Trump's Russian Collusion

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.
a fan
Posts: 18556
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by a fan »

foreverlax wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:10 pm No, but what it says is — no, what I'm asking for is that they be treated equally. And I think the American public's going to say, "If you didn't do anything to Hillary Clinton for hiring a foreign spy, why is it, all of a sudden, wrong for President Trump --
The list of colleges I'm never sending my daughter to gets longer by the day. I guess Duke is out now.

Has it escaped Rand Paul's attention that America was so sick of Hillary's *hit that they voted for Trump instead of her?

She's a civilian. We are LITERALLY asking for equal treatment. Make Trump a civilian, too.

Neither of these corrupt POS's deserve to lead our nation.
seacoaster
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by seacoaster »

Bolton says, "Please, no thanks:"

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/11/us/p ... e=Homepage

"A long-simmering feud within the White House broke into the open on Monday as a lawyer for John R. Bolton, President Trump’s former national security adviser, filed a motion trying to keep Mick Mulvaney, the president’s acting chief of staff, from joining a lawsuit over impeachment testimony.

Mr. Bolton’s lawyer argued in court papers that Mr. Mulvaney should not be allowed to jump into the existing lawsuit as a plaintiff because his interests are significantly different. But the legal schism underscored a broader rift between Mr. Mulvaney, who facilitated Mr. Trump’s effort to pressure Ukraine for damaging information about Democrats, and Mr. Bolton, who tried to resist it.

The lawsuit, filed by Charles M. Kupperman, a former deputy national security adviser and longtime associate of Mr. Bolton’s, asked a court to decide whether Mr. Kupperman should obey the president’s dictate or a House subpoena. While not technically a party to the lawsuit, Mr. Bolton, who left his post in September after clashing with Mr. Trump, is represented by the same lawyer, Charles J. Cooper, and is taking the same position as Mr. Kupperman in waiting for the court to decide whether he should testify or not.

Mr. Mulvaney’s effort to join the lawsuit late Friday night stunned many involved in the impeachment debate because he still works for the president. Rather than obey the president’s order not to cooperate with House investigators, as some other current administration officials have done, Mr. Mulvaney instead opted to ask a court to decide whether he should listen to his boss.

Mr. Mulvaney did not ask Mr. Bolton or Mr. Kupperman for permission to join the lawsuit nor did he give them a heads up. Mr. Bolton and his team considered it an outrageous move since they were on opposite sides of the Ukraine fight and did not want their lawsuit polluted with Mr. Mulvaney.

Not only did the motion filed Monday by Mr. Bolton’s camp seek to keep Mr. Mulvaney out of the lawsuit, it even advanced an argument that the acting chief of staff may have to testify before House impeachment investigators. The motion noted that in a briefing with reporters last month, Mr. Mulvaney appeared “to admit that there was a quid pro quo” before later trying to take back the admission, meaning that he might not have the right to defy a House subpoena since he had already discussed the matter in public.

“Accordingly, there is a serious question as to whether Mulvaney waived the absolute testimonial immunity claimed by the president,” the motion said.

The strongly worded motion reflected the divisions within Mr. Trump’s senior leadership team that played out largely behind closed doors for much of the year but have begun spilling out this fall during the House inquiry.

Even as some of the president’s advisers tried to help him extract help from Ukraine for his domestic political battles, others warned that it was an inappropriate abuse of his position. Mr. Mulvaney, occupying the southwest corner office in the West Wing, and Mr. Bolton, in the northwest corner office just down the hall, butted heads over the matter. At one point, according to testimony, Mr. Bolton declared that he wanted no part of the “drug deal” Mr. Mulvaney was cooking up, as the then national security adviser characterized the pressure campaign."
Trinity
Posts: 3513
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:14 am

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by Trinity »

We don’t need Bolton. Frig him. And Blurt Mulvaney clearly waived his privilege claim at his confessional press conference. Frig him too. Scrimmages are over. Laura Cooper transcript from the Pentagon raised the stakes. Trump and his personal needs threaten our National security. Period. I understand the pizza rebellion by Gaetz et al.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
foreverlax
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:21 pm

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by foreverlax »

Trump can’t communicated a clear thought, but he has MASTERED the art of making his point through his word salad speech patterns.

