Healthcare

[Typical Lax Dad]

Agreed, we do see it differently.

1. Everyone, everywhere gets things from .gov. So that means he should just shut up and be thankful he has bread and water?

No. We should:

1. acknowledge #1, and stop whining when 'someone else" gets help from the .gov besides ourselves, or,

2. demand that ALL .gov help gets shelved, and deal with the free market and everything that entails. And in this guys case? That would mean no steel tariffs protecting my job and my family, while a lot of the rest of the Country has no such line-item protections.

How is this not reasonable? Why does this guy get to take from the .gov, and then turn around and complain when his neighbor gets help? How is this not acting like a spoiled child? Help me understand.

2. So Canada did what is right for their country, good for them. So that also means he should just shut up and be thankful he has bread and water?

Nope. He should stop whining about the taxes that helped get him that tariff deal.

3. Well, it kind of makes sense, considering steel is a safety material that protects their citizens, infrastructure, and maintains manufacturing within the country.

You can make that argument about pretty much everything. Does "everything" get hit with an import tariff? Nope. So again...shut up with the complaining.

I also thought many here praised their 'free' healthcare....and yet the steelworker indicated it is not...paying 40% in taxes and he does not have a doctor.....Trudeau did not counter his argument.

That's because they guy is lying, and being a POS.

A. there isn't a province that doesn't provide .gov health care.

B. he's leaving out alllll the stuff he gets for that 40%. What he wants is high services, and low taxes, just like every other 2024 fake conservative. You guys want top notch government service, but don't want to pay for it. I've had this argument with Kram, and he bails from the conversation because he doesn't like the answer: why do you guys thin FedEx is 100x what it costs to mail a USPS letter? You guys understand with no trouble that in the free market, you get what you pay for......if you want more services? Pay for them. If you want less? Fine, pay less.

How is it people don't get that this applies to government services? If you want world class education ala UVirginia? That comes at a price. If you want JUCO level ed? Price drops. Now apply that to medical coverage. The man was complaining about paying $50 for a dentist visit. If he wants to pay less? (Drumrolll) vote for a guy who takes it out of taxes.

Does he want that? F no, he's ALREADY whining about his taxes. Then he gets mad when there's a cost associated.

Seems like a rather callous rebuttal...in short "You have a job, now STFU and go eat the donuts I brought you".

No: my rebuttal to this man is: how come YOU get tariff protection, and my fellow distillers are stuck with their johnson's in their hands?

YOU are the one being callous, YA.....championing this man's 25% (!!!!) tariff protection from the free market, while his distiller friends not only get zero protection? They pay MORE tax because of their businesses. How the F is THAT fair?

Have an answer for me? Again: do you not realize what a MASSIVE advantage I'd have if Scotch, Tequila, Rum etc. from overseas was out of the gate 25% more than my spirits? It's a LAUGHABLE market advantage. And this steel worker pockets that .gov help, and wants free dentistry to boot.

How do you not see this?

[Brooklyn]

as relevant as ever:







market 'miracle' ~ phooey

[youthathletics]

as relevant as ever:







market 'miracle' ~ phooey

Not true. I’ve chatted with quite a few people this year from Canada and in the UK, in a group that was specific to a health issue we all had in common. So many were envious of how simple it was for us to just call a Dr. Go get an MRI and a CT, and have surgery in mere weeks, as opposed to so many that were waiting the same just to get seen. Many of them were paying out of pocket to go to India and stay there for upwards of months for care.

And no, I am not saying their healthcare sucks, I am saying they are rather envious of ours, at least from those I’ve chatted with.

[youthathletics]

Agreed, we do see it differently.

1. Everyone, everywhere gets things from .gov. So that means he should just shut up and be thankful he has bread and water?

No. We should:

1. acknowledge #1, and stop whining when 'someone else" gets help from the .gov besides ourselves, or,

2. demand that ALL .gov help gets shelved, and deal with the free market and everything that entails. And in this guys case? That would mean no steel tariffs protecting my job and my family, while a lot of the rest of the Country has no such line-item protections.

How is this not reasonable? Why does this guy get to take from the .gov, and then turn around and complain when his neighbor gets help? How is this not acting like a spoiled child? Help me understand.

