Page 480 of 1864
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:37 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 9:20 pm
JHU contradicting Fauci? Ask yourself why.
Use your intellect......sport, I know guys that will do $10MM in N95 masks at a minimum. In 2021. Not the mask but the filtration membrane that gives N95 it’s designation. Read the guidance on how the decision to recommend masks has evolved. The reality is, unless you are wearing an N95 mask or a Hepa filter, you can still catch the virus. Adding in the guidance of wearing a mask is another layer of raising awareness and an attempt to reinforce the fact that this virus is deadly. You can think Fauci is stupid or lying or whatever you whatever tripeworld tells you to think. I am going to rely on my own research and due diligence..Not Bandito on Twitter or Facebook.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:42 pm
by youthathletics
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 9:37 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 9:20 pm
JHU contradicting Fauci? Ask yourself why.
Use your intellect.
So you agree, Fauci needs to shut up and listen to jhu? Agreed.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:47 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 9:42 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 9:37 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 9:20 pm
JHU contradicting Fauci? Ask yourself why.
Use your intellect.
So you agree, Fauci needs to shut up and listen to jhu? Agreed.
He should not listen to Vendetta man. I am wrong again.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 10:51 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 12:09 am
by old salt
Fauci was accurate at the time. Wearing a surgical mask does not protect the wearer, it only protects others.
At that point, they were trying to secure PPE & prevent hoarding of masks, especially N95's.
Fauci's not going to recommend something that might give a false sense of security.
It was the right call. If not a N95, other masks are just virtue signalling, so long as you socially distance.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 12:37 am
by Typical Lax Dad
old salt wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 12:09 am
Fauci was accurate at the time. Wearing a surgical mask does not protect the wearer, it only protects others.
At that point, they were trying to secure PPE & prevent hoarding of masks, especially N95's.
Fauci's not going to recommend something that might give a false sense of security.
It was the right call. If not a N95, other masks are just virtue signalling, so long as you socially distance.
Yes. Really didn’t take much brain power to come up with a logical conclusion..... A hepa filter is your second best bet if you can’t find a N95 or KN95. I have both. I believe YA has a supply of high quality masks.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 6:44 am
by MDlaxfan76
old salt wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 12:09 am
Fauci was accurate at the time. Wearing a surgical mask does not protect the wearer, it only protects others.
At that point, they were trying to secure PPE & prevent hoarding of masks, especially N95's.
Fauci's not going to recommend something that might give a false sense of security.
It was the right call. If not a N95, other masks are just virtue signalling, so long as you socially distance.
Actually, it was the wrong call, but with good intentions and he indeed was accurate about cloth masks not providing the wearer much protection. The benefit is to reduce spread by the wearer, not to protect them sufficiently.
The situation then, and still now, was that there are not enough N95 masks to go around for everyone wanting protection. And they clearly wanted to prioritize access to the limited supply to the most acutely at risk medical folks and then first responders...and there weren't enough for them!
Fauci was in the very awkward position of the political folks being unwilling to nationalize acquisition/production and distribution of N95 masks and other critical supplies, tests, etc.
So, controlling who got those N95's was left to the 'market', meaning highest bidder. Including consumer channels.
The right answer was to nationalize acquisition/production and distribution and to ramp up supply way faster, way earlier.
And, in the meantime, strongly encourage cloth masks for any other activities in order to reduce speed of spread. Make very clear that this is to protect others, not oneself.
Many of us were explaining this very early on, based on the experiences in asian countries which have long adopted these practices. This is very definitely not just 'virtue signaling' as there's simply no way to ensure that one is always sufficiently physically distant, not just from other people but also surfaces where someone else may touch. Wear the mask, reduce the spread. It doesn't eliminate it, but it reduces it.
But Fauci was in a very awkward place, given that the political folks were unwilling.
And they still are.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 8:08 am
by CU88
Interesting how the deplorables will hang everything on one quote from a medical expert and yet ignore thousands of equally wrong statements of o d...
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 8:15 am
by tech37
Dr. Deborah Birx said 'there is nothing from the CDC that I can trust' in a White House coronavirus task force meeting
https://www.businessinsider.com/deborah ... ing-2020-5
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 8:22 am
by kramerica.inc
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 5:23 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 12:14 pm
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 3:54 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 3:34 pm
Kismet wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:24 pm
Today's tweet of the day from actor, George Takei (Lt. Sulu from Starship Enterprise), American-born Japanese American citizen who makes an appropriate point on liberty and freedom having been interned in a camp during World War II
George Takei
@GeorgeTakei
·
16h
"I didn't spend my childhood in barbed wire enclosed internment camps so I could listen to grown adults today cry oppression because they have to wear a mask at Costco."
