LaxPower Back-Up Stick

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:46 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:45 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:28 pm Yes, Covid was presented earlier...whole litany of possible factors that could have made Floyd more vulnerable.

But it's all BS, because the key factor was Chauvin's actions not Floyd's possible vulnerability. ANY person could have been, likely would have been, asphyxiated by the knee and positioning for that period of time, and Chauvin's non removal of the pressure even after being told that Floyd was unresponsive and had no pulse is all one needs to know that Chauvin, at a minimum, did not care if his actions were killing Floyd.

Any reasonable person, paying attention, knows that Chauvin is guilty of at least one of the optional charges, if not all three.

If the jury is hung, there will be hell to pay for sure. One more piece of evidence that even now, there isn't an ability to expect justice from our justice system, if you are a black man.

That said, I think we're at a potential pivot point to significantly better outcomes.

1) The protests last summer and continuing have been massive and interracially supported.
2) The police have broken past prior 'code' and have made clear that what Chauvin did was egregiously against policy and training, no excuse, and prosecution and punishment is supported by them.

Hope so.

+1 agreed. Based on the fact that the state of Minnesota took it seriously and did the best job they could, perhaps possible on the prosecution.

But only potential pivot point.
Too many cases of juries not being willing to convict police to take it to the bank.

SNL's cold open a week ago was hilarious on this...painfully hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H_ZdnvMJnE

On the other hand, it's pretty clear that the right is working up their whining excuses about the 'mob" and "Maxine", so a guilty verdict in this trial is not singularly going to mean the pivot has occurred, but as police departments begin to see the rewards of getting on the side of actual justice in such cases, it could well become the norm rather than the very rare exception.

About 20 states have already outlawed the choke holds that have caused these deaths in recent years. I don't recall ever seeing this particular movie with a state DA putting the effort into a case like this. Most of the time you don't even get an indictment. The majority of white America is behind the prosecution and they are in the streets. Maybe we don't get the conviction. But things are different. Will the change stick, I hope so. Will the change spread across the nation, I hope so. Will the COP serve time, I hope so.

The gator troll can't even spell Sicknick's name correctly, such respect.

Francisco J. Diaz, the examiner, said Sicknick died after suffering two strokes the day after the riot, caused by a blood clot that prevented flow to the base of Sicknick’s brain stem. Diaz added that “all that transpired” during the Capitol riot “played a role in his condition.”

Two rioters are charged with attacking Sicknick with a chemical irritant. Diaz’s determination that Sicknick died of natural causes will likely hamper prosecutors’ efforts to charge the two rioters with homicide.

But they sure as heck are guilty of assault.
And pretty sure the prosecution will spell his name correctly.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:38 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:46 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:45 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:28 pm Yes, Covid was presented earlier...whole litany of possible factors that could have made Floyd more vulnerable.

But it's all BS, because the key factor was Chauvin's actions not Floyd's possible vulnerability. ANY person could have been, likely would have been, asphyxiated by the knee and positioning for that period of time, and Chauvin's non removal of the pressure even after being told that Floyd was unresponsive and had no pulse is all one needs to know that Chauvin, at a minimum, did not care if his actions were killing Floyd.

Any reasonable person, paying attention, knows that Chauvin is guilty of at least one of the optional charges, if not all three.

If the jury is hung, there will be hell to pay for sure. One more piece of evidence that even now, there isn't an ability to expect justice from our justice system, if you are a black man.

That said, I think we're at a potential pivot point to significantly better outcomes.

1) The protests last summer and continuing have been massive and interracially supported.
2) The police have broken past prior 'code' and have made clear that what Chauvin did was egregiously against policy and training, no excuse, and prosecution and punishment is supported by them.

Hope so.

+1 agreed. Based on the fact that the state of Minnesota took it seriously and did the best job they could, perhaps possible on the prosecution.

But only potential pivot point.
Too many cases of juries not being willing to convict police to take it to the bank.

SNL's cold open a week ago was hilarious on this...painfully hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H_ZdnvMJnE

On the other hand, it's pretty clear that the right is working up their whining excuses about the 'mob" and "Maxine", so a guilty verdict in this trial is not singularly going to mean the pivot has occurred, but as police departments begin to see the rewards of getting on the side of actual justice in such cases, it could well become the norm rather than the very rare exception.

