JUST the Stolen Documents/Mar-A-Lago/"Judge" Cannon Trial

[a fan]

Hit job?

Set aside the WB. Set aside any other extraneous info.

The President and his personal lawyer told you------admitted------- that they called the Ukrainian President, and asked them to investigate into a candidate for President.

THAT is the central problem. All the accusations of everything and everyone----the libs, the squirrels, the Hopkins Glee Club, is a well worn tactic to get you to discuss whether or not you like the color of a deck chair, on a ship that is sinking in the middle of the Atlantic.

Stop talking about the color of the deckchairs. Talk about the ship that is sinking.


If you're telling us you don't care that the President admitted to that, fine. Say so.

But stop bringing up nonsense that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Hit job?

Set aside the WB. Set aside any other extraneous info.

The President and his personal lawyer told you------admitted------- that they called the Ukrainian President, and asked them to investigate into a candidate for President.

THAT is the central problem. All the accusations of everything and everyone----the libs, the squirrels, the Hopkins Glee Club, is a well worn tactic to get you to discuss whether or not you like the color of a deck chair, on a ship that is sinking in the middle of the Atlantic.

Stop talking about the color of the deckchairs. Talk about the ship that is sinking.


If you're telling us you don't care that the President admitted to that, fine. Say so.

But stop bringing up nonsense that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

And withheld tax payer money approved by Congress from a small ally that depends on us for protection against one of our key political rivals. Old Donald is well versed in withholding payment from weak contractors that have no leverage to fight back.

[youthathletics]

Hit job?

Set aside the WB. Set aside any other extraneous info.

The President and his personal lawyer told you------admitted------- that they called the Ukrainian President, and asked them to investigate into a candidate for President.

THAT is the central problem. All the accusations of everything and everyone----the libs, the squirrels, the Hopkins Glee Club, is a well worn tactic to get you to discuss whether or not you like the color of a deck chair, on a ship that is sinking in the middle of the Atlantic.

Stop talking about the color of the deckchairs. Talk about the ship that is sinking.


If you're telling us you don't care that the President admitted to that, fine. Say so.

But stop bringing up nonsense that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

I do not care the President asked the new leader of Ukraine to investigate Crowdstrike and the quid pro quo that Biden bragged about. Both of those issues potentially caused chaos within our last election cycle, especially IF you all truly believe we were meddled with. Maybe, the the last Ukraine admin was so effing mad at what Biden did, the DID troll Americans to get rid of the left.

Not sure what non-sense to which you refer, I posted three links in that last post to back what I believe is happening, so yes, I believe it is a political hit job.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/npr/npr-story/765189552

[a fan]

I do not care the President asked the new leader of Ukraine to investigate Crowdstrike and the quid pro quo that Biden bragged about. Both of those issues potentially caused chaos within our last election cycle, especially IF you all truly believe we were meddled with. Maybe, the the last Ukraine admin was so effing mad at what Biden did, the DID troll Americans to get rid of the left.

Not sure what non-sense to which you refer, I posted three links in that last post to back what I believe is happening, so yes, I believe it is a political hit job.

Great. So you would have been totally cool if Obama called Putin during the election season because he heard bad things about Trump and Russia?

"Hey Putin, can you "do me a favor", I've heard bad things about Trump and Russia. Can you send me all the dirt you have on Trump?"


You're cool with that, right?


Think about it. Get back to me.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsand ... 182c3e65eb

[youthathletics]

I do not care the President asked the new leader of Ukraine to investigate Crowdstrike and the quid pro quo that Biden bragged about. Both of those issues potentially caused chaos within our last election cycle, especially IF you all truly believe we were meddled with. Maybe, the the last Ukraine admin was so effing mad at what Biden did, the DID troll Americans to get rid of the left.

Not sure what non-sense to which you refer, I posted three links in that last post to back what I believe is happening, so yes, I believe it is a political hit job.

Great. So you would have been totally cool if Obama called Putin during the election season because he heard bad things about Trump and Russia?

"Hey Putin, can you "do me a favor", I've heard bad things about Trump and Russia. Can you send me all the dirt you have on Trump?"

And then send Obama's personal lawyer (ever notice we don't even know who Obama's and Bush's personal lawyers were?) out to Russia to kick it around, and discuss that dirt on Trump?

And then sick his Attorney General on the job. And then ask his CIA to do the same?


You're cool with that, right?


Think about it. Get back to me.

I sure would. Your comparison is poor, this time. To make it equal, Obama would have had to do that with Putin and a prior elected gov't official (Biden was)...Trump was not, and could not have benefited from being in any gov't capacity.

