LaxPower Back-Up Stick

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm You wonder why they buy Trumps schtick? The very same reason why a bunch of brain damaged FLP folks are singing the praises of the Green New Steal. Tell me a Fan with your knack for candor... you have no problem spending 35 trillion dollars with no gameplan as to how the money will be spent or what the end game is?

Of course I do!

He keeps thinking you're a liberal.
Makes the same mistake with me too.

Nah, he doesn't "hate" liberals...they're just "brain damaged".

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:16 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:52 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:27 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:41 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:59 pm Yes, but some of the resentment and hate of 'others' is there as well, most notably Muslims, immigrants, African Americans, and this underlying anger at feminist women, coupled with transphobia. That resentment and even hate seem to be what unites the 'hard-right' these days.

this is not what I see in the Trump supporters I know. I do come across some folks that are pretty racist in their outlook - but not many.

I have never met a Trump supporter that was an overt racist. And I'm met dozens. Not racists. But they all have the same thread: they buy Trump's schtick.

They think he's "different", and is actually doing what he claims he's doing. They think government is smaller, spending is down, the deficit is shrinking, immigration is fixed, Iran is fixed, swamp is drained, N Korea is fixed, and on and on. And if you point out that nope, he's done precisely none of those things, they ALWAYS come back with "at least he's trying". Which is just the dumbest answer you can give. Because, obviously so was Obama. And Bush. And Clinton. And.....

HooDat wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:41 pm The worst I would say about the vast majority of Trump types that I encounter is that they are tired of being called haters.

Snowflakes need a huggy, and don't like being called names? Ironic, isn't it?

I would agree that most folks I know who supported and still support Trump are not overt racists. But then again, I don't hang out with overt racists.

My friends and family are genuinely well meaning people who believe they would treat any person they meet as an individual, judging them for who they are, not their religion, race, gender etc. That's at least what they believe they would do, and in practice they actually do at least some of the time.

And they usually don't use explicitly bigoted language.

But, in less guarded moments, bigotry does bubble out. Alcohol loosens some tongues, social media others. Sometimes it's just a heated discussion.

They definitely are Islamaphobic...high degree of this. Exact same folks have in earlier decades said anti-semitic tropes. They make comments about "African American culture" and "it's their own fault" and had previously said things about African Americans not being "as smart" as whites. Have always been angry about affirmative action. I see the same sort of gender phobia.

HooDat, to an extent I think you're right about folks like this being 'tired' of being called 'haters'. They are affirmed in this resentment by the right wing media, and embrace a jerk like Trump who plays up these resentments loudly. They leap to each edge issue and whine about how the liberals are going 'too far'.

They do resent libs for requiring them to watch how they say things, to be 'politically correct' in their language. IE don't say bigoted things, instead actually be aware of how one's words offend others. How horrible!

There's a deep strain of bigotry in America, and to deny that reality is truly ostrich behavior.

a fan, Yes, these folks do buy into Trump's shtick, despite their lying eyes. Despite that the policies are often quite the opposite of their supposedly strongly held beliefs about deficits, trade, etc.

So, I ask 'why'? Is it that Trump himself is so charismatic?
Or is it because he's tapped into that bigotry?
I think it's that underlying bigotry.
He gives it voice...and they say we like that's he's not 'politically correct'.

Perhaps your family & social circle are not a representative sampling.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm You wonder why they buy Trumps schtick? The very same reason why a bunch of brain damaged FLP folks are singing the praises of the Green New Steal. Tell me a Fan with your knack for candor... you have no problem spending 35 trillion dollars with no gameplan as to how the money will be spent or what the end game is?

Of course I do!

He keeps thinking you're a liberal.
Makes the same mistake with me too.

Nah, he doesn't "hate" liberals...they're just "brain damaged".

Your even farther away from any salvation MD. Being a self avowed Republican you as already know that. I admit the brain damaged tone is too harsh for your gentle nature. Misguided friends is much nicerer.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm You wonder why they buy Trumps schtick? The very same reason why a bunch of brain damaged FLP folks are singing the praises of the Green New Steal. Tell me a Fan with your knack for candor... you have no problem spending 35 trillion dollars with no gameplan as to how the money will be spent or what the end game is?

Of course I do!

He keeps thinking you're a liberal.
Makes the same mistake with me too.

Nah, he doesn't "hate" liberals...they're just "brain damaged".

