Shot Clock Success

[Gorilla Fan]

Think it has been an universal agreement that the institution of the shot clock had a profound affect on the quality of this past year.

Originally, the coaches against it were worried that a shot clock would just force every defense to just pack it into a zone, and force outside shots, in reality that play never took hold.

While proponents of the shot clock might argue that it hasn't sped the game fast enough. Regardless, it is good to be rid of the days when players, fans, and coaches are screaming to the refs to declare "timer" after every pass through X to control tempo.

Even more positive feedback has had how it affected the clearing and riding games.

It of course wasn't without kinks... Most games, especially early season, there were huddles amongst the refs to reset, or not reset the clock. A lot of that revolved around inexperienced operators manning the clock in a fast paced game. Yet, it seemed to get better as the season went along.

From my understanding the main topic to improve the current situation is on the restart when the offensive team regains possession. If a team gets an offensive rebound, or somehow regains possession in the offensive end, is it a fresh 80? The common argument is that it should be at a reduced rate. Reset to 60 or 45

That could lead to more complications with the operator (especially in a D2 or D3 game), where they might have change to a "fresh 60", but I think they have current mechanisms for basketball operators on how to deal with that.

Thoughts?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Think it has been an universal agreement that the institution of the shot clock had a profound affect on the quality of this past year.

Originally, the coaches against it were worried that a shot clock would just force every defense to just pack it into a zone, and force outside shots, in reality that play never took hold.

While proponents of the shot clock might argue that it hasn't sped the game fast enough. Regardless, it is good to be rid of the days when players, fans, and coaches are screaming to the refs to declare "timer" after every pass through X to control tempo.

Even more positive feedback has had how it affected the clearing and riding games.

It of course wasn't without kinks... Most games, especially early season, there were huddles amongst the refs to reset, or not reset the clock. A lot of that revolved around inexperienced operators manning the clock in a fast paced game. Yet, it seemed to get better as the season went along.

From my understanding the main topic to improve the current situation is on the restart when the offensive team regains possession. If a team gets an offensive rebound, or somehow regains possession in the offensive end, is it a fresh 80? The common argument is that it should be at a reduced rate. Reset to 60 or 45

That could lead to more complications with the operator (especially in a D2 or D3 game), where they might have change to a "fresh 60", but I think they have current mechanisms for basketball operators on how to deal with that.

Thoughts?

Leave it alone. The game was fine last year. Just enough time for most college teams.

[Wheels]

I think a lot of coaches are on board for a 30 or 45 second reset off of a save or pipe. Probably see that happen in another year.

[DMac]

The shot clock has been a huge success and I think the vast majority of people would agree with that. I think they got it right with the eighty seconds, the pace of the game is pretty darn good the way I see it. If it were to go to a sixty second clock on the reset, I'd be alright with that (as long as it's easily managable by the refs and clock operators...really don't see how that's difficult or asking too much), inasmuch as twenty of the eighty seconds is to allow time to clear the ball, it makes sense that a reset would go sixty (includes regaining possession on an attempted clear). Funny thing about the shot clock is that it's actually made it easier to stall/manage the clock as the game is winding down than it was before the clock...the way I see it anyway.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The shot clock has been a huge success and I think the vast majority of people would agree with that. I think they got it right with the eighty seconds, the pace of the game is pretty darn good the way I see it. If it were to go to a sixty second clock on the reset, I'd be alright with that (as long as it's easily managable by the refs and clock operators...really don't see how that's difficult or asking too much), inasmuch as twenty of the eighty seconds is to allow time to clear the ball, it makes sense that a reset would go sixty (includes regaining possession on an attempted clear). Funny thing about the shot clock is that it's actually made it easier to stall/manage the clock as the game is winding down than it was before the clock...the way I see it anyway.

I agree with the stalling observation. It’s actually easier to close out a game by sitting on the ball.