About 20 states have already outlawed the choke holds that have caused these deaths in recent years. I don't recall ever seeing this particular movie with a state DA putting the effort into a case like this. Most of the time you don't even get an indictment. The majority of white America is behind the prosecution and they are in the streets. Maybe we don't get the conviction. But things are different. Will the change stick, I hope so. Will the change spread across the nation, I hope so. Will the COP serve time, I hope so.

Yup, +1.
Solid possibility on all such hopes.
But man it's discouraging to see the garbage spewing from the hard right.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:44 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:38 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:46 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:45 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:28 pm Yes, Covid was presented earlier...whole litany of possible factors that could have made Floyd more vulnerable.

But it's all BS, because the key factor was Chauvin's actions not Floyd's possible vulnerability. ANY person could have been, likely would have been, asphyxiated by the knee and positioning for that period of time, and Chauvin's non removal of the pressure even after being told that Floyd was unresponsive and had no pulse is all one needs to know that Chauvin, at a minimum, did not care if his actions were killing Floyd.

Any reasonable person, paying attention, knows that Chauvin is guilty of at least one of the optional charges, if not all three.

If the jury is hung, there will be hell to pay for sure. One more piece of evidence that even now, there isn't an ability to expect justice from our justice system, if you are a black man.

That said, I think we're at a potential pivot point to significantly better outcomes.

1) The protests last summer and continuing have been massive and interracially supported.
2) The police have broken past prior 'code' and have made clear that what Chauvin did was egregiously against policy and training, no excuse, and prosecution and punishment is supported by them.

Hope so.

+1 agreed. Based on the fact that the state of Minnesota took it seriously and did the best job they could, perhaps possible on the prosecution.

But only potential pivot point.
Too many cases of juries not being willing to convict police to take it to the bank.

SNL's cold open a week ago was hilarious on this...painfully hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H_ZdnvMJnE

On the other hand, it's pretty clear that the right is working up their whining excuses about the 'mob" and "Maxine", so a guilty verdict in this trial is not singularly going to mean the pivot has occurred, but as police departments begin to see the rewards of getting on the side of actual justice in such cases, it could well become the norm rather than the very rare exception.

About 20 states have already outlawed the choke holds that have caused these deaths in recent years. I don't recall ever seeing this particular movie with a state DA putting the effort into a case like this. Most of the time you don't even get an indictment. The majority of white America is behind the prosecution and they are in the streets. Maybe we don't get the conviction. But things are different. Will the change stick, I hope so. Will the change spread across the nation, I hope so. Will the COP serve time, I hope so.

Yup, +1.
Solid possibility on all such hopes.
But man it's discouraging to see the garbage spewing from the hard right.

... somethings never change, or are the last to change.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:31 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:43 pm The jury will convict. They don't want their city torched. Mad Maxine has spoken.

The jurors don't want to be doxxed then targeted. The mob will rule.
They just saw the home of a defense witness attacked.

You make it sound like (but I'm not going to assume) the only reason Chauvin would be convicted would be because of fear of the mob, not that he's a bad cop who killed a man and was caught on camera doing so.

Tell us straight, Salty, do you think Chauvin is guilty or not?

I didn't watch enough of the trial to have an opinion.
I'd need to hear all the evidence & study the elements of each crime charged.
I do not view Floyd as an innocent victim.
I know that if I were on the jury, I'd fear for my safety if I had reasonable doubt & voted to acquit.
I'm glad I don't have to decide.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:51 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:31 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:43 pm The jury will convict. They don't want their city torched. Mad Maxine has spoken.

The jurors don't want to be doxxed then targeted. The mob will rule.
They just saw the home of a defense witness attacked.

You make it sound like (but I'm not going to assume) the only reason Chauvin would be convicted would be because of fear of the mob, not that he's a bad cop who killed a man and was caught on camera doing so.

Tell us straight, Salty, do you think Chauvin is guilty or not?

I didn't watch enough of the trial to have an opinion.
I'd need to hear all the evidence & study the elements of each crime charged.
I know that if I were on the jury, I'd fear for my safety if I had reasonable doubt & voted to acquit.
I'm glad I don't have to decide.

Did you watch the full video?

Lemme help you out, everyone called, top to bottom from the Minneapolis police department testified that Chauvin's actions were against their dept policy and procedure and were against their training, including all refresher courses. The defense offered no one from the Minneapolis police dept who testified otherwise.

