The Hate Directed at the LGBTQ+

[runrussellrun]

Who knew there are such hero's in Nebraska? State Senators Hunt and Cavanaugh I say yea!!

I can be fairly petty so she’s got competition.

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

... I'll bet as a parent, you don't want a bunch of self-righteous aholes with no medical training but an over-abundance of religious fever limiting the range of decisions you might make, with their certainty those therapies are bad for your child and not suitable for anyone. I would most certainly not want to be put in the position of having to make a decision for a child of mine with such issues, but it is clear the right place for that decision is the parent in consultation with competent medical and psychological professionals and trusted advisors -- not these Christian Karens and their politicians making a one size fits all "law".

you don't even have a firm idea of even where YOU stand on this issue.

plenty of evidence, that shows, included in that vague "trusted advisors" to be, umm......members of city councils or school commitees?

again, plenty of evidence, including Legislative/law stuff..........that IS being pushed, or even has been enacted, that states otherwize.

starting with the "children under _______certain age" do NOT...repeat....do NOT need parents permission or notification when given THE mandatory covid shot. Certainly, you haven't missed the "safe space" at school, away from those "harmful" parents.

isn't "climate change" a religion.......full of zealots

[Typical Lax Dad]

Who knew there are such hero's in Nebraska? State Senators Hunt and Cavanaugh I say yea!!

The measure includes puberty blockers, meaning that trans youth would have to go through puberty associated with the wrong gender and live with its permanent effects if this bill passes.

That's a quote from the article and I'm not sure why, but I have a problem with it.

Some more data:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-53500-y

Approximately 0.5–1.4% of natal males and 0.2–0.3% of natal females meet DSM-5 criteria for gender dysphoria, with many of these individuals self-describing as transgender men or women. Despite recent improvements both in social acceptance of transgender individuals as well as access to gender affirming therapy, progress in both areas has been hampered by poor understanding of the etiology of gender dysphoria. Prior studies have suggested a genetic contribution to gender dysphoria, but previously proposed candidate genes have not yet been verified in follow-up investigation.

This is a lot of people…..probably just need to pray more….

[NattyBohChamps04]

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

Thought exercise: were you confident in your gender at age 12? Did you even think about it, or was being a dude just "normal"? Did you reject the possibility of being the opposite biological gender at age 12? Most of the human race does that automatically.

IMHO this is something that's so fundamental to one's being. If something's off, they're gonna know sooner or later. And it's not gonna go away like an idiotic hairstyle trend (broccoli cut needs to die). It's there for nearly every moment of every day for the rest of their life.

Another thought exercise: if we could somehow transplant your brain into a woman's body, would you think nothing of it and live the rest of your life in that body? Or would you think something's off? And if you knew you could be (mostly) a man again, do you think you'd try to transition?

Sure there's always attention-seekers out there wanting to be different. A few will hop on the bandwagon and off again. The stats don't seem to show much de-transitioning or going back and forth at all. And most that do de-transition are doing it for social reasons (can't pass, get harrassed, etc), not because they realize they were wrong.

I'd hope most parents would seek the appropriate guided care for their kids. I don't think you jump straight to hormone blockers. Thought it was a fairly drawn out process including therapy and more.

Either way, not looking forward to when our kids hit puberty...

[Farfromgeneva]

Who knew there are such hero's in Nebraska? State Senators Hunt and Cavanaugh I say yea!!

I can be fairly petty so she’s got competition.

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

I had pointed this out a few years back and Old Salt found it humorous…. My wife teaches genetics and she has covered these topics in classes. She occasionally has nursing students….

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herculi ... n_(memoir)

“Being intersex is a naturally occurring variation in humans, and it isn’t a medical problem — therefore, medical interventions (like surgeries or hormone therapy) on children usually aren’t medically necessary. Being intersex is also more common than most people realize. It’s hard to know exactly how many people are intersex, but estimates suggest that about 1-2 in 100 people born in the U.S. are intersex.

There are many different ways someone can be intersex. Some intersex people have genitals or internal sex organs that fall outside the male/female categories — such as a person with both ovarian and testicular tissues. Other intersex people have combinations of chromosomes that are different than XY ( usually associated with male) and XX (usually associated with female), like XXY. And some people are born with external genitals that fall into the typical male/female categories, but their internal organs or hormones don’t.”