The Rs can no longer cry foul over bad optics, they lost that right moons ago.

I'm still willing to bet a Trump will get indicted before a Clinton or either Biden.
Trinity
Posts: 3513
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:14 am

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by Trinity »

READ THE TRANSCRIPTS.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
jhu72
Posts: 14170
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by jhu72 »

Trinity wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:16 pm We don’t need Bolton. Frig him. And Blurt Mulvaney clearly waived his privilege claim at his confessional press conference. Frig him too. Scrimmages are over. Laura Cooper transcript from the Pentagon raised the stakes. Trump and his personal needs threaten our National security. Period. I understand the pizza rebellion by Gaetz et al.
I feel the same way about Bolton. Either be a patriot or be a toady, there is no middle ground. F**k him!
Image STAND AGAINST FASCISM
LandM
Posts: 661
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:51 am

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by LandM »

MD - I got a sigh and that we could all do better by no boxing gloves and no fists - in the last two pages you have had one flip off and two quasi f-bombs - do these three need to clean up their act and be civil so that, "we can all do better"? Gotta be fair.
Bandito
Posts: 1116
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:31 pm
Location: Hanging out with Elon Musk

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by Bandito »

foreverlax wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:35 pm Trump can’t communicated a clear thought, but he has MASTERED the art of making his point through his word salad speech patterns.

The Rs can no longer cry foul over bad optics, they lost that right moons ago.

I'm still willing to bet a Trump will get indicted before a Clinton or either Biden.
This is rich. Biden literally has Alzheimer’s. For his age, Trump is sharp. Works about 18-20 hours a day. Doesn’t drink booze. Not getting paid for making America great again.
Farfromgeneva is a sissy soy boy
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32943
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

LandM wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:40 pm MD - I got a sigh and that we could all do better by no boxing gloves and no fists - in the last two pages you have had one flip off and two quasi f-bombs - do these three need to clean up their act and be civil so that, "we can all do better"? Gotta be fair.
I have no respect for the guy and have not since 1984. I would flip him off no problem. He doesn’t deserve more. One of the most selfish human beings I have ever run across. You can salute him. I ain’t doin’ it. Nothing to do with politics. He has no basic human decency.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32943
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Bandito wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:43 pm
foreverlax wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:35 pm Trump can’t communicated a clear thought, but he has MASTERED the art of making his point through his word salad speech patterns.

The Rs can no longer cry foul over bad optics, they lost that right moons ago.

I'm still willing to bet a Trump will get indicted before a Clinton or either Biden.
This is rich. Biden literally has Alzheimer’s. For his age, Trump is sharp. Works about 18-20 hours a day. Doesn’t drink booze. Not getting paid for making America great again.
Trump is lazy. Watches more tv than anything else.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
LandM
Posts: 661
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:51 am

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by LandM »

TLD - me thinks I did a fly-over - it is interesting that MD did not like the gloves but f-bombs and flipping someone off is ok. If you are coaching the next generation your attitude of flipping off the President is not cool iMHO. There are other ways of showing displeasure besides the bird. Glad my kid will never play for you - must be good to be in that elite class, you running now for public office?
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32943
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

LandM wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:55 pm TLD - me thinks I did a fly-over - it is interesting that MD did not like the gloves but f-bombs and flipping someone off is ok. If you are coaching the next generation your attitude of flipping off the President is not cool iMHO. There are other ways of showing displeasure besides the bird. Glad my kid will never play for you - must be good to be in that elite class, you running now for public office?
Trump is the exception for me. He has no respect for anybody or anything. He has no respect for the office or much of what this country was build on or stands for. We as Americans can flip off the POTUS if we want to. It makes us Americans. You can salute him. I ain’t doin’ it..... take some time to read the findings of the Mueller investigation.... that’s your guy. He cares only about 1 thing....DJT....
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
a fan
Posts: 18556
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by a fan »

LandM wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:44 pm Sea,
Yep - looked at a few months - realized it was not gonna be a benefit and moved on. So we have ACA and looking for something else of relevance. Time is precious - no need to waste on details - what is the summary - you do not have one but hatred for the man - good luck with that.
You lost me. So you just told us that you looked for yourself, and can't find a single bill that Trump has passed that's of relevance to the common man.....