The prosecution called numerous experts on the cause of death, the timing of the actual expiration, all saying that Chauvin's actions caused the death and that he died more than 3 minutes before Chauvin took his knee off. And that Chauvin knew that Floyd had stopped struggling, was unresponsive, and did not have a pulse for those last 3+ minutes...yet even then refused to take the pressure off.

The defense called multiple experts to claim that Floyd's death could have been caused by additional factors that made him more vulnerable to the effect of asphyxiation than someone else...but such contributions are insufficient, under the law, to overcome the contribution of the pressure to Floyd's neck and back for 9+minutes while handcuffed and on the ground gasping for breath.

Read the charges and their requirements of proof under the law. They don't require intent to kill, though to the common person's eye, sure looked like Chauvin had such intent after he knew that Floyd had no pulse.

Believe me, the protestors have done and reviewed all of the above. This is not a remotely close call.

Each of these jury members assured the Court, the prosecution and the defense, that they would be impartial, unswayed by public pressure or bias. They also committed to not watch or read any news, nor to discuss the case with anyone, nor among themselves.

And yet, despite the evidence and the law, juries typically fail to convict police.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:44 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:38 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:46 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:45 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:28 pm Yes, Covid was presented earlier...whole litany of possible factors that could have made Floyd more vulnerable.

But it's all BS, because the key factor was Chauvin's actions not Floyd's possible vulnerability. ANY person could have been, likely would have been, asphyxiated by the knee and positioning for that period of time, and Chauvin's non removal of the pressure even after being told that Floyd was unresponsive and had no pulse is all one needs to know that Chauvin, at a minimum, did not care if his actions were killing Floyd.

Any reasonable person, paying attention, knows that Chauvin is guilty of at least one of the optional charges, if not all three.

If the jury is hung, there will be hell to pay for sure. One more piece of evidence that even now, there isn't an ability to expect justice from our justice system, if you are a black man.

That said, I think we're at a potential pivot point to significantly better outcomes.

1) The protests last summer and continuing have been massive and interracially supported.
2) The police have broken past prior 'code' and have made clear that what Chauvin did was egregiously against policy and training, no excuse, and prosecution and punishment is supported by them.

Hope so.

+1 agreed. Based on the fact that the state of Minnesota took it seriously and did the best job they could, perhaps possible on the prosecution.

But only potential pivot point.
Too many cases of juries not being willing to convict police to take it to the bank.

SNL's cold open a week ago was hilarious on this...painfully hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H_ZdnvMJnE

On the other hand, it's pretty clear that the right is working up their whining excuses about the 'mob" and "Maxine", so a guilty verdict in this trial is not singularly going to mean the pivot has occurred, but as police departments begin to see the rewards of getting on the side of actual justice in such cases, it could well become the norm rather than the very rare exception.

About 20 states have already outlawed the choke holds that have caused these deaths in recent years. I don't recall ever seeing this particular movie with a state DA putting the effort into a case like this. Most of the time you don't even get an indictment. The majority of white America is behind the prosecution and they are in the streets. Maybe we don't get the conviction. But things are different. Will the change stick, I hope so. Will the change spread across the nation, I hope so. Will the COP serve time, I hope so.

Yup, +1.
Solid possibility on all such hopes.
But man it's discouraging to see the garbage spewing from the hard right.

Are you planning on moving to East Baltimore any time soon? How about the WB? You know, so you can be amongst the people that you care about so much. Nah, I am sure that you will stay in Roland Park so that you can virtue signal and judge from afar. Roland Park, a great place to practice arm chair liberalism.

You went to Florida, how unbelievably selfish of you. You could have killed someone's grandmother. How can you live with yourself?

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:51 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:31 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:43 pm The jury will convict. They don't want their city torched. Mad Maxine has spoken.

The jurors don't want to be doxxed then targeted. The mob will rule.
They just saw the home of a defense witness attacked.

You make it sound like (but I'm not going to assume) the only reason Chauvin would be convicted would be because of fear of the mob, not that he's a bad cop who killed a man and was caught on camera doing so.

Tell us straight, Salty, do you think Chauvin is guilty or not?

I didn't watch enough of the trial to have an opinion.
I'd need to hear all the evidence & study the elements of each crime charged.
I know that if I were on the jury, I'd fear for my safety if I had reasonable doubt & voted to acquit.
I'm glad I don't have to decide.

Did you watch the full video?

Lemme help you out, everyone called, top to bottom from the Minneapolis police department testified that Chauvin's actions were against their dept policy and procedure and were against their training, including all refresher courses. The defense offered no one from the Minneapolis police dept who testified otherwise.