But, to play along.....who's to say Obama did not do that? Maybe he did or should have while in office, since they already believed he had ties to Russia interference....maybe Obama was nervous to scratch open a scab that may lead back to Biden or even him???? This quote is from the article TLD just posted

But Lutsenko did distinguish himself by reaching out to Giuliani earlier this year with the suggestion that the Bidens may have something to hide in Ukraine

All I am saying, is there is another tangled web, and as of now, all Trump did is ask the new Ukraine to help figure out the Crowdstrike and Hunter Biden issues....and yet Trump is the bad guy in all this mess. To me, ignoring those past events as not news worthy...now that is looking at the color of the deck chairs.

[a fan]

I sure would.

You know this forum has a search function, right?

And it would take me all of a few seconds to find dozens of posts where you're complaining....for months....about a massive "conspiracy" to investigate Trump....a how you think there's a vast liberal conspiracy to take him down.

And now, with no sense irony, you've completely changed your mind now that a Republican is in the White House.......and not only think it's ok to personally lead investigations into political rivals, but as a an added bonus, you'd be ok with Obama calling Putin to get the whole ball rolling.


Is that the score here?

[youthathletics]

I made my case on why there is a difference below. Pure and simple...Trump was NOT an elected gov’t official, Biden was. Big difference.

[a fan]

I made my case on why there is a difference below. Pure and simple...Trump was NOT an elected gov’t official, Biden was. Big difference.

Where's "below"?

I don't understand. Please clarify your point.

So you do you, or don't you, think it's ok for Obama to call Putin looking for dirt on Hillary's political opponent?

Call and ask literally ask Putin for "a favor"? That ok, or not?

[Typical Lax Dad]

I made my case on why there is a difference below. Pure and simple...Trump was NOT an elected gov’t official, Biden was. Big difference.

Where's "below"?

I don't understand. Please clarify your point.

So you do you, or don't you, think it's ok for Obama to call Putin looking for dirt on Hillary's political opponent?

Call and ask literally ask Putin for "a favor"? That ok, or not?

Not just a favor. A favor for lifting sanctions to put a bow on it.

[youthathletics]

I made my case on why there is a difference below. Pure and simple...Trump was NOT an elected gov’t official, Biden was. Big difference.

Where's "below"?

I don't understand. Please clarify your point.

So you do you, or don't you, think it's ok for Obama to call Putin looking for dirt on Hillary's political opponent?

Call and ask literally ask Putin for "a favor"? That ok, or not?

Sorry, I have my thread setup so latest post is at the top of the page. When I said below l, it is probably above for you, I was referring to my post where I answered your question on Putin/Obama hypothetical.

[a fan]

I sure would. Your comparison is poor, this time. To make it equal, Obama would have had to do that with Putin and a prior elected gov't official (Biden was)...Trump was not, and could not have benefited from being in any gov't capacity.

Why would you think it matters that Biden used to work for the government? Why would that be relevant?

......all Trump did is ask the new Ukraine to help figure out the Crowdstrike and Hunter Biden issues

You're asking for a Nixonian government here. What's worse is, you were livid when you even THOUGHT that Obama was "illegally" investigating Trump. Now you're telling me that you're all good with that, and moreover, you think it would be cool for Obama to pull in "evidence" from other world leaders, just for added fun.

You're not making any consistent sense here whatsoever.

[Typical Lax Dad]

White House restricted access to Trump's calls with Putin and Saudi crown prince:

White House efforts to limit access to President Donald Trump's conversations with foreign leaders extended to phone calls with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and Russian leader Vladimir Putin, according to people familiar with the matter.

Those calls -- both with leaders who maintain controversial relationships with Trump -- were among the presidential conversations that aides took remarkable steps to keep from becoming public.

In the case of Trump's call with Prince Mohammed, officials who ordinarily would have been given access to a rough transcript of the conversation never saw one, according to one of the sources. Instead, a transcript was never circulated at all, which the source said was highly unusual, particularly after a high-profile conversation.

The call - which the person said contained no especially sensitive national security secrets -- came as the White House was confronting the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, which US intelligence assessments said came at the hand of the Saudi government.

With Putin, access to the transcript of at least one of Trump's conversations was also tightly restricted, according to a former Trump administration official.

It's not clear if aides took the additional step of placing the Saudi Arabia and Russia phone calls in the same highly secured electronic system that held a now-infamous phone call with Ukraine's president and which helped spark a whistleblower complaint made public this week, though officials confirmed calls aside from the Ukraine conversation were placed there.

But the attempts to conceal information about Trump's discussions with Prince Mohammed and Putin further illustrate the extraordinary efforts taken by Trump's aides to strictly limit the number of people with access to his conversations with foreign leaders.

