LaxPower Back-Up Stick

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:30 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:16 pm The more that comes out about the WB, his tactics, lawyer & dealings with Schiff & staff, the less pure his motives & tactics appear & the more obvious it beomes that this is a well orchestrated palace coup, abusing the impeachment process to damage Trump going into the election.
Just read the WB lawyer's tweets to see what this really is.

How can the WB take out the President if, as you claim to think, Trump did nothing wrong?

This is twice now that FoxNation is claiming a coup.

The first was when the FBI plotted to investigate Russia and Trump and (drumroll) clear Trump of any wrongdoing.

Now the claim is that the WB reported a phone call that, according to FoxNation, had Trump (drumroll) doing nothing wrong. If that's true? How the F is this a conspiracy? Who cares what the WB said if it's merely a report of legal and ethical activity?

Wow. Those are some epic conspiracies. What's next? The Deep State "conspiring" to give Trump a hug? Oooooh. Devious!


FoxNation can't even get their conspiracy stories to make sense.

RedFromMI wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:57 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:30 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:16 pm The more that comes out about the WB, his tactics, lawyer & dealings with Schiff & staff, the less pure his motives & tactics appear & the more obvious it beomes that this is a well orchestrated palace coup, abusing the impeachment process to damage Trump going into the election.
Just read the WB lawyer's tweets to see what this really is.

How can the WB take out the President if, as you claim to think, Trump did nothing wrong?
Stupid ? - yes. Illegal ? - no. Impeachabe -- not likely, based on what's been revealed so far.

This is twice now that FoxNation is claiming a coup.

The first was when the FBI plotted to investigate Russia and Trump and (drumroll) clear Trump of any wrongdoing.
Yeah. 3 years of Russiagte was great for Trump.

Now the claim is that the WB reported a phone call that, according to FoxNation, had Trump (drumroll) doing nothing wrong. If that's true? How the F is this a conspiracy? Who cares what the WB said if it's merely a report of legal and ethical activity?
First it was 3 years yelling "Russia, collusion". Now it will be a year of yelling "bribery, extortion, abuse of power".
The wheels go round & round.

Wow. Those are some epic conspiracies. What's next? The Deep State "conspiring" to give Trump a hug? Oooooh. Devious!

FoxNation can't even get their conspiracy stories to make sense.

The WB basically noted that Trump was using foreign policy for personal gain. But the WB was really more like the person who smells smoke and sees flames and pulls the fire alarm (H/T to the congressman who just used that metaphor...). The fact is that multiple direct witnesses to both the call in questions and multiple other meetings/events back up what the WB indicated prove that something really was going on. The WB was just the messenger who brought information to light for the first time outside of the administration.

Trump had no interest in lowering the corruption in Ukraine. He specifically was encouraging _more_ corruption, because he expected a publicly announced investigation into a false conspiracy theory. One that might both help exonerate Russia over its already proven involvement in putting its thumbs on the scales in the 2016 election, and one that would also help raise questions about one of his more feared rivals for the next election. This is extortion/solicitation of a bribe. Criminal.

To say this is a palace coup is just absolutely a desperate move to try and head off any Rs who might vote to remove Trump. That is why there is so much flailing in trying to defend Trump - he seems to be pretty guilty by all the testimony so far. So rather than come up with actual evidence - attack the process. But of course with Trump himself in charge of the defense it is generally quite scattershot.

What is likely to save Trump in the Senate is the fact that the Rs standing for re-election are basically so scared of the TrumpNation that they don't dare go against the OD. Unless the Ds can get more of the public (and some of the "hard" Rs) to see he is more of a problem than a solution...

It's not unreasonable to ask for information about what came out of Ukraine during the '16 campaign & for an accounting of Biden family dealings with Ukraine.

ggait wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:10 pm

It's not unreasonable to ask for information about what came out of Ukraine during the '16 campaign & for an accounting of Biden family dealings with Ukraine.

Agree. It is not unreasonable for Trump to commit bribery:

"Whoever being a public official or person selected to be a public official, directly or indirectly, corruptly demands, seeks, receives, accepts, or agrees to receive or accept anything of value personally or for any other person or entity, in return for being influenced in the performance of any official act."

18 U.S.C. Section 201

And of course also:

The President shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of...Bribery.

Article II, Section 4

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:15 pm It wasn’t really Russia, says Salty.

Why aren’t we surprised?

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:03 pm tupid ? - yes. Illegal ? - no. Impeachabe -- not likely, based on what's been revealed so far.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:10 pm Yeah. 3 years of Russiagte was great for Trump.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:10 pm First it was 3 years yelling "Russia, collusion". Now it will be a year of yelling "bribery, extortion, abuse of power".
The wheels go round & round.

RedFromMI wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:57 pm Trump had no interest in lowering the corruption in Ukraine.

afan :
You used to understand this. Now here you are, acting like Trump is the most angelic President ever, and the rest of us are Satan worshipping demons trying to take our innocent President down.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:01 pm

afan :
You used to understand this. Now here you are, acting like Trump is the most angelic President ever, and the rest of us are Satan worshipping demons trying to take our innocent President down.