2. So Canada did what is right for their country, good for them. So that also means he should just shut up and be thankful he has bread and water?

Nope. He should stop whining about the taxes that helped get him that tariff deal.

3. Well, it kind of makes sense, considering steel is a safety material that protects their citizens, infrastructure, and maintains manufacturing within the country.

You can make that argument about pretty much everything. Does "everything" get hit with an import tariff? Nope. So again...shut up with the complaining.

I also thought many here praised their 'free' healthcare....and yet the steelworker indicated it is not...paying 40% in taxes and he does not have a doctor.....Trudeau did not counter his argument.

That's because they guy is lying, and being a POS.

A. there isn't a province that doesn't provide .gov health care.

B. he's leaving out alllll the stuff he gets for that 40%. What he wants is high services, and low taxes, just like every other 2024 fake conservative. You guys want top notch government service, but don't want to pay for it. I've had this argument with Kram, and he bails from the conversation because he doesn't like the answer: why do you guys thin FedEx is 100x what it costs to mail a USPS letter? You guys understand with no trouble that in the free market, you get what you pay for......if you want more services? Pay for them. If you want less? Fine, pay less.

How is it people don't get that this applies to government services? If you want world class education ala UVirginia? That comes at a price. If you want JUCO level ed? Price drops. Now apply that to medical coverage. The man was complaining about paying $50 for a dentist visit. If he wants to pay less? (Drumrolll) vote for a guy who takes it out of taxes.

Does he want that? F no, he's ALREADY whining about his taxes. Then he gets mad when there's a cost associated.

Seems like a rather callous rebuttal...in short "You have a job, now STFU and go eat the donuts I brought you".

No: my rebuttal to this man is: how come YOU get tariff protection, and my fellow distillers are stuck with their johnson's in their hands?

YOU are the one being callous, YA.....championing this man's 25% (!!!!) tariff protection from the free market, while his distiller friends not only get zero protection? They pay MORE tax because of their businesses. How the F is THAT fair?

Have an answer for me? Again: do you not realize what a MASSIVE advantage I'd have if Scotch, Tequila, Rum etc. from overseas was out of the gate 25% more than my spirits? It's a LAUGHABLE market advantage. And this steel worker pockets that .gov help, and wants free dentistry to boot.

How do you not see this?

He has no choice in the matter, unlike us who do. Same for your FedEx analogy….we have a choice. It seems your answer is to tax more to get more, until your work and life is solely dependent on handouts. Do I have that right?

[a fan]

He has no choice in the matter, unlike us who do. Same for your FedEx analogy….we have a choice. It seems your answer is to tax more to get more, until your work and life is solely dependent on handouts. Do I have that right?

No. The "alternate choice" is above:



2. demand that ALL .gov help gets shelved, and deal with the free market and everything that entails. And in this guys case? That would mean no steel tariffs protecting my job and my family, while a lot of the rest of the Country has no such line-item protections.

You understand what that means for the Steel working who's complaining about Government "getting in the way", right?

Now HE is on the very .gov dole he whined about when his neighbor got it.

Hypocrites. And I'm SICK of right wing media boxing and selling this hypocrisy as "small government conservative thought". Bollocks. It's spoiled rich-kid-hippy-sh(t.

You didn't answer my question: how F'ing easy do you think my job would be if all imported spirits cost 25% more BEFORE taxes, wholesale and retail mark ups?

I'd clean their clock. Yet I don't get that, and this Canadian liberal-socialist-fake-conservative who's being cited by one of your nutjob-rightwing-sources as being anti government and anti handout does.

[youthathletics]

He has no choice in the matter, unlike us who do. Same for your FedEx analogy….we have a choice. It seems your answer is to tax more to get more, until your work and life is solely dependent on handouts. Do I have that right?

No. The "alternate choice" is above:



2. demand that ALL .gov help gets shelved, and deal with the free market and everything that entails. And in this guys case? That would mean no steel tariffs protecting my job and my family, while a lot of the rest of the Country has no such line-item protections.

You understand what that means for the Steel working who's complaining about Government "getting in the way", right?

Now HE is on the very .gov dole he whined about when his neighbor got it.

Hypocrites. And I'm SICK of right wing media boxing and selling this hypocrisy as "small government conservative thought". Bollocks. It's spoiled rich-kid-hippy-sh(t.