The prosecution called numerous experts on the cause of death, the timing of the actual expiration, all saying that Chauvin's actions caused the death and that he died more than 3 minutes before Chauvin took his knee off. And that Chauvin knew that Floyd had stopped struggling, was unresponsive, and did not have a pulse for those last 3+ minutes...yet even then refused to take the pressure off.

The defense called multiple experts to claim that Floyd's death could have been caused by additional factors that made him more vulnerable to the effect of asphyxiation than someone else...but such contributions are insufficient, under the law, to overcome the contribution of the pressure to Floyd's neck and back for 9+minutes while handcuffed and on the ground gasping for breath.

Read the charges and their requirements of proof under the law. They don't require intent to kill, though to the common person's eye, sure looked like Chauvin had such intent after he knew that Floyd had no pulse.

Believe me, the protestors have done and reviewed all of the above. This is not a remotely close call.

Each of these jury members assured the Court, the prosecution and the defense, that they would be impartial, unswayed by public pressure or bias.

And yet, despite the evidence and the law, juries typically fail to convict police.

You really do know everything, you are so impressive. It must be so awesome to be all knowing. You are one impressive gas bag, do you love the smell of your own farts?

jhu93 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:06 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:44 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:38 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:46 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:45 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:28 pm Yes, Covid was presented earlier...whole litany of possible factors that could have made Floyd more vulnerable.

But it's all BS, because the key factor was Chauvin's actions not Floyd's possible vulnerability. ANY person could have been, likely would have been, asphyxiated by the knee and positioning for that period of time, and Chauvin's non removal of the pressure even after being told that Floyd was unresponsive and had no pulse is all one needs to know that Chauvin, at a minimum, did not care if his actions were killing Floyd.

Any reasonable person, paying attention, knows that Chauvin is guilty of at least one of the optional charges, if not all three.

If the jury is hung, there will be hell to pay for sure. One more piece of evidence that even now, there isn't an ability to expect justice from our justice system, if you are a black man.

That said, I think we're at a potential pivot point to significantly better outcomes.

1) The protests last summer and continuing have been massive and interracially supported.
2) The police have broken past prior 'code' and have made clear that what Chauvin did was egregiously against policy and training, no excuse, and prosecution and punishment is supported by them.

Hope so.

+1 agreed. Based on the fact that the state of Minnesota took it seriously and did the best job they could, perhaps possible on the prosecution.

But only potential pivot point.
Too many cases of juries not being willing to convict police to take it to the bank.

SNL's cold open a week ago was hilarious on this...painfully hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H_ZdnvMJnE

On the other hand, it's pretty clear that the right is working up their whining excuses about the 'mob" and "Maxine", so a guilty verdict in this trial is not singularly going to mean the pivot has occurred, but as police departments begin to see the rewards of getting on the side of actual justice in such cases, it could well become the norm rather than the very rare exception.

About 20 states have already outlawed the choke holds that have caused these deaths in recent years. I don't recall ever seeing this particular movie with a state DA putting the effort into a case like this. Most of the time you don't even get an indictment. The majority of white America is behind the prosecution and they are in the streets. Maybe we don't get the conviction. But things are different. Will the change stick, I hope so. Will the change spread across the nation, I hope so. Will the COP serve time, I hope so.

Yup, +1.
Solid possibility on all such hopes.
But man it's discouraging to see the garbage spewing from the hard right.

Are you planning on moving to East Baltimore any time soon? How about the WB? You know, so you can be amongst the people that you care about so much. Nah, I am sure that you will stay in Roland Park so that you can virtue signal and judge from afar. Roland Park, a great place to practice arm chair liberalism.

You went to Florida, how unbelievably selfish of you. You could have killed someone's grandmother. How can you live with yourself?

A pathway to provide upwardly mobile opportunities for locals to eventually put themselves in a position to move to Homeland and send their kids to Calvert School is better than moving to EB or WB.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:51 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:31 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:43 pm The jury will convict. They don't want their city torched. Mad Maxine has spoken.

The jurors don't want to be doxxed then targeted. The mob will rule.
They just saw the home of a defense witness attacked.

You make it sound like (but I'm not going to assume) the only reason Chauvin would be convicted would be because of fear of the mob, not that he's a bad cop who killed a man and was caught on camera doing so.

Tell us straight, Salty, do you think Chauvin is guilty or not?