He has a point, don't ya think?
I wonder if George Takei understands that were it not for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor he never would have been interred anywhere. I mean no disrespect to good ole George but outside of it being a good idea for all of us to wear masks, I could not care less about what George thinks about anything.
Wrong, wrong, WRONG.
I think highly of FDR, but his decision to implement the internment of Japanese Americans was based solely on racism.
Germany and Italy declared war on the United States, and
we didn’t put German or Italian Americans in prison camps.
DocBarrister
Factually wrong, again, Doc. We did put Germans and Italians in camps. And Many others. And it was not at a limited number or based upon any one "reason" like racism. We also moved them further inland away from coasts.
Read
Invisible Gulag.
https://www.si.edu/object/siris_sil_628575
The diverse makeup of Justice Department detainees classified by as "Germans" or "Italians" reveals that other factors trumped ethnicity, residency, and citizenship as grounds for internment. On the U.S. mainland, refugees and naturalized citizens from countries annexed or occupied by Nazi Germany also came under suspicion, resulting in the confinement of Austrians, Czechs, Hungarians, Romanians, and Bulgarians. [17] Those apprehended in the Territory of Hawai'i included a handful of Jewish refugees and people of Danish, Finnish, Irish, and Norwegian descent. Several of Hawai'i's Caucasian detainees had even served in the U.S. Armed Forces. [18] The scope of the American confinement program also extended overseas, with FBI agents compiling lists of allegedly dangerous individuals of German, Italian, and Japanese descent residing throughout Latin America. Pressure from the U.S. State Department resulted in the apprehension and deportation of 4,058 ethnic Germans and 288 ethnic Italians (along with 2,264 people of Japanese ancestry) from nineteen different Latin American countries to the United States for the purposes of prisoner exchanges with Axis nations or continued confinement on the U.S. mainland. [19] The ranks of these detainees included large numbers of Jewish refugees from Nazi-controlled Europe, with 250 Jews detained in the U.S.-administered Panama Canal Zone alone. [20]
Federal authorities concentrated this eclectic and multinational mix of enemy aliens in at least twenty-one different Justice Department and Army camps far removed from coastal areas, typically in facilities that also held Japanese detainees. [21] Population totals were extremely fluid as prisoners were transferred between camps or repatriated to their native countries. The Justice Department's Crystal City site, which served as a family camp, reached a peak population of 3,374 prisoners, including 997 ethnic Germans and six ethnic Italians–many coming from Latin America. [22] 2,150 ethnic Germans—both civilian residents and merchant seamen—passed through the Justice Department camp at Fort Lincoln, making this Bismarck, North Dakota, facility one of the chief confinement sites for German detainees. [23] Other camps featuring significant ethnic German or Italian populations included the aforementioned Ft. Stanton and Ft. Missoula sites, as well as Camp Kenedy , Texas, and Camp Forrest , Tennessee.
Just stop with the nonsense. You’re not actually comparing that to the racist mass internment of Japanese Americans, are you?
DocBarrister
No, READ Doc. This FanLax "character" you've created is very shallow. He's nothing more than a race baiter. And that won't get you far here, where we're trying to talk about things at a little depth. Break the shackles of your mind. There's much more to life than screaming "racism!" at every turn. For hating Trump so much, you are turning into him with your lack of reading, and your shallow, overly-simplistic views on things.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 8:30 am
by MDlaxfan76
Pretty weird, as at least the publicly available count from CDC is way, way behind all the other reporting mechanisms...which are quite transparent about their data sources and their variations.
Perhaps they have an internal reporting mechanism and model that Birx thinks may be overstating #'s and trajectory? This reporting clearly doesn't know where the actual disagreement or concern lies.
What we
do know is that the White House messaging has focused on national #'s with no differentiation between original hotspots on the back ends of their curves and the rest of the country on the upswing.
We would certainly hope that Birx isn't confused about this, but certainly the Task Force and Trump messaging appears to want to be triumphalist rather than accurate and nuanced.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 8:38 am
by MDlaxfan76
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:22 am
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 5:23 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 12:14 pm
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 3:54 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 3:34 pm
Kismet wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:24 pm
Today's tweet of the day from actor, George Takei (Lt. Sulu from Starship Enterprise), American-born Japanese American citizen who makes an appropriate point on liberty and freedom having been interned in a camp during World War II
George Takei
@GeorgeTakei
·
16h
"I didn't spend my childhood in barbed wire enclosed internment camps so I could listen to grown adults today cry oppression because they have to wear a mask at Costco."
He has a point, don't ya think?
