th quarter of the Air Force/Duke game yesterday. I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. Then I was peeking over into the men's div 1 boards here and WOW! What an avalanche of participation there!

Lacrosse is growing all over this great land. I'm glad. It's a uniquely exciting sport, regardless of who's playing it. (Just keep those abominable "Olympic rules" away from the sport!)

[LaxGuy17]

This isn't precisely the correct place to put this but it's the closest I could come up with without scrolling back too far.

Due in part to my anticipation for the beginning of the women's lacrosse season opener this coming Friday, I looked at the 4th quarter of the Air Force/Duke game yesterday. I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would. Then I was peeking over into the men's div 1 boards here and WOW! What an avalanche of participation there!

Lacrosse is growing all over this great land. I'm glad. It's a uniquely exciting sport, regardless of who's playing it. (Just keep those abominable "Olympic rules" away from the sport!)

Heard this a few times. What is it about the Olympic rules everybody seems to hate? Haven’t really looked them over yet.

[DMac]

Everything.