I didn't watch enough of the trial to have an opinion.
I'd need to hear all the evidence & study the elements of each crime charged.
I know that if I were on the jury, I'd fear for my safety if I had reasonable doubt & voted to acquit.
I'm glad I don't have to decide.

Did you watch the full video?

I watched the entire video when it first came out months ago. including Floyd resisting arrest.
I didn't follow the trial because I expect Floyd to be convicted of something, no matter the merits of the case, due to jury intimidation in that venue.

jhu93 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:06 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:44 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:38 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:46 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:45 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:28 pm Yes, Covid was presented earlier...whole litany of possible factors that could have made Floyd more vulnerable.

But it's all BS, because the key factor was Chauvin's actions not Floyd's possible vulnerability. ANY person could have been, likely would have been, asphyxiated by the knee and positioning for that period of time, and Chauvin's non removal of the pressure even after being told that Floyd was unresponsive and had no pulse is all one needs to know that Chauvin, at a minimum, did not care if his actions were killing Floyd.

Any reasonable person, paying attention, knows that Chauvin is guilty of at least one of the optional charges, if not all three.

If the jury is hung, there will be hell to pay for sure. One more piece of evidence that even now, there isn't an ability to expect justice from our justice system, if you are a black man.

That said, I think we're at a potential pivot point to significantly better outcomes.

1) The protests last summer and continuing have been massive and interracially supported.
2) The police have broken past prior 'code' and have made clear that what Chauvin did was egregiously against policy and training, no excuse, and prosecution and punishment is supported by them.

Hope so.

+1 agreed. Based on the fact that the state of Minnesota took it seriously and did the best job they could, perhaps possible on the prosecution.

But only potential pivot point.
Too many cases of juries not being willing to convict police to take it to the bank.

SNL's cold open a week ago was hilarious on this...painfully hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H_ZdnvMJnE

On the other hand, it's pretty clear that the right is working up their whining excuses about the 'mob" and "Maxine", so a guilty verdict in this trial is not singularly going to mean the pivot has occurred, but as police departments begin to see the rewards of getting on the side of actual justice in such cases, it could well become the norm rather than the very rare exception.

About 20 states have already outlawed the choke holds that have caused these deaths in recent years. I don't recall ever seeing this particular movie with a state DA putting the effort into a case like this. Most of the time you don't even get an indictment. The majority of white America is behind the prosecution and they are in the streets. Maybe we don't get the conviction. But things are different. Will the change stick, I hope so. Will the change spread across the nation, I hope so. Will the COP serve time, I hope so.

Yup, +1.
Solid possibility on all such hopes.
But man it's discouraging to see the garbage spewing from the hard right.

Are you planning on moving to East Baltimore any time soon? How about the WB? You know, so you can be amongst the people that you care about so much. Nah, I am sure that you will stay in Roland Park so that you can virtue signal and judge from afar. Roland Park, a great place to practice arm chair liberalism.

You went to Florida, how unbelievably selfish of you. You could have killed someone's grandmother. How can you live with yourself?

Yikes.
wondered who you were and looked at your last couple of posts. Last one was this doozy on the Hopkins thread, italics being your part:

Re: Johns Hopkins 2021
Report Quote
Post by jhu93 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:13 pm

flalax22 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:33 pm
Just heard they are back practicing tomorrow to prepare for Ohio. Looks like the Jays are back on track.

Can't bring yourself to say State, huh? You must be a SCUM fan. Hopefully Hopkins at least shows up unlike Captain Autism and his team of Skunk Weasels did in December. Have fun watching your hero go 0-6 when SCUM gets skull dragged in Ann Arbor again this November.

You must be a barrel of fun.

You actually think you've homeworked me???

Nope, I don't live in Roland Park...worse, Greenspring Valley. But yeah, I'm involved in both East and West Baltimore. My wife more so than me. "judge from afar" ?

Yes, we came down to Florida in November...to help keep my 84 yr old mother out of harm's way and entertained during COVID, a year after my dad's passing...we can work from anywhere. I have zero idea how you handled yourself during the pandemic, but I'm pretty sure I'm firmly in the camp of having been careful to minimize any contribution to community spread by myself and my family. You?

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:16 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:51 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:31 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:43 pm The jury will convict. They don't want their city torched. Mad Maxine has spoken.

The jurors don't want to be doxxed then targeted. The mob will rule.
They just saw the home of a defense witness attacked.