I wonder if George Takei understands that were it not for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor he never would have been interred anywhere. I mean no disrespect to good ole George but outside of it being a good idea for all of us to wear masks, I could not care less about what George thinks about anything.
Wrong, wrong, WRONG.
I think highly of FDR, but his decision to implement the internment of Japanese Americans was based solely on racism.
Germany and Italy declared war on the United States, and
we didn’t put German or Italian Americans in prison camps.
DocBarrister
Factually wrong, again, Doc. We did put Germans and Italians in camps. And Many others. And it was not at a limited number or based upon any one "reason" like racism. We also moved them further inland away from coasts.
Read
Invisible Gulag.
https://www.si.edu/object/siris_sil_628575
The diverse makeup of Justice Department detainees classified by as "Germans" or "Italians" reveals that other factors trumped ethnicity, residency, and citizenship as grounds for internment. On the U.S. mainland, refugees and naturalized citizens from countries annexed or occupied by Nazi Germany also came under suspicion, resulting in the confinement of Austrians, Czechs, Hungarians, Romanians, and Bulgarians. [17] Those apprehended in the Territory of Hawai'i included a handful of Jewish refugees and people of Danish, Finnish, Irish, and Norwegian descent. Several of Hawai'i's Caucasian detainees had even served in the U.S. Armed Forces. [18] The scope of the American confinement program also extended overseas, with FBI agents compiling lists of allegedly dangerous individuals of German, Italian, and Japanese descent residing throughout Latin America. Pressure from the U.S. State Department resulted in the apprehension and deportation of 4,058 ethnic Germans and 288 ethnic Italians (along with 2,264 people of Japanese ancestry) from nineteen different Latin American countries to the United States for the purposes of prisoner exchanges with Axis nations or continued confinement on the U.S. mainland. [19] The ranks of these detainees included large numbers of Jewish refugees from Nazi-controlled Europe, with 250 Jews detained in the U.S.-administered Panama Canal Zone alone. [20]
Federal authorities concentrated this eclectic and multinational mix of enemy aliens in at least twenty-one different Justice Department and Army camps far removed from coastal areas, typically in facilities that also held Japanese detainees. [21] Population totals were extremely fluid as prisoners were transferred between camps or repatriated to their native countries. The Justice Department's Crystal City site, which served as a family camp, reached a peak population of 3,374 prisoners, including 997 ethnic Germans and six ethnic Italians–many coming from Latin America. [22] 2,150 ethnic Germans—both civilian residents and merchant seamen—passed through the Justice Department camp at Fort Lincoln, making this Bismarck, North Dakota, facility one of the chief confinement sites for German detainees. [23] Other camps featuring significant ethnic German or Italian populations included the aforementioned Ft. Stanton and Ft. Missoula sites, as well as Camp Kenedy , Texas, and Camp Forrest , Tennessee.
Just stop with the nonsense. You’re not actually comparing that to the racist mass internment of Japanese Americans, are you?
DocBarrister
No, READ Doc. This FanLax "character" you've created is very shallow. He's nothing more than a race baiter. And that won't get you far here, where we're trying to talk about things at a little depth. Break the shackles of your mind. There's much more to life than screaming "racism!" at every turn. For hating Trump so much, you are turning into him with your lack of reading, and your shallow, overly-simplistic views on things.
At the risk of catching mud from both sides, let me try to help.
You aren't suggesting an equivalency between the internment of all Japanese Americans (except those actually serving in the military, but including their families) simply because of their country of origin with the much more selective confinement of others, right?
You were just pointing out that indeed
some Germans and Italians and others, allegedly dangerous, were confined. But not all, not across the board based on country of origin, right?
And, it's quite likely that the confinement of those Germans etc was well beyond any actually dangerous as well.
The Japanese Americans were definitely treated quite differently than were those from European countries, but it's not that no one was treated as dangerous from those countries too.
Do I have that right?
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 8:52 am
by cradleandshoot
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:38 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:22 am
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 5:23 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 12:14 pm
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 3:54 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 3:34 pm
Kismet wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:24 pm
Today's tweet of the day from actor, George Takei (Lt. Sulu from Starship Enterprise), American-born Japanese American citizen who makes an appropriate point on liberty and freedom having been interned in a camp during World War II
George Takei
@GeorgeTakei
·
16h
"I didn't spend my childhood in barbed wire enclosed internment camps so I could listen to grown adults today cry oppression because they have to wear a mask at Costco."
He has a point, don't ya think?
I wonder if George Takei understands that were it not for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor he never would have been interred anywhere. I mean no disrespect to good ole George but outside of it being a good idea for all of us to wear masks, I could not care less about what George thinks about anything.
