Trump's Russian Collusion

[ABV 8.3%]

Just a hunch, but it's quite possible that Salty was at some point 'hurt' by the professionals in government, whether military or otherwise.

The antipathy and disdain is quite striking, otherwise.

Hah, hah. Nice try, what a sleazy troll move, baiting with unfounded innuendo. No shame.
You could not be more wrong. From a personal perspective, I have no complaints or grievances.
I was, more often than I enjoyed, required to make judgments & participate in proceedings which "hurt" others.
IMHO -- The UCMJ & military justice system is superior to it's civilian counterpart, until a case becomes politicized.
I was stationed at ground zero of the Tailhook scandal. I knew & worked with many of the people most impacted.
I was not involved nor impacted, but I witnessed the abuses of the process by NCIS, JAG & the Chain of Command which result when a political imperative drives the process. Many fine officers who were not involved had their careers ruined or shortened.
It devastated the Navy officer corps, turning warfare communities against one another, ultimately resulting in a CNO committing suicide.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontlin ... webb1.html
The SEAL community is currently enduring a similar political & media driven purge. They deserve better.

I've asked repeatedly for you to share what your experiences in the service were which led you to your pro-Russia, isolationist views, and your antipathy for career IC and foreign service pros.

You chose not to respond, but this one does reveal a little bit.
Your buddies were damaged by the Tailhook scandal repercussions, but not you?
It was "politicized"???

question for you, big green lax of blue blood baltimore lineage .......from I Claudius to Tulsi Gabbard...our worlds warriors OFTEN become
isolationists, with only a sniff of combat. Do you know any COMBAT vets that are PRO war? Or, do they wanna bring our troops home?

Regarding Russia.....maybe Randy of Rad was channelling his inner Obama or rather, when did Russia become a THREAT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bowhUWl6rxQ

How was the intel on Saddam having weapons of ? exactly And, finally, why didn't we have fighter planes over DC on 9/11? So glad we spend TRILLIONS to defend Kuwait (oil), but can't defend our own people

[MDlaxfan76]

Am glad you responded, salty.
You were way, way, wayyyyyyyyyyyy out of line with that comment, MDlax.

Maybe MD will have to eat humble pie and have to apologize.
First time for everything...

I dunno guys, I'd really like to understand what it was in salty's experience that has him hold career IC and foreign service folks in such low regard...if it's not as I suggested is possible, he's free to explain. Same for his pro-Russia isolationism.

His most recent reference to Tailhook may well be an interesting clue to his perspective.
But there may well be something else too.
I definitely don't know, but there's something.

Not sure why you think that question is out of line, DMac.

cradle, I've apologized before on these threads, may well need to do again in the future, and certainly have agreed that I've been wrong multiple times.

No sweat there.

But so far, I see nothing in Salty's responses that suggest to me that my 'hunch' isn't appropriate.

.. ...sure thing. I should give you more personal info, so you can use it to smear me & distort or minimize everything I post.

Keep trolling. ...or read the entire interview with Jim Webb which I linked.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontlin ... webb1.html
It will give you some insight into the perspective of those who serve & you'll see that I'm no outlier.

Interesting interview. Thanks for sharing.
I do see how that perspective could be fostered.

Interestingly, I come to a very different conclusion about what Webb said rather eloquently.
If I read him correctly, he's saying that the top brass should have pushed back against Congressional oversight. He says so directly in the last para.

He makes a case that the 'culture should have been defended'...but interestingly, I don't see any place in that interview where he says the harassment of the women wasn't ok. Indeed, he sounds like he's saying, boys will be boys, he says that of course there was some drinking (as if that was the issue at all), and that 'the assimilation of women' into this highly 'competitive' culture of the Marines was bound to be 'difficult'.

Yet, no where saying that the 'culture' needed to adapt to women being full participants in that 'culture', without sexual harassment being tolerated. Instead, he appears to think that women can't be 'assimilated' without loss of that 'warrior culture'. On the last, I may be over reading his comments, but he definitely doesn't say the inverse. If I'm correct, he certainly was not alone in that view. Wrong, but not alone.

Fascinating that Webb thinks the military is actually above 'Congressional oversight'.

If you said, Salty, that you or someone close to you got caught up in the backlash against the 'culture' that led to the Tailhook event (and rampant rape) and felt under appreciated for your (or their) 'warrior' status, that indeed could explain your antipathy.

It doesn't explain your pro-Russia views, but it would explain your disdain for the 'bureaucrats'.

[MDlaxfan76]

Just a hunch, but it's quite possible that Salty was at some point 'hurt' by the professionals in government, whether military or otherwise.

