Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:12 pm
by youthathletics
Matnum PI wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:58 pm
I don't think the point is, Nothing matters. I think the point is, Nothing matters unless you can make it stick.
Yes.
And as Mrs Cooper stated this evening and one of the committee members added, that in May there was a policy declaring that Ukraine was cleared to be a country worry of receiving aid, and yet their newly elected President was only elected a month prior.
How in the heck did congress and State evaluate Ukraine and deem them trustworthy enough to receive weapons of mass destruction, when only a couple months prior they were the #3 most corrupt country in the world.
Heck....ggait told me it takes months just to prepare for a simple hearing.
Maybe, just maybe, all his hoopla is more about kicking the shot out of Russia and grandstanding that Russia is the bad guy.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:23 pm
by Matnum PI
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:12 pm
Disagree completely. What matters is that we're telling future Presidents that this is impeachable behavior.
Personally, I agree. I'm just saying the perspective of the Trump-ers.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
I am not lawyer - circumstantial can you or ggait convict on that - if you can, I will hire both of you tomorrow - I have a case ready.
Our jails would be empty if there wasn't circumstantial evidence. In Trump's case, the evidence has to be circumstantial unless we have video of Trump saying "I hereby order the Code Red."
Circumstantial evidence is evidence that allows the judge/jury to infer that a fact exists. Snow on the front lawn in the morning is circumstantial evidence, but it supports the INFERENCE that it snowed overnight. Even where I was asleep and didn't see it snowing. Fingerprints, DNA and ballistics are all circumstantial evidence.
No one sees who shot LandM. But ballistics matches the bullet taken out of LandM to the gun found at the scene. The gun has my fingerprints on it. Records show I purchased that gun. Footprints on the front walk and inside the house are for size 10 Air Jordans. Size 10 Air Jordans with matching treads are found at my house. Tire treads matching the treads on my SUV are found in the driveway. Other records show that I (being an avid skier) was in Telluride at the time in question. I'm going to get convicted even though 100% of the evidence is circumstantial.
It is possible that someone planted all that circumstantial evidence to frame me. It is also possible that OJ wasn't at the crime scene -- the blood DNA evidence was only 1 in 170 million. It is possible that Trump really cared about corruption in UK. But it is extremely reasonable to infer that Trump, OJ and I are all guilty and thus convict.
OJ was exonerated!
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:24 pm
by ggait
How in the heck did congress and State evaluate Ukraine and deem them trustworthy enough to receive weapons of mass destruction, when only a couple months prior they were the #3 most corrupt country in the world.
The law passed by Congress and signed by Trump set out the precise conditions to releasing the aid. State and DOD performed the required assessment and provided the required certification. In May 2019.
It is illegal for Trump on his own to come up with a bunch of other conditions unilaterally. Even if the conditions and concerns were legit. Which, of course, they were not.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
seacoaster wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:51 pm
Sondland: "Was there a quid pro quo? The answer is yes."
This was his testimony. He repeatedly testified that Zelensky was required to make a "a public announcement" that he was investigating the 2016 election and Burisma/Biden before there would be a White House meeting and the aid was released. I now think Bandito is Kevin McCarthy.
Because he bumbled, because he sometimes spoke in connection with a specific call or conversation. I listened to Goldman's entire examination of him. He repeatedly confirmed that the WH meeting and the aid were on ice until President Z made the public statement.
How in the heck did congress and State evaluate Ukraine and deem them trustworthy enough to receive weapons of mass destruction, when only a couple months prior they were the #3 most corrupt country in the world.
The law passed by Congress and signed by Trump set out the precise conditions to releasing the aid. State and DOD performed the required assessment and provided the required certification. In May 2019.
It is illegal for Trump on his own to come up with a bunch of other conditions unilaterally. Even if the conditions and concerns were legit. Which, of course, they were not.
And as Ms. Cooper testified, there were perhaps two possibly legal ways to implement the hold, but neither avenue was utilized. Thus, there was no legal basis for the hold.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
How in the heck did congress and State evaluate Ukraine and deem them trustworthy enough to receive weapons of mass destruction, when only a couple months prior they were the #3 most corrupt country in the world.
The law passed by Congress and signed by Trump set out the precise conditions to releasing the aid. State and DOD performed the required assessment and provided the required certification. In May 2019.
It is illegal for Trump on his own to come up with a bunch of other conditions unilaterally. Even if the conditions and concerns were legit. Which, of course, they were not.
Not buying it sir. Common sense applies to handing over weapons of destruction. Trust but verify.....especially in a climate of discontent, corruption, and leadership change.
Agree to disagree.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:44 pm
by jhu72
a fan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:12 pm
Disagree completely. What matters is that we're telling future Presidents that this is impeachable behavior.