...and upon learning this, you conclude we must be Trump haters.

What?
a fan
Posts: 18556
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by a fan »

LandM wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:12 am aFan, I never read the critiques of Obama - I do not have the same history out here as you do. Objectively many people out here lambaste the guy over and over and all the conspiracy theories to date have come up empty and I will admit that it was great to see Avenatti's fall from grace - lots people look pretty silly over that and the last three years of one after another - at some point you all are gonna wind up running out of points - there is an election :lol: - I know redundant :D
I'm at a complete loss as to what it is you think we're supposed to do here in America.

Essentially what you're saying here is: Vote. And then shut up for four years and don't critique what our leaders are doing. Then vote again. And then shut up for four years and don't critique what our leaders are doing Then vote again.

This is your advice for American Civics? And you're serious about this?
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 26412
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

LandM wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:55 pm TLD - me thinks I did a fly-over - it is interesting that MD did not like the gloves but f-bombs and flipping someone off is ok. If you are coaching the next generation your attitude of flipping off the President is not cool iMHO. There are other ways of showing displeasure besides the bird. Glad my kid will never play for you - must be good to be in that elite class, you running now for public office?
LandM,
I just returned to the thread; not sure why you are addressing me re F-bombs, quasi or other, nor 'flipping someone off'?...I'm not a fan of any of the above.

I'll defend your right of free speech, but that doesn't mean that I like those expressions as the best way to communicate distaste. Even very, very serious distaste.

On the other hand, I do understand folks wanting to be clear how strongly they feel what they feel. a little profanity sometimes gets the point across.

Let's just not aim this stuff at each other please.

I have no idea what you are referring to re 'gloves'.

BTW, I'm certainly no prig in terms of language on the field, on the court, up close and personal. I've a pretty foul mouth in those situations. Part of the game.

But in these sorts of forums and in general life, seems to me that such can be counterproductive to actual civil discourse.
a fan
Posts: 18556
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:57 pm The willfull obtuseness is mind numbing, not being able to distinguish between a massive offensive operation -- like invading Iraq, toppling a regime, occupation & nation building, requiring > 100k troops for years, as opposed to Trump's winding down operation of finishing off IS in their last redoubts with 700 troops.
Every. Single. Time. I try and discuss strategy, you immediately move into how the tactics have changed. I get it. We use drones. I get it, Saddam is now gone. I get it, lighter footprint.

That has nothing to do with the fact that our strategy has not changed. We're still playing cop to the world. Same deal for the last 50+ years.
old salt wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:57 pm You now freak out when we rotate a fighter squadron into Saudi Arabia for a limited deployment, to cover an aircraft carrier gap, as -- OMG, Trump's increasing our troops in the ME.
I freak, as you so artfully put it, because this tells me that your evaluation of Trump's strategy---getting out of the ME----was incorrect. We're not getting out. All we're doing is changing our tactics. And you can hold your breath until you're blue in the face, but the fact is, our strategy has not changed.

So yep, lighter footprint. More drones. I get that. But the political and military reasons we are there Have. Not. Changed.

And this strategy is what I take issue with.....if you don't understand why after all these years, no amount of typing will help you see it.

old salt wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:57 pm ...& again, I never confirmed that we were sending tanks into Syria.
Yeah, but our Sec of Defense did. You acted like I was quoting Greenwald, or something.
old salt wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:57 pm Your definition of pulling out of the ME is no US forces in the region.
Uhhh. Now how am I supposed to respond to this gem?

Yes. That is my definition of pulling our troops out of the ME...actually pulling them all out. There is no other definition. Sorry.

What you are describing, obviously, is "staying in the ME with a lighter footprint". This means, of course, "a lighter footprint until a heavier footprint is needed".
old salt wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:57 pm You fail to distinguish between when our forces are in combat & at risk, as opposed to being a forward presence, maintaing stability & keeping critical sea lanes open, working with allies to do all of that.
Yet another point where you need to pick a lane.

