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I have a question to ask the people closest to Cornell lacrosse. Is Gavin Adler having an All American year? I’ve watched just three games and haven’t really seen him stand out like last year. I looked at the stats and he has 9 CTs in seven games, but he also has 6 TOs. Last year he had 5 TOs the whole year.

I’m not a troll. Just asking for an honest assessment.

faircornell wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:20 pm

MoralTerpitude wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:21 pm

VeryRustyRed wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:16 pm MoralTerp - yes, that was a rocket Handley fired. However, it didn't mean much. By matching Adler on Handley rather than Cornell's LSMs, Handley was limited to one goal while matched with Adler - and most important, as intended, he was unable to facilitate his teammates in beating Cornell. Adler didn't need or rarely got close support.

True enough. He neutralized Handley as well as anyone could. BTW thanks for your excellent game reviews.

So the Big Red have beaten Yale and Penn by an average of 8 goals, avenging two of their three Ivy losses from last year. Really impressive what Buczek is doing in only his second full year… I’m not sure there’s a more physical and hardworking team than Cornell. And with the talent they have… sky is the limit.

Does Kirst get the Tewy this year over Shellenberger?

My guess is whoever goes furthest in the NCAA Tournament. It seems to be between Shellenberger, Kirst and Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh is a senior and the last time he's eligible. Kirst and Shellenberger are juniors. All are established great players.

Wasn't Kirst Rookie of the Year last year?

faircornell wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:20 pm

MoralTerpitude wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:21 pm

VeryRustyRed wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:16 pm MoralTerp - yes, that was a rocket Handley fired. However, it didn't mean much. By matching Adler on Handley rather than Cornell's LSMs, Handley was limited to one goal while matched with Adler - and most important, as intended, he was unable to facilitate his teammates in beating Cornell. Adler didn't need or rarely got close support.

True enough. He neutralized Handley as well as anyone could. BTW thanks for your excellent game reviews.

So the Big Red have beaten Yale and Penn by an average of 8 goals, avenging two of their three Ivy losses from last year. Really impressive what Buczek is doing in only his second full year… I’m not sure there’s a more physical and hardworking team than Cornell. And with the talent they have… sky is the limit.

Does Kirst get the Tewy this year over Shellenberger?

My guess is whoever goes furthest in the NCAA Tournament. It seems to be between Shellenberger, Kirst and Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh is a senior and the last time he's eligible. Kirst and Shellenberger are juniors. All are established great players.

How about O'Neil? 52 points. Kirst is the next guy from your list- he has 41 points. O'Neil is on the #4 team in the nation and he has some very clutch goals on his resume this year. Outside of Jacksonville loss (early season/3 games in 7 days)- they've been looking solid. Friday vs UVA should be telling.

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:15 am I have a question to ask the people closest to Cornell lacrosse. Is Gavin Adler having an All American year? I’ve watched just three games and haven’t really seen him stand out like last year. I looked at the stats and he has 9 CTs in seven games, but he also has 6 TOs. Last year he had 5 TOs the whole year.

I’m not a troll. Just asking for an honest assessment.

I think the press kind of vaulted him to an unattainable standard...GREAT player don't get me wrong...Cornell folks tabbed him as the second coming... that is a lot of pressure...

There are other poles having better seasons...That frosh from Lehigh is

NNELax wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:59 am

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:15 am I have a question to ask the people closest to Cornell lacrosse. Is Gavin Adler having an All American year? I’ve watched just three games and haven’t really seen him stand out like last year. I looked at the stats and he has 9 CTs in seven games, but he also has 6 TOs. Last year he had 5 TOs the whole year.

I’m not a troll. Just asking for an honest assessment.

I think the press kind of vaulted him to an unattainable standard...GREAT player don't get me wrong...Cornell folks tabbed him as the second coming... that is a lot of pressure...

There are other poles having better seasons...That frosh from Lehigh is

Of course Adler is All American - he’s the anchor of a top ten
ranked defense, who regularly goes against the top offensive
threats of opposing teams. The defense and Adler have shut
down or limited Handley, Myers, the crew from Yale, kept
Penn State to their lowest number of goals in a losing effort in
successive weeks - thats a good stretch.

We’ll have to wait for another month or so to see how that type
of production stacks up against the Maryland crew, Makar and
Zappitello, and some of the other defenses and defensemen.

Cornell at #5

https://laxallstars.com/quint-kessenich ... h-27-2023/

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:15 am I have a question to ask the people closest to Cornell lacrosse. Is Gavin Adler having an All American year? I’ve watched just three games and haven’t really seen him stand out like last year. I looked at the stats and he has 9 CTs in seven games, but he also has 6 TOs. Last year he had 5 TOs the whole year.

I’m not a troll. Just asking for an honest assessment.