Wrong, wrong, WRONG.
I think highly of FDR, but his decision to implement the internment of Japanese Americans was based solely on racism.
Germany and Italy declared war on the United States, and
we didn’t put German or Italian Americans in prison camps.
DocBarrister
Factually wrong, again, Doc. We did put Germans and Italians in camps. And Many others. And it was not at a limited number or based upon any one "reason" like racism. We also moved them further inland away from coasts.
Read
Invisible Gulag.
https://www.si.edu/object/siris_sil_628575
The diverse makeup of Justice Department detainees classified by as "Germans" or "Italians" reveals that other factors trumped ethnicity, residency, and citizenship as grounds for internment. On the U.S. mainland, refugees and naturalized citizens from countries annexed or occupied by Nazi Germany also came under suspicion, resulting in the confinement of Austrians, Czechs, Hungarians, Romanians, and Bulgarians. [17] Those apprehended in the Territory of Hawai'i included a handful of Jewish refugees and people of Danish, Finnish, Irish, and Norwegian descent. Several of Hawai'i's Caucasian detainees had even served in the U.S. Armed Forces. [18] The scope of the American confinement program also extended overseas, with FBI agents compiling lists of allegedly dangerous individuals of German, Italian, and Japanese descent residing throughout Latin America. Pressure from the U.S. State Department resulted in the apprehension and deportation of 4,058 ethnic Germans and 288 ethnic Italians (along with 2,264 people of Japanese ancestry) from nineteen different Latin American countries to the United States for the purposes of prisoner exchanges with Axis nations or continued confinement on the U.S. mainland. [19] The ranks of these detainees included large numbers of Jewish refugees from Nazi-controlled Europe, with 250 Jews detained in the U.S.-administered Panama Canal Zone alone. [20]
Federal authorities concentrated this eclectic and multinational mix of enemy aliens in at least twenty-one different Justice Department and Army camps far removed from coastal areas, typically in facilities that also held Japanese detainees. [21] Population totals were extremely fluid as prisoners were transferred between camps or repatriated to their native countries. The Justice Department's Crystal City site, which served as a family camp, reached a peak population of 3,374 prisoners, including 997 ethnic Germans and six ethnic Italians–many coming from Latin America. [22] 2,150 ethnic Germans—both civilian residents and merchant seamen—passed through the Justice Department camp at Fort Lincoln, making this Bismarck, North Dakota, facility one of the chief confinement sites for German detainees. [23] Other camps featuring significant ethnic German or Italian populations included the aforementioned Ft. Stanton and Ft. Missoula sites, as well as Camp Kenedy , Texas, and Camp Forrest , Tennessee.
Just stop with the nonsense. You’re not actually comparing that to the racist mass internment of Japanese Americans, are you?
DocBarrister
No, READ Doc. This FanLax "character" you've created is very shallow. He's nothing more than a race baiter. And that won't get you far here, where we're trying to talk about things at a little depth. Break the shackles of your mind. There's much more to life than screaming "racism!" at every turn. For hating Trump so much, you are turning into him with your lack of reading, and your shallow, overly-simplistic views on things.
At the risk of catching mud from both sides, let me try to help.
You aren't suggesting an equivalency between the internment of all Japanese Americans (except those actually serving in the military, but including their families) simply because of their country of origin with the much more selective confinement of others, right?
You were just pointing out that indeed
some Germans and Italians and others, allegedly dangerous, were confined. But not all, not across the board based on country of origin, right?
And, it's quite likely that the confinement of those Germans etc was well beyond any actually dangerous as well.
The Japanese Americans were definitely treated quite differently than were those from European countries, but it's not that no one was treated as dangerous from those countries too.
Do I have that right?
"The Japanese Americans were definitely treated quite differently than were those from European countries"
I am guessing that Pearl Harbor may have had something to do with why the Japanese were treated differently.
It is easy to pass judgement on the mood of the country almost 80 years later. A lot of Americans were angry and ticked off at all Japanese. It was wrong how we acted but the national mood about all Japanese centered around mistrust and resentment. America saw a similar attitude against all Muslims after 9/11.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 8:57 am
by MDlaxfan76
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:52 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:38 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:22 am
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 5:23 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 12:14 pm
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 3:54 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 3:34 pm
Kismet wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:24 pm
Today's tweet of the day from actor, George Takei (Lt. Sulu from Starship Enterprise), American-born Japanese American citizen who makes an appropriate point on liberty and freedom having been interned in a camp during World War II
George Takei
@GeorgeTakei
·
16h
"I didn't spend my childhood in barbed wire enclosed internment camps so I could listen to grown adults today cry oppression because they have to wear a mask at Costco."