Your even farther away from any salvation MD. Being a self avowed Republican you as already know that. I admit the brain damaged tone is too harsh for your gentle nature. Misguided friends is much nicerer.

Indeed 'misguided' is a gentler way of saying you disagree with them... and 'nicerer'.

Pretty sure I won't look to Trump or Trumpist approval as my 'salvation' though.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm You wonder why they buy Trumps schtick? The very same reason why a bunch of brain damaged FLP folks are singing the praises of the Green New Steal. Tell me a Fan with your knack for candor... you have no problem spending 35 trillion dollars with no gameplan as to how the money will be spent or what the end game is?

Of course I do!

He keeps thinking you're a liberal.
Makes the same mistake with me too.

Nah, he doesn't "hate" liberals...they're just "brain damaged".

Your even farther away from any salvation MD. Being a self avowed Republican you as already know that. I admit the brain damaged tone is too harsh for your gentle nature. Misguided friends is much nicerer.

Indeed 'misguided' is a gentler way of saying you disagree with them... and 'nicerer'.

Pretty sure I won't look to Trump or Trumpist approval as my 'salvation' though.

For the record MD... I dont hate liberals. I do believe there is a dangerous more misguided group of them I always refer to as FLP... far left progressives. My argument about their misguided nature becomes harder to defend with the present group of misguided Republicans who have blown up the country's debt with no consideration of what their core values are suppose to be.

I believe there is a good chance these FLP folks that I dont trust will be running the country in 2 years. I hope that if that happens i will grudgingly give them their chance. I still dont trust them... the green new deal thing is a huge crapshoot that I dont believe the country can afford. Elections have consequences... good and bad.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:22 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm You wonder why they buy Trumps schtick? The very same reason why a bunch of brain damaged FLP folks are singing the praises of the Green New Steal. Tell me a Fan with your knack for candor... you have no problem spending 35 trillion dollars with no gameplan as to how the money will be spent or what the end game is?

Of course I do!

He keeps thinking you're a liberal.
Makes the same mistake with me too.

Nah, he doesn't "hate" liberals...they're just "brain damaged".

Your even farther away from any salvation MD. Being a self avowed Republican you as already know that. I admit the brain damaged tone is too harsh for your gentle nature. Misguided friends is much nicerer.

Indeed 'misguided' is a gentler way of saying you disagree with them... and 'nicerer'.

Pretty sure I won't look to Trump or Trumpist approval as my 'salvation' though.

For the record MD... I dont hate liberals. I do believe there is a dangerous more misguided group of them I always refer to as FLP... far left progressives. My argument about their misguided nature becomes harder to defend with the present group of misguided Republicans who have blown up the country's debt with no consideration of what their core values are suppose to be.

I believe there is a good chance these FLP folks that I dont trust will be running the country in 2 years. I hope that if that happens i will grudgingly give them their chance. I still dont trust them... the green new deal thing is a huge crapshoot that I dont believe the country can afford. Elections have consequences... good and bad.

What is pretty certain is that there are no, or very very few, Far Left Progressives hanging around a lacrosse board. Come up with another descriptor, if people here are the object of your criticism or observations.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:29 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:22 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm You wonder why they buy Trumps schtick? The very same reason why a bunch of brain damaged FLP folks are singing the praises of the Green New Steal. Tell me a Fan with your knack for candor... you have no problem spending 35 trillion dollars with no gameplan as to how the money will be spent or what the end game is?

Of course I do!

He keeps thinking you're a liberal.
Makes the same mistake with me too.

Nah, he doesn't "hate" liberals...they're just "brain damaged".

Your even farther away from any salvation MD. Being a self avowed Republican you as already know that. I admit the brain damaged tone is too harsh for your gentle nature. Misguided friends is much nicerer.

Indeed 'misguided' is a gentler way of saying you disagree with them... and 'nicerer'.

Pretty sure I won't look to Trump or Trumpist approval as my 'salvation' though.

For the record MD... I dont hate liberals. I do believe there is a dangerous more misguided group of them I always refer to as FLP... far left progressives. My argument about their misguided nature becomes harder to defend with the present group of misguided Republicans who have blown up the country's debt with no consideration of what their core values are suppose to be.

I believe there is a good chance these FLP folks that I dont trust will be running the country in 2 years. I hope that if that happens i will grudgingly give them their chance. I still dont trust them... the green new deal thing is a huge crapshoot that I dont believe the country can afford. Elections have consequences... good and bad.