Both you and tech were saying the Iran Nuke deal was bad, and that we can't know where they are in their program cycle. The Saudis are feuding with Iran, correct? So then how the heck aren't these new troops in Saudi Arabia not in a risky place?
old salt wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:57 pm You should be grateful that we are accomplishing so much, with so few forces at risk, taking fewer casualties than we suffer in "peacetime" training & readiness ops.
I disagree with this assessment, and you know that. You're pointing at a segment intime when things are quiet. So unless you want to claim we're in permanent peace mode over there, things will eventually sour, as they always do.

I want them out of there BEFORE things go south. And they ALWAYS go south. Things like, oh, I don't know, Iran gets nuclear weapons. Or a revolution in yet another country.
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 18048
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:18 pm
old salt wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:57 pm The willfull obtuseness is mind numbing, not being able to distinguish between a massive offensive operation -- like invading Iraq, toppling a regime, occupation & nation building, requiring > 100k troops for years, as opposed to Trump's winding down operation of finishing off IS in their last redoubts with 700 troops.
Every. Single. Time. I try and discuss strategy, you immediately move into how the tactics have changed. I get it. We use drones. I get it, Saddam is now gone. I get it, lighter footprint.

That has nothing to do with the fact that our strategy has not changed. We're still playing cop to the world. Same deal for the last 50+ years.
old salt wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:57 pm You now freak out when we rotate a fighter squadron into Saudi Arabia for a limited deployment, to cover an aircraft carrier gap, as -- OMG, Trump's increasing our troops in the ME.
I freak, as you so artfully put it, because this tells me that your evaluation of Trump's strategy---getting out of the ME----was incorrect. We're not getting out. All we're doing is changing our tactics. And you can hold your breath until you're blue in the face, but the fact is, our strategy has not changed.

So yep, lighter footprint. More drones. I get that. But the political and military reasons we are there Have. Not. Changed.

And this strategy is what I take issue with.....if you don't understand why after all these years, no amount of typing will help you see it.

old salt wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:57 pm ...& again, I never confirmed that we were sending tanks into Syria.
Yeah, but our Sec of Defense did. You acted like I was quoting Greenwald, or something.
old salt wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:57 pm Your definition of pulling out of the ME is no US forces in the region.
Uhhh. Now how am I supposed to respond to this gem?

Yes. That is my definition of pulling our troops out of the ME...actually pulling them all out. There is no other definition. Sorry.

What you are describing, obviously, is "staying in the ME with a lighter footprint". This means, of course, "a lighter footprint until a heavier footprint is needed".
old salt wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:57 pm You fail to distinguish between when our forces are in combat & at risk, as opposed to being a forward presence, maintaing stability & keeping critical sea lanes open, working with allies to do all of that.
Yet another point where you need to pick a lane.

Both you and tech were saying the Iran Nuke deal was bad, and that we can't know where they are in their program cycle. The Saudis are feuding with Iran, correct? So then how the heck aren't these new troops in Saudi Arabia not in a risky place?
old salt wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:57 pm You should be grateful that we are accomplishing so much, with so few forces at risk, taking fewer casualties than we suffer in "peacetime" training & readiness ops.
I disagree with this assessment, and you know that. You're pointing at a segment intime when things are quiet. So unless you want to claim we're in permanent peace mode over there, things will eventually sour, as they always do.

I want them out of there BEFORE things go south. And they ALWAYS go south. Things like, oh, I don't know, Iran gets nuclear weapons. Or a revolution in yet another country.
Good grief. Our strategy until 2008, was to invade, topple regimes, occupy, nation build, institute democracy, form alliances, build bases & stay indefinitely. Our goal was to conquer & build Iraq into the Germany or Japan of the ME. Shock & awe. Conventional military ops, requiring hundreds of thousands of forces. It failed & devolved into an insurgency which required a counter-insurgency strategy which finally succeeded but required a surge of forces.

In 2009, our strategy changed to get out, totally, asap, & hope that things hold together for 8 years. They didn't. It only took ISIS 4 years to reconstitute & conquer much of Syria & Iraq. Our strategy was to do as little as possible, so long as Baghdad didn't fall & run out the clock until 2017.