So then approaching as non binary is the better first step than medically alteration is the takeaway? I’m just trying to figure this out.

[Farfromgeneva]

Who knew there are such hero's in Nebraska? State Senators Hunt and Cavanaugh I say yea!!

I can be fairly petty so she’s got competition.

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

... I'll bet as a parent, you don't want a bunch of self-righteous aholes with no medical training but an over-abundance of religious fever limiting the range of decisions you might make, with their certainty those therapies are bad for your child and not suitable for anyone. I would most certainly not want to be put in the position of having to make a decision for a child of mine with such issues, but it is clear the right place for that decision is the parent in consultation with competent medical and psychological professionals and trusted advisors -- not these Christian Karens and their politicians making a one size fits all "law".

You did read that I wrote in for open exploration and understanding right? Of course those pricks can eat a d**k. I was hoping to better understand in case one of my kids is wanting surgery or meds in a few years how much to follow their still developing understanding of themselves vis a vis the long term consequences of going down those paths.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Who knew there are such hero's in Nebraska? State Senators Hunt and Cavanaugh I say yea!!

I can be fairly petty so she’s got competition.

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

I had pointed this out a few years back and Old Salt found it humorous…. My wife teaches genetics and she has covered these topics in classes. She occasionally has nursing students….

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herculi ... n_(memoir)

“Being intersex is a naturally occurring variation in humans, and it isn’t a medical problem — therefore, medical interventions (like surgeries or hormone therapy) on children usually aren’t medically necessary. Being intersex is also more common than most people realize. It’s hard to know exactly how many people are intersex, but estimates suggest that about 1-2 in 100 people born in the U.S. are intersex.

There are many different ways someone can be intersex. Some intersex people have genitals or internal sex organs that fall outside the male/female categories — such as a person with both ovarian and testicular tissues. Other intersex people have combinations of chromosomes that are different than XY ( usually associated with male) and XX (usually associated with female), like XXY. And some people are born with external genitals that fall into the typical male/female categories, but their internal organs or hormones don’t.”

So then approaching as non binary is the better first step than medically alteration is the takeaway? I’m just trying to figure this out.

There are no easy answers. Case by case. I have a friend with a transgender son. Grew up as a basic suburban girl here in town. Told her parents at 18….felt that way all her life but didn’t know how to tell the parents. Sadly, after the parents told “friends”…. Many “friends” avoided them. YA thought it might be the parents fault….

“In this study, we expand on the topic of gender identity genomics by identifying rare variants in genes associated with sexually dimorphic brain development and exploring how they could contribute to gender dysphoria. To accomplish this, we performed whole exome sequencing on the genomic DNA of 13 transgender males and 17 transgender females. Whole exome sequencing revealed 120,582 genetic variants. After filtering, 441 variants in 421 genes remained for further consideration, including 21 nonsense, 28 frameshift, 13 splice-region, and 225 missense variants. Of these, 21 variants in 19 genes were found to have associations with previously described estrogen receptor activated pathways of sexually dimorphic brain development. These variants were confirmed by Sanger Sequencing.”

[Farfromgeneva]

Who knew there are such hero's in Nebraska? State Senators Hunt and Cavanaugh I say yea!!

The measure includes puberty blockers, meaning that trans youth would have to go through puberty associated with the wrong gender and live with its permanent effects if this bill passes.

That's a quote from the article and I'm not sure why, but I have a problem with it.

Some more data:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-53500-y

Approximately 0.5–1.4% of natal males and 0.2–0.3% of natal females meet DSM-5 criteria for gender dysphoria, with many of these individuals self-describing as transgender men or women. Despite recent improvements both in social acceptance of transgender individuals as well as access to gender affirming therapy, progress in both areas has been hampered by poor understanding of the etiology of gender dysphoria. Prior studies have suggested a genetic contribution to gender dysphoria, but previously proposed candidate genes have not yet been verified in follow-up investigation.

This is a lot of people…..probably just need to pray more….

Something like 3mm-5mm back of the napkin right?

[ohmilax34]

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

Thought exercise: were you confident in your gender at age 12? Did you even think about it, or was being a dude just "normal"? Did you reject the possibility of being the opposite biological gender at age 12? Most of the human race does that automatically.