What is pretty certain is that there are no, or very very few, Far Left Progressives hanging around a lacrosse board. Come up with another descriptor, if people here are the object of your criticism or observations.

I have been called out here on many occasions for being a far right nut job. I dont know if I have ever accused any one here as an FLP wingnuts. If this clears it up for you the more you believe the US government is the solution to our nation's problem... well then you might be an FLP wingnuts. If I have offended your sensitivities I do apologize. For the record... there is nothing wrong with being a FLP wingnut. There are a few posters here that wear the badge proudly. I disagree with them but I salute their beliefs. If in 2020 these FLP folks make their case and get their chance to run this country... I hope they do a better job than the Republicans did when they were steering the ship. [

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:42 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:29 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:22 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm You wonder why they buy Trumps schtick? The very same reason why a bunch of brain damaged FLP folks are singing the praises of the Green New Steal. Tell me a Fan with your knack for candor... you have no problem spending 35 trillion dollars with no gameplan as to how the money will be spent or what the end game is?

Of course I do!

He keeps thinking you're a liberal.
Makes the same mistake with me too.

Nah, he doesn't "hate" liberals...they're just "brain damaged".

Your even farther away from any salvation MD. Being a self avowed Republican you as already know that. I admit the brain damaged tone is too harsh for your gentle nature. Misguided friends is much nicerer.

Indeed 'misguided' is a gentler way of saying you disagree with them... and 'nicerer'.

Pretty sure I won't look to Trump or Trumpist approval as my 'salvation' though.

For the record MD... I dont hate liberals. I do believe there is a dangerous more misguided group of them I always refer to as FLP... far left progressives. My argument about their misguided nature becomes harder to defend with the present group of misguided Republicans who have blown up the country's debt with no consideration of what their core values are suppose to be.

I believe there is a good chance these FLP folks that I dont trust will be running the country in 2 years. I hope that if that happens i will grudgingly give them their chance. I still dont trust them... the green new deal thing is a huge crapshoot that I dont believe the country can afford. Elections have consequences... good and bad.

What is pretty certain is that there are no, or very very few, Far Left Progressives hanging around a lacrosse board. Come up with another descriptor, if people here are the object of your criticism or observations.

I have been called out here on many occasions for being a far right nut job. I dont know if I have ever accused any one here as an FLP wingnuts. If this clears it up for you the more you believe the US government is the solution to our nation's problem... well then you might be an FLP wingnuts. If I have offended your sensitivities I do apologize. For the record... there is nothing wrong with being a FLP wingnut. There are a few posters here that wear the badge proudly. I disagree with them but I salute their beliefs. If in 2020 these FLP folks make their casand get their chance to run this country... I hope they do a better job than the Republicans did when they were steering the ship. [

It’s not offensive to me.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm You wonder why they buy Trumps schtick? The very same reason why a bunch of brain damaged FLP folks are singing the praises of the Green New Steal. Tell me a Fan with your knack for candor... you have no problem spending 35 trillion dollars with no gameplan as to how the money will be spent or what the end game is?

Of course I do!

He keeps thinking you're a liberal.
Makes the same mistake with me too.

Nah, he doesn't "hate" liberals...they're just "brain damaged".

Your even farther away from any salvation MD. Being a self avowed Republican you as already know that. I admit the brain damaged tone is too harsh for your gentle nature. Misguided friends is much nicerer.

Indeed 'misguided' is a gentler way of saying you disagree with them... and 'nicerer'.

Pretty sure I won't look to Trump or Trumpist approval as my 'salvation' though.

For the record MD... I dont hate liberals. I do believe there is a dangerous more misguided group of them I always refer to as FLP... far left progressives. My argument about their misguided nature becomes harder to defend with the present group of misguided Republicans who have blown up the country's debt with no consideration of what their core values are suppose to be.

I believe there is a good chance these FLP folks that I dont trust will be running the country in 2 years. I hope that if that happens i will grudgingly give them their chance. I still dont trust them... the green new deal thing is a huge crapshoot that I dont believe the country can afford. Elections have consequences... good and bad.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:35 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm You wonder why they buy Trumps schtick? The very same reason why a bunch of brain damaged FLP folks are singing the praises of the Green New Steal. Tell me a Fan with your knack for candor... you have no problem spending 35 trillion dollars with no gameplan as to how the money will be spent or what the end game is?