He has a point, don't ya think?
I wonder if George Takei understands that were it not for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor he never would have been interred anywhere. I mean no disrespect to good ole George but outside of it being a good idea for all of us to wear masks, I could not care less about what George thinks about anything.
Wrong, wrong, WRONG.
I think highly of FDR, but his decision to implement the internment of Japanese Americans was based solely on racism.
Germany and Italy declared war on the United States, and
we didn’t put German or Italian Americans in prison camps.
DocBarrister
Factually wrong, again, Doc. We did put Germans and Italians in camps. And Many others. And it was not at a limited number or based upon any one "reason" like racism. We also moved them further inland away from coasts.
Read
Invisible Gulag.
https://www.si.edu/object/siris_sil_628575
The diverse makeup of Justice Department detainees classified by as "Germans" or "Italians" reveals that other factors trumped ethnicity, residency, and citizenship as grounds for internment. On the U.S. mainland, refugees and naturalized citizens from countries annexed or occupied by Nazi Germany also came under suspicion, resulting in the confinement of Austrians, Czechs, Hungarians, Romanians, and Bulgarians. [17] Those apprehended in the Territory of Hawai'i included a handful of Jewish refugees and people of Danish, Finnish, Irish, and Norwegian descent. Several of Hawai'i's Caucasian detainees had even served in the U.S. Armed Forces. [18] The scope of the American confinement program also extended overseas, with FBI agents compiling lists of allegedly dangerous individuals of German, Italian, and Japanese descent residing throughout Latin America. Pressure from the U.S. State Department resulted in the apprehension and deportation of 4,058 ethnic Germans and 288 ethnic Italians (along with 2,264 people of Japanese ancestry) from nineteen different Latin American countries to the United States for the purposes of prisoner exchanges with Axis nations or continued confinement on the U.S. mainland. [19] The ranks of these detainees included large numbers of Jewish refugees from Nazi-controlled Europe, with 250 Jews detained in the U.S.-administered Panama Canal Zone alone. [20]
Federal authorities concentrated this eclectic and multinational mix of enemy aliens in at least twenty-one different Justice Department and Army camps far removed from coastal areas, typically in facilities that also held Japanese detainees. [21] Population totals were extremely fluid as prisoners were transferred between camps or repatriated to their native countries. The Justice Department's Crystal City site, which served as a family camp, reached a peak population of 3,374 prisoners, including 997 ethnic Germans and six ethnic Italians–many coming from Latin America. [22] 2,150 ethnic Germans—both civilian residents and merchant seamen—passed through the Justice Department camp at Fort Lincoln, making this Bismarck, North Dakota, facility one of the chief confinement sites for German detainees. [23] Other camps featuring significant ethnic German or Italian populations included the aforementioned Ft. Stanton and Ft. Missoula sites, as well as Camp Kenedy , Texas, and Camp Forrest , Tennessee.
Just stop with the nonsense. You’re not actually comparing that to the racist mass internment of Japanese Americans, are you?
DocBarrister
No, READ Doc. This FanLax "character" you've created is very shallow. He's nothing more than a race baiter. And that won't get you far here, where we're trying to talk about things at a little depth. Break the shackles of your mind. There's much more to life than screaming "racism!" at every turn. For hating Trump so much, you are turning into him with your lack of reading, and your shallow, overly-simplistic views on things.
At the risk of catching mud from both sides, let me try to help.
You aren't suggesting an equivalency between the internment of all Japanese Americans (except those actually serving in the military, but including their families) simply because of their country of origin with the much more selective confinement of others, right?
You were just pointing out that indeed
some Germans and Italians and others, allegedly dangerous, were confined. But not all, not across the board based on country of origin, right?
And, it's quite likely that the confinement of those Germans etc was well beyond any actually dangerous as well.
The Japanese Americans were definitely treated quite differently than were those from European countries, but it's not that no one was treated as dangerous from those countries too.
Do I have that right?
"The Japanese Americans were definitely treated quite differently than were those from European countries"
I am guessing that Pearl Harbor may have had something to do with why the Japanese were treated differently.
It is easy to pass judgement on the mood of the country almost 80 years later. A lot of Americans were angry and ticked off at all Japanese. It was wrong how we acted but the national mood about all Japanese centered around mistrust and resentment. America saw a similar attitude against all Muslims after 9/11.
Certainly true.
It doesn't justify it, but does explain it.
Race and other ways to label the Other are easy mechanisms to deal with fear and anger.