IMHO this is something that's so fundamental to one's being. If something's off, they're gonna know sooner or later. And it's not gonna go away like an idiotic hairstyle trend (broccoli cut needs to die). It's there for nearly every moment of every day for the rest of their life.

Another thought exercise: if we could somehow transplant your brain into a woman's body, would you think nothing of it and live the rest of your life in that body? Or would you think something's off? And if you knew you could be (mostly) a man again, do you think you'd try to transition?

Sure there's always attention-seekers out there wanting to be different. A few will hop on the bandwagon and off again. The stats don't seem to show much de-transitioning or going back and forth at all. And most that do de-transition are doing it for social reasons (can't pass, get harrassed, etc), not because they realize they were wrong.

I'd hope most parents would seek the appropriate guided care for their kids. I don't think you jump straight to hormone blockers. Thought it was a fairly drawn out process including therapy and more.

Either way, not looking forward to when our kids hit puberty...

Ehh, I don't know. When I was 12, it was 1993. I wasn't online all day seeing all the ways that people were different than me. It seems like these days a lot of people are trying out different genders, pronouns, non-binary, gender non-conforming, etc. It doesn't seem like they're SURE about it. Something might feel off, or they might just be going through childhood and have questions about themselves like kids have for a long time.

[Farfromgeneva]

Who knew there are such hero's in Nebraska? State Senators Hunt and Cavanaugh I say yea!!

I can be fairly petty so she’s got competition.

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

I had pointed this out a few years back and Old Salt found it humorous…. My wife teaches genetics and she has covered these topics in classes. She occasionally has nursing students….

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herculi ... n_(memoir)

“Being intersex is a naturally occurring variation in humans, and it isn’t a medical problem — therefore, medical interventions (like surgeries or hormone therapy) on children usually aren’t medically necessary. Being intersex is also more common than most people realize. It’s hard to know exactly how many people are intersex, but estimates suggest that about 1-2 in 100 people born in the U.S. are intersex.

There are many different ways someone can be intersex. Some intersex people have genitals or internal sex organs that fall outside the male/female categories — such as a person with both ovarian and testicular tissues. Other intersex people have combinations of chromosomes that are different than XY ( usually associated with male) and XX (usually associated with female), like XXY. And some people are born with external genitals that fall into the typical male/female categories, but their internal organs or hormones don’t.”

So then approaching as non binary is the better first step than medically alteration is the takeaway? I’m just trying to figure this out.

There are no easy answers. Case by case. I have a friend with a transgender son. Grew up as a basic suburban girl here in town. Told her parents at 18….felt that way all her life but didn’t know how to tell the parents. Sadly, after the parents told “friends”…. Many “friends” avoided them. YA thought it might be the parents fault….

“In this study, we expand on the topic of gender identity genomics by identifying rare variants in genes associated with sexually dimorphic brain development and exploring how they could contribute to gender dysphoria. To accomplish this, we performed whole exome sequencing on the genomic DNA of 13 transgender males and 17 transgender females. Whole exome sequencing revealed 120,582 genetic variants. After filtering, 441 variants in 421 genes remained for further consideration, including 21 nonsense, 28 frameshift, 13 splice-region, and 225 missense variants. Of these, 21 variants in 19 genes were found to have associations with previously described estrogen receptor activated pathways of sexually dimorphic brain development. These variants were confirmed by Sanger Sequencing.”

Appreciate it. So far my kids seem pretty decisive but still young. My sons even starting to ask questions the degenerate in me wants to teach him the good stuff from all the mistakes and misses in my life but the adult in me is like “be a kid and treat those chicks like kids for a while longer son”.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Who knew there are such hero's in Nebraska? State Senators Hunt and Cavanaugh I say yea!!

The measure includes puberty blockers, meaning that trans youth would have to go through puberty associated with the wrong gender and live with its permanent effects if this bill passes.

That's a quote from the article and I'm not sure why, but I have a problem with it.

Some more data:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-53500-y

Approximately 0.5–1.4% of natal males and 0.2–0.3% of natal females meet DSM-5 criteria for gender dysphoria, with many of these individuals self-describing as transgender men or women. Despite recent improvements both in social acceptance of transgender individuals as well as access to gender affirming therapy, progress in both areas has been hampered by poor understanding of the etiology of gender dysphoria. Prior studies have suggested a genetic contribution to gender dysphoria, but previously proposed candidate genes have not yet been verified in follow-up investigation.

