Conservative Ideology: A Big Lie

[cradleandshoot]

Well said cradle. I often think when we read posts, I (we) tend to insert a perceived voice of that person, which can take on a persona/caricature of its own; which is not a good thing.

I believe the push back OS often receives, is a form of respect by the haters. An eristic stance, to further the conversation by drawing intel. I really enjoy the conversations between OS and Afan.

I enjoy their back and forth as well. I don't know OS from Adam. I do know when i lost my beloved dog Tugger and i was hurting really bad he offered me the opportunity to adopt one of the dogs he was fostering. I wasn't ready then but his offer meant the world to me at the time. Anyone who devotes their spare time fostering dogs and finding them new homes is a hero in my eyes. That is the sign of an unselfish person doing good for all of Gods creatures. OS could have retired and played golf and enjoyed his retirement years. He chose to spend countless hours dedicated to finding these dogs good homes. We need more people like OS and less of the petty, arrogant and obnoxious people that dedicate themselves to ridiculing him endlessly for no reason other than they disagree with his politics. Maybe SOME of the people on this forum should try and take the time to understand the good and not accentuate what they believe to be the bad. That might be a new concept for most of them. I know Roxy would like him as well, that is good enough for me.

[MDlaxfan76]

Being kind to animals is indeed a good character signal.

[cradleandshoot]

Being kind to animals is indeed a good character signal.

I've always believed that to be true. My wife and I have strongly considered fostering dogs. I have a weakness that makes that very difficult for me.. it takes me 5 minutes to get very attached to almost any dog.

[MDlaxfan76]

Being kind to animals is indeed a good character signal.

I've always believed that to be true. My wife and I have strongly considered fostering dogs. I have a weakness that makes that very difficult for me.. it takes me 5 minutes to get very attached to almost any dog.

my wife has wanted us to do service dogs...same problem for me, I can't imagine giving up the pup!
We may eventually do it, though.

[old salt]

Who remembers at whose feet Old Soviet USED to worship?

Ex-CIA Director Says Today’s GOP Is Most Dangerous Political Force He’s Ever Seen

..

So you can't make a point without insulting OS in the process. Thank you Dis for proving my point about the hate filled anger and rage displayed towards a decorated and dedicated naval officer who gave more to his country than a whiney pipsqueak like you ever even thought about giving. You should be ashamed of yourself but showing respect towards OS even when you disagree with him ain't in your wheelhouse is it??? No need to worry Dis, you have plenty of company on this forum when it comes to angry, disrespectful and intolerant butt wipes.

Let’s see if OS shows up and agrees with General Hayden, shall we, Cranky?

He told us Hunter's laptop was Russian disinformation.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/w ... n-pundits/

No. He didn't. You're lying. Intentionally.


And before I let you start playing your stupid game for the 1000th time, whats the point of your citation? Because if I dare assume that you even agree with the main point of the citation, you're going to yell at me for putting words in your mouth.

https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/29/ha ... formation/

Yeah, that's not the letter. What did the letter say, OS? Gonna pretend you don't know?

And that's also not a quote from Hayden. That's the Hayden Center.

Try again?

You KNOW what the letter said. And the letter, of course, is 1000% accurate. At no point is the letter wrong. But neither you nor the Federalist care.

Right. It was a nonpartisan observation, issued to put the public's mind at ease, just before an election. No intent to influence voters.

It was 1000% an attempt to influence voters! Of course it was! It's the honest people in our Government calling BS on TeamTrump, which in this case, is Rudy Giuliani. You want to keep siding with Trump, and act like the real, normal people in our government are the enemy.

It's flat out nuts what Trump's arrival has done to your compass, OS>

Next time? Don't give the laptop to Rudy. Yet another fake problem solved.

I think it's just FANTASTIC that you're pretending like it makes perfect sense that this idiot gave the laptop to Rudy G. And that you're pretending that you're too stupid to understand that you can't trust one word on that laptop now that Giuliani----of all the corrupt idiots in the world----had it in his possession.

You would have LOST YOUR MIND if Kush or Trump's laptop fell into Hillary's hands, just months before the election.

...the laptop (the original) was in the hands of the FBI months before Rudy had a copy of the hard disk.

The critical emails have been corroborated by other addressees in the email chain.

Sure, Rudy & his Russian colluders dummied up all that stuff.

Why not wait for the investigation to be completed when all the facts are in? You know, like you suggested with the Mar el Lago case.

An Old Fool.

But chain of custody. Those corrupt FBI clearly tampered with the laptop before Rudy got a hold of the hard drive. Obviously. Duh!!! Gotta use that third eye!

Rudy got a downloaded copy of the hard drive from the computer guy. The FBI got the original laptop well before Rudy got anything.

The chain of custody I asked about was for the classified documents at Mar a Lago. Chain of custody starts from the time a classified document comes out of the printer. Every classifed document has a "custodian". The chain of custody to which I was referring to was from the time the documents came out of the printer until the time they were seized at Mar a Lago. In other words -- how did they end up there ?
I made no inference that the FBI planted the documents.