Need to be resisted in the moment, not just decades later.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 9:35 am
by kramerica.inc
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:57 am
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:52 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:38 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:22 am
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 5:23 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 12:14 pm
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 3:54 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 3:34 pm
Kismet wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:24 pm
Today's tweet of the day from actor, George Takei (Lt. Sulu from Starship Enterprise), American-born Japanese American citizen who makes an appropriate point on liberty and freedom having been interned in a camp during World War II
George Takei
@GeorgeTakei
·
16h
"I didn't spend my childhood in barbed wire enclosed internment camps so I could listen to grown adults today cry oppression because they have to wear a mask at Costco."
He has a point, don't ya think?
I wonder if George Takei understands that were it not for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor he never would have been interred anywhere. I mean no disrespect to good ole George but outside of it being a good idea for all of us to wear masks, I could not care less about what George thinks about anything.
Wrong, wrong, WRONG.
I think highly of FDR, but his decision to implement the internment of Japanese Americans was based solely on racism.
Germany and Italy declared war on the United States, and
we didn’t put German or Italian Americans in prison camps.
DocBarrister
Factually wrong, again, Doc. We did put Germans and Italians in camps. And Many others. And it was not at a limited number or based upon any one "reason" like racism. We also moved them further inland away from coasts.
Read
Invisible Gulag.
https://www.si.edu/object/siris_sil_628575
The diverse makeup of Justice Department detainees classified by as "Germans" or "Italians" reveals that other factors trumped ethnicity, residency, and citizenship as grounds for internment. On the U.S. mainland, refugees and naturalized citizens from countries annexed or occupied by Nazi Germany also came under suspicion, resulting in the confinement of Austrians, Czechs, Hungarians, Romanians, and Bulgarians. [17] Those apprehended in the Territory of Hawai'i included a handful of Jewish refugees and people of Danish, Finnish, Irish, and Norwegian descent. Several of Hawai'i's Caucasian detainees had even served in the U.S. Armed Forces. [18] The scope of the American confinement program also extended overseas, with FBI agents compiling lists of allegedly dangerous individuals of German, Italian, and Japanese descent residing throughout Latin America. Pressure from the U.S. State Department resulted in the apprehension and deportation of 4,058 ethnic Germans and 288 ethnic Italians (along with 2,264 people of Japanese ancestry) from nineteen different Latin American countries to the United States for the purposes of prisoner exchanges with Axis nations or continued confinement on the U.S. mainland. [19] The ranks of these detainees included large numbers of Jewish refugees from Nazi-controlled Europe, with 250 Jews detained in the U.S.-administered Panama Canal Zone alone. [20]
Federal authorities concentrated this eclectic and multinational mix of enemy aliens in at least twenty-one different Justice Department and Army camps far removed from coastal areas, typically in facilities that also held Japanese detainees. [21] Population totals were extremely fluid as prisoners were transferred between camps or repatriated to their native countries. The Justice Department's Crystal City site, which served as a family camp, reached a peak population of 3,374 prisoners, including 997 ethnic Germans and six ethnic Italians–many coming from Latin America. [22] 2,150 ethnic Germans—both civilian residents and merchant seamen—passed through the Justice Department camp at Fort Lincoln, making this Bismarck, North Dakota, facility one of the chief confinement sites for German detainees. [23] Other camps featuring significant ethnic German or Italian populations included the aforementioned Ft. Stanton and Ft. Missoula sites, as well as Camp Kenedy , Texas, and Camp Forrest , Tennessee.
Just stop with the nonsense. You’re not actually comparing that to the racist mass internment of Japanese Americans, are you?
DocBarrister
No, READ Doc. This FanLax "character" you've created is very shallow. He's nothing more than a race baiter. And that won't get you far here, where we're trying to talk about things at a little depth. Break the shackles of your mind. There's much more to life than screaming "racism!" at every turn. For hating Trump so much, you are turning into him with your lack of reading, and your shallow, overly-simplistic views on things.
At the risk of catching mud from both sides, let me try to help.
You aren't suggesting an equivalency between the internment of all Japanese Americans (except those actually serving in the military, but including their families) simply because of their country of origin with the much more selective confinement of others, right?
You were just pointing out that indeed
some Germans and Italians and others, allegedly dangerous, were confined. But not all, not across the board based on country of origin, right?
And, it's quite likely that the confinement of those Germans etc was well beyond any actually dangerous as well.
The Japanese Americans were definitely treated quite differently than were those from European countries, but it's not that no one was treated as dangerous from those countries too.
Do I have that right?
"The Japanese Americans were definitely treated quite differently than were those from European countries"
I am guessing that Pearl Harbor may have had something to do with why the Japanese were treated differently.