The antipathy and disdain is quite striking, otherwise.

Hah, hah. Nice try, what a sleazy troll move, baiting with unfounded innuendo. No shame.
You could not be more wrong. From a personal perspective, I have no complaints or grievances.
I was, more often than I enjoyed, required to make judgments & participate in proceedings which "hurt" others.
IMHO -- The UCMJ & military justice system is superior to it's civilian counterpart, until a case becomes politicized.
I was stationed at ground zero of the Tailhook scandal. I knew & worked with many of the people most impacted.
I was not involved nor impacted, but I witnessed the abuses of the process by NCIS, JAG & the Chain of Command which result when a political imperative drives the process. Many fine officers who were not involved had their careers ruined or shortened.
It devastated the Navy officer corps, turning warfare communities against one another, ultimately resulting in a CNO committing suicide.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontlin ... webb1.html
The SEAL community is currently enduring a similar political & media driven purge. They deserve better.

I've asked repeatedly for you to share what your experiences in the service were which led you to your pro-Russia, isolationist views, and your antipathy for career IC and foreign service pros.

You chose not to respond, but this one does reveal a little bit.
Your buddies were damaged by the Tailhook scandal repercussions, but not you?
It was "politicized"???

question for you, big green lax of blue blood baltimore lineage .......from I Claudius to Tulsi Gabbard...our worlds warriors OFTEN become
isolationists, with only a sniff of combat. Do you know any COMBAT vets that are PRO war? Or, do they wanna bring our troops home?

Regarding Russia.....maybe Randy of Rad was channelling his inner Obama or rather, when did Russia become a THREAT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bowhUWl6rxQ

How was the intel on Saddam having weapons of ? exactly And, finally, why didn't we have fighter planes over DC on 9/11? So glad we spend TRILLIONS to defend Kuwait (oil), but can't defend our own people

Fatty, I quite agree that most folks I know who have seen combat certainly want to avoid war. It's brutal in ways most of us will, hopefully, never need to fully understand.

Big difference from wanting to avoid war, to isolationism, the disengagement from the world.
Active, engaged soft power and the strength of forward deployed or available hard power assets is what avoids war, not isolationism.
That's the lesson of history.

Indeed, most combat folks are quite willing engage in combat if they believe that it ultimately prevents much worse.
It's when its ineptly prosecuted, not supported at home, or otherwise pointless, that combat vets become disenchanted.

That's why I said earlier that it's quite understandable that many Vietnam vets had strong anti-war views post their experience.

I find interestingly contradictory the 'isolationists' who are so enthusiastic about a 'trade war' with China, and even with our allies. As if these actions don't actually increase the probability of a 'hot war' downstream. Anti-historical knuckleheads.

[dislaxxic]

THE VIRGIN BIRTH OF THE FIRST RUDY GIULIANI-MIKE POMPEO CALL

Who dunit??

..

[dislaxxic]

The Smoking Video??

Three Triple Big Macs with cheese, please...make that DOUBLE CHEESE!!

..

[Bandito]

The hearings and the Fox News support for Impeachment were meant to get Republicans in Congress to abandon Trump.

Because they didn't, the media is smearing them now.

This tells me they don't have the votes in the House.

Democrats are a joke. They know they have no shot in 2020. The death of the Democrat Party is already taking place.

[dislaxxic]

Trump’s Defenders Are Flirting With Nihilism

The impeachment and Senate trial of the president will force voters to decide whether they are prepared to accept the GOP’s dismissal of facts.

..

[runrussellrun]

Fatty, I quite agree that most folks I know who have seen combat certainly want to avoid war. It's brutal in ways most of us will, hopefully, never need to fully understand.

Big difference from wanting to avoid war, to isolationism, the disengagement from the world. So, why make the us/them or black/white comparison, if there is a big difference ? Think about it and than you mite understand our perspective.
Active, engaged soft power and the strength of forward deployed or available hard power assets is what avoids war, not isolationism.
That's the lesson of history. What US history ? Having forts guarding our nations ports, particulary the eastern seaboard, prevented what war and with what country ? Oh, you mean Batman ? That "forward" deployment has prevented WHAT war, exactly ? Guessing the folks I know have died in a video game

Indeed, most combat folks are quite willing engage in combat if they believe that it ultimately prevents much worse.
It's when its ineptly prosecuted, not supported at home, or otherwise pointless, that combat vets become disenchanted. A vague, non representative generalization. No kneed to right, other then too jest too right

That's why I said earlier that it's quite understandable that many Vietnam vets had strong anti-war views post their experience. This is insulting. We have engagements world wide, have for decades. In those engagements, people have died. Remember, we haven't declared WAR, legally anywayz, in our lifetime. MDLAX, you insult all those that have served, and died, all these decades.....from non existent war deaths, in your world, guessing "events" like zona rosa, or more recently in Niger. Black Hawk Down is based on Tom Clancy's fiction, as are other movies that depict fictional events just not on your bookshelf of MSM wars......for shame.