You didn't answer my question: how F'ing easy do you think my job would be if all imported spirits cost 25% more BEFORE taxes, wholesale and retail mark ups?

I'd clean their clock. Yet I don't get that, and this Canadian liberal-socialist-fake-conservative who's being cited by one of your nutjob-rightwing-sources as being anti government and anti handout does.

This is the crossroad we enter when discussing countries and their govt.

Is there a country where ‘your’ system is in place and working as you would run it?

My argument, and as I replied to Brooklyn: as appealing as Canadas’ healthcare system, it is still rather flawed. That’s a line item. The steel question and tax rates are added line items. Free markets, another line item. Like Canada and here, differing ideas bear different results and never to agreement of all, unless you do name a country that is flawless based on your ideal system; unintended consequences happen, often.

[a fan]

He has no choice in the matter, unlike us who do. Same for your FedEx analogy….we have a choice. It seems your answer is to tax more to get more, until your work and life is solely dependent on handouts. Do I have that right?

No. The "alternate choice" is above:



2. demand that ALL .gov help gets shelved, and deal with the free market and everything that entails. And in this guys case? That would mean no steel tariffs protecting my job and my family, while a lot of the rest of the Country has no such line-item protections.

You understand what that means for the Steel working who's complaining about Government "getting in the way", right?

Now HE is on the very .gov dole he whined about when his neighbor got it.

Hypocrites. And I'm SICK of right wing media boxing and selling this hypocrisy as "small government conservative thought". Bollocks. It's spoiled rich-kid-hippy-sh(t.

You didn't answer my question: how F'ing easy do you think my job would be if all imported spirits cost 25% more BEFORE taxes, wholesale and retail mark ups?

I'd clean their clock. Yet I don't get that, and this Canadian liberal-socialist-fake-conservative who's being cited by one of your nutjob-rightwing-sources as being anti government and anti handout does.

This is the crossroad we enter when discussing countries and their govt.

Is there a country where ‘your’ system is in place and working as you would run it?

Of course not!

The issue is standing in front of a camera with a fat job that's tariff protected, WHINING about "other people' getting help from the .gov.

How don't you see this immediately? That's a freaking Union guy talking to you, and yet your right wing Twitter guy is laughably BLIND to what he is seeing in front of him, and thinks that guy is a free market conservative....nope! He's a spoiled brat lib who wants the .gov to take care of hid dental copay, without him paying for it!

My argument, and as I replied to Brooklyn: as appealing as Canadas’ healthcare system, it is still rather flawed. .

Easy to fix. Pay what Americans pay for health care. Boom, solved.

They CHOOSE not to spend that much.

Ask the average UVa or UMich or UMaryland Student if they're pleased with the bang for their buck. Or more specifically----how was the Government health care they got on campus while attending school? If they say anything other than "oh, it was world class".....they're LYING.

You have to pay for it, YA. That's it. Full stop.

Spending of GDP on Health Care:

USA: $12k per capita.

Canada: $6,300.

Now if you had to take a wild-guess ( ): how much better would Health care be in Canada if they spent what America does?

And please, answer my question, I'd appreciate it!

[Brooklyn]

as relevant as ever:







market 'miracle' ~ phooey

Not true. I’ve chatted with quite a few people this year from Canada and in the UK, in a group that was specific to a health issue we all had in common. So many were envious of how simple it was for us to just call a Dr. Go get an MRI and a CT, and have surgery in mere weeks, as opposed to so many that were waiting the same just to get seen. Many of them were paying out of pocket to go to India and stay there for upwards of months for care.

And no, I am not saying their healthcare sucks, I am saying they are rather envious of ours, at least from those I’ve chatted with.

You and your pals obviously missed this news about French health care:

https://www.bing.com/search?pglt=41&q=O ... A1&PC=U531


I'll gladly take that if it was available.

[youthathletics]

He has no choice in the matter, unlike us who do. Same for your FedEx analogy….we have a choice. It seems your answer is to tax more to get more, until your work and life is solely dependent on handouts. Do I have that right?

No. The "alternate choice" is above:



2. demand that ALL .gov help gets shelved, and deal with the free market and everything that entails. And in this guys case? That would mean no steel tariffs protecting my job and my family, while a lot of the rest of the Country has no such line-item protections.