Of course I do!

He keeps thinking you're a liberal.
Makes the same mistake with me too.

Nah, he doesn't "hate" liberals...they're just "brain damaged".

Your even farther away from any salvation MD. Being a self avowed Republican you as already know that. I admit the brain damaged tone is too harsh for your gentle nature. Misguided friends is much nicerer.

Indeed 'misguided' is a gentler way of saying you disagree with them... and 'nicerer'.

Pretty sure I won't look to Trump or Trumpist approval as my 'salvation' though.

For the record MD... I dont hate liberals. I do believe there is a dangerous more misguided group of them I always refer to as FLP... far left progressives. My argument about their misguided nature becomes harder to defend with the present group of misguided Republicans who have blown up the country's debt with no consideration of what their core values are suppose to be.

I believe there is a good chance these FLP folks that I dont trust will be running the country in 2 years. I hope that if that happens i will grudgingly give them their chance. I still dont trust them... the green new deal thing is a huge crapshoot that I dont believe the country can afford. Elections have consequences... good and bad.

That seems entirely fair to me, cradle.

I don't particularly 'trust' the far left to make sound decisions either, as ideology has a way of clouding judgment. But there's a big difference between being concerned about ideologically driven overreach and the IMO obscene behaviors of the far right. And I also agree that the obsequious conformity of the GOP pols to Trumpism totally betrays any former pretensions of fiscal conservatism.

On the green new deal, in concept and directionally, I support it. Amy Klobuchar has a pretty good take on it, as do a number of the other more moderate Dems. I suspect those views will be the dominant ones in the event that the Dems actually win the Senate as well as Presidency. And if they don't win the Senate, whatever policies get put in place will be inevitably more moderate than those of the furthest left proponents.

If so, a focus on investment in infrastructure that is supportive of green new deal objectives will actually be a good thing. Much as were highways under Eisenhower. Indeed, I suspect that infrastructure spending will be the Dems primary fiscal policy albeit with some clearly 'progressive' stuff on the margin.

But what I am concerned with would be a huge pendulum swing coupled with an authoritarianism of the left.

That's what I think is the most dangerous aspect of Trumpism, the hyper-partisan acceptance of the authoritarian 'strong man'.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:35 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm You wonder why they buy Trumps schtick? The very same reason why a bunch of brain damaged FLP folks are singing the praises of the Green New Steal. Tell me a Fan with your knack for candor... you have no problem spending 35 trillion dollars with no gameplan as to how the money will be spent or what the end game is?

Of course I do!

He keeps thinking you're a liberal.
Makes the same mistake with me too.

Nah, he doesn't "hate" liberals...they're just "brain damaged".

Your even farther away from any salvation MD. Being a self avowed Republican you as already know that. I admit the brain damaged tone is too harsh for your gentle nature. Misguided friends is much nicerer.

Indeed 'misguided' is a gentler way of saying you disagree with them... and 'nicerer'.

Pretty sure I won't look to Trump or Trumpist approval as my 'salvation' though.

For the record MD... I dont hate liberals. I do believe there is a dangerous more misguided group of them I always refer to as FLP... far left progressives. My argument about their misguided nature becomes harder to defend with the present group of misguided Republicans who have blown up the country's debt with no consideration of what their core values are suppose to be.

I believe there is a good chance these FLP folks that I dont trust will be running the country in 2 years. I hope that if that happens i will grudgingly give them their chance. I still dont trust them... the green new deal thing is a huge crapshoot that I dont believe the country can afford. Elections have consequences... good and bad.

That seems entirely fair to me, cradle.

I don't particularly 'trust' the far left to make sound decisions either, as ideology has a way of clouding judgment. But there's a big difference between being concerned about ideologically driven overreach and the IMO obscene behaviors of the far right. And I also agree that the obsequious conformity of the GOP pols to Trumpism totally betrays any former pretensions of fiscal conservatism.

On the green new deal, in concept and directionally, I support it. Amy Klobuchar has a pretty good take on it, as do a number of the other more moderate Dems. I suspect those views will be the dominant ones in the event that the Dems actually win the Senate as well as Presidency. And if they don't win the Senate, whatever policies get put in place will be inevitably more moderate than those of the furthest left proponents.