I find interestingly contradictory the 'isolationists' who are so enthusiastic about a 'trade war' with China, and even with our allies. As if these actions don't actually increase the probability of a 'hot war' downstream. Anti-historical knuckleheads. again, the only one that describes that is yourself. Your, this or that, isolationist or full all in, 500 plus "bases" preventing wars, which, I guess, in your view, they are doing. Guessing the US Marines killed in Beruit, along with 58 French on the same day, don't count. Or rather, any of the survivors opinions don't count because it's not a "war" get it know

[runrussellrun]

The hearings and the Fox News support for Impeachment were meant to get Republicans in Congress to abandon Trump.

Because they didn't, the media is smearing them now.

This tells me they don't have the votes in the House.

Democrats are a joke. They know they have no shot in 2020. The death of the Democrat Party is already taking place.

it hasn't existed since Truman, or maybe lbj.....but I too would welcome the demise of the dems.

then what? trump will reel in spending and oligarchy bailouts how weird, you think this

[MDlaxfan76]

sheesh, fatty, I can't even follow this rambling around.

Please don't mis-characterize my views.

In no way am I being insulting to Vietnam vets nor vets of all sorts of other combat before or since. Nor those currently serving.

Here's what history tells us about 'isolationism' being the prevailing political perspective.
War comes to us.

We don't need to be spoiling for a hot war fight all around the world as the only alternative to isolationism.
It's needn't be a black-white choice.

Active engagement, primarily with soft power, is greatly to be preferred over combat.
But if combat is ever necessary (and sometimes that is the case), better to be limited and overseas than here at home.

[ABV 8.3%]

sheesh, fatty, I can't even follow this rambling around. not many are surprised by this statement......

Please don't mis-characterize my views. OK. please stop doing the same of others: for others.

In no way am I being insulting to Vietnam vets nor vets of all sorts of other combat before or since. Nor those currently serving. Just ignoring where OTHER people, like myself or randy rady of Sotheby's Saltyness, may get their opinions from. experiences you , just ignore. got it.

Here's what history tells us about 'isolationism' being the prevailing political perspective.
War comes to us. When has this happened, since the 1800's, has ANY war come to us? please don't say Pearl Harbor. It was NOT part of "us".

We don't need to be spoiling for a hot war fight all around the world as the only alternative to isolationism.
It's needn't be a black-white choice. and yet, you follow this no duh comment with this

Active engagement, primarily with soft power, is greatly to be preferred over combat.
But if combat is ever necessary (and sometimes that is the case), better to be limited and overseas than here at home. Can you list 3 times that combat was necessary, in , say, south america, that resulted in US deaths, that was "sometimes, necessarysilly" Top of head, no wiki-ing

[ggait]

Yovanovitch wouldn’t hang Trump’s portrait. She had to go.

Trumpism in a nutshell:

1. Shallow, narcissistic and childish.

2. False. Reports are that Amb Yov hung the portrait as soon as it arrived, but the WH was slow in producing the portraits. Same thing happened in most other embassies too.

3. Projection. This is a cover story for the sleazy nefarious stuff that was really going on. Which was trying to do corruption (e.g. Lev and Igor show) rather than actually fight corruption (which was what Amb Yov was actually doing).

The gas-lighting being done by the GOP these days is really extraordinary. Hard to imagine that getting a tax cut and some righty judges makes it all worthwhile.

[RedFromMI]

Great opinion piece by Josh Marshal of what the Rudes is really doing with Ukraine...

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/th ... ig-picture

[Bandito]

Yovanovitch wouldn’t hang Trump’s portrait. She had to go.

Trumpism in a nutshell:

1. Shallow, narcissistic and childish.

2. False. Reports are that Amb Yov hung the portrait as soon as it arrived, but the WH was slow in producing the portraits. Same thing happened in most other embassies too.

3. Projection. This is a cover story for the sleazy nefarious stuff that was really going on. Which was trying to do corruption (e.g. Lev and Igor show) rather than actually fight corruption (which was what Amb Yov was actually doing).

The gas-lighting being done by the GOP these days is really extraordinary. Hard to imagine that getting a tax cut and some righty judges makes it all worthwhile.