It is easy to pass judgement on the mood of the country almost 80 years later. A lot of Americans were angry and ticked off at all Japanese. It was wrong how we acted but the national mood about all Japanese centered around mistrust and resentment. America saw a similar attitude against all Muslims after 9/11.
Certainly true.
It doesn't justify it, but does explain it.
Race and other ways to label the Other are easy mechanisms to deal with fear and anger.
Need to be resisted in the moment, not just decades later.
+1
+1
+1
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 9:59 am
by cradleandshoot
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:57 am
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:52 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:38 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:22 am
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 5:23 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 12:14 pm
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 3:54 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 3:34 pm
Kismet wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:24 pm
Today's tweet of the day from actor, George Takei (Lt. Sulu from Starship Enterprise), American-born Japanese American citizen who makes an appropriate point on liberty and freedom having been interned in a camp during World War II
George Takei
@GeorgeTakei
·
16h
"I didn't spend my childhood in barbed wire enclosed internment camps so I could listen to grown adults today cry oppression because they have to wear a mask at Costco."
He has a point, don't ya think?
I wonder if George Takei understands that were it not for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor he never would have been interred anywhere. I mean no disrespect to good ole George but outside of it being a good idea for all of us to wear masks, I could not care less about what George thinks about anything.
Wrong, wrong, WRONG.
I think highly of FDR, but his decision to implement the internment of Japanese Americans was based solely on racism.
Germany and Italy declared war on the United States, and
we didn’t put German or Italian Americans in prison camps.
DocBarrister
Factually wrong, again, Doc. We did put Germans and Italians in camps. And Many others. And it was not at a limited number or based upon any one "reason" like racism. We also moved them further inland away from coasts.
Read
Invisible Gulag.
https://www.si.edu/object/siris_sil_628575
The diverse makeup of Justice Department detainees classified by as "Germans" or "Italians" reveals that other factors trumped ethnicity, residency, and citizenship as grounds for internment. On the U.S. mainland, refugees and naturalized citizens from countries annexed or occupied by Nazi Germany also came under suspicion, resulting in the confinement of Austrians, Czechs, Hungarians, Romanians, and Bulgarians. [17] Those apprehended in the Territory of Hawai'i included a handful of Jewish refugees and people of Danish, Finnish, Irish, and Norwegian descent. Several of Hawai'i's Caucasian detainees had even served in the U.S. Armed Forces. [18] The scope of the American confinement program also extended overseas, with FBI agents compiling lists of allegedly dangerous individuals of German, Italian, and Japanese descent residing throughout Latin America. Pressure from the U.S. State Department resulted in the apprehension and deportation of 4,058 ethnic Germans and 288 ethnic Italians (along with 2,264 people of Japanese ancestry) from nineteen different Latin American countries to the United States for the purposes of prisoner exchanges with Axis nations or continued confinement on the U.S. mainland. [19] The ranks of these detainees included large numbers of Jewish refugees from Nazi-controlled Europe, with 250 Jews detained in the U.S.-administered Panama Canal Zone alone. [20]
Federal authorities concentrated this eclectic and multinational mix of enemy aliens in at least twenty-one different Justice Department and Army camps far removed from coastal areas, typically in facilities that also held Japanese detainees. [21] Population totals were extremely fluid as prisoners were transferred between camps or repatriated to their native countries. The Justice Department's Crystal City site, which served as a family camp, reached a peak population of 3,374 prisoners, including 997 ethnic Germans and six ethnic Italians–many coming from Latin America. [22] 2,150 ethnic Germans—both civilian residents and merchant seamen—passed through the Justice Department camp at Fort Lincoln, making this Bismarck, North Dakota, facility one of the chief confinement sites for German detainees. [23] Other camps featuring significant ethnic German or Italian populations included the aforementioned Ft. Stanton and Ft. Missoula sites, as well as Camp Kenedy , Texas, and Camp Forrest , Tennessee.
Just stop with the nonsense. You’re not actually comparing that to the racist mass internment of Japanese Americans, are you?
DocBarrister
No, READ Doc. This FanLax "character" you've created is very shallow. He's nothing more than a race baiter. And that won't get you far here, where we're trying to talk about things at a little depth. Break the shackles of your mind. There's much more to life than screaming "racism!" at every turn. For hating Trump so much, you are turning into him with your lack of reading, and your shallow, overly-simplistic views on things.
At the risk of catching mud from both sides, let me try to help.
You aren't suggesting an equivalency between the internment of all Japanese Americans (except those actually serving in the military, but including their families) simply because of their country of origin with the much more selective confinement of others, right?
