old salt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:49 pm
Sheesh ! you make my hair hurt. The article was about having sufficient machine tools to meet the demand for the 155mm shells that western artillery use & are being suppled to Ukraine. I'm making the point that Russia likely does not have that same problem, given the quantity of 152mm munitions they already produce for export & it's unlikely that China would have that problem given the amount of Soviet legacy weapons they still have. When you pinged me on it the first time, I even posted this WSJ article with details that make my point. I don't know if you read it or just choose to disregard it & willfully distort my position..
I read every word. I get all of that....and frankly? I appreciated the information.
But dude, why is this so hard to get? You wrote an unclear sentence. It's not a big deal. It's not the end of the world.
The ONLY reason we're going round and round is that you hit MDlax and I for building a straw man. Nope. We read what you wrote...and both came up with the same understanding from reading what you wrote.
Try: hey man, I'm sorry, I could have worded that differently.
Would it kill you to do that, or something?
Because this is like post #10 you and I have made over this silliness. You didn't write what you were thinking you wrote. It's just not that big of a deal. No strawmen. Just a poorly worded sentence. It's fine. Let's move on.
It was a rhetorical question. Did you get that ?
Sure did!! And the answer you gave was: Russia (&China) don't have ammo problems like NATO and Ukraine do.
See? Just what I told you. You didn't say what you thought you said. You told us that China is arming Russia. There wasn't a qualifier like "China, if they start arming Russia". There was just Russia (& China).
Can we move on now? I know you're not wired to cop to this...so lets just walk away, eh?
I posted a rhetorical question because of the happy talk in this forum that Russia was going to run out of munitions too.
Who said they were going to run out of munitions? You are making that up.
Wasn't me, though I did say that Russia's military situation was weakening while the Ukrainian was strengthening...with the caveat that China's entry with armaments would prolong that difference.
On munitions in specific, both sides are struggling to keep up...according to each side's military commanders on the front lines. Maybe that's all BS, but both sides say they're not getting sufficient munitions.
Salty keeps claiming that the West isn't willing to commit, or perhaps he's just referring to the Germans(?) or the "euroburghurs". Nope, not true, they're ramping up production for the long haul. Fast enough? Sure, the military folks on the ground would say no, but it ain't like they aren't making those increased production commitments. Presumably Russia is trying to do so too, albeit with their corrupted and inept hierarchy...but Salty's claim was that, no worries, China will do those supplies...
It's "as if" Salty was rooting for the West to fail...or maybe that's just Biden and the Europeans...
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:49 pm
Sheesh ! you make my hair hurt. The article was about having sufficient machine tools to meet the demand for the 155mm shells that western artillery use & are being suppled to Ukraine. I'm making the point that Russia likely does not have that same problem, given the quantity of 152mm munitions they already produce for export & it's unlikely that China would have that problem given the amount of Soviet legacy weapons they still have. When you pinged me on it the first time, I even posted this WSJ article with details that make my point. I don't know if you read it or just choose to disregard it & willfully distort my position..
I read every word. I get all of that....and frankly? I appreciated the information.
But dude, why is this so hard to get? You wrote an unclear sentence. It's not a big deal. It's not the end of the world.
The ONLY reason we're going round and round is that you hit MDlax and I for building a straw man. Nope. We read what you wrote...and both came up with the same understanding from reading what you wrote.
Try: hey man, I'm sorry, I could have worded that differently.
Would it kill you to do that, or something?
Because this is like post #10 you and I have made over this silliness. You didn't write what you were thinking you wrote. It's just not that big of a deal. No strawmen. Just a poorly worded sentence. It's fine. Let's move on.
It was a rhetorical question. Did you get that ?
Sure did!! And the answer you gave was: Russia (&China) don't have ammo problems like NATO and Ukraine do.
See? Just what I told you. You didn't say what you thought you said. You told us that China is arming Russia. There wasn't a qualifier like "China, if they start arming Russia". There was just Russia (& China).
Can we move on now? I know you're not wired to cop to this...so lets just walk away, eh?
I posted a rhetorical question because of the happy talk in this forum that Russia was going to run out of munitions too.