You understand what that means for the Steel working who's complaining about Government "getting in the way", right?

Now HE is on the very .gov dole he whined about when his neighbor got it.

Hypocrites. And I'm SICK of right wing media boxing and selling this hypocrisy as "small government conservative thought". Bollocks. It's spoiled rich-kid-hippy-sh(t.

You didn't answer my question: how F'ing easy do you think my job would be if all imported spirits cost 25% more BEFORE taxes, wholesale and retail mark ups?

I'd clean their clock. Yet I don't get that, and this Canadian liberal-socialist-fake-conservative who's being cited by one of your nutjob-rightwing-sources as being anti government and anti handout does.

This is the crossroad we enter when discussing countries and their govt.

Is there a country where ‘your’ system is in place and working as you would run it?

Of course not!

The issue is standing in front of a camera with a fat job that's tariff protected, WHINING about "other people' getting help from the .gov.

How don't you see this immediately? That's a freaking Union guy talking to you, and yet your right wing Twitter guy is laughably BLIND to what he is seeing in front of him, and thinks that guy is a free market conservative....nope! He's a spoiled brat lib who wants the .gov to take care of hid dental copay, without him paying for it!

My argument, and as I replied to Brooklyn: as appealing as Canadas’ healthcare system, it is still rather flawed. .

Easy to fix. Pay what Americans pay for health care. Boom, solved.

They CHOOSE not to spend that much.

Ask the average UVa or UMich or UMaryland Student if they're pleased with the bang for their buck. Or more specifically----how was the Government health care they got on campus while attending school? If they say anything other than "oh, it was world class".....they're LYING.

You have to pay for it, YA. That's it. Full stop.

Spending of GDP on Health Care:

USA: $12k per capita.

Canada: $6,300.

Now if you had to take a wild-guess ( ): how much better would Health care be in Canada if they spent what America does?

And please, answer my question, I'd appreciate it!

You are making my point..... We have hundreds of posts praising "Canadian / Gov't Provided" health care outside of the US, and when presented with the argument that its not what its all cracked up to be, we see the pivot that it simply needs more spending to make better. So which one is it....we want what they have, which has been shown to not be as great as discussed or we need to spend more and more to make it better". Point being, you can not simply say that spending more money will fix the problem, it often exacerbates and corrupts the problem. Just look at out .gov.

If there is a $6k difference why is it conveyed over and over by so many around here that Canadas Health Care system is superior to ours?

I have no clue b/c I do not equate price/spending with better. In my example to Brooklyn, I have spoken to people from Canada and Eur. that flew to india, stayed there for a couple months for health care and how they praised that the immediacy, price, and attention to care was dumbfounding. Is that a case for doubling Canada's spending on HC?....sure, go for it, but it also does not guarantee anything, other than more spending and taking from their citizens if the system does not work appropriately.

[a fan]

You are making my point..... We have hundreds of posts praising "Canadian / Gov't Provided" health care outside of the US, and when presented with the argument that its not what its all cracked up to be, we see the pivot that it simply needs more spending to make better. So which one is it....we want what they have, which has been shown to not be as great as discussed or we need to spend more and more to make it better". Point being, you can not simply say that spending more money will fix the problem, it often exacerbates and corrupts the problem. Just look at out .gov.

What do you mean "just look at our government".

Last time we talked about "our Government" you and Kramerica copped to being government contractors.

You want "smaller government", yet at the same time, want food on the table.....essentially telling us "cut government "somewhere else" other than the part that helps me. Why would we EVER listen to you two about the size of government?

Our spending is at Reagan levels, and our effective tax rates are at historic lows. We don't have a VAT tax or a corporate minimum tax, which means that every year half of US corporations don't pay a dime of corporate tax.

From where I sit BY FAR our biggest problem is Republican voters who want free sh*t and to be Government Contractors...yet want "someone else" to pay for it. So as you know we know spend more on interest payments on our debt than we do educating our kids.

The government ain't the problem: the problem is your former R party has established a Selfish-ocracy where they want big government, REFUSE to pay for it....and turn around and tell everyone "government is the problem".