You were just pointing out that indeed
some Germans and Italians and others, allegedly dangerous, were confined. But not all, not across the board based on country of origin, right?
And, it's quite likely that the confinement of those Germans etc was well beyond any actually dangerous as well.
The Japanese Americans were definitely treated quite differently than were those from European countries, but it's not that no one was treated as dangerous from those countries too.
Do I have that right?
"The Japanese Americans were definitely treated quite differently than were those from European countries"
I am guessing that Pearl Harbor may have had something to do with why the Japanese were treated differently.
It is easy to pass judgement on the mood of the country almost 80 years later. A lot of Americans were angry and ticked off at all Japanese. It was wrong how we acted but the national mood about all Japanese centered around mistrust and resentment. America saw a similar attitude against all Muslims after 9/11.
Certainly true.
It doesn't justify it, but does explain it.
Race and other ways to label the Other are easy mechanisms to deal with fear and anger.
Need to be resisted in the moment, not just decades later.
I agree with everything you are saying. You can't ignore what the country felt after Pearl Harbor. 80 years ago we were not a forgiving and understanding country. We were an angry nation looking for retribution in blood.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 10:12 am
by wgdsr
njbill wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 9:17 pm
wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 7:52 pm
njbill wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 7:30 pm
We seem to have problems communicating. You have quoted excerpts, above, which support precisely what I said. I provided an overall, bottom line conclusion. That’s what this study says. Patients do no better with the drug, indeed some do worse, than without it. What that means is the drug doesn’t work according to the study (yes, with a few qualifiers whose significance or lack thereof has not been demonstrated).
Maybe other studies will come to different results. Let’s see.
You may have noticed that Trump has stopped advocating the use of this drug for some time now. I suspect there is a reason for that.
read what you want. studies set up in this format are not conclusive of anything. much less if they "don't work^. i think you already know that, but can't be sure.
btb,last week i posted a similarly built study on hcq out of a china hospital. one difference was all the patients observed were categorized the same. critical if i remember right.
actually had great results, if china can be believed. i didn't see you post on it, but i'm sure you were encouraged.
it works! study must've concluded that somewhere.
You are shifting now to a discussion of other studies, which is fine. That doesn't change the fact that THIS study indicates the drug doesn't help, and in fact may hurt.
Yes, there have been and are other studies, some of which claim to have some positive results. Many of those are anecdotal. You do know the FDA has cautioned against using HCQ except under certain circumstances due to heart problems, right?
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-a ... setting-or
In fact, the drug is now generally out of favor in the medical profession. Docs have moved on.
My prediction is that at the end of the day, the scientists will develop some effective and some very effective therapeutics, but HCQ will be relegated to the dust bin.
"indicates".
we're getting there. that's enough for one day.
you seem to be more plugged in than me into the nationwide medical community and protocols.
that'll be a relief to the 100s of thousands of ra and lupus patients who won't have to worry as much about further shortages.
and the thousands of worldwide doctors who utilize it, as the u.s. can be a big consumer when they want to be.
as to the binary prediction, i'd make the same bet (so should anyone). novel virus or not, the odds of any specific drug or therapy being very effective are long. i'm sure good and deeper data will drive that for all options.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 10:35 am
by njbill
wgdsr wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 10:12 am
you seem to be more plugged in than me into the nationwide medical community and protocols.
I’ll take your word for it. I get my information from reading and watching the media. It appears the medical community is following the FDA’s advice.
Glad you agree HCQ will end up in the dustpan. We are making progress.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 10:40 am
by wgdsr
njbill wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 10:35 am
wgdsr wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 10:12 am
you seem to be more plugged in than me into the nationwide medical community and protocols.
I’ll take your word for it. I get my information from reading and watching the media. It appears the medical community is following the FDA’s advice.
Glad you agree HCQ will end up in the dustpan. We are making progress.
reading comprehension is a skill.
you don't get far here putting words in people's mouths.
Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 10:49 am
by 6ftstick
njbill wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 10:35 am
wgdsr wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 10:12 am
you seem to be more plugged in than me into the nationwide medical community and protocols.
I’ll take your word for it. I get my information from reading and watching the media. It appears the medical community is following the FDA’s advice.
Glad you agree HCQ will end up in the dustpan. We are making progress.
What?
I've seen real coronavirus survivors (dozens of them) proudly claiming to anyone that would listen that their doctors saved their lives by prescribing Hydroxychloroquine.
I've seen DOCTORS claim they've saved 100's of lives prescribing the drug.
And you think progress is removing it from use? Resigning it to the dustbin?
Because Trump said something positive about it?
Thats ghoulish.