Who said they were going to run out of munitions? You are making that up.
Wasn't me, though I did say that Russia's military situation was weakening while the Ukrainian was strengthening...with the caveat that China's entry with armaments would prolong that difference.
On munitions in specific, both sides are struggling to keep up...according to each side's military commanders on the front lines. Maybe that's all BS, but both sides say they're not getting sufficient munitions.
Salty keeps claiming that the West isn't willing to commit, or perhaps he's just referring to the Germans(?) or the "euroburghurs". Nope, not true, they're ramping up production for the long haul. Fast enough? Sure, the military folks on the ground would say no, but it ain't like they aren't making those increased production commitments. Presumably Russia is trying to do so too, albeit with their corrupted and inept hierarchy...but Salty's claim was that, no worries, China will do those supplies...
It's "as if" Salty was rooting for the West to fail...or maybe that's just Biden and the Europeans...
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:43 pm
It's "as if" Salty was rooting for the West to fail...or maybe that's just Biden and the Europeans...
Salty is rooting for the West to fail.
Salty is rooting for this stupid war to end asap, even if Ukraine has to give back a few sq miles of rubble to Russia.
"Give back"? What are you talking about? It is Ukraine's territory. Or did you mean Russia should withdraw( "give back") from the areas they invaded?
Little Freudian slip there...
No slip. History did not begin in 1992, or 1921, for that matter.
Or 1776…..or 1619 for that matter……
Or 1492 when that racist mother effing SOB Columbus dude sailed his racist hate filled ship into the new world
Question to all the folks on this forum. Who was the most despicable person in your opinion? Christopher Columbus or Ron DeSantis??? Take all of the time you need to mull over your decision.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:43 pm
It's "as if" Salty was rooting for the West to fail...or maybe that's just Biden and the Europeans...
Salty is rooting for the West to fail.
Salty is rooting for this stupid war to end asap, even if Ukraine has to give back a few sq miles of rubble to Russia.
If that's your view, you should have been really impressed with Biden with a point we discussed previously.
He declassified the intel that China was considering sending ammo to Russia...and even try and hide that they're doing it.... and sent that info. around the globe.
Really, really smart move. Tip of that hat to him, no?
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:43 pm
It's "as if" Salty was rooting for the West to fail...or maybe that's just Biden and the Europeans...
Salty is rooting for the West to fail.
Salty is rooting for this stupid war to end asap, even if Ukraine has to give back a few sq miles of rubble to Russia.
If that's your view, you should have been really impressed with Biden with a point we discussed previously.
He declassified the intel that China was considering sending ammo to Russia...and even try and hide that they're doing it.... and sent that info. around the globe.
Really, really smart move. Tip of that hat to him, no?
Remember, he just wants the POTUS to be successful so he supports him. That’s his only interest.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:43 pm
It's "as if" Salty was rooting for the West to fail...or maybe that's just Biden and the Europeans...
Salty is rooting for the West to fail.
Salty is rooting for this stupid war to end asap, even if Ukraine has to give back a few sq miles of rubble to Russia.
If that's your view, you should have been really impressed with Biden with a point we discussed previously.
He declassified the intel that China was considering sending ammo to Russia...and even try and hide that they're doing it.... and sent that info. around the globe.
Really, really smart move. Tip of that hat to him, no?
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:43 pm
It's "as if" Salty was rooting for the West to fail...or maybe that's just Biden and the Europeans...
Salty is rooting for the West to fail.
Salty is rooting for this stupid war to end asap, even if Ukraine has to give back a few sq miles of rubble to Russia.
If that's your view, you should have been really impressed with Biden with a point we discussed previously.
He declassified the intel that China was considering sending ammo to Russia...and even try and hide that they're doing it.... and sent that info. around the globe.
Really, really smart move. Tip of that hat to him, no?
If it works.
It already did work. How do you not see that? It was a smart thing to do, OS. He told the world that Xi was thinking about sneaking stuff in. That option has been removed by Biden.
Now Xi's only option is to overtly arm Russia, instead of sneaking it in and claiming "it wasn't us".