This is a lot of people…..probably just need to pray more….

Something like 3mm-5mm back of the napkin right?

Yes. That’s a lot of people. Not just people who are confused and just need more “churching”….

[runrussellrun]

Who knew there are such hero's in Nebraska? State Senators Hunt and Cavanaugh I say yea!!

I can be fairly petty so she’s got competition.

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

... I'll bet as a parent, you don't want a bunch of self-righteous aholes with no medical training but an over-abundance of religious fever limiting the range of decisions you might make, with their certainty those therapies are bad for your child and not suitable for anyone. I would most certainly not want to be put in the position of having to make a decision for a child of mine with such issues, but it is clear the right place for that decision is the parent in consultation with competent medical and psychological professionals and trusted advisors -- not these Christian Karens and their politicians making a one size fits all "law".

you don't even have a firm idea of even where YOU stand on this issue.

plenty of evidence, that shows, included in that vague "trusted advisors" to be, umm......members of city councils or school commitees?

again, plenty of evidence, including Legislative/law stuff..........that IS being pushed, or even has been enacted, that states otherwize.

starting with the "children under _______certain age" do NOT...repeat....do NOT need parents permission or notification when given THE mandatory covid shot. Certainly, you haven't missed the "safe space" at school, away from those "harmful" parents.

isn't "climate change" a religion.......full of zealots

YEs.....perhaps, since, SB 107 California.....IS , now law........your point of view, that PARENTS....should be involved......doesn't seem to mesh with the narrative of those you align yourself with. What IS with California and these crazy laws? Apparently, THEY feel they are smarter than YOU, jhu72.....as the age of 12 is.............

which side are you on, JHU72 ?

Also, isn't JUST asking a question about TRANS.......for information purposes......considered, in the end, "ill indented" ?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Who knew there are such hero's in Nebraska? State Senators Hunt and Cavanaugh I say yea!!

I can be fairly petty so she’s got competition.

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

I had pointed this out a few years back and Old Salt found it humorous…. My wife teaches genetics and she has covered these topics in classes. She occasionally has nursing students….

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herculi ... n_(memoir)

“Being intersex is a naturally occurring variation in humans, and it isn’t a medical problem — therefore, medical interventions (like surgeries or hormone therapy) on children usually aren’t medically necessary. Being intersex is also more common than most people realize. It’s hard to know exactly how many people are intersex, but estimates suggest that about 1-2 in 100 people born in the U.S. are intersex.

There are many different ways someone can be intersex. Some intersex people have genitals or internal sex organs that fall outside the male/female categories — such as a person with both ovarian and testicular tissues. Other intersex people have combinations of chromosomes that are different than XY ( usually associated with male) and XX (usually associated with female), like XXY. And some people are born with external genitals that fall into the typical male/female categories, but their internal organs or hormones don’t.”

So then approaching as non binary is the better first step than medically alteration is the takeaway? I’m just trying to figure this out.

There are no easy answers. Case by case. I have a friend with a transgender son. Grew up as a basic suburban girl here in town. Told her parents at 18….felt that way all her life but didn’t know how to tell the parents. Sadly, after the parents told “friends”…. Many “friends” avoided them. YA thought it might be the parents fault….

“In this study, we expand on the topic of gender identity genomics by identifying rare variants in genes associated with sexually dimorphic brain development and exploring how they could contribute to gender dysphoria. To accomplish this, we performed whole exome sequencing on the genomic DNA of 13 transgender males and 17 transgender females. Whole exome sequencing revealed 120,582 genetic variants. After filtering, 441 variants in 421 genes remained for further consideration, including 21 nonsense, 28 frameshift, 13 splice-region, and 225 missense variants. Of these, 21 variants in 19 genes were found to have associations with previously described estrogen receptor activated pathways of sexually dimorphic brain development. These variants were confirmed by Sanger Sequencing.”

Appreciate it. So far my kids seem pretty decisive but still young. My sons even starting to ask questions the degenerate in me wants to teach him the good stuff from all the mistakes and misses in my life but the adult in me is like “be a kid and treat those chicks like kids for a while longer son”.