The White House did not comment about the limiting of access to calls with the Russian and Saudi leaders.

Officials said the practice began more than a year ago after embarrassing leaks revealed information about Trump's phone conversations with the leaders of Australia and Mexico. While it includes the highly secure system for particularly sensitive matters, it has also extended to limiting the number of individuals who are provided a transcript or are able to listen to the call.

Those efforts have come under scrutiny after the intelligence whistleblower alleged that White House officials took unusual steps to conceal Trump's phone call with Ukraine's new president.
The complaint alleged the handling of the Ukraine call was "not the first time" that such steps had been taken "solely for the purpose of protecting political sensitive — rather than national security sensitive — information."
Administration officials say John Eisenberg, the White House deputy counsel for national security affairs and a national security legal adviser, directed the Ukraine transcript call be moved to the separate highly classified system, as detailed in the whistleblower complaint.

That system is normally reserved for "code word" documents that are extremely sensitive, such as covert operations.

Eisenberg also played a role in the early Justice Department handling of the whistleblower complaint. Eisenberg was on an August 14 call with the general counsel of the intelligence agency where the complainant worked, and John Demers, the assistant attorney general for the Justice national security division, a US official briefed on the matter said.

During that call, the general counsel informed Eisenberg and Demers that there were concerns being raised about one of Trump's phone calls with a foreign leader. Eisenberg invited Demers and the intelligence agency's general counsel to review the transcript of the call, and Demers traveled to the White House the following day to review it. The general counsel of the intelligence agency declined to review the call, according to the official.

The White House acknowledged earlier Friday that administration officials directed the Ukraine call transcript be filed in a highly classified system, confirming allegations contained in the whistleblower complaint.

In a statement provided to CNN, a senior White House official said the move to place the transcript in the system came at the direction of National Security Council attorneys.

"NSC lawyers directed that the classified document be handled appropriately," the senior White House official said.

But the statement did not explain whether anyone else in the White House was part of the decision to put the Ukraine transcript in the more restrictive system. Nor did it delve into an accusation in the complaint that other phone call transcripts were handled in a similar fashion.

Like the call with Saudi's crown prince, the Ukraine transcript did not contain highly classified information to require such a move, raising questions about why the order was made.
The White House has not explained why it selectively put certain head of state calls into the codeword system, even when the content wasn't highly classified, such as the Ukraine call.
Officials from the past two administrations said it was unusual to transfer a transcript that doesn't contain sensitive information into the code word computer system.

"In my experience you would never move a transcript to the code word system if it does not have any code word terms. If the president is classifying and declassifying stuff he doesn't want to get out, that is an abuse of power and abuse of the system," said Sam Vinograd, a CNN national security analyst who served on President Barack Obama's National Security Council and at the Treasury Department under President George W. Bush.

Three other former National Security Council officials said they were unaware of calls that did not contain highly sensitive national security materials being moved into another location.
While the practice of limiting access to foreign leader calls began in earnest last year after the leaks of Mexico and Australian calls, it's not clear precisely when the initial steps were taken begin that effort.

The White House was also embarrassed when it was reported Trump had congratulated Putin on a phone call shortly after a Russian election widely seen as illegitimate. White House staff had written a memo specifically recommending Trump "do not congratulate" Putin in the call.
John Bolton, Trump's former national security adviser who departed from his post earlier this month, was known for keeping a tight hold on all information generally speaking, according to sources who worked with him at the NSC. He did not reply when asked for a request for comment through his spokesperson.

A former administration official said that despite the code word protection, you didn't necessarily need a special clearance to view the records and there was a process for officials to access the calls they wanted.

Trump's relationships with both Prince Mohammed and Putin have come under scrutiny over the past several years. Both are strongmen with dismal human rights records.

After Khashoggi was murdered at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul in October 2018, Trump vowed to get to the bottom of the matter. But he has repeatedly said he's unwilling to break off US-Saudi ties -- including military and trade — as a result.

With Putin, Trump has regularly worked arduously to guard his conversations, including asking for notes taken by his interpreter after their first encounter in 2017. He remains sensitive to accusations he's too cozy with the Russian leader who oversaw an election interference effort to get him elected.

[old salt]

^^^ very impressive work TLD. How long did it take you to research & write that ^^^

Interesting article on how the WB form has gone through some revisions, just after the Russian Collusion story blew away in the wind.

.. ...that's some very impressive Deep State sleight of hand re, the date, upload & publication of the "revised" WB complaint form.

I wonder if the DoJ OLC was included in distribution of the change transmittal ?