Yet they vote Trump, watch him make the government 66% bigger in four years....and then turn around and claim Trump shrunk the size of government.

If there is a $6k difference why is it conveyed over and over by so many around here that Canadas Health Care system is superior to ours?

Are you serious?

-It's because they don't have millions of people with serious medical problems in their fifties who "hold out until the Medicare kicks in" to get procedures and care.

-It's because for the bottom 1/3 of our nation, our life expectancy in the world's richest country IS GOING DOWN. This is INSANE, Youth, especially so for a so-called "Christian Nation".

-It's because of allllll those American families going bankrupt because of medical bills.


Folks who ask "what's wrong with US medical care" are always guys like you and I who have access to the best care in the world. You and I are set. Our families are set. We don't have a problem with medical care or paying for prescriptions......when I'm at a doctor or wherever and they discuss procedures and drugs, they ALWAYS warn me about pricing for fear I can't afford it because I'm wearing bib overalls. It turns my stomach every time they do that, because I know doggone well I can afford ANYTHING they throw at me.

THAT is the problem with our system, YA. And until guys like you realize how lucky you are, and want everyone's family to get at least CLOSE to the same care? The longer the American Health Care Sh(tshow will continue.

I have no clue b/c I do not equate price/spending with better. In my example to Brooklyn, I have spoken to people from Canada and Eur. that flew to india, stayed there for a couple months for health care and how they praised that the immediacy, price, and attention to care was dumbfounding. Is that a case for doubling Canada's spending on HC?....sure, go for it, but it also does not guarantee anything, other than more spending and taking from their citizens if the system does not work appropriately.

You know you're wrong here, come on. How's YOUR care? Great, yeah? Mine is. Why? Money. That's why. You get what you pay for.

It's why when you look at the rich-kid school districts, the schools are top notch, and the teacher pay is at the high end. The idea that money doesn't buy better care or services flies in the face of pretty much all of American capitalism-socialism.

Sure, there are places where a little money goes longer than a LOT of money. No question. But Canada is paying almost HALF of what the US is for health care....you can't tell me that doubling spending wouldn't have a material effect on care with a straight face.

[a fan]

You are making my point..... We have hundreds of posts praising "Canadian / Gov't Provided" health care outside of the US, and when presented with the argument that its not what its all cracked up to be, we see the pivot that it simply needs more spending to make better. So which one is it....we want what they have, which has been shown to not be as great as discussed or we need to spend more and more to make it better". Point being, you can not simply say that spending more money will fix the problem, it often exacerbates and corrupts the problem. Just look at out .gov.

What do you mean "just look at our government".

Last time we talked about "our Government" you and Kramerica copped to being government contractors.

You want "smaller government", yet at the same time, want food on the table.....essentially telling us "cut government "somewhere else" other than the part that helps me. Why would we EVER listen to you two about the size of government?

Our spending is at Reagan levels, and our effective tax rates are at historic lows. We don't have a VAT tax or a corporate minimum tax, which means that every year half of US corporations don't pay a dime of corporate tax.

From where I sit BY FAR our biggest problem is Republican voters who want free sh*t and to be Government Contractors...yet want "someone else" to pay for it. So as you know we know spend more on interest payments on our debt than we do educating our kids.

The government ain't the problem: the problem is your former R party has established a Selfish-ocracy where they want big government, REFUSE to pay for it....and turn around and tell everyone "government is the problem".

Yet they vote Trump, watch him make the government 66% bigger in four years....and then turn around and claim Trump shrunk the size of government.

If there is a $6k difference why is it conveyed over and over by so many around here that Canadas Health Care system is superior to ours?

Are you serious?

-It's because they don't have millions of people with serious medical problems in their fifties who "hold out until the Medicare kicks in" to get procedures and care.

-It's because for the bottom 1/3 of our nation, our life expectancy in the world's richest country IS GOING DOWN. This is INSANE, Youth, especially so for a so-called "Christian Nation".

-It's because of allllll those American families going bankrupt because of medical bills.


Folks who ask "what's wrong with US medical care" are always guys like you and I who have access to the best care in the world. You and I are set. Our families are set. We don't have a problem with medical care or paying for prescriptions......when I'm at a doctor or wherever and they discuss procedures and drugs, they ALWAYS warn me about pricing for fear I can't afford it because I'm wearing bib overalls. It turns my stomach every time they do that, because I know doggone well I can afford ANYTHING they throw at me.