I came upon this stuff as my wife teaches genetics some semesters. It is science….nothing to do with “woke” as Old Timer likes to say.

[runrussellrun]

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/face ... 20220SB107

This bill would prohibit a provider of health care, a health care service plan, or a contractor from releasing medical information related to a person or entity allowing a child to receive gender-affirming health care or gender-affirming mental health care in response to a criminal or civil action, including a foreign subpoena, based on another state’s law that authorizes a person to bring a civil or criminal action against a person or entity that allows a child to receive gender-affirming health care or gender-affirming mental health care. The bill additionally would prohibit law enforcement agencies from knowingly making or participating in the arrest or extradition of an individual pursuant to an out-of-state arrest warrant based on another state’s law against providing, receiving, or allowing a child to receive gender-affirming health care or gender-affirming mental health care in this state, as specified.
(2) Existing law, known as the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act, provides the state exclusive jurisdictional basis for making an initial child custody determination, and permits a California court to assume temporary emergency jurisdiction in specified circumstances. Existing law permits a court to decline to exercise its jurisdiction if it determines that it is an inconvenient forum and a court in another state is a more appropriate forum.
Existing law permits a California court to decline to exercise its jurisdiction if the petitioner has wrongfully taken the child from another state or engaged in similar reprehensible conduct, except as specified. Existing law prohibits a court from considering the taking or retention of a child from a person who has legal custody of the child if there is evidence that the taking or retention was a result of domestic violence.
The bill would prohibit the enforcement of an order based on another state’s law authorizing a child to be removed from their parent or guardian based on that parent or guardian allowing their child to receive gender-affirming health care or gender-affirming mental health care. The bill would prohibit a court from finding that it is an inconvenient forum where the law or policy of another state that may take jurisdiction limits the ability of a parent to obtain gender-affirming health care or gender-affirming mental health care, as defined, and the provision of such care is at issue in the case before the court. The bill would authorize a court to take temporary jurisdiction because a child has been unable to obtain gender-affirming health care. The bill would additionally prohibit a court from considering the taking or retention of a child from a person who has legal custody of the child, if the taking or retention was for obtaining gender-affirming health care or mental health care. The bill would declare its provisions to be severable.

[Farfromgeneva]

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

Thought exercise: were you confident in your gender at age 12? Did you even think about it, or was being a dude just "normal"? Did you reject the possibility of being the opposite biological gender at age 12? Most of the human race does that automatically.

IMHO this is something that's so fundamental to one's being. If something's off, they're gonna know sooner or later. And it's not gonna go away like an idiotic hairstyle trend (broccoli cut needs to die). It's there for nearly every moment of every day for the rest of their life.

Another thought exercise: if we could somehow transplant your brain into a woman's body, would you think nothing of it and live the rest of your life in that body? Or would you think something's off? And if you knew you could be (mostly) a man again, do you think you'd try to transition?

Sure there's always attention-seekers out there wanting to be different. A few will hop on the bandwagon and off again. The stats don't seem to show much de-transitioning or going back and forth at all. And most that do de-transition are doing it for social reasons (can't pass, get harrassed, etc), not because they realize they were wrong.

I'd hope most parents would seek the appropriate guided care for their kids. I don't think you jump straight to hormone blockers. Thought it was a fairly drawn out process including therapy and more.

Either way, not looking forward to when our kids hit puberty...

Understood but then in my age and cohort I recall a lot of semester or sophomore year lesbians who got into Sarah McLaughlin, indigo girls and ani deifranco only to get back into guys like me to their chagrin 6-9 months later.

I’ve been waiting to test my son for adhd here even though I suspect he has a little bit of it so feel like meds altering puberty or more long term/permanent feel risky without a very very high degree of certainty. I definitely don’t tell other parents what to do except as their lax coach occasionally but for myself I feel very circumspect about medical actions before like mid teenage years (or later-TBD)

[Farfromgeneva]

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

Thought exercise: were you confident in your gender at age 12? Did you even think about it, or was being a dude just "normal"? Did you reject the possibility of being the opposite biological gender at age 12? Most of the human race does that automatically.

IMHO this is something that's so fundamental to one's being. If something's off, they're gonna know sooner or later. And it's not gonna go away like an idiotic hairstyle trend (broccoli cut needs to die). It's there for nearly every moment of every day for the rest of their life.