I hope the IC IG gets to explain the change process (& timing) of the complaint form in open testimony before Congress.

Six ways from Sunday legerdemain.

[a fan]

Oh totally. That's what you should focus on.

Rather than things like: I wonder what he said to the Saudi's, or how about that time he demanded to be unattended with Putin?

It's all good. You only think he's unfit to serve, and he's in charge of what our men and women in uniform do. So what could go wrong?



So yeah, we should instead focus our attention on anyone who may have been mean to Trump. And just kill them, or something. That'll totally fix our problems.

[old salt]

Oh totally. That's what you should focus on.

It's all good. So what could go wrong?

So yeah, we should instead focus our attention on anyone who may have been mean to Trump. And just kill them, or something. That'll totally fix our problems.

What could go wrong ? Our men & women in uniform begin to disregard their oath as casually as the civilian Deep State Resistance members do.

[a fan]

Oh totally. The rank and file men and women who work for our government should shut up, look the other way, and serve a man who we all know is unfit for office. They have to follow their oath, and Trump doesn't. Because Old Salt sez so. It's in some book, or something.

No, no, I got it----they should blow the whistle on Trump. Yeah, that works great.

What was it you said? Oh, right. The whistleblower law is stronger then ever.

And by stronger, you mean that the DNI will take any complaints about Trump to Trump's people in 24 hours instead of 48.

[jhu72]

https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/npr/npr-story/765189552

Yup, the Ukrainians know how to play the game. They are dealing themselves cards to play now that there is a controversy in the U.S. Zelensky has his audio tape. The minority legislative nationalist party is talking about a legislative enquiry into Joe Biden, to curry favor with Orange Duce. Trump has signaled to the world, the U.S. can be bought, at the highest level, we are just another New York City real estate developer. Making America Great Again.

So where is the proof that Hunter Biden or Joe Biden did anything other than allow some folks who wanted to believe it was a good idea to hire the VP's son to hire the VP's son. Where is the proof that either represented they would do something in return? If someone gets this kind of proof get back to me (it doesn't exist in the public domain today). This stuff goes on all the time in U.S. business. U.S. military officers in program/project management, system development and test and procurement among others specialize in playing this game when they go to retire.

This conversation takes place all over the US every day at trade conferences:

Company President or VP -- Hey General, long time no see.
General Got Dollars to Spend -- Wayne, good to see you.
Company President or VP -- So what's new? How are things going with the War Hammer?
General Got Dollars to Spend -- Pretty good.
Company President or VP -- You know we have some pretty interesting technology that could help you out on that program.
General Got Dollars to Spend -- So I have heard. Frank told me. We should talk. You know Frank is retiring in two months, had you heard? His contribution to the War Hammer has been crucial. The program will likely take a hit once Frank is gone.
Company President or VP -- Sorry to hear that. Frank is a really good guy. So lets talk about that technology, there is a table over there, we can spread things out a little.
General Got Dollars to Spend --Sorry, I don't have time right now, I am running late for the session on Fusion Powered Baby Grinders. Call me sometime and we will set something up. I'll give Frank your regards.
Company President or VP -- I'll give you a call next week to set something up General, good to see you.
General Got Dollars to Spend -- I am looking forward to it Wayne.

This is not the same as General Got Dollars to Spend saying, "Wayne I need you to do me a favor", even though the result could be and frequently is the same.

[old salt]

Oh totally. The rank and file men and women who work for our government should shut up, look the other way, and serve a man who we all know is unfit for office. They have to follow their oath, and Trump doesn't. Because Old Salt sez so. It's in some book, or something.

No, no, I got it----they should blow the whistle on Trump. Yeah, that works great.

What was it you said? Oh, right. The whistleblower law is stronger then ever.

And by stronger, you mean that the DNI will take any complaints about Trump to Trump's people in 24 hours instead of 48.

The WB law is not there to provide a forum for disgruntled civil servants to subvert the policies of the elected CinC which they do not agree with..
If they can't fullfill their duties in good faith, they should go home, find another job & write a book. Phil Mudd was right.
The more this WB's claims fall apart, the more we see how this was an abuse of the WB process.

You claim you don't approve of any US military aid to Ukraine ? Then you should be grateful to Trump for not funding the war there, until he knows he can trust the stand up comic who just became their latest President, to actually go after the rampant corruption which has made Ukraine little better than Russia. How would you like to see our Javelins & .50 cal sniper rifles in the hands of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion ?
The transformation of you new Russia war hawks makes me laugh.
Why wasn't Chris Matthews sputtering about Javelins in 2014 ?
Sen Murphy's story is falling apart faster than he can walk it back.