If so, a focus on investment in infrastructure that is supportive of green new deal objectives will actually be a good thing. Much as were highways under Eisenhower. Indeed, I suspect that infrastructure spending will be the Dems primary fiscal policy albeit with some clearly 'progressive' stuff on the margin.

But what I am concerned with would be a huge pendulum swing coupled with an authoritarianism of the left.

That's what I think is the most dangerous aspect of Trumpism, the hyper-partisan acceptance of the authoritarian 'strong man'.

A bit of a tangent MD but imo relevant to the new infrastructure you speak. There are a number of locations where I live here in upstate where large numbers of solar panel arrays and wind turbines have been built. This is just my observation but one thing renewable energy offers us is some of the most god awful ugly structures I have ever seen. In the name of progress acres of green fields are transformed into rows and rows of depressing slate gray glass panels doing their thing and destroying the landscape in the process. Even more revolting are those gigantic overgrown windmills standing 100s of feet in the air whoomping away with the annoying sounds of their propellers going non stop. I guess that progress for us.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:35 am I suspect that infrastructure spending will be the Dems primary fiscal policy albeit with some clearly 'progressive' stuff on the margin.

foreverlax wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:22 am f windmills in Europe, along with solar panel fields here and abroad...they are no worse then power line or cell towers. I find they "blend" in to the landscape....overtime.

HooDat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:16 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:35 am I suspect that infrastructure spending will be the Dems primary fiscal policy albeit with some clearly 'progressive' stuff on the margin.

I did not see Obama do anything close to this. What makes you think a Dem will do anything other than kiss Wall Street's rear end like they have since Bill?

foreverlax wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:22 am f windmills in Europe, along with solar panel fields here and abroad...they are no worse then power line or cell towers. I find they "blend" in to the landscape....overtime.

you mean like this?

windfarm.jpg

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:35 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm You wonder why they buy Trumps schtick? The very same reason why a bunch of brain damaged FLP folks are singing the praises of the Green New Steal. Tell me a Fan with your knack for candor... you have no problem spending 35 trillion dollars with no gameplan as to how the money will be spent or what the end game is?

Of course I do!

He keeps thinking you're a liberal.
Makes the same mistake with me too.

Nah, he doesn't "hate" liberals...they're just "brain damaged".

Your even farther away from any salvation MD. Being a self avowed Republican you as already know that. I admit the brain damaged tone is too harsh for your gentle nature. Misguided friends is much nicerer.

Indeed 'misguided' is a gentler way of saying you disagree with them... and 'nicerer'.

Pretty sure I won't look to Trump or Trumpist approval as my 'salvation' though.

For the record MD... I dont hate liberals. I do believe there is a dangerous more misguided group of them I always refer to as FLP... far left progressives. My argument about their misguided nature becomes harder to defend with the present group of misguided Republicans who have blown up the country's debt with no consideration of what their core values are suppose to be.

I believe there is a good chance these FLP folks that I dont trust will be running the country in 2 years. I hope that if that happens i will grudgingly give them their chance. I still dont trust them... the green new deal thing is a huge crapshoot that I dont believe the country can afford. Elections have consequences... good and bad.

That seems entirely fair to me, cradle.

I don't particularly 'trust' the far left to make sound decisions either, as ideology has a way of clouding judgment. But there's a big difference between being concerned about ideologically driven overreach and the IMO obscene behaviors of the far right. And I also agree that the obsequious conformity of the GOP pols to Trumpism totally betrays any former pretensions of fiscal conservatism.

On the green new deal, in concept and directionally, I support it. Amy Klobuchar has a pretty good take on it, as do a number of the other more moderate Dems. I suspect those views will be the dominant ones in the event that the Dems actually win the Senate as well as Presidency. And if they don't win the Senate, whatever policies get put in place will be inevitably more moderate than those of the furthest left proponents.

If so, a focus on investment in infrastructure that is supportive of green new deal objectives will actually be a good thing. Much as were highways under Eisenhower. Indeed, I suspect that infrastructure spending will be the Dems primary fiscal policy albeit with some clearly 'progressive' stuff on the margin.

But what I am concerned with would be a huge pendulum swing coupled with an authoritarianism of the left.

That's what I think is the most dangerous aspect of Trumpism, the hyper-partisan acceptance of the authoritarian 'strong man'.