[old salt]

Uncle Cranky wonders why my posts about Old Soviet's trolling support of hard right political positions sometimes gets tinged with a tone of contempt. OS was a YUGE fan of Hayden's when he was all about warrantless wiretapping and torture as US policy. Now, the General criticizes Donald Trump as a contemptible, dangerous human being and OS points us to a hard-right pundit whining about how ex-NSA/CIA types should just STFU about their thoughts on said Moron.

It is BECAUSE more people don't speak up and ACT on this information that the republican party and the right, politically speaking, has totally gone off the cliff, following this Moron into the abyss.

Reap the Whirlwind indeed

I supported it when used to thwart foreign terrorists, not for domestic political purposes. Who was Trump wiretapping & waterboarding ?

Gen Hayden was highly regarded when he was NSA Director. As he rose further, he became more political.
Since leaving the service, he has become as outspoken & as partisan as Mike Flynn, & just as big of a self-promoter.

[old salt]

Perhaps 10% is the undercurrent of various bigotries that sometimes creep in to his posts, but fortunately for reasonable discourse, those aren't rampant or often flagrant...they just come into play some of the time. Unfortunately, they are difficult to shake once revealed.

... " various ...once revealed " ? Specifics plz.

[MDlaxfan76]

Perhaps 10% is the undercurrent of various bigotries that sometimes creep in to his posts, but fortunately for reasonable discourse, those aren't rampant or often flagrant...they just come into play some of the time. Unfortunately, they are difficult to shake once revealed.

... " various ...once revealed " ? Specifics plz.

We have been down this rabbit hole before and while I’d prefer not to do so again, I understand why you’d wish to challenge that statement (again).

Almost no one, certainly no decent person, likes to have their bigotries challenged, or even just noted. Yet we all have some such.

We have discussed “statues” and related matters around race, we have quite different understanding of the meaning and history of ‘nationalism’,especially as it is code for international hard right fascist ideology today, and the “war of civilizations” as code for religious bigotry. And such.

Others have had other exchanges with you.

Some of these sorts of discussions have been reasoned and respectful, but at times you have been criticized sharply by various posters when you have been quite dismissive.

You will probably recall “mask slipped long ago”.

[MDlaxfan76]

Uncle Cranky wonders why my posts about Old Soviet's trolling support of hard right political positions sometimes gets tinged with a tone of contempt. OS was a YUGE fan of Hayden's when he was all about warrantless wiretapping and torture as US policy. Now, the General criticizes Donald Trump as a contemptible, dangerous human being and OS points us to a hard-right pundit whining about how ex-NSA/CIA types should just STFU about their thoughts on said Moron.

It is BECAUSE more people don't speak up and ACT on this information that the republican party and the right, politically speaking, has totally gone off the cliff, following this Moron into the abyss.

Reap the Whirlwind indeed

I supported it when used to thwart foreign terrorists, not for domestic political purposes. Who was Trump wiretapping & waterboarding ?

Gen Hayden was highly regarded when he was NSA Director. As he rose further, he became more political.
Since leaving the service, he has become as outspoken & as partisan as Mike Flynn, & just as big of a self-promoter.

Well that is quite the accusation, given how disgusting and dishonest a whack job Flynn has become.

[dislaxxic]

Well that is quite the accusation, given how disgusting and dishonest a whack job Flynn has become.

It's just too stinkin' hard to say "General Hayden is right, today's republican party is dangerous.

“I’ve covered extremism and violent ideologies around the world over my career. Have never come across a political force more nihilistic, dangerous and contemptible than today’s Republicans. Nothing close,” Luce wrote in the tweet.

“I agree,” Hayden wrote in response to the tweet. “And I was the CIA Director.”

..

[kramerica.inc]

The Republican party is only "dangerous" to the left, who desires this country to be Greece.

[dislaxxic]

Someone is just not paying attention...

..

[Farfromgeneva]

Uncle Cranky wonders why my posts about Old Soviet's trolling support of hard right political positions sometimes gets tinged with a tone of contempt. OS was a YUGE fan of Hayden's when he was all about warrantless wiretapping and torture as US policy. Now, the General criticizes Donald Trump as a contemptible, dangerous human being and OS points us to a hard-right pundit whining about how ex-NSA/CIA types should just STFU about their thoughts on said Moron.

It is BECAUSE more people don't speak up and ACT on this information that the republican party and the right, politically speaking, has totally gone off the cliff, following this Moron into the abyss.

Reap the Whirlwind indeed

I supported it when used to thwart foreign terrorists, not for domestic political purposes. Who was Trump wiretapping & waterboarding ?

Gen Hayden was highly regarded when he was NSA Director. As he rose further, he became more political.
Since leaving the service, he has become as outspoken & as partisan as Mike Flynn, & just as big of a self-promoter.