As usual you’re full of it. Trump is a populist. A man of the people of all walks of life (34% black approval rating). He’s pro America who is doing amazing things for all Americans despite the Democrats and Deep State trying to stop his winning at every turn. Your post reeks of elitism, bigotry, arrogance and just plain ignorance. You’re obviously nervous that Trump will be re- elected. Trump is crushing it, despite over 90 percent negative coverage. Dems and the media and deep state are all connected and they are beside themselves that Trump is President and winning for all Americans.

[ggait]

A man of the people of all walks of life (34% black approval rating).

Now that's what I call gas-lighting!

Which, by the way, is a technique frequently used in manipulative/abusive relationships.

Going to be quite a hangover for the Trumpsters when Trump finally goes away.

[Bandito]

A man of the people of all walks of life (34% black approval rating).

Now that's what I call gas-lighting!

Which, by the way, is a technique frequently used in manipulative/abusive relationships.

Going to be quite a hangover for the Trumpsters when Trump finally goes away.

Two reliable polls ( Rasmussen predicted as did I Trump winning. You didn’t). Have high approval from blacks. Lots are waking up from years of mind enslavement from the DemonKKKrat party. Trump will be YOUR President through 2024. Must stink to be this wrong all the time. Too bad for you.

[RedFromMI]

A man of the people of all walks of life (34% black approval rating).

Now that's what I call gas-lighting!

Which, by the way, is a technique frequently used in manipulative/abusive relationships.

Going to be quite a hangover for the Trumpsters when Trump finally goes away.

Two reliable polls ( Rasmussen predicted as did I Trump winning. You didn’t). Have high approval from blacks. Lots are waking up from years of mind enslavement from the DemonKKKrat party. Trump will be YOUR President through 2024. Must stink to be this wrong all the time. Too bad for you.

Rasmussen, in their latest approval poll for Trump has him underwater 44% to 55%. Fivethirtyeight correction for bias built into their voter screen puts that poll at 40% approval vs 56% disapproval. This is among _likely_ voters. Not a very good indicator of re-election...

Your 34% number seems made up. Most everyone else has black approval of Trump at around 10% or so.

[RedFromMI]

Great article about how the Rs actually know that the whole Ukraine did it BS are lies:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -his-lies/

Basically - the Senate IC has been investigating both Trump and Hillary potential "collusion" in the past election, and that report will NOT support the Ukraine did it crap...

[dislaxxic]

As usual you’re full of it. Trump is a populist. A man of the people of all walks of life (34% black approval rating). He’s pro America who is doing amazing things for all Americans despite the Democrats and Deep State trying to stop his winning at every turn. Your post reeks of elitism, bigotry, arrogance and just plain ignorance. You’re obviously nervous that Trump will be re- elected. Trump is crushing it, despite over 90 percent negative coverage. Dems and the media and deep state are all connected and they are beside themselves that Trump is President and winning for all Americans.

There you have it, in a nutshell: what is ALL WRONG with the path the country is on under Don the Con.

Victimization. Class warfare. No-Nothingism (aka, the "revenge" of the low information voter). Paranoia. Did i say abject victimhood?

Cry us a river, Trump Base Voter. The jig is up with this Clown Car and the attendant criminality in the trunk.

But, by all means, keep coming around with these views from the Alternate Universe that is Trumplandia.

Sad.

..

[Bandito]

As usual you’re full of it. Trump is a populist. A man of the people of all walks of life (34% black approval rating). He’s pro America who is doing amazing things for all Americans despite the Democrats and Deep State trying to stop his winning at every turn. Your post reeks of elitism, bigotry, arrogance and just plain ignorance. You’re obviously nervous that Trump will be re- elected. Trump is crushing it, despite over 90 percent negative coverage. Dems and the media and deep state are all connected and they are beside themselves that Trump is President and winning for all Americans.

There you have it, in a nutshell: what is ALL WRONG with the path the country is on under Don the Con.

Victimization. Class warfare. No-Nothingism (aka, the "revenge" of the low information voter). Paranoia. Did i say abject victimhood?

Cry us a river, Trump Base Voter. The jig is up with this Clown Car and the attendant criminality in the trunk.

But, by all means, keep coming around with these views from the Alternate Universe that is Trumplandia.

Sad.

..

reported for name calling. Enjoy your vacation.

You are so triggered it’s laughable. MAGA KAG. Why do you wish to keep blacks slaves to the Democrat plantation? Why are you so afraid of blacks knowing the truth of racism? Slavery and KKK of the Democrat party? That’s very bigoted and racist of you.