Gavin also has 31 ground balls, the most on the team by far. By comparison, Will Bowen of Georgetown, last year's Schmeisser Award recipient, has 9 ground balls & 13 caused turnovers. Gavin has held each top attackman he has guarded well below their season average. He's having a great year.

GaitsRightHand wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:53 am How about O'Neil? 52 points. Kirst is the next guy from your list- he has 41 points. O'Neil is on the #4 team in the nation and he has some very clutch goals on his resume this year. Outside of Jacksonville loss (early season/3 games in 7 days)- they've been looking solid. Friday vs UVA should be telling.

He single-handedly willed Duke to that win against Denver. He certainly belongs in the conversation in my book.

That said, while he has more overall points than Kirst, Duke has played more games. Kirst is 5.86 ppg and O'Neil 5.20 (Duke has played 10 games to Cornell's 7).

ICGrad wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:14 am

GaitsRightHand wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:53 am How about O'Neil? 52 points. Kirst is the next guy from your list- he has 41 points. O'Neil is on the #4 team in the nation and he has some very clutch goals on his resume this year. Outside of Jacksonville loss (early season/3 games in 7 days)- they've been looking solid. Friday vs UVA should be telling.

He single-handedly willed Duke to that win against Denver. He certainly belongs in the conversation in my book.

That said, while he has more overall points than Kirst, Duke has played more games. Kirst is 5.86 ppg and O'Neil 5.20 (Duke has played 10 games to Cornell's 7).

I'm pretty sure that Kirst is first in the country for goals per game. I agree that O'Neil is another great contenders.

nms wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:45 am

faircornell wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:20 pm

MoralTerpitude wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:21 pm

VeryRustyRed wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:16 pm MoralTerp - yes, that was a rocket Handley fired. However, it didn't mean much. By matching Adler on Handley rather than Cornell's LSMs, Handley was limited to one goal while matched with Adler - and most important, as intended, he was unable to facilitate his teammates in beating Cornell. Adler didn't need or rarely got close support.

True enough. He neutralized Handley as well as anyone could. BTW thanks for your excellent game reviews.

So the Big Red have beaten Yale and Penn by an average of 8 goals, avenging two of their three Ivy losses from last year. Really impressive what Buczek is doing in only his second full year… I’m not sure there’s a more physical and hardworking team than Cornell. And with the talent they have… sky is the limit.

Does Kirst get the Tewy this year over Shellenberger?

My guess is whoever goes furthest in the NCAA Tournament. It seems to be between Shellenberger, Kirst and Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh is a senior and the last time he's eligible. Kirst and Shellenberger are juniors. All are established great players.

Wasn't Kirst Rookie of the Year last year?

I could be wrong, but I believe that since the Ivies did not play in 2021, his first year of competition was 2022. Thus, he was a Sophomore rookie. He's listed in the roster as a Junior.

I guess the next question might be if he plays four years at Cornell or does a grad year somewhere.

laxfan1313 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:07 am

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:15 am I have a question to ask the people closest to Cornell lacrosse. Is Gavin Adler having an All American year? I’ve watched just three games and haven’t really seen him stand out like last year. I looked at the stats and he has 9 CTs in seven games, but he also has 6 TOs. Last year he had 5 TOs the whole year.

I’m not a troll. Just asking for an honest assessment.

Gavin also has 31 ground balls, the most on the team by far. By comparison, Will Bowen of Georgetown, last year's Schmeisser Award recipient, has 9 ground balls & 13 caused turnovers. Gavin has held each top attackman he has guarded well below their season average. He's having a great year.

I sit and watch him every game and he is the best close defenseman I have ever seen. True shutdown defender and a groundball vacuum.
Whoever the other teams top offensive weapon is in for a long afternoon knowing that guy will be draped all over you for 60 minutes.
Just an amazing player.
Gobigred
Joewillie78

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:15 am I have a question to ask the people closest to Cornell lacrosse. Is Gavin Adler having an All American year? I’ve watched just three games and haven’t really seen him stand out like last year. I looked at the stats and he has 9 CTs in seven games, but he also has 6 TOs. Last year he had 5 TOs the whole year.

I’m not a troll. Just asking for an honest assessment.

This could be the stupidest question I’ve come across in a while. You have not watched the past three games. You are just looking at stats. The Yale announcers said firmly that Adler is the best player in the country… he’s having a better year than last year - Should definitely win the Schmeisser

Laxfanatic2022 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:35 am

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:15 am I have a question to ask the people closest to Cornell lacrosse. Is Gavin Adler having an All American year? I’ve watched just three games and haven’t really seen him stand out like last year. I looked at the stats and he has 9 CTs in seven games, but he also has 6 TOs. Last year he had 5 TOs the whole year.

I’m not a troll. Just asking for an honest assessment.