[FannOLax]

The shot clock has been a huge success and I think the vast majority of people would agree with that. I think they got it right with the eighty seconds, the pace of the game is pretty darn good the way I see it. ... Funny thing about the shot clock is that it's actually made it easier to stall/manage the clock as the game is winding down than it was before the clock...the way I see it anyway.

I agree, it was a success. As for late-game "stall/manage" situations, I go back to one of the stated reasons for a permanent shot clock: to take away the subjectivity; some refs were very quick to put on the 30-second shot clock (in which case I agree with DMac and TLD), but it definitely differed from ref to ref, game to game. The pace of the game, the urgency offenses have to get it going, yes, it improved the game.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The shot clock has been a huge success and I think the vast majority of people would agree with that. I think they got it right with the eighty seconds, the pace of the game is pretty darn good the way I see it. ... Funny thing about the shot clock is that it's actually made it easier to stall/manage the clock as the game is winding down than it was before the clock...the way I see it anyway.

I agree, it was a success. As for late-game "stall/manage" situations, I go back to one of the stated reasons for a permanent shot clock: to take away the subjectivity; some refs were very quick to put on the 30-second shot clock (in which case I agree with DMac and TLD), but it definitely differed from ref to ref, game to game. The pace of the game, the urgency offenses have to get it going, yes, it improved the game.

80 seconds is fine and resetting the clock at 60 isn’t the end of the world but I like the extra time to process offense. I would leave the clock just as it is. The game was fine last year.

[FannOLax]

I agree, TLD. They got it right; it isn't broken so no need to fix it.

[ABV 8.3%]

Anyone have access to overall shot clock violation statistics. You would figure a "governing" body would want to track the success, or lack of, for the shot clock. n$aa lacrosse stats has no such cat. for shot clock violations. Liet's put a new rule in place and NOT track it. This is the group the educators hand money too. Brilliant.

We know that Johns Hopkins, losing by a handful to Notre Dame, had a shot clock violation. In the charity playoff game (for Hopkins) last year. Yeah. like the Bengals were really in the football game against the Pats this past weekend. Sure they were. Close

YOu would figure tablet nerd Tillman ( endearing teasing ) would have that important stat on the Terps stat webpage. But, nothing.

[xxxxxxx]

I agree the shot clock has been a big success, it has also helped a lot with the face off where a dominant guy could end the game in the 4th quarter. With wins at the X teams could take 3 or 4 minutes off the clock with each possession, can't do that anymore.

I also think the new cone in the crease will essentially eliminate the dive as it is almost impossible to land in the crease without touching the line. it won't be worth the risk as we saw in fall ball.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I agree the shot clock has been a big success, it has also helped a lot with the face off where a dominant guy could end the game in the 4th quarter. With wins at the X teams could take 3 or 4 minutes off the clock with each possession, can't do that anymore.

I also think the new cone in the crease will essentially eliminate the dive as it is almost impossible to land in the crease without touching the line. it won't be worth the risk as we saw in fall ball.

Nobody was holding the ball for 4 minutes at the end of a game without a timer being put on. Part of the argument was that towards the end of the game refs were quicker to put it on so a shot clock would provide more consistent application. I didn’t want a shot clock as originally proposed but at 80 seconds it was fine. Hopefully the dive is done. I don’t know why it was brought back.

[ABV 8.3%]

I agree the shot clock has been a big success, it has also helped a lot with the face off where a dominant guy could end the game in the 4th quarter. With wins at the X teams could take 3 or 4 minutes off the clock with each possession, can't do that anymore.

I also think the new cone in the crease will essentially eliminate the dive as it is almost impossible to land in the crease without touching the line. it won't be worth the risk as we saw in fall ball.

Nobody was holding the ball for 4 minutes at the end of a game without a timer being put on. Part of the argument was that towards the end of the game refs were quicker to put it on so a shot clock would provide more consistent application. I didn’t want a shot clock as originally proposed but at 80 seconds it was fine. Hopefully the dive is done. I don’t know why it was brought back.