You make it sound like (but I'm not going to assume) the only reason Chauvin would be convicted would be because of fear of the mob, not that he's a bad cop who killed a man and was caught on camera doing so.

Tell us straight, Salty, do you think Chauvin is guilty or not?

I didn't watch enough of the trial to have an opinion.
I'd need to hear all the evidence & study the elements of each crime charged.
I know that if I were on the jury, I'd fear for my safety if I had reasonable doubt & voted to acquit.
I'm glad I don't have to decide.

Did you watch the full video?

I watched the entire video when it first came out months ago. including Floyd resisting arrest.
I didn't follow the trial because I expect Floyd to be convicted of something, no matter the merits of the case, due to jury intimidation in that venue.

You meant Chauvin...your assumption, from the video, was that Chauvin was innocent but would be convicted anyway...because the jury would be intimidated? Yikes.

I prefer your analysis on the National Security thread.

jhu93 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:08 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:51 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:31 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:43 pm The jury will convict. They don't want their city torched. Mad Maxine has spoken.

The jurors don't want to be doxxed then targeted. The mob will rule.
They just saw the home of a defense witness attacked.

You make it sound like (but I'm not going to assume) the only reason Chauvin would be convicted would be because of fear of the mob, not that he's a bad cop who killed a man and was caught on camera doing so.

Tell us straight, Salty, do you think Chauvin is guilty or not?

I didn't watch enough of the trial to have an opinion.
I'd need to hear all the evidence & study the elements of each crime charged.
I know that if I were on the jury, I'd fear for my safety if I had reasonable doubt & voted to acquit.
I'm glad I don't have to decide.

Did you watch the full video?

Lemme help you out, everyone called, top to bottom from the Minneapolis police department testified that Chauvin's actions were against their dept policy and procedure and were against their training, including all refresher courses. The defense offered no one from the Minneapolis police dept who testified otherwise.

The prosecution called numerous experts on the cause of death, the timing of the actual expiration, all saying that Chauvin's actions caused the death and that he died more than 3 minutes before Chauvin took his knee off. And that Chauvin knew that Floyd had stopped struggling, was unresponsive, and did not have a pulse for those last 3+ minutes...yet even then refused to take the pressure off.

The defense called multiple experts to claim that Floyd's death could have been caused by additional factors that made him more vulnerable to the effect of asphyxiation than someone else...but such contributions are insufficient, under the law, to overcome the contribution of the pressure to Floyd's neck and back for 9+minutes while handcuffed and on the ground gasping for breath.

Read the charges and their requirements of proof under the law. They don't require intent to kill, though to the common person's eye, sure looked like Chauvin had such intent after he knew that Floyd had no pulse.

Believe me, the protestors have done and reviewed all of the above. This is not a remotely close call.

Each of these jury members assured the Court, the prosecution and the defense, that they would be impartial, unswayed by public pressure or bias.

And yet, despite the evidence and the law, juries typically fail to convict police.

You really do know everything, you are so impressive. It must be so awesome to be all knowing. You are one impressive gas bag, do you love the smell of your own farts?

Lovely fella you are.
If you don't actually want to discuss the topic, why are you here?

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:20 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:16 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:51 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:31 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:43 pm The jury will convict. They don't want their city torched. Mad Maxine has spoken.

The jurors don't want to be doxxed then targeted. The mob will rule.
They just saw the home of a defense witness attacked.

You make it sound like (but I'm not going to assume) the only reason Chauvin would be convicted would be because of fear of the mob, not that he's a bad cop who killed a man and was caught on camera doing so.

Tell us straight, Salty, do you think Chauvin is guilty or not?

I didn't watch enough of the trial to have an opinion.
I'd need to hear all the evidence & study the elements of each crime charged.
I know that if I were on the jury, I'd fear for my safety if I had reasonable doubt & voted to acquit.
I'm glad I don't have to decide.

Did you watch the full video?

I watched the entire video when it first came out months ago. including Floyd resisting arrest.
I didn't follow the trial because I expect Floyd to be convicted of something, no matter the merits of the case, due to jury intimidation in that venue.

You meant Chauvin...your assumption, from the video, was that Chauvin was innocent but would be convicted anyway...because the jury would be intimidated? Yikes.

I prefer your analysis on the National Security thread.