This could be the stupidest question I’ve come across in a while. You have not watched the past three games. You are just looking at stats. The Yale announcers said firmly that Adler is the best player in the country… he’s having a better year than last year - Should definitely win the Schmeisser

Oh and… he has also been selected to the USILA National Team of the Week 3x in 6 games. The most times selected or any player in the country

Laxfanatic2022 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:48 am

Laxfanatic2022 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:35 am

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:15 am I have a question to ask the people closest to Cornell lacrosse. Is Gavin Adler having an All American year? I’ve watched just three games and haven’t really seen him stand out like last year. I looked at the stats and he has 9 CTs in seven games, but he also has 6 TOs. Last year he had 5 TOs the whole year.

I’m not a troll. Just asking for an honest assessment.

This could be the stupidest question I’ve come across in a while. You have not watched the past three games. You are just looking at stats. The Yale announcers said firmly that Adler is the best player in the country… he’s having a better year than last year - Should definitely win the Schmeisser

Oh and… he has also been selected to the USILA National Team of the Week 3x in 6 games. The most times selected or any player in the country

I didn't realize the Yale announcers were responsible for picking the Schmeisser award? Next to any Yale "defender" everyone looks good.

Put your gun away. It was just a question about Adler this year versus last.

faircornell wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:20 am

nms wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:45 am

faircornell wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:20 pm

MoralTerpitude wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:21 pm

VeryRustyRed wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:16 pm MoralTerp - yes, that was a rocket Handley fired. However, it didn't mean much. By matching Adler on Handley rather than Cornell's LSMs, Handley was limited to one goal while matched with Adler - and most important, as intended, he was unable to facilitate his teammates in beating Cornell. Adler didn't need or rarely got close support.

True enough. He neutralized Handley as well as anyone could. BTW thanks for your excellent game reviews.

So the Big Red have beaten Yale and Penn by an average of 8 goals, avenging two of their three Ivy losses from last year. Really impressive what Buczek is doing in only his second full year… I’m not sure there’s a more physical and hardworking team than Cornell. And with the talent they have… sky is the limit.

Does Kirst get the Tewy this year over Shellenberger?

My guess is whoever goes furthest in the NCAA Tournament. It seems to be between Shellenberger, Kirst and Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh is a senior and the last time he's eligible. Kirst and Shellenberger are juniors. All are established great players.

Wasn't Kirst Rookie of the Year last year?

I could be wrong, but I believe that since the Ivies did not play in 2021, his first year of competition was 2022. Thus, he was a Sophomore rookie. He's listed in the roster as a Junior.

I guess the next question might be if he plays four years at Cornell or does a grad year somewhere.

He could also take off fall semesters and be an undergrad for 5 years.

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:53 am

Laxfanatic2022 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:48 am

Laxfanatic2022 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:35 am

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:15 am I have a question to ask the people closest to Cornell lacrosse. Is Gavin Adler having an All American year? I’ve watched just three games and haven’t really seen him stand out like last year. I looked at the stats and he has 9 CTs in seven games, but he also has 6 TOs. Last year he had 5 TOs the whole year.

I’m not a troll. Just asking for an honest assessment.

This could be the stupidest question I’ve come across in a while. You have not watched the past three games. You are just looking at stats. The Yale announcers said firmly that Adler is the best player in the country… he’s having a better year than last year - Should definitely win the Schmeisser

Oh and… he has also been selected to the USILA National Team of the Week 3x in 6 games. The most times selected or any player in the country

I didn't realize the Yale announcers were responsible for picking the Schmeisser award? Next to any Yale "defender" everyone looks good.

Put your gun away. It was just a question about Adler this year versus last.

That HenFan question was a legitimate question,
certainly in the Socratic method sense,

Adler’s numbers don’t jump out at you, yet - except from an
overall team defense standpoint.

One thing I noticed, last year Adler picked it up, statistically speaking, in spades in the last third of the year - Adler’s stats
were astounding at the end of last season, in the ILT, in the
NCAAs.

faircornell wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:17 am

ICGrad wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:14 am

GaitsRightHand wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:53 am How about O'Neil? 52 points. Kirst is the next guy from your list- he has 41 points. O'Neil is on the #4 team in the nation and he has some very clutch goals on his resume this year. Outside of Jacksonville loss (early season/3 games in 7 days)- they've been looking solid. Friday vs UVA should be telling.

He single-handedly willed Duke to that win against Denver. He certainly belongs in the conversation in my book.

That said, while he has more overall points than Kirst, Duke has played more games. Kirst is 5.86 ppg and O'Neil 5.20 (Duke has played 10 games to Cornell's 7).

I'm pretty sure that Kirst is first in the country for goals per game. I agree that O'Neil is another great contenders.

You guys are correct. Not only is he first in the country in goals per game. But also is #1 in points per game as well.