What games were YOU watching? So untrue.

Stall ball was subjective. Game rules never should be. Inconsistent was the rule.

[xxxxxxx]

I agree the shot clock has been a big success, it has also helped a lot with the face off where a dominant guy could end the game in the 4th quarter. With wins at the X teams could take 3 or 4 minutes off the clock with each possession, can't do that anymore.

I also think the new cone in the crease will essentially eliminate the dive as it is almost impossible to land in the crease without touching the line. it won't be worth the risk as we saw in fall ball.

Nobody was holding the ball for 4 minutes at the end of a game without a timer being put on. Part of the argument was that towards the end of the game refs were quicker to put it on so a shot clock would provide more consistent application. I didn’t want a shot clock as originally proposed but at 80 seconds it was fine. Hopefully the dive is done. I don’t know why it was brought back.

All you had to do was take a lame shot wide, attempt a dodge or drive to the goal and refs would hold off on the clock. There were plenty of long late possessions, but it's history now so it doesn't really matter.

[DU-fan]

Anyone have access to overall shot clock violation statistics. You would figure a "governing" body would want to track the success, or lack of, for the shot clock. n$aa lacrosse stats has no such cat. for shot clock violations. Let's put a new rule in place and NOT track it. This is the group the educators hand money too. Brilliant.

I agree clock violations should be tracked as an official stat. It is stat that points to great defense.

I would love to see the analysis of goalie save percent and number of saves / game pre and post shot clock. I feel like the number of saves per game went up last year, but have not seen good statistical analysis.

The other interesting stat to analyze is if scoring percentage goes down due to rushed shots, shots with a hope of a clock reset, etc.

in the beginning of the season, I also saw some teams dump the ball in the corner with less than 5 seconds left, like in box. But, it looked like teams stopped doing that later in the season.

[DU-fan]

I agree the shot clock has been a big success, it has also helped a lot with the face off where a dominant guy could end the game in the 4th quarter. With wins at the X teams could take 3 or 4 minutes off the clock with each possession, can't do that anymore.

I also think the new cone in the crease will essentially eliminate the dive as it is almost impossible to land in the crease without touching the line. it won't be worth the risk as we saw in fall ball.

Nobody was holding the ball for 4 minutes at the end of a game without a timer being put on. Part of the argument was that towards the end of the game refs were quicker to put it on so a shot clock would provide more consistent application. I didn’t want a shot clock as originally proposed but at 80 seconds it was fine. Hopefully the dive is done. I don’t know why it was brought back.

All you had to do was take a lame shot wide, attempt a dodge or drive to the goal and refs would hold off on the clock. There were plenty of long late possessions, but it's history now so it doesn't really matter.

I'm glad people have stopped talking about "procession shots" post shot clock. It got boring and Denver did it a lot.

[DMac]

Anyone have access to overall shot clock violation statistics. You would figure a "governing" body would want to track the success, or lack of, for the shot clock. n$aa lacrosse stats has no such cat. for shot clock violations. Liet's put a new rule in place and NOT track it. This is the group the educators hand money too. Brilliant.

I don't see where any of this matters, the eye test tells us the pace of the game is much better with the hard clock. Clears are attempted with a much greater sense of urgency than they were prior to the clock which has sped the game up, and while the clock still leaves plenty of time for different kinds of offenses, it doesn't let you screw around nearly as long as you could pre clock era (depending on where you were in the game timewise...the subjectivity sucked).
Don't think there's any question that it's easier to use the clock to your advantage as the game is winding down with the hard clock either, and I don't have any problem with that. Clock management is part of a lot of games and it's okay (with me) that it's part of lacrosse too. Coaches can practice their strategies knowing how much time they have and fans (players too) aren't in the dark as to how long before the thirty second "clock" (counted down by the ref...not too much consistency there) comes on. The clock is all good in my book (again, I'd have no problem with the sixty second reset...gives you less stall time as the game is counting down...but I'm good with the way it is too). My two cents.