Wrong. I did not assume that Chauvin is innocent. I did not know the details, nor do I still.
It's up to the jury to decide if they have reasonable doubt. I don't know enough to reach a conclusion.
I saw enough to conclude that Floyd was resisting arrest & was extremely difficult to subdue.
You are naive if you think a jury can't be intimidated in a case like this.
Even the Judge tacitly admitted it when he remarked about the possibility of an appeal based on Water's influence.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:20 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:16 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:51 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:31 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:43 pm The jury will convict. They don't want their city torched. Mad Maxine has spoken.

The jurors don't want to be doxxed then targeted. The mob will rule.
They just saw the home of a defense witness attacked.

You make it sound like (but I'm not going to assume) the only reason Chauvin would be convicted would be because of fear of the mob, not that he's a bad cop who killed a man and was caught on camera doing so.

Tell us straight, Salty, do you think Chauvin is guilty or not?

I didn't watch enough of the trial to have an opinion.
I'd need to hear all the evidence & study the elements of each crime charged.
I know that if I were on the jury, I'd fear for my safety if I had reasonable doubt & voted to acquit.
I'm glad I don't have to decide.

Did you watch the full video?

I watched the entire video when it first came out months ago. including Floyd resisting arrest.
I didn't follow the trial because I expect Floyd to be convicted of something, no matter the merits of the case, due to jury intimidation in that venue.

You meant Chauvin...your assumption, from the video, was that Chauvin was innocent but would be convicted anyway...because the jury would be intimidated? Yikes.

I prefer your analysis on the National Security thread.

Mask slipped years ago.....along with the credibility. I called it a loooong time ago......

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:34 pm
Wrong. I did not assume that Chauvin is innocent. I did not know the details, nor do I still.
It's up to the jury to decide if they have reasonable doubt. I don't know enough to reach a conclusion.
I saw enough to conclude that Floyd was resisting arrest & was extremely difficult to subdue.
You are naive if you think a jury can't be intimidated in a case like this.
Even the Judge tacitly admitted it when he remarked about the possibility of an appeal based on Water's influence.

I think you and others missed some of the court testimony re the arrest and its consequences. For example, the store cashier was asked, "did the deceased know he used counterfeit money?" The reply was he did not ask. If he did not know then why have him arrested? The cashier admitted that he blundered that one. As I have mentioned previously, using a counterfeit bill is not grounds for arresting since we have had a spate of bills floating in the Twin Cities for the past 20 years due to organized crime creating and floating them. Further, counterfeiting is a federal, not state, crime. In order for someone to be arrested in Minnesota for counterfeiting, the culprit must be using it knowingly. The cops did not establish at any time that George Floyd knowingly was passing a counterfeit bill. Remember that Chauvin did not testify nor did any other cop testify or allege that he knowingly did so - or at least, that was what was reported on local tv. On that basis it was an unwarranted arrest.

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:34 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:20 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:16 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:51 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:31 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:43 pm The jury will convict. They don't want their city torched. Mad Maxine has spoken.

The jurors don't want to be doxxed then targeted. The mob will rule.
They just saw the home of a defense witness attacked.

You make it sound like (but I'm not going to assume) the only reason Chauvin would be convicted would be because of fear of the mob, not that he's a bad cop who killed a man and was caught on camera doing so.

Tell us straight, Salty, do you think Chauvin is guilty or not?

I didn't watch enough of the trial to have an opinion.
I'd need to hear all the evidence & study the elements of each crime charged.
I know that if I were on the jury, I'd fear for my safety if I had reasonable doubt & voted to acquit.
I'm glad I don't have to decide.

Did you watch the full video?

I watched the entire video when it first came out months ago. including Floyd resisting arrest.
I didn't follow the trial because I expect Floyd to be convicted of something, no matter the merits of the case, due to jury intimidation in that venue.

You meant Chauvin...your assumption, from the video, was that Chauvin was innocent but would be convicted anyway...because the jury would be intimidated? Yikes.

I prefer your analysis on the National Security thread.

Wrong. I did not assume that Chauvin is innocent. I did not know the details, nor do I still.
It's up to the jury to decide if they have reasonable doubt. I don't know enough to reach a conclusion.
I saw enough to conclude that Floyd was resisting arrest & was extremely difficult to subdue.
You are naive if you think a jury can't be intimidated in a case like this.
Even the Judge tacitly admitted it when he remarked about the possibility of an appeal based on Water's influence.