Another thought exercise: if we could somehow transplant your brain into a woman's body, would you think nothing of it and live the rest of your life in that body? Or would you think something's off? And if you knew you could be (mostly) a man again, do you think you'd try to transition?

Sure there's always attention-seekers out there wanting to be different. A few will hop on the bandwagon and off again. The stats don't seem to show much de-transitioning or going back and forth at all. And most that do de-transition are doing it for social reasons (can't pass, get harrassed, etc), not because they realize they were wrong.

I'd hope most parents would seek the appropriate guided care for their kids. I don't think you jump straight to hormone blockers. Thought it was a fairly drawn out process including therapy and more.

Either way, not looking forward to when our kids hit puberty...

Ehh, I don't know. When I was 12, it was 1993. I wasn't online all day seeing all the ways that people were different than me. It seems like these days a lot of people are trying out different genders, pronouns, non-binary, gender non-conforming, etc. It doesn't seem like they're SURE about it. Something might feel off, or they might just be going through childhood and have questions about themselves like kids have for a long time.

This is what I worry about with my college lesbian example. (Even if I’m all for more lesbians on this planet)

[runrussellrun]

Who knew there are such hero's in Nebraska? State Senators Hunt and Cavanaugh I say yea!!

I can be fairly petty so she’s got competition.

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

... I'll bet as a parent, you don't want a bunch of self-righteous aholes with no medical training but an over-abundance of religious fever limiting the range of decisions you might make, with their certainty those therapies are bad for your child and not suitable for anyone. I would most certainly not want to be put in the position of having to make a decision for a child of mine with such issues, but it is clear the right place for that decision is the parent in consultation with competent medical and psychological professionals and trusted advisors -- not these Christian Karens and their politicians making a one size fits all "law".

You did read that I wrote in for open exploration and understanding right? Of course those pricks can eat a d**k. I was hoping to better understand in case one of my kids is wanting surgery or meds in a few years how much to follow their still developing understanding of themselves vis a vis the long term consequences of going down those paths.

Dude......you live fairly close to two states that allow minors to do certain stuff without parents permission......both of the Carolina's.

Best to check out if your schools, county, whomever.......wants to pass laws similar to California's SB 107

[SCLaxAttack]

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

Thought exercise: were you confident in your gender at age 12? Did you even think about it, or was being a dude just "normal"? Did you reject the possibility of being the opposite biological gender at age 12? Most of the human race does that automatically.

IMHO this is something that's so fundamental to one's being. If something's off, they're gonna know sooner or later. And it's not gonna go away like an idiotic hairstyle trend (broccoli cut needs to die). It's there for nearly every moment of every day for the rest of their life.

Another thought exercise: if we could somehow transplant your brain into a woman's body, would you think nothing of it and live the rest of your life in that body? Or would you think something's off? And if you knew you could be (mostly) a man again, do you think you'd try to transition?

Sure there's always attention-seekers out there wanting to be different. A few will hop on the bandwagon and off again. The stats don't seem to show much de-transitioning or going back and forth at all. And most that do de-transition are doing it for social reasons (can't pass, get harrassed, etc), not because they realize they were wrong.

I'd hope most parents would seek the appropriate guided care for their kids. I don't think you jump straight to hormone blockers. Thought it was a fairly drawn out process including therapy and more.

Either way, not looking forward to when our kids hit puberty...

Understood but then in my age and cohort I recall a lot of semester or sophomore year lesbians who got into Sarah McLaughlin, indigo girls and ani deifranco only to get back into guys like me to their chagrin 6-9 months later.

I’ve been waiting to test my son for adhd here even though I suspect he has a little bit of it so feel like meds altering puberty or more long term/permanent feel risky without a very very high degree of certainty. I definitely don’t tell other parents what to do except as their lax coach occasionally but for myself I feel very circumspect about medical actions before like mid teenage years (or later-TBD)

FFG, I was following your train of thought, or at least thought I was, until this last post that's more about questioning/experimenting with one's sexual preference and not questioning of one's gender.

[Farfromgeneva]

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

Thought exercise: were you confident in your gender at age 12? Did you even think about it, or was being a dude just "normal"? Did you reject the possibility of being the opposite biological gender at age 12? Most of the human race does that automatically.