Call balls and strikes, OS. Biden's move took away one tool in Russia's toolbox to prolong the war.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:43 pm
It's "as if" Salty was rooting for the West to fail...or maybe that's just Biden and the Europeans...
Salty is rooting for the West to fail.
Salty is rooting for this stupid war to end asap, even if Ukraine has to give back a few sq miles of rubble to Russia.
If that's your view, you should have been really impressed with Biden with a point we discussed previously.
He declassified the intel that China was considering sending ammo to Russia...and even try and hide that they're doing it.... and sent that info. around the globe.
Really, really smart move. Tip of that hat to him, no?
If it works.
It already did work. How do you not see that? It was a smart thing to do, OS. He told the world that Xi was thinking about sneaking stuff in. That option has been removed by Biden.
Now Xi's only option is to overtly arm Russia, instead of sneaking it in and claiming "it wasn't us".
Call balls and strikes, OS. Biden's move took away one tool in Russia's toolbox to prolong the war.
The war's not over. You don't know what China might do. Don't celebrate before you're in the end zone.
China has proposed a peace plan. If China threatens to supply Russia, they might want the world to know that the war won't be ending soon, hoping Ukraine's allies push them to the negotiating table, creating a potential off ramp acceptable to their ally Putin.
It would show the rest of the world that has not backed Ukraine that they can stand up to the US as they point out the hypocrisy of the US supplying their ally.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:43 pm
It's "as if" Salty was rooting for the West to fail...or maybe that's just Biden and the Europeans...
Salty is rooting for the West to fail.
Salty is rooting for this stupid war to end asap, even if Ukraine has to give back a few sq miles of rubble to Russia.
If that's your view, you should have been really impressed with Biden with a point we discussed previously.
He declassified the intel that China was considering sending ammo to Russia...and even try and hide that they're doing it.... and sent that info. around the globe.
Really, really smart move. Tip of that hat to him, no?
If it works.
It already did work. How do you not see that? It was a smart thing to do, OS. He told the world that Xi was thinking about sneaking stuff in. That option has been removed by Biden.
Now Xi's only option is to overtly arm Russia, instead of sneaking it in and claiming "it wasn't us".
Call balls and strikes, OS. Biden's move took away one tool in Russia's toolbox to prolong the war.
The war's not over. You don't know what China might do. Don't celebrate before you're in the end zone.
China has proposed a peace plan. If China threatens to supply Russia, they might want the world to know that the war won't be ending soon, hoping Ukraine's allies push them to the negotiating table, creating a potential off ramp acceptable to their ally Putin.
It would show the rest of the world that has not backed Ukraine that they can stand up to the US as they point out the hypocrisy of the US supplying their ally.
old salt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:48 pm
It would show the rest of the world that has not backed Ukraine that they can stand up to the US as they point out the hypocrisy of the US supplying their ally.
China's already using it.
India is no friend of China. They could be a huge help to Ukraine if they'd sell them their Soviet legacy weapons & munitions.
...but they're not.
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:19 pm
by a fan
old salt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:48 pm
The war's not over. You don't know what China might do. Don't celebrate before you're in the end zone.
Please read what I wrote again. Xi was contemplating sending these arms clandestinely.......where he could play the petty Charlie Wilson game, and then play dumb and delay Biden's retaliation against China for doing this.
Biden outed these deliberations, and eliminated this choice. So now this changes Xi's calculus. Xi now has to do this overtly, after being warned not to do that by their biggest trading partner.
Come on, man. This is a big deal. Biden stopped a clandestine move.
old salt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:48 pm
China has proposed a peace plan. If China threatens to supply Russia, they might want the world to know that the war won't be ending soon, hoping Ukraine's allies push them to the negotiating table, creating a potential off ramp acceptable to their ally Putin.
And if they do that, the US will punish them via trade. How bad does Xi want to arm Russia? That's the question now.
THAT will prolong the war. Something you're against.
old salt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:48 pm
It would show the rest of the world that has not backed Ukraine that they can stand up to the US as they point out the hypocrisy of the US supplying their ally.
Hypocrisy? What's China's first point in their peace plan? Respecting the sovereignty of all countries. There's no hypocrisy here, even according to the Chinese.