[ABV 8.3%]

Anyone have access to overall shot clock violation statistics. You would figure a "governing" body would want to track the success, or lack of, for the shot clock. n$aa lacrosse stats has no such cat. for shot clock violations. Liet's put a new rule in place and NOT track it. This is the group the educators hand money too. Brilliant.

I don't see where any of this matters, the eye test tells us the pace of the game is much better with the hard clock. Clears are attempted with a much greater sense of urgency than they were prior to the clock which has sped the game up, and while the clock still leaves plenty of time for different kinds of offenses, it doesn't let you screw around nearly as long as you could pre clock era (depending on where you were in the game timewise...the subjectivity sucked).
Don't think there's any question that it's easier to use the clock to your advantage as the game is winding down with the hard clock either, and I don't have any problem with that. Clock management is part of a lot of games and it's okay (with me) that it's part of lacrosse too. Coaches can practice their strategies knowing how much time they have and fans (players too) aren't in the dark as to how long before the thirty second "clock" (counted down by the ref...not too much consistency there) comes on. The clock is all good in my book (again, I'd have no problem with the sixty second reset...gives you less stall time as the game is counting down...but I'm good with the way it is too). My two cents.

why track stats? Any of them?

Have a bro in law who's dream retirement is sitting on the Duke (his undergrad alma) basketball bench with a clipboard, tracking some kind of stat.

Lacrosse still thinks that GB's matter. If your team can't catch, wouldn't they have HIGH gb stats?

[DMac]

ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑
Anyone have access to overall shot clock violation statistics. You would figure a "governing" body would want to track the success, or lack of, for the shot clock.

Just don't see where any of this much matters, I don't think shot clock "success" is determined by the number of shot clock violations (or shots, for that matter) but rather by how much it's improved the pace of the game. That was the issue, not number of shots, and that's been fixed.
Nope, not a big stats guy. Stats guy will tell you face offs win games.
TD got three titles or zero?

[palaxoff]

Looking at the NCAA D 1 stats for Turnovers per game comparing the 17 and 18 seasons to 19 Season I'd say the time clock added 3-5 more turnovers, which is where I'd assume that stat would go. Not that it really matters.

While I am not a fan of the full 80 after the clearing possession, I voting leave it alone.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Anyone have access to overall shot clock violation statistics. You would figure a "governing" body would want to track the success, or lack of, for the shot clock. n$aa lacrosse stats has no such cat. for shot clock violations. Liet's put a new rule in place and NOT track it. This is the group the educators hand money too. Brilliant.

I don't see where any of this matters, the eye test tells us the pace of the game is much better with the hard clock. Clears are attempted with a much greater sense of urgency than they were prior to the clock which has sped the game up, and while the clock still leaves plenty of time for different kinds of offenses, it doesn't let you screw around nearly as long as you could pre clock era (depending on where you were in the game timewise...the subjectivity sucked).
Don't think there's any question that it's easier to use the clock to your advantage as the game is winding down with the hard clock either, and I don't have any problem with that. Clock management is part of a lot of games and it's okay (with me) that it's part of lacrosse too. Coaches can practice their strategies knowing how much time they have and fans (players too) aren't in the dark as to how long before the thirty second "clock" (counted down by the ref...not too much consistency there) comes on. The clock is all good in my book (again, I'd have no problem with the sixty second reset...gives you less stall time as the game is counting down...but I'm good with the way it is too). My two cents.

why track stats? Any of them?

Have a bro in law who's dream retirement is sitting on the Duke (his undergrad alma) basketball bench with a clipboard, tracking some kind of stat.

Lacrosse still thinks that GB's matter. If your team can't catch, wouldn't they have HIGH gb stats?

I have a former teammate holding a clipboard for a top 3 hoop program. That’s all I ever see him do so he is effectively retired!