Still do. I told you what I thought of Trump, from the beginning. That hasn't changed.
That doesn't mean I have to accept the things his enemies are doing to subvert & sabotage his Presidency.
I still support many of Trump's policies & I'm still confident the Republic can survive his manifest defects & shortcomings.
The status quo needed to be disrupted.
I just want something good to come from his time in office.
That would be possible if the concept of a loyal opposition still existed.

calourie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:39 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:01 pm

afan :
You used to understand this. Now here you are, acting like Trump is the most angelic President ever, and the rest of us are Satan worshipping demons trying to take our innocent President down.

Still do. I told you what I thought of Trump, from the beginning. That hasn't changed.
That doesn't mean I have to accept the things his enemies are doing to subvert & sabotage his Presidency.
I still support many of Trump's policies & I'm still confident the Republic can survive his manifest defects & shortcomings.
The status quo needed to be disrupted.
I just want something good to come from his time in office.
That would be possible if the concept of a loyal opposition still existed.

Old Salt, I would somewhat respectfully submit that no good can come from the occupation of the position of POTUS by a man with as little regard for the truth and service to the nation that Trump has exhibited throughout much of his adult life and continues to exhibit repeatedly. That Trump is all about Trump is very difficult to refute, and how that approach to governing could begin to generate a "loyal opposition" is difficult to comprehend. Apparently you can explain it to yourself as you make a point of trying to explain it to others, but to not acknowledge that his behavior and actions have generated a goodly portion of the enemies that are now intent on removing him from office seems a trifle obtuse. I for one was willing to give him some time when he won the election to indicate a degree of fitness for the office he had succeeded in gaining, but quickly realized he was never going to develop even the slightest level of honesty and decency I would expect as a minimum requirement for occupying the office he currently holds, and trust me I have no illusions regarding my own sainthood. Anyway, on to the public hearings, and we shall see if any republicans or a significant percentage of undecideds can be convinced to leave the "dark side".

calourie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:39 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:01 pm

afan :
You used to understand this. Now here you are, acting like Trump is the most angelic President ever, and the rest of us are Satan worshipping demons trying to take our innocent President down.

Still do. I told you what I thought of Trump, from the beginning. That hasn't changed.
That doesn't mean I have to accept the things his enemies are doing to subvert & sabotage his Presidency.
I still support many of Trump's policies & I'm still confident the Republic can survive his manifest defects & shortcomings.
The status quo needed to be disrupted.
I just want something good to come from his time in office.
That would be possible if the concept of a loyal opposition still existed.

Old Salt, I would somewhat respectfully submit that no good can come from the occupation of the position of POTUS by a man with as little regard for the truth and service to the nation that Trump has exhibited throughout much of his adult life and continues to exhibit repeatedly. That Trump is all about Trump is very difficult to refute, and how that approach to governing could begin to generate a "loyal opposition" is difficult to comprehend. Apparently you can explain it to yourself as you make a point of trying to explain it to others, but to not acknowledge that his behavior and actions have generated a goodly portion of the enemies that are now intent on removing him from office seems a trifle obtuse. I for one was willing to give him some time when he won the election to indicate a degree of fitness for the office he had succeeded in gaining, but quickly realized he was never going to develop even the slightest level of honesty and decency I would expect as a minimum requirement for occupying the office he currently holds, and trust me I have no illusions regarding my own sainthood. Anyway, on to the public hearings, and we shall see if any republicans or a significant percentage of undecideds can be convinced to leave the "dark side".

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:03 pm

RedFromMI wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:57 pm
The WB basically noted that Trump was using foreign policy for personal gain. But the WB was really more like the person who smells smoke and sees flames and pulls the fire alarm (H/T to the congressman who just used that metaphor...). The fact is that multiple direct witnesses to both the call in questions and multiple other meetings/events back up what the WB indicated prove that something really was going on. The WB was just the messenger who brought information to light for the first time outside of the administration.

Trump had no interest in lowering the corruption in Ukraine. He specifically was encouraging _more_ corruption, because he expected a publicly announced investigation into a false conspiracy theory. One that might both help exonerate Russia over its already proven involvement in putting its thumbs on the scales in the 2016 election, and one that would also help raise questions about one of his more feared rivals for the next election. This is extortion/solicitation of a bribe. Criminal.

To say this is a palace coup is just absolutely a desperate move to try and head off any Rs who might vote to remove Trump. That is why there is so much flailing in trying to defend Trump - he seems to be pretty guilty by all the testimony so far. So rather than come up with actual evidence - attack the process. But of course with Trump himself in charge of the defense it is generally quite scattershot.

What is likely to save Trump in the Senate is the fact that the Rs standing for re-election are basically so scared of the TrumpNation that they don't dare go against the OD. Unless the Ds can get more of the public (and some of the "hard" Rs) to see he is more of a problem than a solution...

That all conveniently ignores what the DNC & Chalupa did in 2016, & any details about a possible Biden family QPQ.
...nothing to see here, folks.

calourie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:26 pm The admission of guilt in Trump's own transcript has brought on the impeachment process. No deep state required. Undeniable impeachable conduct, which we SHOULD NOT "just get over". It's a huge part of the reason for the existence of the U.S. Constitution, moreso than the military.

So Biden & family are immune from scrutiny because he's a declared candidate.