A bit of a tangent MD but imo relevant to the new infrastructure you speak. There are a number of locations where I live here in upstate where large numbers of solar panel arrays and wind turbines have been built. This is just my observation but one thing renewable energy offers us is some of the most god awful ugly structures I have ever seen. In the name of progress acres of green fields are transformed into rows and rows of depressing slate gray glass panels doing their thing and destroying the landscape in the process. Even more revolting are those gigantic overgrown windmills standing 100s of feet in the air whoomping away with the annoying sounds of their propellers going non stop. I guess that progress for us.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:52 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:35 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm You wonder why they buy Trumps schtick? The very same reason why a bunch of brain damaged FLP folks are singing the praises of the Green New Steal. Tell me a Fan with your knack for candor... you have no problem spending 35 trillion dollars with no gameplan as to how the money will be spent or what the end game is?

Of course I do!

He keeps thinking you're a liberal.
Makes the same mistake with me too.

Nah, he doesn't "hate" liberals...they're just "brain damaged".

Your even farther away from any salvation MD. Being a self avowed Republican you as already know that. I admit the brain damaged tone is too harsh for your gentle nature. Misguided friends is much nicerer.

Indeed 'misguided' is a gentler way of saying you disagree with them... and 'nicerer'.

Pretty sure I won't look to Trump or Trumpist approval as my 'salvation' though.

For the record MD... I dont hate liberals. I do believe there is a dangerous more misguided group of them I always refer to as FLP... far left progressives. My argument about their misguided nature becomes harder to defend with the present group of misguided Republicans who have blown up the country's debt with no consideration of what their core values are suppose to be.

I believe there is a good chance these FLP folks that I dont trust will be running the country in 2 years. I hope that if that happens i will grudgingly give them their chance. I still dont trust them... the green new deal thing is a huge crapshoot that I dont believe the country can afford. Elections have consequences... good and bad.

That seems entirely fair to me, cradle.

I don't particularly 'trust' the far left to make sound decisions either, as ideology has a way of clouding judgment. But there's a big difference between being concerned about ideologically driven overreach and the IMO obscene behaviors of the far right. And I also agree that the obsequious conformity of the GOP pols to Trumpism totally betrays any former pretensions of fiscal conservatism.

On the green new deal, in concept and directionally, I support it. Amy Klobuchar has a pretty good take on it, as do a number of the other more moderate Dems. I suspect those views will be the dominant ones in the event that the Dems actually win the Senate as well as Presidency. And if they don't win the Senate, whatever policies get put in place will be inevitably more moderate than those of the furthest left proponents.

If so, a focus on investment in infrastructure that is supportive of green new deal objectives will actually be a good thing. Much as were highways under Eisenhower. Indeed, I suspect that infrastructure spending will be the Dems primary fiscal policy albeit with some clearly 'progressive' stuff on the margin.

But what I am concerned with would be a huge pendulum swing coupled with an authoritarianism of the left.

That's what I think is the most dangerous aspect of Trumpism, the hyper-partisan acceptance of the authoritarian 'strong man'.

A bit of a tangent MD but imo relevant to the new infrastructure you speak. There are a number of locations where I live here in upstate where large numbers of solar panel arrays and wind turbines have been built. This is just my observation but one thing renewable energy offers us is some of the most god awful ugly structures I have ever seen. In the name of progress acres of green fields are transformed into rows and rows of depressing slate gray glass panels doing their thing and destroying the landscape in the process. Even more revolting are those gigantic overgrown windmills standing 100s of feet in the air whoomping away with the annoying sounds of their propellers going non stop. I guess that progress for us.

I agree with you and HooDat that we should be sure to preserve as much landscape as we can. So, I'm in favor of converting most rooftops over time into solar arrays. The infrastructure I was referring to include national electrical grid capable of most vast quantities of electricity from remote areas (ie desert) to population centers with a minimal loss of power at switching. This is possible, but requires a national will to do so. I'd also incentivize a national grid of auto and truck power stations such that these are ubiquitous. Start with trucks, buses, etc, but get it to auto asap. I'd be building high speed, interconnected, electric rail systems (again, this requires national will including stopping whining about the system not making money).

In urban cores I'd be building electric mass transit, building new school buildings, reclaiming crumbling housing into parks, etc.

These are all actual 'investments' not merely 'expenditures'.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:38 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:52 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:35 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:28 am

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 pm You wonder why they buy Trumps schtick? The very same reason why a bunch of brain damaged FLP folks are singing the praises of the Green New Steal. Tell me a Fan with your knack for candor... you have no problem spending 35 trillion dollars with no gameplan as to how the money will be spent or what the end game is?