THAT is the problem with our system, YA. And until guys like you realize how lucky you are, and want everyone's family to get at least CLOSE to the same care? The longer the American Health Care Sh(tshow will continue.

I have no clue b/c I do not equate price/spending with better. In my example to Brooklyn, I have spoken to people from Canada and Eur. that flew to india, stayed there for a couple months for health care and how they praised that the immediacy, price, and attention to care was dumbfounding. Is that a case for doubling Canada's spending on HC?....sure, go for it, but it also does not guarantee anything, other than more spending and taking from their citizens if the system does not work appropriately.

You know you're wrong here, come on. How's YOUR care? Great, yeah? Mine is. Why? Money. That's why. You get what you pay for.

It's why when you look at the rich-kid school districts, the schools are top notch, and the teacher pay is at the high end. The idea that money doesn't buy better care or services flies in the face of pretty much all of American capitalism-socialism.

Sure, there are places where a little money goes longer than a LOT of money. No question. But Canada is paying almost HALF of what the US is for health care....you can't tell me that doubling spending wouldn't have a material effect on care with a straight face.

So I guess you concede all my points, and the conversation is over?

Okay.

[OCanada]

The USA has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. Switzerland is number two. We could fund the entire DOD with the difference. We rank something like 17 based on results. It a absorbs 20% of our national income. If we had the Swiss system live expectancies would be five years longer and every one could receive a 3,000 check.

[a fan]

The USA has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. Switzerland is number two. We could fund the entire DOD with the difference. We rank something like 17 based on results. It a absorbs 20% of our national income. If we had the Swiss system live expectancies would be five years longer and every one could receive a 3,000 check.

It's a joke. I have NO CLUE why the bottom 50% earners aren't in the street, DEMANDING single payer Health Care, let alone the rest of us.

Richest nation on Earth, and our life expectancy is going DOWN. What the F is wrong with Americans???

[Typical Lax Dad]

The USA has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. Switzerland is number two. We could fund the entire DOD with the difference. We rank something like 17 based on results. It a absorbs 20% of our national income. If we had the Swiss system live expectancies would be five years longer and every one could receive a 3,000 check.

It's a joke. I have NO CLUE why the bottom 50% earners aren't in the street, DEMANDING single payer Health Care, let alone the rest of us.

Richest nation on Earth, and our life expectancy is going DOWN. What the F is wrong with Americans???

Sticking it to the libs, dems and FLP gets more traction than helping people.

[a fan]

The USA has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. Switzerland is number two. We could fund the entire DOD with the difference. We rank something like 17 based on results. It a absorbs 20% of our national income. If we had the Swiss system live expectancies would be five years longer and every one could receive a 3,000 check.

It's a joke. I have NO CLUE why the bottom 50% earners aren't in the street, DEMANDING single payer Health Care, let alone the rest of us.

Richest nation on Earth, and our life expectancy is going DOWN. What the F is wrong with Americans???

Sticking it to the libs, dems and FLP gets more traction than helping people.

Clear as day this is true. R's had four years under Trump to help their base economically. They did NOTHING, and the base was thrilled.

I've said it many times: "sticking it to the gays" doesn't put food on the table. But they don't care. It's crazy.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The USA has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. Switzerland is number two. We could fund the entire DOD with the difference. We rank something like 17 based on results. It a absorbs 20% of our national income. If we had the Swiss system live expectancies would be five years longer and every one could receive a 3,000 check.

It's a joke. I have NO CLUE why the bottom 50% earners aren't in the street, DEMANDING single payer Health Care, let alone the rest of us.

Richest nation on Earth, and our life expectancy is going DOWN. What the F is wrong with Americans???

Sticking it to the libs, dems and FLP gets more traction than helping people.

Clear as day this is true. R's had four years under Trump to help their base economically. They did NOTHING, and the base was thrilled.

I've said it many times: "sticking it to the gays" doesn't put food on the table. But they don't care. It's crazy.

As long as these people believe the people they don’t like are going to be “owned” or hurt they don’t care. They can claim whatever they want to claim but history has demonstrated otherwise.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... er-florida