So then what people do after their service matter? Cradle doesn’t think so.

[a fan]

The Republican party is only "dangerous" to the left, who desires this country to be Greece.

Kram....come on. You REALLY don't understand what your team has been doing?

Of the two parties---which party wants to raise taxes?

You've already agreed that this is true: your party is using the Federal Credit Card to send money to Republican States that don't (and can't) want to fend for themselves. THAT is Greece, Kram.

Spending isn't the problem, Kram.

Quick quiz: relative to GDP and prior to Covid, was Federal spending higher or lower under Obama's second term and Trump's pre-Covid that it was under Ronald Reagan.

You know the answer.

So what's the REAL problem? The REAL problem is that your team is behaving like spoiled teenagers who want Daddy to pay for everything they get. So what did you do? You cut taxes so deeply that our effective Income and Corporate Tax rates are half of what they were under Clinton.

Change that one single factor? America is flush with cash, Kram.

It's YOUR team that's doing this. If your party had behaved like it did when your parents were in their 30's over the last 20 years? We'd be running a surplus this very day. No one to blame for this but Republicans.

What was the biggest bill that your Party passed in Trump's four years, Kram? That's right: Fat tax cuts for the 1%ers and their corporate overlords. And yet you're here trying to tell us that the American left---that has ZERO power----is trying to make us Greece.

You know better than to make such a bass-akwards claim.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Uncle Cranky wonders why my posts about Old Soviet's trolling support of hard right political positions sometimes gets tinged with a tone of contempt. OS was a YUGE fan of Hayden's when he was all about warrantless wiretapping and torture as US policy. Now, the General criticizes Donald Trump as a contemptible, dangerous human being and OS points us to a hard-right pundit whining about how ex-NSA/CIA types should just STFU about their thoughts on said Moron.

It is BECAUSE more people don't speak up and ACT on this information that the republican party and the right, politically speaking, has totally gone off the cliff, following this Moron into the abyss.

Reap the Whirlwind indeed

I supported it when used to thwart foreign terrorists, not for domestic political purposes. Who was Trump wiretapping & waterboarding ?

Gen Hayden was highly regarded when he was NSA Director. As he rose further, he became more political.
Since leaving the service, he has become as outspoken & as partisan as Mike Flynn, & just as big of a self-promoter.

So then what people do after their service matter? Cradle doesn’t think so.

"...as partisan as Mike Flynn..."

Right, sure. General Hayden hawking q-Anon cups, caps and t-shirts? Appearing on weird channels and strange youtube performances? Lying to the FBI, hiring the Kraken? Thanks for your long ago service.

[Seacoaster(1)]

The Republican party is only "dangerous" to the left, who desires this country to be Greece.

Bad weekend with the in-laws? Hungover?

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/23/politics ... index.html

Only the best “people”.

[a fan]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/23/politics ... index.html

Only the best “people”.

From the piece: Economists expect that employers will pass along a portion of the corporate tax to workers in the form of lower wages.

What utter nonsense. In what world does the tax you pay on cash flow effect what you pay your employees?

Two questions for anyone who buys this cr*p: 1. what do you think the effective corporate tax rate was in the 1950's?
2. and what were the salaries of American workers, correcting for inflation, back in the 50's? The answer is: they were just fine.

We have a whole swath of Americans who are convinced that you cannot tax rich Americans without making America catch fire. This is all just so stupid. I can't believe ANYONE is dumb enough to buy this stupidity.

As a business? Taxing my profits would have ZERO effect on my ability to pay my employees well. Zippo. Zilch.

This is right wing 1%er nonsense designed to convince Americans that if you tax Multinational corporations one cent, their CEO takes a dog down to the river, and drowns it. Idiocy. How the F did we get THIS stupid?

[PizzaSnake]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/23/politics ... index.html

Only the best “people”.

From the piece: Economists expect that employers will pass along a portion of the corporate tax to workers in the form of lower wages.

What utter nonsense. In what world does the tax you pay on cash flow effect what you pay your employees?

Two questions for anyone who buys this cr*p: 1. what do you think the effective corporate tax rate was in the 1950's?
2. and what were the salaries of American workers, correcting for inflation, back in the 50's? The answer is: they were just fine.

We have a whole swath of Americans who are convinced that you cannot tax rich Americans without making America catch fire. This is all just so stupid. I can't believe ANYONE is dumb enough to buy this stupidity.

As a business? Taxing my profits would have ZERO effect on my ability to pay my employees well. Zippo. Zilch.

This is right wing 1%er nonsense designed to convince Americans that if you tax Multinational corporations one cent, their CEO takes a dog down to the river, and drowns it. Idiocy. How the F did we get THIS stupid?

Religious home-schooling?

[Seacoaster(1)]

"I can't believe ANYONE is dumb enough to buy this stupidity."

I really think you need to revise your opinion of Americans. At least 40 or 50 million of them appear to be clinical-morons.

We got this stupid by a complete failure of civics education, among other things.