10stone5 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:18 am

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:53 am

Laxfanatic2022 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:48 am

Laxfanatic2022 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:35 am

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:15 am I have a question to ask the people closest to Cornell lacrosse. Is Gavin Adler having an All American year? I’ve watched just three games and haven’t really seen him stand out like last year. I looked at the stats and he has 9 CTs in seven games, but he also has 6 TOs. Last year he had 5 TOs the whole year.

I’m not a troll. Just asking for an honest assessment.

This could be the stupidest question I’ve come across in a while. You have not watched the past three games. You are just looking at stats. The Yale announcers said firmly that Adler is the best player in the country… he’s having a better year than last year - Should definitely win the Schmeisser

Oh and… he has also been selected to the USILA National Team of the Week 3x in 6 games. The most times selected or any player in the country

I didn't realize the Yale announcers were responsible for picking the Schmeisser award? Next to any Yale "defender" everyone looks good.

Put your gun away. It was just a question about Adler this year versus last.

That HF question was a legitimate question,
certainly in the Socratic method sense,

Adler’s numbers don’t jump out at you, yet - except from an
overall team defense standpoint.
One thing I noticed, last year Adler picked it up, statistically speaking, in spades in the last third of the year - Adler’s stats
were astounding at the end of last season, in the ILT, in the
NCAAs.

Henpecked/10stone5: fair question re Adler - this is what chatboards are all about! I'm a big Cornell fan and have seen every minute of Cornell action this year. IMO, Adler is having a great year. Consider the following:

* He has faced and had the primary assignment for Handley (3,1), Brandau (1,1), Myers (0,3) and Scott Cole (0,0) (LEH, pretty good player), among others. While stats don't tell the whole story - his numbers against this group are outstanding (see parens above). Handley did beat him late in the game by backing in and essentially shooting over him for one goal. Really strong play by Handley. But I would posit that Handley is a generational talent and will get his goals from time to time by sheer will of force and power. His other two goals were in situations when other Cornell defenders were on him. He destroyed Brandau in their few individual matchups. He completely shut down Myers in his minimal dodging attempts - and his numbers against Cole speak for themselves (goose egg). That's a pretty good lineup of some "elite" college lacrosse players. In fact, check the preseason AAs and you will see many of their names.

* Most importantly now - offensive players AVOID dodging against Adler. That is why you have to take defensive stats with a grain of salt. Even Handley only took him on directly on two occasions. If you watch carefully he gave the ball up on a few occasions to my surprise. He has completely owned Brandau and Myers for two years now. I was shocked that Myers essentially gave up on going to the goal after one try. Brandau did not do any better (although in fairness Cornell played a good bit of zone at times v Yale). It is hard to compile stats when offensive players move the rock to the next guy instead of going to the goal!

* As mentioned, Adler is incredible off the ground and has an innate skill at coming up with ground balls. He is universally known as a ground ball machine and has only enhanced that part of his game this year.

And so these primary reasons, in my view, support the notion that he has had a great year already. Thx. Love the discourse on all things college lacrosse!

VF

Thanks VF.

That’s a good summary. In the three games I watched, the attack was avoiding direct dodging against him for a good deal of the time (probably a sound strategy). I’m just used to seeing him with 2-4 CTs a game like at the end of ‘22. It’s tough to ignore his dominance at times.

I think Jack Myers is avoiding every close defenseman lately (7 goals in the last 8 games). He was nearly invisible in the win over Rutgers on Sunday. Myers had 38g 45a last year. But that’s another topic altogether.

VF - great points.
-I was at the game vs. Yale, and while Brandau didn't completely "cease and desist" going against Adler as did Myers, he did not have very much to show, especially for a guy who gets, IMO, an unbelievable amount of recognition.

-For a guy who doesn't have particularly thick legs, Adler has to possess a) excellent upper body strength and b) off the charts technique. The proof is in the pudding --- despite the big size differential, he was he able to maintain his leverage against Handley (and all of the other big attackmen he's faced for a few years). Testament to Adler's skills/abilities - two of Handley's goals were scored against Follows who I really like as an on-ball defender. Handley pretty much ran through Follows. I believe the other goal was against Staub and if memory serves me correct he shot over Staub who goes 6'1."

Interestingly enough, Adler was recruited as an LSM. I recall his freshman year where he pretty much only got spot duty, as best. I really liked his footwork and feisty play very early on. If I'm not mistaken, however, he didn't play LSM again after the infamous Penn game that year in which Cornell blew a big lead and lost by 1 in the last second after a Penn inbounds from the corner with a few seconds left. I could be wrong, but I think Cornell was playing man-down in the 1st half when Adler took a second concurrent penalty. Penn scored multiple goals. Coaches were not at all happy, to say the least. That sequence has always stuck in my mind; I'm pretty sure it was Adler. I'd say he has more than made up the mistake.