IMHO this is something that's so fundamental to one's being. If something's off, they're gonna know sooner or later. And it's not gonna go away like an idiotic hairstyle trend (broccoli cut needs to die). It's there for nearly every moment of every day for the rest of their life.

Another thought exercise: if we could somehow transplant your brain into a woman's body, would you think nothing of it and live the rest of your life in that body? Or would you think something's off? And if you knew you could be (mostly) a man again, do you think you'd try to transition?

Sure there's always attention-seekers out there wanting to be different. A few will hop on the bandwagon and off again. The stats don't seem to show much de-transitioning or going back and forth at all. And most that do de-transition are doing it for social reasons (can't pass, get harrassed, etc), not because they realize they were wrong.

I'd hope most parents would seek the appropriate guided care for their kids. I don't think you jump straight to hormone blockers. Thought it was a fairly drawn out process including therapy and more.

Either way, not looking forward to when our kids hit puberty...

Understood but then in my age and cohort I recall a lot of semester or sophomore year lesbians who got into Sarah McLaughlin, indigo girls and ani deifranco only to get back into guys like me to their chagrin 6-9 months later.

I’ve been waiting to test my son for adhd here even though I suspect he has a little bit of it so feel like meds altering puberty or more long term/permanent feel risky without a very very high degree of certainty. I definitely don’t tell other parents what to do except as their lax coach occasionally but for myself I feel very circumspect about medical actions before like mid teenage years (or later-TBD)

FFG, I was following your train of thought, or at least thought I was, until this last post that's more about questioning/experimenting with one's sexual preference and not questioning of one's gender.

Taking about judgement of people’s understanding of themselves. Hell I didn’t trust my own judgement into my 30s.

[Farfromgeneva]

Who knew there are such hero's in Nebraska? State Senators Hunt and Cavanaugh I say yea!!

I can be fairly petty so she’s got competition.

But a serious question that I’ve wondered is how does one know enough to reject their biological gender at 12? I’m for exploring our humanity as children growing up in all its forms and fashions (despite individualism having gone too far, broadly speaking, IMO). But by declaring one is transgender at that age they are implicitly (or explicitly) rejecting the other right. So I’m against these restrictions but kind of wonder if it’s a mistake to take medical actions at a younger age. Are we going to see multiple surgeries at some point back and forth by/before age 30 in the future? Does it matter? I have to think more surgery is not good physiologically.

I’m sure folks on both sides or whatever will win with this and avoid/refuse having a serious conversation here but as a parent, and I have ones who seem pretty set in what they are but still young, I don’t want to indulge the impulses of my kids with long term consequences just support them exploring what makes them confident standing on their own two feet and knowing they are always supported and loved and that feels like maybe saying “umm yeah, no Daughter, I’m not doing hormone blocking procedures at age 9-10 for you”.

... I'll bet as a parent, you don't want a bunch of self-righteous aholes with no medical training but an over-abundance of religious fever limiting the range of decisions you might make, with their certainty those therapies are bad for your child and not suitable for anyone. I would most certainly not want to be put in the position of having to make a decision for a child of mine with such issues, but it is clear the right place for that decision is the parent in consultation with competent medical and psychological professionals and trusted advisors -- not these Christian Karens and their politicians making a one size fits all "law".

You did read that I wrote in for open exploration and understanding right? Of course those pricks can eat a d**k. I was hoping to better understand in case one of my kids is wanting surgery or meds in a few years how much to follow their still developing understanding of themselves vis a vis the long term consequences of going down those paths.

Dude......you live fairly close to two states that allow minors to do certain stuff without parents permission......both of the Carolina's.

Best to check out if your schools, county, whomever.......wants to pass laws similar to California's SB 107

Atlanta still controls the state and is very different than CLT/RD or Columbia/Charleston/gsp

[runrussellrun]

https://thegavoice.com/culture/atlanta- ... -mailer-2/

seems like yesterday........BUT.......THESE....people are more entrenched than, say, chronic covid and long term lymes.

What IS going on with the hate directed at that "r" congress person, from dist. 12 NY ?

and WHY.......is that hated being directed at him.......from our dear leader posters that , apparently, don't like hate directed at.....unless, of course.....it IS hate directed, at.......the RIGHT......people.