Of course I do!

He keeps thinking you're a liberal.
Makes the same mistake with me too.

Nah, he doesn't "hate" liberals...they're just "brain damaged".

Your even farther away from any salvation MD. Being a self avowed Republican you as already know that. I admit the brain damaged tone is too harsh for your gentle nature. Misguided friends is much nicerer.

Indeed 'misguided' is a gentler way of saying you disagree with them... and 'nicerer'.

Pretty sure I won't look to Trump or Trumpist approval as my 'salvation' though.

For the record MD... I dont hate liberals. I do believe there is a dangerous more misguided group of them I always refer to as FLP... far left progressives. My argument about their misguided nature becomes harder to defend with the present group of misguided Republicans who have blown up the country's debt with no consideration of what their core values are suppose to be.

I believe there is a good chance these FLP folks that I dont trust will be running the country in 2 years. I hope that if that happens i will grudgingly give them their chance. I still dont trust them... the green new deal thing is a huge crapshoot that I dont believe the country can afford. Elections have consequences... good and bad.

That seems entirely fair to me, cradle.

I don't particularly 'trust' the far left to make sound decisions either, as ideology has a way of clouding judgment. But there's a big difference between being concerned about ideologically driven overreach and the IMO obscene behaviors of the far right. And I also agree that the obsequious conformity of the GOP pols to Trumpism totally betrays any former pretensions of fiscal conservatism.

On the green new deal, in concept and directionally, I support it. Amy Klobuchar has a pretty good take on it, as do a number of the other more moderate Dems. I suspect those views will be the dominant ones in the event that the Dems actually win the Senate as well as Presidency. And if they don't win the Senate, whatever policies get put in place will be inevitably more moderate than those of the furthest left proponents.

If so, a focus on investment in infrastructure that is supportive of green new deal objectives will actually be a good thing. Much as were highways under Eisenhower. Indeed, I suspect that infrastructure spending will be the Dems primary fiscal policy albeit with some clearly 'progressive' stuff on the margin.

But what I am concerned with would be a huge pendulum swing coupled with an authoritarianism of the left.

That's what I think is the most dangerous aspect of Trumpism, the hyper-partisan acceptance of the authoritarian 'strong man'.

A bit of a tangent MD but imo relevant to the new infrastructure you speak. There are a number of locations where I live here in upstate where large numbers of solar panel arrays and wind turbines have been built. This is just my observation but one thing renewable energy offers us is some of the most god awful ugly structures I have ever seen. In the name of progress acres of green fields are transformed into rows and rows of depressing slate gray glass panels doing their thing and destroying the landscape in the process. Even more revolting are those gigantic overgrown windmills standing 100s of feet in the air whoomping away with the annoying sounds of their propellers going non stop. I guess that progress for us.

I agree with you and HooDat that we should be sure to preserve as much landscape as we can. So, I'm in favor of converting most rooftops over time into solar arrays. The infrastructure I was referring to include national electrical grid capable of most vast quantities of electricity from remote areas (ie desert) to population centers with a minimal loss of power at switching. This is possible, but requires a national will to do so. I'd also incentivize a national grid of auto and truck power stations such that these are ubiquitous. Start with trucks, buses, etc, but get it to auto asap. I'd be building high speed, interconnected, electric rail systems (again, this requires national will including stopping whining about the system not making money).

In urban cores I'd be building electric mass transit, building new school buildings, reclaiming crumbling housing into parks, etc.

These are all actual 'investments' not merely 'expenditures'.

I have no problems with rooftop solar panels. My son has them on his house in Philly. There are several locations where I live where 5 to 10 acre fields of greenery have been plowed under to create row after row of these panels that are an abomination to their surroundings. The good news is, depending on your perspective, many of our local towns are refusing to allow these structure to be built in their towns. They have seen how they look and have come to the understanding that I agree with 100%... they are too dog gone ugly to allow them to be built. IMO that is the trade off for renewable energy. it comes with a price many people don't realize or understand until they have been built. Until you have driven past 10 acres of these ugly dull gray panels you can't comprehend the tradeoff between renewable energy and a horrific scar on the landscape. I have noticed the bird population has voiced their opinion by the droppings that they leave behind on them to bake in the sun.