... as well as this one
+1
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
How in the heck did congress and State evaluate Ukraine and deem them trustworthy enough to receive weapons of mass destruction, when only a couple months prior they were the #3 most corrupt country in the world.
The law passed by Congress and signed by Trump set out the precise conditions to releasing the aid. State and DOD performed the required assessment and provided the required certification. In May 2019.
It is illegal for Trump on his own to come up with a bunch of other conditions unilaterally. Even if the conditions and concerns were legit. Which, of course, they were not.
Not buying it sir. Common sense applies to handing over weapons of destruction. Trust but verify.....especially in a climate of discontent, corruption, and leadership change.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:51 pm
by old salt
I think Trump wanted a QPQ, but he was cagey enough not to explicitly state it (except maybe to Rudy & Mulvaney),
or to tweet it (which is the only "written" correspondence he originates).
Instead -- he uses terms like "do me a favor" & "just do the right thing".
Everyone makes mobster movie analogies but I think more apt is the "Potomac two step" from Clancy's Clear & Present Danger.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
How in the heck did congress and State evaluate Ukraine and deem them trustworthy enough to receive weapons of mass destruction, when only a couple months prior they were the #3 most corrupt country in the world.
The law passed by Congress and signed by Trump set out the precise conditions to releasing the aid. State and DOD performed the required assessment and provided the required certification. In May 2019.
It is illegal for Trump on his own to come up with a bunch of other conditions unilaterally. Even if the conditions and concerns were legit. Which, of course, they were not.
Not buying it sir. Common sense applies to handing over weapons of destruction. Trust but verify.....especially in a climate of discontent, corruption, and leadership change.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:58 pm
by old salt
ggait wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:24 pm
The law passed by Congress and signed by Trump set out the precise conditions to releasing the aid. State and DOD performed the required assessment and provided the required certification. In May 2019.
In May 2019, Poroshenko was still President & Lutsenko still PG, but the "interagency process' certified Ukraine corruption free enough to receive nearly $.4 billion in aid (for just this year).
Is this the same Lutsenko that Amb Masha & Schiff claim is too corrupt to talk to Rudy ?
What a bucket of eyewash.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:12 pm
by a fan
youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:43 pm
Not buying it sir. Common sense applies to handing over weapons of destruction. Trust but verify.....especially in a climate of discontent, corruption, and leadership change.
Rrriiiiight.
So when did Trump verify anything? Take your time. Or better yet, ask Trump.
All your ridiculous, nonsensical defenses for what happened here reminds of this Kids in the Hall sketch:
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
How in the heck did congress and State evaluate Ukraine and deem them trustworthy enough to receive weapons of mass destruction, when only a couple months prior they were the #3 most corrupt country in the world.
The law passed by Congress and signed by Trump set out the precise conditions to releasing the aid. State and DOD performed the required assessment and provided the required certification. In May 2019.
It is illegal for Trump on his own to come up with a bunch of other conditions unilaterally. Even if the conditions and concerns were legit. Which, of course, they were not.
Not buying it sir. Common sense applies to handing over weapons of destruction. Trust but verify.....especially in a climate of discontent, corruption, and leadership change.
That is why judges have and use discretion, and this is not even a legal hearing. If abiding by the law/statutes were strictly enforced we’d have to build hundreds of more prisons. Maybe your horse is too tall and and you need to hop off of it.
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:43 pm
Not buying it sir. Common sense applies to handing over weapons of destruction. Trust but verify.....especially in a climate of discontent, corruption, and leadership change.
Rrriiiiight.
So when did Trump verify anything? Take your time. Or better yet, ask Trump.
All your ridiculous, nonsensical defenses for what happened here reminds of this Kids in the Hall sketch:
Is this a legal proceeding?
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:34 pm
by a fan
Yes
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
ABV 8.3% wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:22 pm
yeah, RED, we try to read these stories in more normal, well respected "news" outlets.....but they just don't seem to cover many of these types of stories.
Maybe because there is really nothing there...
what does this even mean........nothing there?
As in not a real story...
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:47 pm
by holmes435
Forget where I heard it:
"There's a tradition of adding -gate onto scandals. What would you call this one?"
"Stupid Watergate"
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:48 pm
by RedFromMI
holmes435 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:47 pm
Forget where I heard it:
"There's a tradition of adding -gate onto scandals. What would you call this one?"
"Stupid Watergate"
Stupid Watergate II is what John Oliver has been using for the past several weeks on Last Week Tonight...
Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power
Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:19 pm
by ggait
Is this the same Leshchenko that Amb Masha & Schiff claim is too corrupt to talk to Rudy ?
What a bucket of eyewash.
As Cooper testified, there were a couple of ways to legally pause the aid. Trump didn't follow those, of course. Instead he just ready fire aimed it with Rudy. Which was illegal.