No, not naive, I can certainly imagine a jury could be intimidated, but "historically", to quote the SNL skit, it's that they're scared of the police and they're scared of the Klan etc. Do I find it more likely they'd be scared by the radical left wing mob? No.

That said, I DO think that if I was the jury I'd be concerned about making sure I sent a clear message that the police can't get away with virtually anything, regardless of the evidence on tape...and it definitely would matter to me that the public is quite fed up with such. On the other hand, no I would not be intimidated if I saw clear reason to not convict for these charges...for instance, had they charged Murder 1, I can imagine finding reasonable doubt as to intent...extremely hard to prove what is in someone's mind...though I think it actually is pretty clear from the tape and testimony that Chauvin knew that Floyd had stopped breathing, had no pulse, yet continued the pressure...at that point and onward intent to kill was even established to my mind. But the charges they filed don't require that intent. I'd have zero difficulty convicting on all three charges. It's really not a close call.

Nah, the Judge is PO'd at Waters, rightfully so, and he did say that the defense might well file an appeal on that basis, but it was also quite clear, more than clear, that he thought it would fail on appeal.

Brooklyn wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:46 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:34 pm
Wrong. I did not assume that Chauvin is innocent. I did not know the details, nor do I still.
It's up to the jury to decide if they have reasonable doubt. I don't know enough to reach a conclusion.
I saw enough to conclude that Floyd was resisting arrest & was extremely difficult to subdue.
You are naive if you think a jury can't be intimidated in a case like this.
Even the Judge tacitly admitted it when he remarked about the possibility of an appeal based on Water's influence.

I think you and others missed some of the court testimony re the arrest and its consequences. For example, the store cashier was asked, "did the deceased know he used counterfeit money?" The reply was he did not ask. If he did not know then why have him arrested? The cashier admitted that he blundered that one. As I have mentioned previously, using a counterfeit bill is not grounds for arresting since we have had a spate of bills floating in the Twin Cities for the past 20 years due to organized crime creating and floating them. Further, counterfeiting is a federal, not state, crime. In order for someone to be arrested in Minnesota for counterfeiting, the culprit must be using it knowingly. The cops did not establish at any time that George Floyd knowingly was passing a counterfeit bill. Remember that Chauvin did not testify nor did any other cop testify or allege that he knowingly did so - or at least, that was what was reported on local tv. On that basis it was an unwarranted arrest.

Did Chauvin decide to arrest Floyd or was he called in to assist in an arrest that was already underway ?

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:49 pm Did Chauvin decide to arrest Floyd or was he called in to assist in an arrest that was already underway ?

In light of you just read, that is inconsequential.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:49 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:34 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:20 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:16 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:04 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:51 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:31 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:43 pm The jury will convict. They don't want their city torched. Mad Maxine has spoken.

The jurors don't want to be doxxed then targeted. The mob will rule.
They just saw the home of a defense witness attacked.

You make it sound like (but I'm not going to assume) the only reason Chauvin would be convicted would be because of fear of the mob, not that he's a bad cop who killed a man and was caught on camera doing so.

Tell us straight, Salty, do you think Chauvin is guilty or not?

I didn't watch enough of the trial to have an opinion.
I'd need to hear all the evidence & study the elements of each crime charged.
I know that if I were on the jury, I'd fear for my safety if I had reasonable doubt & voted to acquit.
I'm glad I don't have to decide.

Did you watch the full video?

I watched the entire video when it first came out months ago. including Floyd resisting arrest.
I didn't follow the trial because I expect Floyd to be convicted of something, no matter the merits of the case, due to jury intimidation in that venue.

You meant Chauvin...your assumption, from the video, was that Chauvin was innocent but would be convicted anyway...because the jury would be intimidated? Yikes.

I prefer your analysis on the National Security thread.

Wrong. I did not assume that Chauvin is innocent. I did not know the details, nor do I still.
It's up to the jury to decide if they have reasonable doubt. I don't know enough to reach a conclusion.
I saw enough to conclude that Floyd was resisting arrest & was extremely difficult to subdue.
You are naive if you think a jury can't be intimidated in a case like this.
Even the Judge tacitly admitted it when he remarked about the possibility of an appeal based on Water's influence.

No, not naive, I can certainly imagine a jury could be intimidated, but "historically", to quote the SNL skit, it's that they're scared of the police and they're scared of the Klan etc. Do I find it more likely they'd be scared by the radical left wing mob? No.

That was before social media & doxxing. The mob already showed up at the home of a witness for the defense.