In 2017, we returned to the offense using the strategy of by-with- & through our proxy allies -- the ISF & SDF.
Using minimal US forces as advisers & enablers, with overwhelming air support, unleashed ROE & unprecedented ISR, intel fusion, & Special Ops raids.
Our strategy is to support & empower our proxy allies with the goal of getting out asap & not having to pick up the tab for reconstruction.

Apparently your version of Isolationism is no US forces operating beyond US soil & airspace & downsizing our Navy to a Coast Guard patrolling our territorial waters.
My version of Isolationism is a bit more "nuanced" & not as drastic.
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 18048
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by old salt »

In his testimony, LTC Vindmann thought the Javelins were sent to Ukraine by the Obama Admin.
He also said he's the NSC's expert on Ukraine.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... an-problem
"There was a prior shipment of Javelins to Ukraine, wasn't there?" said Schiff.

"So that was, I believe — I apologize if the timing is incorrect — under the previous administration, there was a — I'm aware of the transfer of a fairly significant number of Javelins, yes," Vindman said.

Vindman's timing was incorrect. Part of the entire Trump-Ukraine story is the fact that Trump sent the missiles while Obama did not. The top Ukraine expert on the National Security Council did not seem to know that.
Politico undermines it's own reporting on Ukraine's 2016 election meddling.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... ry-efforts
a fan
Posts: 18556
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:44 pm Good grief. Our strategy until 2008, was to invade, topple regimes, occupy, nation build, institute democracy, form alliances, build bases & stay indefinitely. Our goal was to conquer & build Iraq into the Germany or Japan of the ME. Shock & awe. Conventional military ops, requiring hundreds of thousands of forces. It failed & devolved into an insurgency which required a counter-insurgency strategy which finally succeeded but required a surge of forces.

In 2009, our strategy changed to get out, totally, asap, & hope that things hold together for 8 years. They didn't. It only took ISIS 4 years to reconstitute & conquer much of Syria & Iraq. Our strategy was to do as little as possible, so long as Baghdad didn't fall & run out the clock until 2017.

In 2017, we returned to the offense using the strategy of by-with- & through our proxy allies -- the ISF & SDF.
Using minimal US forces as advisers & enablers, with overwhelming air support, unleashed ROE & unprecedented ISR, intel fusion, & Special Ops raids.
Our strategy is to support & empower our proxy allies with the goal of getting out asap & not having to pick up the tab for reconstruction.
No. Those are tactics.

Our strategy in the ME since the oil crisis is to keep the Middle East stable enough to keep oil flowing using any means deemed necessary. Money. "Arm the 'right' guys". Training. Invasion. Drones. Whatever works.

The opposite of this strategy is to not care about oil or stability in the ME. Using that strategy, what are the tactics? That's right. Close all ME bases and bring our people home. Keep our money. Keep our arms.

So as I keep saying: the strategy has not changed.


old salt wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:44 pm Apparently your version of Isolationism is no US forces operating beyond US soil & airspace & downsizing our Navy to a Coast Guard patrolling our territorial waters.
My version of Isolationism is a bit more "nuanced" & not as drastic.
Nope. My version of isolationism pertains to our treaty-bound allies. Well, except Turkey, who If I were in charge, would be laughed out of NATO for literally defeating the entire purpose of NATO.

So that means: do we have a treaty, ratified by our Congress with a given nation? If the answer is no----no troops, no military aid, no arms. Now picture all those bases/troops/money coming home. That's my version of isolationism. If some country is sooooo freaking important....it should be easy to get Congress to sign up for a treaty with them, no?
LandM
Posts: 661
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:51 am

Re: IMPEACHMENT ... Bribery, Extortion and Abuse of Power

Post by LandM »

aFan,
Fly-over again - never once said do not Impeach him, that is a right the people should have. What I have said is there is NOT the votes in the Senate to convict - if the top three Dems would have taken the time to discuss and compromise with the Senate could have been a possible different outcome. Instead the ram rod job by Schiff in combination with everyone and who are mostly career diplomats looks like piling on. Where is that WB who started all of this - it would be interesting to hear from him/her. What is next a call from the Mexican President? Every politician and their mother has been messing around in Ukraine - I say we have tea and go after all of them and we could use the tax savings to do your favorite thing - reduce the deficit.
Post Reply

Return to “POLITICS”